NR2003 TA Physics Flawed ?

I was just curious if anyone else here has noticed the tendency for the RF tyre to over-heat on the road circuits. It is possible to almost dial it out, using totally un-realistic suspension and tire pressure settings for any given situation, but the settings required to make the RF heat build-up not exceed what should be reasonably expected, is way past the bounds of reason, IMO. I am referring to the TA side of the physics engine, as I have not even bothered trying the standard NASCAR physics on the road courses at all. "Yes", I do know how to set up a car, <G>, but the RF heat build-up on the road circuits is not accurate and does not reflect the garage settings applied. Even if you set a car up with absolute neutral settings AND drive like an old woman (or Goy) <G>, the RF tyre heat build-up is still over the top when compared to the other 3 tyre readings. I have tried travelling both ways on the tracks even, thinking there may have been some camber thrust related problem with track direction, but it makes no difference. I get the impression it's a physics glitch left over from the ovals and not being adjusted in the transfer to road circuit racing... Anyone else noticed this, or is it just me and my old P2-450 V3 being taxed to the limits of the NR2003 physics engine. :) ? Cheers, Ron.

> I get the impression it's a physics glitch left over from the ovals andnot > being adjusted in the transfer to road circuit racing... You're quite correct. It's a known bug in N2003. In our league it's addressed by changing the track.ini to more realistic values. Bye, Leo

> You're quite correct. It's a known bug in N2003. In our league it's > addressed by changing the track.ini to more realistic values. But I thought Papyus games were perfect??

"Damien Evans" wrote... > > <snip> > But I thought Papyus games were perfect?? Recreational troll alert. Jan. =---

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:34:44 +0100, "Leo Landman" <leo<remove>@cistron.nl> wrote: >You're quite correct. It's a known bug in N2003. In our league it's >addressed by changing the track.ini to more realistic values. If you set the track_dir in the track.ini to 0 the sim will put the correct tires on the car. Otherwise it seems that it puts left-turn oval tires on the car. No one seems to be doing this in their addon tracks, but everytime I've added it to a track my tire temps came back to where I'd expect. There's a mention of this in the readme for the patch. Jason

I think the reason very few people are doing this is that the readme implies that it is not necessary. "Additionally using "track_type=5" to specify a road course automatically turns on the "left/right" spotter behavior, so you should only need to use the "track_dir=0" if you had a left/right track that you did not want to be counted as a road course (i.e. single-file restarts only, road course Sierra.com ratings, etc.)." Note that none of the Papy road courses have this setting. Possibly it doesn't matter as much with the Cup physics. Nevertheless I don't doubt that you are correct and I went ahead and added it to all my road course files. Can't hurt. Interestingly Norisring has the track_dir set to 1, i.e. left handed, which I would think would not be desirable. I think we should make sure that whomever is running the RASCAR server also makes this change to their files, otherwise the road courses with TA physics could require an excessive amount of pitting. "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > If you set the track_dir in the track.ini to 0 the sim will put the > correct tires on the car. Otherwise it seems that it puts left-turn > oval tires on the car. > > No one seems to be doing this in their addon tracks, but everytime > I've added it to a track my tire temps came back to where I'd expect. > > There's a mention of this in the readme for the patch. > > Jason

Correction, none of the Papy road courses *that come with the game* have this setting. Papyrus Motorsports Park does have track_dir set to 0, but oddly has track_type set to 3, i.e. long oval. Anyway it looks like the track makers are starting to figure this out, so hopefully soon this problem will disappear. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Note that none of the Papy road courses have this setting. Possibly it > doesn't matter as much with the Cup physics. >

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:52:56 -0500, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Correction, none of the Papy road courses *that come with the game* have >this setting. Papyrus Motorsports Park does have track_dir set to 0, but >oddly has track_type set to 3, i.e. long oval. As far as I remember, track type just changes the track rules, chassis type determines the chassis rules (restrictor plate, aero package, etc), and track_dir determines the tires that are put on the car. PMP is more of a superspeedway than a road course, so it wouldn't surprise me if they set it up to use oval rules. Jason

jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> If you set the track_dir in the track.ini to 0 the sim will put the > correct tires on the car. Otherwise it seems that it puts left-turn > oval tires on the car. > > No one seems to be doing this in their addon tracks, but everytime > I've added it to a track my tire temps came back to where I'd expect. > > There's a mention of this in the readme for the patch. > > Jason >

I tried that Jason, but it made no difference. Using the long straight at Le Mans as an example, I tried both with that line and without it in the track.ini, and in both cases the RF was 15 degrees hotter than the LF by the time I reached the braking zone. If anything, the LF should have been hotter as the only turn in the whole straight is to the left.. :) That was using symmetrical settings, so the problem is a bit deeper than that. Thanks for the comments though, it was worth a try. I hope Papy address this problem, though I can't see that happening.. It tends to put a bit of a downer on the whole road racing thing, IMO. It seems a bit sad when we can't set up a car with proper symmetrical settings and expect to see those settings transfer to the chassis in a real life scenario. This only seems to be a problem on road circuits. If there were temp adjustments for all 4 tires in the track.ini, then we could do it cheap and nasty by adjusting the RF back a bit, but that doesn't seem to be an option. Besides, that is only putting a bandaid on the problem, not addressing it. Here's hoping it will be fixed.. Cheers, Ron

You *do* have the patch, doncha? It makes a big difference to tire temps, both as to the dynamics (how quickly it heats up) and the max temp...and, of course, the accuracy. Abt. the only roadie where I have a *lot* of trouble keeping the RF under 200 deg. is Badone. Other than that, I have been able to use the weights, wedge, tape, TPs, springs and shox to more-or-less equalize the temps, corner to corner, and across the tread. BTW, despite the extreme cambers seen in GPL (never mind RW cars like last year's McLaren), Papy seems to have moved more toward F1C and NH in terms of camber thrust: whereas 6-8 (or even 10) deg. hotter on the inside was the norm before, 4-6 seems to work better in N2003, at least on the roadies. I go for the same temp difference betw. inner & outer temps on the front tires as -1.80 deg. camber provides at the rear. "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c3cdf6$2d31e780$2a5d8b90@ronayton...

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> jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in article > <[email hidden]>... > > If you set the track_dir in the track.ini to 0 the sim will put the > > correct tires on the car. Otherwise it seems that it puts left-turn > > oval tires on the car. > > > > No one seems to be doing this in their addon tracks, but everytime > > I've added it to a track my tire temps came back to where I'd expect. > > > > There's a mention of this in the readme for the patch. > > > > Jason > > > > I tried that Jason, but it made no difference. > Using the long straight at Le Mans as an example, I tried both with that > line and without it in the track.ini, and in both cases the RF was 15 > degrees hotter than the LF by the time I reached the braking zone. > If anything, the LF should have been hotter as the only turn in the whole > straight is to the left.. :) > That was using symmetrical settings, so the problem is a bit deeper than > that. > Thanks for the comments though, it was worth a try. > I hope Papy address this problem, though I can't see that happening.. It > tends to put a bit of a downer on the whole road racing thing, IMO. > It seems a bit sad when we can't set up a car with proper symmetrical > settings and expect to see those settings transfer to the chassis in a

real

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> life scenario. > This only seems to be a problem on road circuits. > If there were temp adjustments for all 4 tires in the track.ini, then we > could do it cheap and nasty by adjusting the RF back a bit, but that > doesn't seem to be an option. Besides, that is only putting a bandaid on > the problem, not addressing it. > Here's hoping it will be fixed.. > > Cheers, > Ron >

Ok, guys. Let's not feed the Trolls... -Larry "Damien Evans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bsnvm0$erp2e$[email hidden]... > > You're quite correct. It's a known bug in N2003. In our league it's > > addressed by changing the track.ini to more realistic values. > > But I thought Papyus games were perfect?? > >

Wow, Jason, I did not know that (Ed McMahon voice). I gather that track_dir = 0 indicates roadies w. predominantly *righthand* turns (as most are), but that = 1 is for tracks like Laguna that are run counterclockwise. Would that mean = 1 would put harder tires on the right side of the car? (Presumably you wouldn't want to favor one side or the other on jillion-turn tracks like the Nurburgring, Charade or Dundrod, so you'd omit the line entirely.) Which roadies are counterclockwise, other than Laguna? Badone, Norisring, Roadone, Sandown, Steel, Surfers, and ???? "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:34:44 +0100, "Leo Landman" > <leo<remove>@cistron.nl> wrote: > > >You're quite correct. It's a known bug in N2003. In our league it's > >addressed by changing the track.ini to more realistic values. > > If you set the track_dir in the track.ini to 0 the sim will put the > correct tires on the car. Otherwise it seems that it puts left-turn > oval tires on the car. > > No one seems to be doing this in their addon tracks, but everytime > I've added it to a track my tire temps came back to where I'd expect. > > There's a mention of this in the readme for the patch. > > Jason

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:35:36 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Wow, Jason, I did not know that (Ed McMahon voice). > >I gather that track_dir = 0 indicates roadies w. predominantly *righthand* >turns (as most are), but that = 1 is for tracks like Laguna that are run >counterclockwise. Would that mean = 1 would put harder tires on the right >side of the car? This is from the readme for the patch. I don't understand the last paragraph, as clearly there is more to it than simply controlling the spotter behavior. ----- TRACK DIRECTION SETTING There's a new line which can be added the TRACK.INI near where you specify chassis and track types, called "track_dir". A setting of "1" means the track turns left or counter-clockwise only, so the normal "inside=left" and "outside=right" spotter is used, and tires are mounted on the car for turning left. A setting of "-1" means it's a right or clockwise track, so a reversed "outside=left" and "inside=right" spotter is used, and the tires are mounted on opposite sides than a left track. A setting of "0" means the track turns both left and right, so the spotter will only refer to "left" and "right" instead of "inside" and "outside", and only "outside" tires are mounted on the car so it can turn in both directions equally. Note that by default the game assumes a track is a left-hand oval, so for most tracks this setting will be absent. Additionally using "track_type=5" to specify a road course automatically turns on the "left/right" spotter behavior, so you should only need to use the "track_dir=0" if you had a left/right track that you did not want to be counted as a road course (i.e. single-file restarts only, road course Sierra.com ratings, etc.). ----- Jason

Steve Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in article <RXVHb.8076$[email hidden]>... > You *do* have the patch, doncha? It makes a big difference to tiretemps, > both as to the dynamics (how quickly it heats up) and the max temp...and,of > course, the accuracy. > Hi Steve, Yeah, I have the latest patch installed. Like I said earlier, it can be dialled out, but to do so, it requires un-realistic settings to achieve even temp readings across the four wheels. I shouldn't have to compromise the handling and chassis response to reduce the tire heat build-up on the RF. This is definitely a problem with the physics engine and one I think needs to be addressed before the roadies can be taken serious in NR2003. Just try a trip down Le Mans, or any other long straight on a road circuit, the RF will heat up, even if no lateral weight transfer is happening, so something ain't quite right.. I even tried 0.00 settings of toe, in case there was a flaw in the calculations on the RF when applied to toe settings (not even sure if heat build-up due to excessive toe settings is modelled in NR2003), but no dice. A trip down Le Mans straight will soon show a 15-20 degree higher RF tire heat reading than the LF. That's using a neutral setting. If I really wanted to dial most of it out, I can achieve a reasonable success rate using wedge, suspension settings and tire pressure changes, but that is just hiding the fact there is something wrong with the physics engine in the calculation of tire heat build-up on the RF. It also compromises the chassis response when we need to adjust the settings to un-real specs just to achieve even tire temps on a road circuit like Le Mans, where the LF should actually get hotter than the RF, not the other way around. :) Cheers, Ron

This is more complicated than I thought. Now yer saying there are *3* settings: 0, for a track like the Nurburgring, -1 (w. a minus sign) for a clockwise track like most roadies, and 1 (no plus sign) for counterclockwise roadies like Badone with a preponderance of left turns. Izzat correct? Further, I don't understand what the readme means by "outside" tires. Is this a compound issue (logically, harder tires would be on the outside) or a stagger issue (in the RW, slightly larger-dia. tires would be mounted on the RR for ovals)? Or what? I'm confused.... "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:35:36 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Wow, Jason, I did not know that (Ed McMahon voice). > > > >I gather that track_dir = 0 indicates roadies w. predominantly*righthand* > >turns (as most are), but that = 1 is for tracks like Laguna that are run > >counterclockwise. Would that mean = 1 would put harder tires on theright

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> >side of the car? > > This is from the readme for the patch. I don't understand the last > paragraph, as clearly there is more to it than simply controlling the > spotter behavior. > > ----- > TRACK DIRECTION SETTING > > There's a new line which can be added the TRACK.INI near where you > specify chassis and track types, called "track_dir". A setting of "1" > means the track turns left or counter-clockwise only, so the normal > "inside=left" and "outside=right" spotter is used, and tires are > mounted on the car for turning left. A setting of "-1" means it's a > right or clockwise track, so a reversed "outside=left" and > "inside=right" spotter is used, and the tires are mounted on opposite > sides than a left track. A setting of "0" means the track turns both > left and right, so the spotter will only refer to "left" and "right" > instead of "inside" and "outside", and only "outside" tires are > mounted on the car so it can turn in both directions equally. > > Note that by default the game assumes a track is a left-hand oval, so > for most tracks this setting will be absent. Additionally using > "track_type=5" to specify a road course automatically turns on the > "left/right" spotter behavior, so you should only need to use the > "track_dir=0" if you had a left/right track that you did not want to > be counted as a road course (i.e. single-file restarts only, road > course Sierra.com ratings, etc.). > ----- > > Jason

...and that still leaves unanswered the musical question: Which roadies are counterclockwise, other than Laguna? Badone, Norisring, Roadone, Sandown, Steel, Surfers, and ???? "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:35:36 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Wow, Jason, I did not know that (Ed McMahon voice). > > > >I gather that track_dir = 0 indicates roadies w. predominantly*righthand* > >turns (as most are), but that = 1 is for tracks like Laguna that are run > >counterclockwise. Would that mean = 1 would put harder tires on theright

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> >side of the car? > > This is from the readme for the patch. I don't understand the last > paragraph, as clearly there is more to it than simply controlling the > spotter behavior. > > ----- > TRACK DIRECTION SETTING > > There's a new line which can be added the TRACK.INI near where you > specify chassis and track types, called "track_dir". A setting of "1" > means the track turns left or counter-clockwise only, so the normal > "inside=left" and "outside=right" spotter is used, and tires are > mounted on the car for turning left. A setting of "-1" means it's a > right or clockwise track, so a reversed "outside=left" and > "inside=right" spotter is used, and the tires are mounted on opposite > sides than a left track. A setting of "0" means the track turns both > left and right, so the spotter will only refer to "left" and "right" > instead of "inside" and "outside", and only "outside" tires are > mounted on the car so it can turn in both directions equally. > > Note that by default the game assumes a track is a left-hand oval, so > for most tracks this setting will be absent. Additionally using > "track_type=5" to specify a road course automatically turns on the > "left/right" spotter behavior, so you should only need to use the > "track_dir=0" if you had a left/right track that you did not want to > be counted as a road course (i.e. single-file restarts only, road > course Sierra.com ratings, etc.). > ----- > > Jason

Is it possible this is due to crown in the road? If you run down the straight at LeMans on the left side of the track do you see different RF temps than when running down the right side of the straight? "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c3ce50$7e0d1d00$615d8b90@ronayton...

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> > > Hi Steve, > > Yeah, I have the latest patch installed. > Like I said earlier, it can be dialled out, but to do so, it requires > un-realistic settings to achieve even temp readings across the four

wheels. > I shouldn't have to compromise the handling and chassis response to reduce > the tire heat build-up on the RF. > This is definitely a problem with the physics engine and one I think needs > to be addressed before the roadies can be taken serious in NR2003. > Just try a trip down Le Mans, or any other long straight on a roadcircuit, > the RF will heat up, even if no lateral weight transfer is happening, so > something ain't quite right.. > I even tried 0.00 settings of toe, in case there was a flaw in the > calculations on the RF when applied to toe settings (not even sure if heat > build-up due to excessive toe settings is modelled in NR2003), but nodice.

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> A trip down Le Mans straight will soon show a 15-20 degree higher RF tire > heat reading than the LF. That's using a neutral setting. > If I really wanted to dial most of it out, I can achieve a reasonable > success rate using wedge, suspension settings and tire pressure changes, > but that is just hiding the fact there is something wrong with the physics > engine in the calculation of tire heat build-up on the RF. It also > compromises the chassis response when we need to adjust the settings to > un-real specs just to achieve even tire temps on a road circuit like Le > Mans, where the LF should actually get hotter than the RF, not the other > way around. :) > > Cheers, > Ron

The way I read it you want a 1 for tracks that turn *exclusively* left, a -1 for tracks that turn *exclusively* right, and a 0 for any track that turns both ways. IOW all roadies should be set to 0. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cu2Ib.13946$[email hidden]... > This is more complicated than I thought. Now yer saying there are *3* > settings: 0, for a track like the Nurburgring, -1 (w. a minus sign) for a > clockwise track like most roadies, and 1 (no plus sign) forcounterclockwise > roadies like Badone with a preponderance of left turns. Izzat correct? > > Further, I don't understand what the readme means by "outside" tires. Is > this a compound issue (logically, harder tires would be on the outside) ora > stagger issue (in the RW, slightly larger-dia. tires would be mounted onthe > RR for ovals)? Or what? I'm confused.... >

I ran some tests at Badone, which, IMO, puts the most stress on the RF tire of any road circuit. I left the setup (which, admittedly, has a lot of weight bias, wedge, jacking, etc, 'cuz of the extreme nature of the circuit) alone, and only changed the track_dir value from 1 (which it's supposed to be, since it's a counterclockwise circuit, kinda like a roller coaster ver. of the Norisring) to -1 and back again. With it set to -1, the diff betw. the LF and RF temps was *less* than when it was set to 1, which is screwy, that is, the opposite of what it should be...theoretically. Also tried the same test at Le Mans (where the setup values are far less extreme), but the results were inconclusive, it part because Mulsanne is like I-10 across Arizona (the tires should be cooling off here), and in part because there is only one left turn (why do you think it's called "Indianapolis"?). Like Ron, I was annoyed to see the RF heating up faster than the LF on the Mulsanne straight (which is also screwy), no matter which way the track_dir number was, but I noted that, either way, the tire temps were more-or-less even L to R and F to R at the end of the long righthander under the Dunlop bridge, which is where I want my setup to be. (Also more-or-less equalized exiting the Esses.) IOW, it may be irritatingly illogical to have an unpovoked temp diff on the straight, but it really doesn't matter as long as it's even where it counts - in the majority of the turns (e.g., lefts at Laguna, etc., and rights at the Sarthe, etc.). I was too busy watching the tire temps to try for fast laps, but I somehow doubt that changing the track_dir value from -1 to 1 or 0 makes that much difference. I may experiment further here.... "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c3ce50$7e0d1d00$615d8b90@ronayton...

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> > > Steve Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in article > <RXVHb.8076$[email hidden]>... > > You *do* have the patch, doncha? It makes a big difference to tire > temps, > > both as to the dynamics (how quickly it heats up) and the max

temp...and,

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> of > > course, the accuracy. > > > > Hi Steve, > > Yeah, I have the latest patch installed. > Like I said earlier, it can be dialled out, but to do so, it requires > un-realistic settings to achieve even temp readings across the four

wheels. > I shouldn't have to compromise the handling and chassis response to reduce > the tire heat build-up on the RF. > This is definitely a problem with the physics engine and one I think needs > to be addressed before the roadies can be taken serious in NR2003. > Just try a trip down Le Mans, or any other long straight on a roadcircuit, > the RF will heat up, even if no lateral weight transfer is happening, so > something ain't quite right.. > I even tried 0.00 settings of toe, in case there was a flaw in the > calculations on the RF when applied to toe settings (not even sure if heat > build-up due to excessive toe settings is modelled in NR2003), but nodice.

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> A trip down Le Mans straight will soon show a 15-20 degree higher RF tire > heat reading than the LF. That's using a neutral setting. > If I really wanted to dial most of it out, I can achieve a reasonable > success rate using wedge, suspension settings and tire pressure changes, > but that is just hiding the fact there is something wrong with the physics > engine in the calculation of tire heat build-up on the RF. It also > compromises the chassis response when we need to adjust the settings to > un-real specs just to achieve even tire temps on a road circuit like Le > Mans, where the LF should actually get hotter than the RF, not the other > way around. :) > > Cheers, > Ron

Steve Smith wrote: > ...and that still leaves unanswered the musical question: Which roadies are > counterclockwise, other than Laguna? Badone, Norisring, Roadone, Sandown, > Steel, Surfers, and ???? > Oval-ish road courses like Pikes Peak, Las Vegas, Texas Motor Speedway, New Hampshire...

Each track you plan on running pta needs to be appropriatly ajusted to the pta physics. For Evans, perfections only exist in dreams EL "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c3cd96$693b7a80$0100007f@ronayton... > I was just curious if anyone else here has noticed the tendency for the RF > tyre to over-heat on the road circuits. > It is possible to almost dial it out, using totally un-realisticsuspension

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> and tire pressure settings for any given situation, but the settings > required to make the RF heat build-up not exceed what should be reasonably > expected, is way past the bounds of reason, IMO. > I am referring to the TA side of the physics engine, as I have not even > bothered trying the standard NASCAR physics on the road courses at all. > "Yes", I do know how to set up a car, <G>, but the RF heat build-up on > the road circuits is not accurate and does not reflect the garage settings > applied. > Even if you set a car up with absolute neutral settings AND drive like an > old woman (or Goy) <G>, the RF tyre heat build-up is still over the top > when compared to the other 3 tyre readings. I have tried travelling both > ways on the tracks even, thinking there may have been some camber thrust > related problem with track direction, but it makes no difference. > I get the impression it's a physics glitch left over from the ovals and

not > being adjusted in the transfer to road circuit racing... > Anyone else noticed this, or is it just me and my old P2-450 V3 beingtaxed > to the limits of the NR2003 physics engine. :) ? > > Cheers, > Ron. > >

Haqsau <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > Is it possible this is due to crown in the road? If you run down the > straight at LeMans on the left side of the track do you see different RF > temps than when running down the right side of the straight? > Hi Haqsau, Makes no difference to the temps wherever you drive on the track, left, right, normal track direction or reversed track direction. I thought about camber thrust related problems, including road crown and toe etc, but it is still the same regardless. Ah well, i'm sure someone will come up with a fix for the road circuits, as it's a bit of a bummer having the RF act like it's riding on a lava flow.. :) Cheers, Ron

Um, by my reckoning, those you mention are ALL ovals (unless you meant the PP *hillclimb*). "Matthew Jessick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > ...and that still leaves unanswered the musical question: Which roadiesare > > counterclockwise, other than Laguna? Badone, Norisring, Roadone,Sandown,

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> > Steel, Surfers, and ???? > > > > Oval-ish road courses like Pikes Peak, Las Vegas, Texas Motor Speedway, > New Hampshire... > > >

Okay, back to the old drawing board...er, text editor. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The way I read it you want a 1 for tracks that turn *exclusively* left,a -1

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> for tracks that turn *exclusively* right, and a 0 for any track that turns > both ways. IOW all roadies should be set to 0. > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cu2Ib.13946$[email hidden]... > > This is more complicated than I thought. Now yer saying there are *3* > > settings: 0, for a track like the Nurburgring, -1 (w. a minus sign) for

a > > clockwise track like most roadies, and 1 (no plus sign) for > counterclockwise > > roadies like Badone with a preponderance of left turns. Izzat correct? > > > > Further, I don't understand what the readme means by "outside" tires.Is > > this a compound issue (logically, harder tires would be on the outside)or

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> a > > stagger issue (in the RW, slightly larger-dia. tires would be mounted on > the > > RR for ovals)? Or what? I'm confused.... > > > >

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gvfIb.20436$[email hidden]... > Um, by my reckoning, those you mention are ALL ovals (unless you meant the > PP *hillclimb*). Think infield road course, a la Daytona. -jde

Beneath contempt. Basically a high-banked oval with a gymkhana layout in the parking lot. "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3ff1936c$0$12033$[email hidden]... > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:gvfIb.20436$[email hidden]... > > Um, by my reckoning, those you mention are ALL ovals (unless you meantthe

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> > PP *hillclimb*). > > Think infield road course, a la Daytona. > > -jde > >

Here's a section of the FAQ for TPTCC (http://www.theuspits.com/sims/nascar_racing/tptcc-faq.html) that may be relevant: Q. How can I make a track "TPTCC compatible"? A. Here are the lines to add to your track.ini. NOTE: Since TPTCC is in it's early stages, be aware that the AI values may need to be modified. If you think something needs to be changed, let us know, and tell us why. [ track_pta ] track_tire_heat = 0.95 track_tire_wear = 1.20 track_tire_wear_loss = 0.10 track_tire_wear_exp = 1.05 track_asphalt_grip = 1.00 track_concrete_grip = 1.05 This is for the AI track records [ pta ] record_lap_time = 52.783 record_holder = Boris Said This is for the AI [ ai_track_pta ] ai_accel_modifier = 1.08 ai_decel_modifier = 0.88 ai_fuel_use = 1.00 ai_grip_modifier = 1.00 ai_drag_modifier = 0.88 ai_qual_modifier = 1.30 ai_tire_wear_left = 0.59 ai_tire_wear_right = 0.61 Note that they made tire wear different for left and right. "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c3cebc$829e6ce0$5e5d8b90@ronayton...

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> > Hi Haqsau, > > Makes no difference to the temps wherever you drive on the track, left, > right, normal track direction or reversed track direction. > I thought about camber thrust related problems, including road crown and > toe etc, but it is still the same regardless. > Ah well, i'm sure someone will come up with a fix for the road circuits, > as it's a bit of a bummer having the RF act like it's riding on a lava > flow.. :) > > Cheers, > Ron

Steve Smith wrote: > Um, by my reckoning, those you mention are ALL ovals (unless you meant the > PP *hillclimb*). >>Oval-ish road courses like Pikes Peak, Las Vegas, Texas Motor Speedway, >>New Hampshire... They all feature infield road courses (or did at one time).

Lemme put it this way: I'd rather run a race in an underground parking garage (or a street race in Chernobyl) than any "infield" circuit ever conceived. "Matthew Jessick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > Um, by my reckoning, those you mention are ALL ovals (unless you meantthe

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> > PP *hillclimb*). > > > >>Oval-ish road courses like Pikes Peak, Las Vegas, Texas Motor Speedway, > >>New Hampshire... > > They all feature infield road courses (or did at one time). >

Or, to paraphrase Rusty Wallace, I wouldn't get out of an electric chair to race on an infield circuit. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uSVIb.99828$[email hidden]...

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> Lemme put it this way: I'd rather run a race in an underground parking > garage (or a street race in Chernobyl) than any "infield" circuit ever > conceived. > > "Matthew Jessick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > Um, by my reckoning, those you mention are ALL ovals (unless you meant > the > > > PP *hillclimb*). > > > > > > >>Oval-ish road courses like Pikes Peak, Las Vegas, Texas Motor

Speedway, > > >>New Hampshire... > > > > They all feature infield road courses (or did at one time). > > > >

In article <uSVIb.99828$[email hidden]>, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: >Lemme put it this way: I'd rather run a race in an underground parking >garage (or a street race in Chernobyl) than any "infield" circuit ever >conceived. Grognard...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:09:30 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Lemme put it this way: I'd rather run a race in an underground parking >garage (or a street race in Chernobyl) than any "infield" circuit ever >conceived. This from the man who recently admitted that he enjoys Belle Isle Park in stock cars.... =) Jason

Street races are another thing. Some are tolerable (Surfers, Belle Isle), some ain't (The Meadowlands, Houston), but I've never met an oval-cum-roadie (and I use the word "cum" advisedly) that I could, ah, swallow. "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:09:30 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Lemme put it this way: I'd rather run a race in an underground parking > >garage (or a street race in Chernobyl) than any "infield" circuit ever > >conceived. > > This from the man who recently admitted that he enjoys Belle Isle Park > in stock cars.... =) > > Jason