GP3 to be unvieled at ECTS

From the ECTS Show Preview "Hasbro Prix Up Hasbro Interactive will be lifting the lid on it's hotly tipped Grand Prix 3 at this years ECTS... As well as Geoff Crammond's officially endorsed Formula One racing sim which will have its own challenge area featuring two full size racing cars, the company willalso be previewing...." I've got my ticket :) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Let me guess.. No multiplayer.. Need a 800MHz CPU and Voodoo4 to run it..cause it is made for the future..HAHA and it will still run like crap. Remember what they said? Does GP2 look like the future? And there will be ZERO patches..addons..or fixes for it. Just like GP2

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> From the ECTS Show Preview > "Hasbro Prix Up > Hasbro Interactive will be lifting the lid on it's hotly tipped Grand > Prix 3 at this years ECTS... > As well as Geoff Crammond's officially endorsed Formula One racing sim > which will have its own challenge area featuring two full size racing > cars, the company willalso be previewing...." > I've got my ticket :) > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

And ECTS will be full of bored industry types and punters masquerading as industry types... Just like every year. M

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> Let me guess.... > You have no Brain.. > Because > 1) Gp2 has Multiplayer. > 2) Gp2 ran on 486's. > 3) Gp2 wasnt finished therfore optimised. > 4) Gp2 ran fine in hi-res on my p100 with the right graphic options. > 5) Gp2 still has better gameplay than all racing games bar GPL. > 6) You like patches and fixes? What if nothings really broken? > 7) I can spot them from a mile away. > Quite simply without Papy ever intending to do formula one its a ***y god > send that a ledgend like Geoff is going to give us another brilliant game. > If you dont like Gp2 why dont you***off and stare at a brick wall or do > the equilivant play any other modern formula one simulator. > -ilmore > P.S. If you have any difficulty in accepting my superior intelligence then > feel free to respond.

You wouldn't happen to be a member of the DNRC(*), by any chance? ;-) [ * Dogbert's New Ruling Class, see [link lost in import] for details]

:>Need a 800MHz CPU and Voodoo4 to run it..cause it is made for the :>future..HAHA and it will still run like crap. Remember what they said? Does :>GP2 look like the future? Actually, GP2 does look like the future, as viewed from 1996. Transluscent smoke, spectral highlighting etc. With the first 3D cards hitting the market in 1997, Crammond had to do it in software. GP2 still has the best looking poly models for a modern Formula One, and it accomplishes this with a low poly count (ok, the bitmap wheels are a bit odd). :>And there will be ZERO patches..addons..or fixes for it. :>Just like GP2 What do you want patched? The game runs well out of the box. It has the features it promised, and they work. The internet community has provided additional features that Microprose didn't, but this isn't bug fixing - it's enhancement. Stephen

> :>Need a 800MHz CPU and Voodoo4 to run it..cause it is made for the > :>future..HAHA and it will still run like crap. Remember what they said? Does > :>GP2 look like the future? > Actually, GP2 does look like the future, as viewed from 1996. > Transluscent smoke, spectral highlighting etc. With the first 3D cards > hitting the market in 1997, Crammond had to do it in software. GP2 still > has the best looking poly models for a modern Formula One, and it > accomplishes this with a low poly count (ok, the bitmap wheels are a bit > odd). I agree. Nothing has come close to the cars in GP2 in term of graphic realism. They look so damn good in motion as well. If the rest of the graphics in GP3 look as good as the GP2 cars (with some filtering perhspa) then GP3 will be stunning. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

And another thing?? You think that it a good sign when companies make you spnd hours on the net trying to download some huge page which just screws up a game with a huge number of bugs to begin with? Where are you from?

Oh know, what ever will we do if Geoff makes a replica of what was and still is the GREATEST and longest lived sim EVER!!!! Any don't bother replying say GPL is! I'm not in the mood to start that again!

Tough! GPL is.

I've never downloaded a huge page in my life. Would that be broadsheet or tabloid format?

Well, because GP3 will feature hardware graphics acceleration, the sim _should_ run faster and smoother than GP2 did. And if GP3 features TCP/IP support, you know that's just another big reason for me to buy it. ;) Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited

> No multiplayer.. GP2 has multiplayer, you can race the AI, or race another person via modem or serial link (very slow though) or via ipx link, via a patch, yes there have been patches, just not from the publishers!) Or you can have more than one driver selected. Have you actually ever driven GP2? Well I first drove GP2 on a 486 dx4 100Mhz pc, with 16Mb ram and 1Mb graphics card. Yes it did run, and in vga mode it ran quite fast too! Like I said. Have you actually ever driven GP2? prior to GPL it was *THE* racing simulator, and IMHO still beats all other driving programs except GPL (F1RS comes a close second only cos it has better graphics). Run GP2 on a fast modern pc (I run it on a BX m/b with a Celeron 300 clocked at 450 with 128Mb ram and an 8Mb Matrox G100) and it absolutely flies along nicely, in fact it seems to get better with age? Remember that it was Microproses decision to not release any patches, fixes, etc. But then again, what needed fixing? Sure it could have had weather, etc added, but it was rushed out by the makers and the developer (GC) was not really given the opportunity to optimise the program to its full potential. Third party developers and programmers have however, released loads of stuff for GP2, just browse the web and you can find new graghics, names, tracks, editors, etc, all you could ever need. Have you bothered looking? Hmmm, do we want to go through this particular thread *again*? Imformed opinion, let me know when you find one.... 8-) *Peter* 8-)

GP2 was a brilliant sim in its day, unfortunately that ended about a year ago, GPL is the present. Live in the now !! :) BTW if anyone with any influence is reading this, can we have an online *** system like GPL for GP3. ie. join any time during practice and have chat that we can use while inside the game. -- Ian Parker UKGPL League [link lost in import] --

> GP2 was a brilliant sim in its day, unfortunately that ended about a year > ago, GPL is the present. Live in the now !! :) Well that's pretty ironic - I thought we were living in the '60s with GPL! ;-)

haha, I knew someone would:-)

Oh well, excuse my spelling , PATCH not page. <------- sarcasm:-)

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>I've never downloaded a huge page in my life. Would that be broadsheet or >tabloid format? >> And another thing?? >> You think that it a good sign when companies make you spnd hours on the >net >> trying to download some huge page which just screws up a game with a huge >> number of bugs to begin with? >> Where are you from?

Let's hope Geoff has looked at Papyrus' GPL physics model and provides us with a worthy challenger, I loved GP2 and played it pretty much as my driving sim of choice until the GPL demo came out, but I really hated those canned spins. Again here's hoping Geoff can give us a physics model worthy of competing with Papy (which is amazing already as is). Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva

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>From the ECTS Show Preview >"Hasbro Prix Up >Hasbro Interactive will be lifting the lid on it's hotly tipped Grand >Prix 3 at this years ECTS... >As well as Geoff Crammond's officially endorsed Formula One racing sim >which will have its own challenge area featuring two full size racing >cars, the company willalso be previewing...." >I've got my ticket :) >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I have to say that I was a HUGE GP2 fan too but you have to admit there was one particular issue that needed fixing especially, and that was those damned canned spins. Once your GP2 car started spinning there was no way to stop them except mashing the brakes which just slowed the spin, as soon as you let up on the brakes the spin started right back up as if you had not even stopped it. In reality there was no way to counter-steer the spin once it went past some preset point Geoff programmed into the physics model, almost like all of a sudden you were driving with a two ton rear wing that wanted to make your car swap ends. Other than that GP2 was brilliant, I'd love to have a GP3 with an awesome physics model that was up to par with Papy's GPL, then I could drive GPL for non-winged car e***ment and GP3 for winged car and modern F1, the best of both worlds. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva ( who always wondered why people can't appreciate two competing sims there's room enough in my sim world for both GPL and GP3)

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>Remember that it was Microproses decision to not release any patches, >fixes, etc. But then again, what needed fixing? Sure it could have had >weather, etc added, but it was rushed out by the makers and the >developer (GC) was not really given the opportunity to optimise the >program to its full potential. Third party developers and programmers >have however, released loads of stuff for GP2, just browse the web and >you can find new graghics, names, tracks, editors, etc, all you could >ever need. Have you bothered looking? >> Just like GP2 >Hmmm, do we want to go through this particular thread *again*? >Imformed opinion, let me know when you find one.... >8-) >*Peter* 8-)

Of course! :o) That's what you wanted.

:o) > Oh well, excuse my spelling , PATCH not page. <------- > sarcasm:-) > >I've never downloaded a huge page in my life. Would that be broadsheet or

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> >tabloid format? > >> And another thing?? > >> You think that it a good sign when companies make you spnd hours on the > >net > >> trying to download some huge page which just screws up a game with a

huge > >> number of bugs to begin with? > >> Where are you from?

Does that make the other guy an induhvidual? ;-) -- Ken's Sig 3.0 "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi Go #43 and #44! volksy (at) geocities (dot) com volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com >> Let me guess.... >> You have no Brain.. >> Because >> 1) Gp2 has Multiplayer. >> 2) Gp2 ran on 486's. >> 3) Gp2 wasnt finished therfore optimised. >> 4) Gp2 ran fine in hi-res on my p100 with the right graphic options. >> 5) Gp2 still has better gameplay than all racing games bar GPL. >> 6) You like patches and fixes? What if nothings really broken? >> 7) I can spot them from a mile away. >> Quite simply without Papy ever intending to do formula one its a ***y god >> send that a ledgend like Geoff is going to give us another brilliant game. >> If you dont like Gp2 why dont you***off and stare at a brick wall or do >> the equilivant play any other modern formula one simulator. >> -ilmore >> P.S. If you have any difficulty in accepting my superior intelligence then >> feel free to respond. >You wouldn't happen to be a member of the DNRC(*), by any chance? ;-) >[ * Dogbert's New Ruling Class, see [link lost in import] for details]

It was claimed to be playable on a 486 which is simply false advertisment. In fact it needs a P2 a system that came out about 2 years later to run well. Not true. It did not have the features promised - basic things like variable wheather, network mode and pitcrew communication have been left out due to time restrictions. Also it did have it's fair share of bugs as well, the weird timing anomalities depending on processor speed to name one. Just because Microprose were to lazy to actually support their product doesn't mean it didn't need it. --Tel

>Let's hope Geoff has looked at Papyrus' GPL physics model and provides >us with a worthy challenger, I loved GP2 and played it pretty much >as my driving sim of choice until the GPL demo came out, but I really hated >those canned spins. I think thats a very "small" gripe indeed. I really don't see any problem with the way the car spins at all. S'ppose you want to be able to steer the car backwards at high speed ? Whats the point really ? Most of us keep the car on the track, so the canned spins aren't that important .... ;-) Mind you, I hated the way the car left the track on GPL, so there ya go. Na, na, nana, na ...... :-) I just hope he keeps it at least as good as GP2. If he improves it, then thats a bonus. Most important point for me is that he keeps the ability for more than one player to be able to play on a single PC. I hope you're reading this Geoff ...... and why does no other car racing sim support this ? Cheers.....Ken

It suprises me how often I've heard people say GP2 has canned spins. They always felt quite natural to me. Just a natural, gradual progression of how the car is cornering. I think they actually feel quite similar to GPL. They happen more quickly and unexpectedly, of course, but I think that makes sense given the higher cornering speeds and stiffer suspension. Of course, a bad setup can give you some *** snap oversteer. Plus, the game has that great feature, "opposite lock help" which lets you really hang the rear-end out there if you feel like cheating. Coolest thing about GPL is all the different cars you can drive, I hope GP3 will have that. >>Let's hope Geoff has looked at Papyrus' GPL physics model and provides >>us with a worthy challenger, I loved GP2 and played it pretty much >>as my driving sim of choice until the GPL demo came out, but I really hated

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>>those canned spins. >I think thats a very "small" gripe indeed. I really don't see any >problem with the way the car spins at all. S'ppose you want to be >able to steer the car backwards at high speed ? Whats the point >really ? Most of us keep the car on the track, so the canned spins >aren't that important .... ;-) >Mind you, I hated the way the car left the track on GPL, so there ya >go. Na, na, nana, na ...... :-) >>Again here's hoping Geoff can give us a physics model worthy of >>competing with Papy (which is amazing already as is). >I just hope he keeps it at least as good as GP2. If he improves it, >then thats a bonus. Most important point for me is that he keeps the >ability for more than one player to be able to play on a single PC. >I hope you're reading this Geoff ...... >and why does no other car racing sim support this ? >Cheers.....Ken

: It was claimed to be playable on a 486 which is simply false : advertisment. In fact it needs a P2 a system that came out about 2 : years later to run well. It runs in VGA without textures on a 486DX2. Microprose is no more, nor no less guilty of ridiculous "minimum" and "recommended" requirements specs. Try running any curent flight sim on a mimimum spec machine. Try running Half-Life on the P133 that they claim will run it. :>What do you want patched? The game runs well out of the box. It has the :>features it promised, and they work. The internet community has provided :>additional features that Microprose didn't, but this isn't bug fixing - :>it's enhancement. : Not true. It did not have the features promised - basic things like : variable wheather, network mode and pitcrew communication have been : left out due to time restrictions. Also it did have it's fair share of : bugs as well, the weird timing anomalities depending on processor : speed to name one. Just because Microprose were to lazy to actually : support their product doesn't mean it didn't need it. Hmmmm. I don't see anything on the box that talks about variable weather. I also don't seem to see anything that mentions pit crew communications. These features were never promised, just hyped in R.A.S. Look into any code and you will find features that were never implemented due to time restraints. I will agree that the frame rate issue is a bug, only in that the program is too optimistic in recommending a frame rate. If the program actually did a good job of automatically selecting the frame rate, then I would consider this "bug" squashed. As it is, it is only a minor annoyance to drive around a few courses with the O-key pressed and set the framte rate. But other than that, what "bugs" are there? A bug is a program error, a show-stopper. Just because the original GP2 didn't ship with a VR helmet, Michael Schumacher's life story on Quicktime video, and lifetime upgrades of car textures for your 50 bucks, does not mean it was buggy. Stephen

Just have to chime in here in the interests of Historic accuracy, as a HUGE fan of GP1 (and of course GP2) as we awaited GP2, a few months before it's release Microprose issued an official Press Release on their website and sent to magazines that announced GP2's features and yes their own official Press Release did mention wet and variable weather as a feature, I remembe actually going to their website and seeing that on their press release. I loved GP2, and still think of it as a revolutionary sim at it's time, but the fault of those variable weather promises lies squarely on Microprose's shoulders. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva

Ken, I see your smileys but come on, you mean to tell me that you never spun in GP2 and noticed it's almost impossible to control the spins? although like you I was (and still am) a huge fan of GP2, I think it is very valid and even important for a fan to see it's slight shortcomings like GP2's canned spins, and just because I *also* love GPL doesn't mean that's why I bring up the GP2 canned spins, GP2 had amazing physics for it's time, I was amazed the first time I locked my brakes into a corner or bounced off a curb, it was a tremendous leap ahead from my previously favorite sim ICR2 :-) I used to bring that glitch up here on r.a.s. even back in the days when the biggest argument here was which sim was best GP2 or ICR2, and yes I was on the GP2 defense side in some of those flamfests until I learned some people will never give things a chance (or maybe I've still not learned :-) Personally I've never felt that to love one sim you have to put it's competition down or be blind to your favorite sim's faults, although I don't drive them mych anymore, yes I'm still a huge fan of NFS1, GP2, ICR2, even Nascar2 with the Pits Touring Car Patch. My current love of GPL will not keep me from being the first in line to buy GP3 when it comes out, there's plenty of room on my Hardrive for many more great sims like ICR2, GP2, GPL and GP3, and I hope sim designers will only keep reducing simulation shortcuts like GP2's canned spins or GPL's tightening steering ratio in hairpin turns, there's always some shortcuts needed when you create a simulation, but luckily as computer hardware has gotten more powerful, programmers are forced to use them less and less, I hope Geoff will be able to remove that one physics modeling shortcut in GP3. Can't all the good sims fans just get along :-) Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva (who is a fan of NFS1, ICR2, GP2, TPTCC, GPL etc. etc.)

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>>Let's hope Geoff has looked at Papyrus' GPL physics model and provides >>us with a worthy challenger, I loved GP2 and played it pretty much >>as my driving sim of choice until the GPL demo came out, but I really hated >>those canned spins. >I think thats a very "small" gripe indeed. I really don't see any >problem with the way the car spins at all. S'ppose you want to be >able to steer the car backwards at high speed ? Whats the point >really ? Most of us keep the car on the track, so the canned spins >aren't that important .... ;-) >Mind you, I hated the way the car left the track on GPL, so there ya >go. Na, na, nana, na ...... :-) >>Again here's hoping Geoff can give us a physics model worthy of >>competing with Papy (which is amazing already as is). >I just hope he keeps it at least as good as GP2. If he improves it, >then thats a bonus. Most important point for me is that he keeps the >ability for more than one player to be able to play on a single PC. >I hope you're reading this Geoff ...... >and why does no other car racing sim support this ? >Cheers.....Ken

Not at all. Turn down all the options and the framerate, and you have a playable game on a 486/66. Of course, since "playability" is not measurable, there can be some discussion. But I enjoyed it on my 486 for some time. Of course the unreachable SVGA pushed me towards buying a new system quite soon :-) Just remember that 25+ framerates were not as trivial back then as they are now with 3D cards. I remember F1GP running at 8fps on the Amiga (OK, that's a couple of years before), and we were satisfied with that! First you should make a distinction between rumours/very early adds/package text. The package text doesn't talk about weather or network play or pitcrew messages. Where's the promise? This is not a bug. It is a design choice, and admittedly a not very good one from various points of view. But NOT a bug. JoH Please remove *anti-spam* from the email when replying. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When everything else failed, we can still become im- mortal by making an enormous blunder.... John Kenneth Galbraith =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

But I've got a Papy time machine !! :) -- Ian Parker UKGPL League [link lost in import] -- > > GP2 was a brilliant sim in its day, unfortunately that ended about a year > > ago, GPL is the present. Live in the now !! :) > Well that's pretty ironic - I thought we were living in the '60s with > GPL! ;-)

I used to play it on a 486/25 :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

I still run GP in VGA on my PII 266mhz !! Yes that's true. I have all the graphics on, everything on in the mirrors (including the detail level of those mirror graphics). Always 25fps, and Processor Occupancy always near 60-75%. I love it, its smooth and it's the best darn VGA game I have ever played :) Just go back a couple of feet and it looks not that bad seriously. I always loved the gray tones of Gp2 and how the blocky graphics even in VGA looked slick and smooth. It wasn't Doom, it was a quality game in terms of graphics, even if no 3d acceleration (which did not exist simply back at that time). -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

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>> I used to play it on a 486/25 :-) >I still run GP in VGA on my PII 266mhz !! Yes that's true. I have all the >graphics on, everything on in the mirrors (including the detail level of >those mirror graphics). Always 25fps, and Processor Occupancy always near >60-75%. I love it, its smooth and it's the best darn VGA game I have ever >played :) >Just go back a couple of feet and it looks not that bad seriously.

Surely you don't have a 17" <G> I at least found it impossible to return to VGA after "tasting" the SVGA. Even when I still had my DX2, I enjoyed the beautiful GP2 SVGA slideshows from time to time. JoH Please remove *anti-spam* from the email when replying. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When everything else failed, we can still become im- mortal by making an enormous blunder.... John Kenneth Galbraith =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Worse, a 19" ;-) Actually, the trick is to not run the SVGA version of GP2, because yes you will be spoiled. But I don't care about SVGA, I hate slowdowns and Im perfectly happy with those VGA graphics. VGA maybe, but great VGA :) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I hope there will be zero patches just like GP2. Nothing broken... nothing to fix! -- Rob. >Let me guess.. >No multiplayer.. >Need a 800MHz CPU and Voodoo4 to run it..cause it is made for the >future..HAHA and it will still run like crap. Remember what they said? Does >GP2 look like the future? >And there will be ZERO patches..addons..or fixes for it. >Just like GP2 >> From the ECTS Show Preview >> "Hasbro Prix Up >> Hasbro Interactive will be lifting the lid on it's hotly tipped Grand >> Prix 3 at this years ECTS... ...

Actually I saw HL running on a P133 with a 6Mb Voodoo card and a pile of RAM and it wasn't as bad as I expected. 133 without a 3d card would be fearsome tho :P M

>Ken, I see your smileys but come on, you mean to tell me that you never spun in >GP2 and noticed it's almost impossible to control the spins? <snip> Remember those smilies now ........ Of course we can, and I agree with most of what you said. I also have room on my hard drive for ALL racing sims when they come out - and as for being the first to buy GP3 when it comes out, I thought it was gonna be me !!! :-) Cheers.....Ken

>>Ken, I see your smileys but come on, you mean to tell me that you never spun in >>GP2 and noticed it's almost impossible to control the spins? ><snip> Hmm, GP2 might have some sort of canned "spin", meaning it might do the same type of spin/wipeout, each time, after losing control. But, after driving GPL for a while, GP2 spins were unbelievably controllable. Matt -Teehole

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>>>Ken, I see your smileys but come on, you mean to tell me that you never spun >in >>>GP2 and noticed it's almost impossible to control the spins? >><snip> > Hmm, GP2 might have some sort of canned "spin", meaning it might do >the same type of spin/wipeout, each time, after losing control. > But, after driving GPL for a while, GP2 spins were unbelievably >controllable. > Matt >-Teehole

I always found that once you spun in GP2 that the car invariably ended up going backwards, and there was no way I could do anything to reverse its direction until it had come to a halt. With GPL however, if you press and hold the clutch button, this will allow you to control the spin much easier and then, if you time it correctly, as the car spins round to point in the correct direction, get the revs up, release the clutch and continue on your merry way. And while I think of it, here's a little tip that may help avoid getting in a spin in the first place in GPL. This generally works for me when I am exiting a corner too fast and know that there is no way to avoid putting a tyre in the dirt. What I've found is that if you straighten the car out before hitting the dirt, so that both the front and back tyres drift into it together, then you can pretty well keep going without losing too much speed. I can do this with a good enough regularity now that I hardly lose any time at all - half a second max - when this situation occurs. A good place to try this out is at Kyalami coming out of either Barbeque Bend or the followin Juksket Sweep, where I can't remember the last time that I've actually spun through those corners, or most corners at Silverstone. Hope someone finds this useful. -- Peter Ives