TPTCC v2.1 is out

http://www.theuspits.com/sims/nascar_racing/tptcc.html Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

http://www.theuspits.com/sims/nascar_racing/tptcc.html Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > > http://www.theuspits.com/sims/nascar_racing/tptcc.html > What is v2.1 you may ask? A good update from v1.3 that includes the original Mustang and Corvette and the new Ford GT as well as the Dodge Viper Competition Coupe.(which is a slightly newer & different bird from the well known Viper GTS-R of LeMans/Rolex/ALMS fame). You must have v2.1 to race on the TPTCC league server and only those with v2.1 will be able to see and join sessions hosted by users with v2.1 Dave(who already has a partially painted 'Fly By Night' Viper--thanks to my teammate) Henrie

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> writes: >Dave(who already has a partially painted 'Fly By Night' Viper--thanks to my >teammate) Fly By Night, as in by Rush? Is someone could do a Vapor Trails Mustang for me, I'd be grateful... :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> Fly By Night, as in by Rush? Is someone could do a Vapor Trails Mustang for > me, I'd be grateful... :-) > > Eldred Yup, Got some big ol OWL eyes on the top of the hood(bonnet) DJ still has to get the rest of the bird filled in...I'll post a link once we have something to display. Vapor Trails would be easy...just a white smudge across the car. :) dave henrie Frodo Lives and Neil Peart is King.

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > http://www.theuspits.com/sims/nascar_racing/tptcc.html So is it offical now or still considered beta? MadDAWG

MadDAWG wrote: ... > So is it offical now or still considered beta? TPTCC website says it's still beta. Achim

> TPTCC website says it's still beta. > > Achim thanks. darn filters kept me from looking myself. I'm here 8 hours a day you don't expect me to work too do ya? :) MadDAWG

MadDAWG wrote: ... > I'm here 8 hours a day you don't expect me to work too do ya? :) Of course not! Achim

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > http://www.theuspits.com/sims/nascar_racing/tptcc.html > Thanks - gotta love that Gulf GT. But - is it typical to get a huge FPS hit with the TPTCC cars? Running only the std 14 cars, with either 2.1 or its predecessor, I get a full 15 FPS less at the back of the grid vs the Papy Cup cars or any of the PWF mods. Pretty much renders the mod unusable, at least for offline, on an XP1800/oc'ed Ti4400 setup. I have to run a full field of Cup cars to get my FPS as low as the TPTCC mod with 14 cars. SB

My guess would be a higher poly count in the car models. If the tcpcc cars twice as many polys as the cup cars then you should run half as many cars. MadDAWG

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4002d8b3$[email hidden]... > My guess would be a higher poly count in the car models. If the tcpcc cars > twice as many polys as the cup cars then you should run half as many cars. > Thx - saw on the Pits forum that I'm not the only one with the issue; apparently it's come about since version 1.3 of the mod and involves some of the new car models. As it is now, I get better FPS with 42 AI Cup cars than with 14 AI TPTCC cars. The new cars do look nice, but the graphics aren't worth that kind of performance hit to me. Suppose I can just convert and use Cup cars unless/until they sort it out. SB

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:4002d8b3$[email hidden]... >> My guess would be a higher poly count in the car models. If the tcpcc cars >> twice as many polys as the cup cars then you should run half as many cars. >> > > Thx - saw on the Pits forum that I'm not the only one with the issue; > apparently it's come about since version 1.3 of the mod and involves some of > the new car models. As it is now, I get better FPS with 42 AI Cup cars than > with 14 AI TPTCC cars. The new cars do look nice, but the graphics aren't > worth that kind of performance hit to me. Suppose I can just convert and > use Cup cars unless/until they sort it out. > > SB

I haven't run it with the full field of high rez cars, but the tptcc league is mandating that all the cars submitted for the tptcc league races must be in the 512rez. You might want to try dloading the tptcc carset from Jan. 11th. It has all the cars resized to 512. http://tptcc.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1 dave henrie

> I haven't run it with the full field of high rez cars, but the tptccleague is mandating > that all the cars submitted for the tptcc league races must be in the512rez. > You might want to try dloading the tptcc carset from Jan. 11th. It hasall the cars > resized to 512. > > http://tptcc.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1 > > dave henrie I doubt its the texture size causing the problem. Most people can run a full field of 1024 painted cars. Its still not a bad idea to do for a league since it might keep someone with a slow system out of trouble. MadDAWG

Steve Blankenship wrote:

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> > Thx - saw on the Pits forum that I'm not the only one with the issue; > apparently it's come about since version 1.3 of the mod and involves some of > the new car models. As it is now, I get better FPS with 42 AI Cup cars than > with 14 AI TPTCC cars. The new cars do look nice, but the graphics aren't > worth that kind of performance hit to me. Suppose I can just convert and > use Cup cars unless/until they sort it out.

Ok.....this is what I'm running on this particular PC 1024x768x32 Car Quality High Mirror Quality Med World Quality High Trackside Objects All Oppnent Pit Crews Low Texture Filtering Quality Extreme Opponents ahead 22 Opponents behind 5 Drwing Distance 90% Steering Wheel Off Animated Objects Off Animated Pit Crew Off Debris and particles On Skidmarks On Smoke Off Windshield Buildup Off Track Lighting and shading On Track Specular highlights Off Solar Effects Off Reflections on cars On Reflections on structures On Shadows on ground On/on Shadows on cars Off Number of sounds 16 It's not my racing PC but I need something to quickly check things, it's a P4-2.4C with 512 RAM and an a rather ancient R8500LE vid card, nothing OC'ed (shock and horror) and using on board sound, no AA or AF as I know this ancient vid card can't handle that 25 cars, back of the pack at Dega (I'm using the keyboard :-) I get 30ish FPS, this is with the "default" carset distributed with v2.1, on L3 I see high 30's as I pass the S/F line I don't have the original Cup cars installed on this PC anymore so I can't compare Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

No Jaguar? David G Fisher "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > http://www.theuspits.com/sims/nascar_racing/tptcc.html >

David G Fisher wrote: > > No Jaguar? Your observational skills is astonishing :-D Nope, that would be PWF, we're the ones doing the non-T/A T/A-mod, on the other hand, since the T/A series is falling apart as we exchange these comments, I guess PWF's T/A mod is a fictional one as well, go figure According to a person who claims to be in the know, and it does indeed seem as if he's not alone in his conviction in this matter, Gentilozzi (sp) is an idiot Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Ok.....this is what I'm running on this particular PC<snip> Thanks Goy (& Dave) - the 15 FPS gap I referenced was with 14AI at Spa. For comparison to Goy's numbers, here are some Fraps numbers from me at Talladega with 25AI, along with my graphics settings. In general, running more AI closes the gap a bit as the increased CPU load affects FPS. Comparing with fewer AI would probably be a better indicator of online performance differences. Anywho - machine specs are: XP1800-128mb Leadtek Ti4400(oc'ed to 300/600 w/45.23whql)-256mb-SB Audigy-98SE (Nvidia settings: 2X AA & 2X Aniso, high performance texture filtering) FRAPS log for NR2003 - Talladega, with 25AI. Two laps from back of the grid in cockpit view, easing off so that the pack was out of sight by the end of lap two. CUP: Avg: 34.062 - Min: 25 - Max: 53 CTS: Avg: 31.065 - Min: 23 - Max: 53 TPTCC V2.1: Avg: 23.395 - Min: 14 - Max: 43 Graphics settings: OGL, 1280X960X16 Car Quality High Mirror Quality Med World Quality High Trackside Objects All Oppnent Pit Crews Low Texture Filtering Quality Extreme Opponents ahead 42 Opponents behind 10 Drawing Distance 100% Steering Wheel Off Animated Objects Off Animated Pit Crew Off Debris and particles On Skidmarks On Smoke On Windshield Buildup Off Track Lighting and shading On Track Specular highlights Off Solar Effects Off Reflections on cars On Reflections on structures On Shadows on ground On/on Shadows on cars Off Number of sounds 16 So even with the increased CPU load of 25 AI, it's still a direct 10-11 FPS graphics hit vs the Cup cars - with similar size car models. The .car files with the TPTCC2 mod aren't appreciably larger than the Papy .car files (around 344kb each). The CTS truck files are about twice the size and while you do see slower load times, the FPS are still considerably better than the TPTCC cars. No doubt I could turn the AA & Aniso off, but don't need to with any of the other series. I generally choose my NR2003 graphics settings to get the best IQ I can without dropping below a (GPL-reference) 36 FPS average in offline races, and at most tracks I can run 30AI with those settings on my aging box. Something in one or more of the car models is gobbling FPS at present. Thanks again - hope you guys can find the source; the cars do look great! SB

Steve Blankenship wrote: > > CUP: Avg: 34.062 - Min: 25 - Max: 53 > > CTS: Avg: 31.065 - Min: 23 - Max: 53 > > TPTCC V2.1: Avg: 23.395 - Min: 14 - Max: 43 About a 10 FPS drop vs the Cup cars, that sounds about right, I'm a bit surprised that you don't see a diff between Cup and CTS though as the CTS has a higher poly count than the Cup cars, they're about the same count as our TPTCC cars, they are final of course so I would have expected them to fall somewhere in the middle

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> So even with the increased CPU load of 25 AI, it's still a direct 10-11 FPS > graphics hit vs the Cup cars - with similar size car models. The .car files > with the TPTCC2 mod aren't appreciably larger than the Papy .car files > (around 344kb each). The CTS truck files are about twice the size and while > you do see slower load times, the FPS are still considerably better than the > TPTCC cars. No doubt I could turn the AA & Aniso off, but don't need to > with any of the other series. I generally choose my NR2003 graphics > settings to get the best IQ I can without dropping below a (GPL-reference) > 36 FPS average in offline races, and at most tracks I can run 30AI with > those settings on my aging box. Something in one or more of the car models > is gobbling FPS at present. > > Thanks again - hope you guys can find the source; the cars do look great!

Well, we still have quite a bit to do with LOD's and things like that so I expect things will improve a bit when the guys get that bit sorted, if you have the time and patience, it would be interesting to see if there was a substantial difference between ruining with 25 GT's and Vipers as opposed to 25 Vettes and Stangs, if and when you have the time of course Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Steve Blankenship wrote: > > > > CUP: Avg: 34.062 - Min: 25 - Max: 53 > > > > CTS: Avg: 31.065 - Min: 23 - Max: 53 > > > > TPTCC V2.1: Avg: 23.395 - Min: 14 - Max: 43 > > About a 10 FPS drop vs the Cup cars, that sounds about right, I'm a bit > surprised that you don't see a diff between Cup and CTS though as the > CTS has a higher poly count than the Cup cars, they're about the same > count as our TPTCC cars, they are final of course so I would have > expected them to fall somewhere in the middle > > > So even with the increased CPU load of 25 AI, it's still a direct 10-11

FPS > > graphics hit vs the Cup cars - with similar size car models. The .carfiles > > with the TPTCC2 mod aren't appreciably larger than the Papy .car files > > (around 344kb each). The CTS truck files are about twice the size andwhile > > you do see slower load times, the FPS are still considerably better thanthe > > TPTCC cars. No doubt I could turn the AA & Aniso off, but don't need to > > with any of the other series. I generally choose my NR2003 graphics > > settings to get the best IQ I can without dropping below a(GPL-reference) > > 36 FPS average in offline races, and at most tracks I can run 30AI with > > those settings on my aging box. Something in one or more of the carmodels > > is gobbling FPS at present. > > > > Thanks again - hope you guys can find the source; the cars do lookgreat!

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> > Well, we still have quite a bit to do with LOD's and things like that so > I expect things will improve a bit when the guys get that bit sorted, if > you have the time and patience, it would be interesting to see if there > was a substantial difference between ruining with 25 GT's and Vipers as > opposed to 25 Vettes and Stangs, if and when you have the time of course >

Thanks, Goy - a quick follow up to verify my thinking on the effect of AI load; same settings as before but with only 10AI, sitting at the back of the grid at Talley in a Cup race I'm getting 45-46 FPS. In a TPTCC race, it's 26-27. I'll try to see if different cars matter. SB

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> > > David G Fisher wrote: >> >> No Jaguar? > > Your observational skills is astonishing :-D > > Nope, that would be PWF, we're the ones doing the non-T/A T/A-mod, on > the other hand, since the T/A series is falling apart as we exchange > these comments, I guess PWF's T/A mod is a fictional one as well, go > figure > > According to a person who claims to be in the know, and it does indeed > seem as if he's not alone in his conviction in this matter, Gentilozzi > (sp) is an idiot > > > Beers and cheers

Gentilozzi CAN'T be an idiot!! He has to save CART AND Trans Am. What will I do? Watch Aussie V8s???? dave henrie

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Thanks, Goy - a quick follow up to verify my thinking on the effect of AI > load; same settings as before but with only 10AI, sitting at the back ofthe > grid at Talley in a Cup race I'm getting 45-46 FPS. In a TPTCC race, it's > 26-27. I'll try to see if different cars matter. > > SB Problem found; it's not the car models, it's the TPTCC COCKPIT that's eating the framerate. Here are some Fraps numbers from trying various series in test sessions and then one lap of 5-car AI races with same-car rosters. As you can see, the test session FPS gap remains about the same in the AI races. There is also some variation between the car models, but not much (if you ignore the max FPS and go by the average), at least relative to the hit from the cockpit Hope this is of use to you guys... FPS Avg: Min: Max: test session: Talladega, one lap from the pits cup 66.0 53 77 tptcc 52.4 48 58 diff -13.6 -5 -19 gns 67.4 54 80 diff 1.5 1 3 cts 66.8 53 80 0.9 0 3 race: startup to end of lap one from the back with 5 AI in identical cars cup 46.3 36 57 TPTCC gt's 33.4 29 39 diff -13.0 -7 -18 stangs 35.5 31 54 diff -10.9 -5 -3 vipers 33.9 29 52 diff -12.5 -7 -5 vettes 35.0 30 41 diff -11.3 -6 -16

> > 1024x768x32 Running a higher res, full field, everything maxed and its fluid...................... ...........................smooth with a AMD 2100XP o/ed to 2.1 and a ATI Radeon 9500 no probs here!!......... FWIW.

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: Good Catch. Have you passed this on to the pits forums? And next question, are you using any of the 3rd party dash enhancements? There are some new tachs and guages and carbon fibre ...just so they'll know whether it is the stock tptcc dash or the 3rd(or would that be 4th?)party extras. dave henrie

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:21:03 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Thx - saw on the Pits forum that I'm not the only one with the issue; >apparently it's come about since version 1.3 of the mod and involves some of >the new car models. As it is now, I get better FPS with 42 AI Cup cars than >with 14 AI TPTCC cars. The new cars do look nice, but the graphics aren't >worth that kind of performance hit to me. Suppose I can just convert and >use Cup cars unless/until they sort it out. Does the TPTCC mod use LoD balancing in its current incarnation? I had assumed (at least with 1.3 and earlier) that the framerate hit was caused by that. Jason

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:54:42 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >According to a person who claims to be in the know, and it does indeed >seem as if he's not alone in his conviction in this matter, Gentilozzi >(sp) is an idiot I dunno, he's pulling both CART and Trans Am together under one organizatoinal umbrella and having TA run as a support series at most events, which seems like a good promotional move. Also, he's the only person I can think of directly involved in CART who has actually come out and said that the survival of open wheel in America is heavily dependent on CART and IRL merging in some fashion. And he said it without referring to Tony George as evil or indy cars as crapwagons. Quite shocking, yes. Jason

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote innews:[email hidden]: > > Good Catch. Have you passed this on to the pits forums? And nextquestion, > are you using any of the 3rd party dash enhancements? There are some new > tachs and guages and carbon fibre ...just so they'll know whether it isthe stock > tptcc dash or the 3rd(or would that be 4th?)party extras. > dave henrie No on both counts; stock TPTCC dash and my blathering about it has been confined to RAS so far. Good to know where the problem lies though - should make it easier to sort out. SB

Holy Shit! A MAC version! -Larry "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > http://www.theuspits.com/sims/nascar_racing/tptcc.html > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> > > Steve Blankenship wrote: >> >> CUP: Avg: 34.062 - Min: 25 - Max: 53 >> >> CTS: Avg: 31.065 - Min: 23 - Max: 53 >> >> TPTCC V2.1: Avg: 23.395 - Min: 14 - Max: 43 > > About a 10 FPS drop vs the Cup cars, that sounds about right, I'm a > bit surprised that you don't see a diff between Cup and CTS though as > the CTS has a higher poly count than the Cup cars, they're about the > same count as our TPTCC cars, they are final of course so I would have > expected them to fall somewhere in the middle > >> So even with the increased CPU load of 25 AI, it's still a direct >> 10-11 FPS graphics hit vs the Cup cars - with similar size car >> models. The .car files with the TPTCC2 mod aren't appreciably larger >> than the Papy .car files (around 344kb each). The CTS truck files >> are about twice the size and while you do see slower load times, the >> FPS are still considerably better than the TPTCC cars. No doubt I >> could turn the AA & Aniso off, but don't need to with any of the >> other series. I generally choose my NR2003 graphics settings to get >> the best IQ I can without dropping below a (GPL-reference) 36 FPS >> average in offline races, and at most tracks I can run 30AI with >> those settings on my aging box. Something in one or more of the car >> models is gobbling FPS at present. >> >> Thanks again - hope you guys can find the source; the cars do look >> great! > > Well, we still have quite a bit to do with LOD's and things like that > so I expect things will improve a bit when the guys get that bit > sorted, if you have the time and patience, it would be interesting to > see if there was a substantial difference between ruining with 25 GT's > and Vipers as opposed to 25 Vettes and Stangs, if and when you have > the time of course > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Actually our truck models range from 100 polys more (~980 polys) than the n2003 stock car models (~888 polygons), to 100 polys less than the stock car models. (The dodge got down to 751 polys.) KevinC http://www.projectwildfire.com

KevinC wrote:

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> > > Actually our truck models range from 100 polys more (~980 polys) than > the n2003 stock car models (~888 polygons), to 100 polys less than the > stock car models. (The dodge got down to 751 polys.) > > KevinC > http://www.projectwildfire.com

Ah, ok, I was under the impression that the trucks was in the 1000-1200 range as well, guess I misunderstood a post on your boards a while back, thx for clearing it up Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Gentilozzi CAN'T be an idiot!! He has to save CART AND Trans Am.What > will I do? Watch Aussie V8s???? > dave henrie AFAIK, Paulie G let the SCCA contract to use the Trans-Am name lapse without renewing, so we could very well have yet another civil war in non-NASCAR American motorsport. -jde

"J.D. Ellis" wrote:

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> > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Gentilozzi CAN'T be an idiot!! He has to save CART AND Trans Am. > What > > will I do? Watch Aussie V8s???? > > dave henrie > > AFAIK, Paulie G let the SCCA contract to use the Trans-Am name lapse without > renewing, so we could very well have yet another civil war in non-NASCAR > American motorsport.

And according to the same person who claimed Paul G to be an idiot, or maybe it was one of the supporting cast, the T/A teams and drivers are looking for properly run series as we speak Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:21:03 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Thx - saw on the Pits forum that I'm not the only one with the issue; > >apparently it's come about since version 1.3 of the mod and involves someof > >the new car models. As it is now, I get better FPS with 42 AI Cup carsthan > >with 14 AI TPTCC cars. The new cars do look nice, but the graphicsaren't

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> >worth that kind of performance hit to me. Suppose I can just convert and > >use Cup cars unless/until they sort it out. > > Does the TPTCC mod use LoD balancing in its current incarnation? I > had assumed (at least with 1.3 and earlier) that the framerate hit was > caused by that. > > Jason

IIRC Steve played around and figured out it was the dash. MadDAWG

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:40084cb5$[email hidden]:

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>> >> Does the TPTCC mod use LoD balancing in its current incarnation? I >> had assumed (at least with 1.3 and earlier) that the framerate hit was >> caused by that. >> >> Jason > > IIRC Steve played around and figured out it was the dash. > > MadDAWG >

The latest I've read in the pit's forums is that the Viper and GT are not completely finished. So the LOD's are not implemented with them. The Mustang and Vette DO have the LOD's so we don't see the big framerate hits. HOWEVER, Steve's research into the dash framerate problems doesn't really jibe with this. So I think the problem of the dash isn't as apparent when the lod's are working. The Pits will be updating the lods and Scott Stockton the main 3d modeler, says he too missed a couple of items in the new cars. So I think we can expect some improvements shortly in that area. Maybe somebody will have to craft a 'lite' version of the tptcc dash, especially for systems with lower specs. dave henrie

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:38:35 -0600, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote: > The Pits will be updating the lods and Scott Stockton the main 3d modeler, says >he too missed a couple of items in the new cars. So I think we can expect some >improvements shortly in that area. Maybe somebody will have to craft a >'lite' version of the tptcc dash, especially for systems with lower specs. When's the visual damage coming. 3.0? Jason

> When's the visual damage coming. 3.0? > > Jason > dunno... :) I'm not on the inside...Keep an eye out in the TPTCC forum at the pits. Of course this brings up the whole forum vs newsgroup thing. :) :) dave henrie

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> > > When's the visual damage coming. 3.0? > > > > Jason > > > > dunno... :) I'm not on the inside...Keep an eye out in the TPTCC forum at the pits. > Of course this brings up the whole forum vs newsgroup thing. :) :) > > dave henrie

We'll prolly do a couple of updates to the current release to see if we can cure the FPS issues that some people are having, it seems to be hitting some people worse than others for some reason, Scott Stockton is looking at reducing the poly count in the cockpit a bit and clean up some minor issues that was missed and we'll be introducing some LOD's that should help a bit as well After that we'll prolly go full tilt on introducing the damage and not release any more updates until the damage is ready, that's assuming nobody finds any major bugs that need immediate attention Web forums, I hate them Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--