RASCAR: RA

Mitch, I don't know how others feel about this, but on the server fast setup would it be possible to set the brake bias about 1% more forward ? The current fast setup has the brake bias set too far rearward, and I fear we may have a lot of brake-induced spins today. It's really touchy... I tried the anti-lock brake option, but it's no good. You'll end up in the fence coming into the last turn because there isn't enough braking power. I think the Fast setup is pretty good, but I personally believe it needs this one tweak to help us have a safer race. -Larry

Actually, I just did some testing and changing it from the current 58% to 60% completely transforms the car into something that is very manageable. I personally prefer about 61%, but that might be a bit much for some. I HATE a loose rear end under braking, and NR2003 isn't the best at brake modulation. I really do think that adjusting the pushed setup for the races to 60% will be better for everyone all around. Maybe we can test it during the practice race ? -Larry "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YqbOb.3597$_H5.1931@lakeread06... > Mitch, > > I don't know how others feel about this, but on the server fast setupwould > it be possible to set the brake bias about 1% more forward ? > > The current fast setup has the brake bias set too far rearward, and I fear > we may have a lot of brake-induced spins today. It's really touchy... > > I tried the anti-lock brake option, but it's no good. You'll end up inthe

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> fence coming into the last turn because there isn't enough braking power. > > I think the Fast setup is pretty good, but I personally believe it needs > this one tweak to help us have a safer race. > > -Larry > >

Is that the "fast" RA setup you guys are using? It's completely undriveable imho - and who ever made it must have a very "alien" driving style. -- ed_

"Ed Solheim" wrote... > Is that the "fast" RA setup you guys are using? It's completely > undriveable imho - and who ever made it must have a very "alien" > driving style. Joachim Trenz... 'nuff said. <vbg> Jan. =---

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:19:15 +0100, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Is that the "fast" RA setup you guys are using? It's completely undriveable >imho - and who ever made it must have a very "alien" driving style. I heard it was made by a school bus driver. =) Jason

A little late to be changing it now? -Brian "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Z6cOb.3601$_H5.1744@lakeread06...

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> Actually, I just did some testing and changing it from the current 58% to > 60% completely transforms the car into something that is very manageable. > > I personally prefer about 61%, but that might be a bit much for some. I > HATE a loose rear end under braking, and NR2003 isn't the best at brake > modulation. > > I really do think that adjusting the pushed setup for the races to 60%

will

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> be better for everyone all around. > > Maybe we can test it during the practice race ? > > -Larry > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:YqbOb.3597$_H5.1931@lakeread06... > > Mitch, > > > > I don't know how others feel about this, but on the server fast setup > would > > it be possible to set the brake bias about 1% more forward ? > > > > The current fast setup has the brake bias set too far rearward, and I

fear > > we may have a lot of brake-induced spins today. It's really touchy... > > > > I tried the anti-lock brake option, but it's no good. You'll end up in > the > > fence coming into the last turn because there isn't enough brakingpower.

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> > > > I think the Fast setup is pretty good, but I personally believe it needs > > this one tweak to help us have a safer race. > > > > -Larry > > > > > >

While I do totally agree with you about the setup, at this point its just too late for a setup change. I dont think it would be fair for guys that spent time practicing. Personally Ive given up shooting for 1.06's and am going to settle for consistent 1.12's-13's and see what happens. Mitch "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YqbOb.3597$_H5.1931@lakeread06... > Mitch, > > I don't know how others feel about this, but on the server fast setupwould > it be possible to set the brake bias about 1% more forward ? > > The current fast setup has the brake bias set too far rearward, and I fear > we may have a lot of brake-induced spins today. It's really touchy... > > I tried the anti-lock brake option, but it's no good. You'll end up inthe

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> fence coming into the last turn because there isn't enough braking power. > > I think the Fast setup is pretty good, but I personally believe it needs > this one tweak to help us have a safer race. > > -Larry > >

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:19:15 +0100, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Is that the "fast" RA setup you guys are using? It's completely undriveable >imho - and who ever made it must have a very "alien" driving style. I find I usually have to tweak Achim's setups a bit, yes mainly in the brake bias area (I can live with 59% at most roadies-I loathe locking them up), but I also move the weight forward-how he can get away with all that rear weight is a conundrum to me. But his Monza setup gave me a big edge at Curva Grande in a recent league race. ;-) John DiFool

Larry wrote: > Mitch, > > I don't know how others feel about this, but on the server fast setup would > it be possible to set the brake bias about 1% more forward ? > ... > -Larry You guys run FIXED setups??? I'm curious; what's the idea behind doing so? -Greg

I think the setup is fantastic. I honestly haven't once got the feeling that the brake bias needed adjusting. His replay time on his stite is 107.7, and my best is a 108.4. Feels very stable and easy to drive IMO. From the first moment I tried it (last Sat. after RASCAR race), I thought it was a great setup. I posted a replay yesterday in case it might help http://home.comcast.net/~davegf/ drivers to see where they are losing time. It may feel good to me because I drive it like a modern F1 car, and F1C is a tremendous trainer for these TA races. In comparison, the TA cars feel like they are in slow motion. David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Is that the "fast" RA setup you guys are using? It's completelyundriveable > imho - and who ever made it must have a very "alien" driving style. > > -- > ed_ > >

jason moyer wrote: ... > I heard it was made by a school bus driver. =) Yep, but he'll lap you with his schoolbus <g> Achim

Yep. -Larry "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Is that the "fast" RA setup you guys are using? It's completelyundriveable > imho - and who ever made it must have a very "alien" driving style. > > -- > ed_ > >

Not my call. Just bringing it up. -Larry "Brian Farmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VJdOb.1371$[email hidden]...

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> A little late to be changing it now? > > -Brian > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Z6cOb.3601$_H5.1744@lakeread06... > > Actually, I just did some testing and changing it from the current 58%

to > > 60% completely transforms the car into something that is verymanageable.

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> > > > I personally prefer about 61%, but that might be a bit much for some. I > > HATE a loose rear end under braking, and NR2003 isn't the best at brake > > modulation. > > > > I really do think that adjusting the pushed setup for the races to 60% > will > > be better for everyone all around. > > > > Maybe we can test it during the practice race ? > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:YqbOb.3597$_H5.1931@lakeread06... > > > Mitch, > > > > > > I don't know how others feel about this, but on the server fast setup > > would > > > it be possible to set the brake bias about 1% more forward ? > > > > > > The current fast setup has the brake bias set too far rearward, and I > fear > > > we may have a lot of brake-induced spins today. It's really touchy... > > > > > > I tried the anti-lock brake option, but it's no good. You'll end up

in > > the > > > fence coming into the last turn because there isn't enough braking > power. > > > > > > I think the Fast setup is pretty good, but I personally believe itneeds

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> > > this one tweak to help us have a safer race. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > >

Well, I've put 5 hours in, and I still can't control the rear lockups Should be interesting then.... -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DMdOb.11979$[email hidden]...

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> While I do totally agree with you about the setup, at this point its just > too late for a setup change. I dont think it would be fair for guys that > spent time practicing. > > Personally Ive given up shooting for 1.06's and am going to settle for > consistent 1.12's-13's and see what happens. > > Mitch

In article <ChfOb.37820$zs4.28775@fed1read01>, Greg Campbell <[email hidden]> writes: >You guys run FIXED setups??? >I'm curious; what's the idea behind doing so? To attempt to even out the field so that the guys who are 'setup-aware' won't totally run away with the race... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Swings and roundabouts Eldred. Some setups are impossible for one person to suit his driving style to whilst same setup will knock a second off another person's PB. Tonight, I had to drive a car that was undriveable for me, 1 or 2 seconds off my own pace whilst on the edge of reasonable control. This, despite practicing all week. Personally, I think it's a crazy situation when competent and experienced drivers are forced to use a car that is simply not possible to lap safely. There were several of those out there tonight. Hardly levelling the playing field IMHO. I for one, will not bother to turn up again for any particular track if it means having to fight a car to an uncompetitive grid position whilst endangering everybody else around me. Utter madness... Surely there are setups out there somewhere for the "setup challenged" to download. MS "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <ChfOb.37820$zs4.28775@fed1read01>, Greg Campbell<[email hidden]> > writes: > > >You guys run FIXED setups??? > >I'm curious; what's the idea behind doing so? > > To attempt to even out the field so that the guys who are 'setup-aware'won't

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> totally run away with the race... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 > ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 > Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Well, I for one would be stuck with trying to find one to download. I can barely tweak oval setups... I wouldn't know where to begin on an RC setup. I haven't found the setups we have been using to be all that bad... too me they seem very stable and more over, this mod is incredibly forgiving compared to the cup cars. You can really get the car sideways and still save it. If we go with open sets, that is fine, however, we need to turn off driving aids if we do. I don't give a damn what the patch was supposed to fix, I still think that driving aids give an advantage especially with open sets. Brian Oster On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:24:12 +0000 (UTC), "Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Swings and roundabouts Eldred. > >Some setups are impossible for one person to suit his driving style to >whilst same setup will knock a second off another person's PB. Tonight, I >had to drive a car that was undriveable for me, 1 or 2 seconds off my own >pace whilst on the edge of reasonable control. This, despite practicing all >week. Personally, I think it's a crazy situation when competent and >experienced drivers are forced to use a car that is simply not possible to >lap safely. There were several of those out there tonight. Hardly levelling >the playing field IMHO. > >I for one, will not bother to turn up again for any particular track if it >means having to fight a car to an uncompetitive grid position whilst >endangering everybody else around me. Utter madness... > >Surely there are setups out there somewhere for the "setup challenged" to >download. > >MS > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <ChfOb.37820$zs4.28775@fed1read01>, Greg Campbell ><[email hidden]> >> writes: >> >> >You guys run FIXED setups??? >> >I'm curious; what's the idea behind doing so? >> >> To attempt to even out the field so that the guys who are 'setup-aware' >won't >> totally run away with the race... >> >> Eldred >> -- >> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >> Member >> Screamers Racing League >> IICC League >> GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 >> ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 >> Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress >> N2k3 rank:in progress >> >> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. >

"Brian Oster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... [snip]

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> If we go with open sets, that is fine, however, we need to turn off > driving aids if we do. I don't give a damn what the patch was > supposed to fix, I still think that driving aids give an advantage > especially with open sets. > > Brian Oster >

To be honest, I'm only here for the fixed setups - it's what differentiates us from and other leagues. It also means that on a tough weekend I'm still OK as long as I have half an hour as all I have to do is get used to the setup - no tweaking time needed. I do agree that last night's setup would have been difficult for some - perhaps we should appoint a 'Mr. Average' to come up with a setup that will suit most - I wouldn't mind that. I would mind open setups. If we go open and I stay, then I think we would definitely have to go hardcore otherwise it becomes silly. Regards

"Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bucn7s$cmh$[email hidden]:

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> Swings and roundabouts Eldred. > > Some setups are impossible for one person to suit his driving style to > whilst same setup will knock a second off another person's PB. > Tonight, I had to drive a car that was undriveable for me, 1 or 2 > seconds off my own pace whilst on the edge of reasonable control. > This, despite practicing all week. Personally, I think it's a crazy > situation when competent and experienced drivers are forced to use a > car that is simply not possible to lap safely. There were several of > those out there tonight. Hardly levelling the playing field IMHO. > > I for one, will not bother to turn up again for any particular track > if it means having to fight a car to an uncompetitive grid position > whilst endangering everybody else around me. Utter madness... > > Surely there are setups out there somewhere for the "setup challenged" > to download. > > MS

I dont think the problem lies with being a fixed league. Remember the fast setup for Glen/Sears? They are both very drivable for all of us. The problem at RA was we had nothing but an alien setup to use. I too had to adapt to this setup, had to set my mind to not shift/brake the car when turning, because that ment an immediate loop for me. (of course I didnt succeed at this :) cheers jurjen

"Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > I for one, will not bother to turn up again for any particular track if it > means having to fight a car to an uncompetitive grid position whilst > endangering everybody else around me. Utter madness... > ditto

> >You guys run FIXED setups??? > >I'm curious; what's the idea behind doing so? > > To attempt to even out the field so that the guys who are 'setup-aware' won't > totally run away with the race... > Instead the guys who's style matches the choosen setup run away. You don't have to be setup aware to be compative in an open setup race, you just have to know how to download from somebody who is.

AFAIK we are going to remain a fixed league. The TA mod is unique in that it doesnt include basic well rounded setups. When we get back to the Cup schedule we will use the expert setups that are readily available. So basically what youre saying is you have a source for downloading good setups that will give YOU the advantage based on a setup vs driving ability yet somehow this is more fair than everyone with the same setup? This gets to the root of my main issues with Papy's NRxxxx. The guys that know the setup cheats almost always win. I absolutely dont believe in using any setup that takes advantage of the games physics engine flaws in an unrealistic manner and the only way to prevent that is run fixed setups. If you don't have a handle on any particular setup then PRACTICE with it. I can (almost) gaurantee that if you turn a 100 laps at any track with any setup that you will be able to find the limit and to run laps safely during the race. On the flip side if you jump into a bad setup and run it like you do your good setup then yea youre going to have problems. I'm really not seeing the logic of your statements. We all use the same setup but some guys (based on luck or what?) have an advantage because that particular setup matches his style. Yet in the same paragraph you say its more fair to run open setups because guys can just go download a good setup? Mitch "mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > Instead the guys who's style matches the choosen setup run away. > > You don't have to be setup aware to be compative in an open setup > race, you just have to know how to download from somebody who is.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:54:45 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: >AFAIK we are going to remain a fixed league. The TA mod is unique in that >it doesnt include basic well rounded setups. When we get back to the Cup >schedule we will use the expert setups that are readily available. I whole-heartedly agree with that decision. Even the expert setups are not that *expert*. They are still incredibly tight... just not quite as bad as the Fast setups. Another fixed league I race in runs opens sets on the plate tracks where driving skill has very little to do with where you finish. If you are having problems with the setups we are using for the TA mod, do what I do, back off just a tad. I was one of the slowest guys out there Sat., but by simply racing the track, being patient and careful I ended up with a 2nd. Even if Neil and Ginger wouldn't have had problems I would have ended up 4th... I certainly didn't get that by being 4th fastest. I think we should stick with the setups we have been using, it gives the RC aces a chance to show their stuff. Oh and one other thing. A lot of times I will download a setup that seems to be over my ability. So I practice and start tweaking and after a lot of practice and a lot of tweaking I usually find myself back to the original set... the practice made the difference and made what I thought was a hard set a very stable one, after I got used to it. No substitute for practice. Brian Oster

> AFAIK we are going to remain a fixed league. So it's MitchCAR? ;) Not saying change it on my account, but I'm suggesting it's worth considering as I'm obviously not the only one complaining. > The TA mod is unique in that > it doesnt include basic well rounded setups. When we get back to the Cup > schedule we will use the expert setups that are readily available. >Consider me gone till then at least. > So basically what youre saying is you have a source for downloading good > setups that will give YOU the advantage based on a setup vs drivingability > yet somehow this is more fair than everyone with the same setup? Nope but I can spend a few minutes modifing the ones that came with the game to suit my style and abilities, or I can leverage on some kind sole who has similar style and maybe a better understanding of the game physics and more time/patience to develop the setup. And of course they'd only give ME the advantage if I was the only one able to surf the net.... Without the ability to tune the car we might as well be running on playstations. > This gets > to the root of my main issues with Papy's NRxxxx. The guys that know the > setup cheats almost always win. Not been my experience with GPL, there are 1000's of resources available, are they all realistic, of course not, but they're open to everybody. > > If you don't have a handle on any particular setup then PRACTICE with it.I > can (almost) gaurantee that if you turn a 100 laps at any track with any > setup that you will be able to find the limit and to run laps safelyduring > the race. On the flip side if you jump into a bad setup and run it likeyou > do your good setup then yea youre going to have problems. Of course if I had time for 100 laps practice I'd be able to drive around any setup problems, but an hour or 2 a week is all I can afford practice wise and this week less. This is an enjoyable pass time not my life. > particular setup matches his style. Yet in the same paragraph you say its > more fair to run open setups because guys can just go download a goodsetup? >Never said more fair, just more fun. Natural talent and hours of practice will always rise to the top open or fixed.

In article <budoc3$oq9$[email hidden]>, "Neil Charlton" <[email hidden]> writes: >If we go open and I stay, then I think we would definitely have to go >hardcore otherwise it becomes silly. Why's that? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

It would be MitchCAR had I said "We're NOW using OPEN setups" alone without consent. Would MitchCAR last long? I doubt it. Just because Im doing some of the administrative duties doesnt mean Im making decisions alone or on a veto basis. Im just goin with the flow with the only goal to make if fair and fun. One thing is certain though, it's going to take more than you and one or two guys to sway RASCAR on such a major change as going to Open sets. In fact I'd say it would take a vast majority. Whats happening now in TA (setup changes etc) is only because its winter league and now is time to test/experiment with things for next year. I think the problem with these setups is being overstated personally but agian who am I. We all drive the same thing so how again is it less fair for anyone? Mitch "Art McEwen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b%EOb.2623$[email hidden]...

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> > AFAIK we are going to remain a fixed league. > > So it's MitchCAR? ;) > > Not saying change it on my account, but I'm suggesting it's worth > considering as I'm obviously not the only one complaining. > > > The TA mod is unique in that > > it doesnt include basic well rounded setups. When we get back to the

Cup

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> > schedule we will use the expert setups that are readily available. > > > Consider me gone till then at least. > > > So basically what youre saying is you have a source for downloading good > > setups that will give YOU the advantage based on a setup vs driving > ability > > yet somehow this is more fair than everyone with the same setup? > > Nope but I can spend a few minutes modifing the ones that came with the

game > to suit my style and abilities, or I can leverage on some kind sole whohas > similar style and maybe a better understanding of the game physics andmore

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> time/patience to develop the setup. And of course they'd only give ME the > advantage if I was the only one able to surf the net.... > > Without the ability to tune the car we might as well be running on > playstations. > > > This gets > > to the root of my main issues with Papy's NRxxxx. The guys that know

the

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> > setup cheats almost always win. > > Not been my experience with GPL, there are 1000's of resources available, > are they all realistic, of course not, but they're open to everybody. > > > > > If you don't have a handle on any particular setup then PRACTICE with

it.

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> I > > can (almost) gaurantee that if you turn a 100 laps at any track with any > > setup that you will be able to find the limit and to run laps safely > during > > the race. On the flip side if you jump into a bad setup and run it like > you > > do your good setup then yea youre going to have problems. > > Of course if I had time for 100 laps practice I'd be able to drive around > any setup problems, but an hour or 2 a week is all I can afford practice > wise and this week less. This is an enjoyable pass time not my life. > > > > particular setup matches his style. Yet in the same paragraph you say

its > > more fair to run open setups because guys can just go download a good > setup? > > > Never said more fair, just more fun. Natural talent and hours ofpractice > will always rise to the top open or fixed. > >

> If you are having problems with the setups we are using for the TA > mod, do what I do, back off just a tad. I tried that when I started offline practice but it was screwing up my rythum so much (I think because it was bottoming out) that I ended up stiffing it just so I could drive 5 laps cleanly, figuring I'd go back to the fixed one once I'd found my way. I'd do that for a few minutes then go back to the fast and either get behind in the stearing in the esses (there may have been a frame rate issue there too) or bottom out under braking at the end of the straight, then go back to my setup for 10 laps get my confidence back up, then back to the one I couldn't drive and be right in the same boat. After a while it became not-fun, and THAT I can get at work. I'm just saying I haven't heard a convincing argument in the evil of open setups. Sure some of them are un-natural and "unrealistic" but come on we're trying to simulate $100,000 race cars on a $1,000 PC with a 2D monitor with $25 software! > No substitute for practice. You're right of course, but it's a lot easier to practice if you're enjoying ourselves and after all isn't that the point?

I don't think the arguement against open sets are that they are "evil", or "unrealistic". We have allways been a fixed league. Generally open setups are used in more advanced leagues and are considered harder. If we ran open sets here, the disparity between the top drivers and the middle to low end drivers would be even greater. I don't think open sets are bad even when they are sometimes unrealistic, and if I had more time, I would most certainly join an open set league. I just don't think they are right for RASCAR. If RASCAR had two divisions (I am not say we should, just using it as an example) where new people started in the fixed league and then graduated to the next level, that next level would probably be an open set league. Like Mitch said, once we get back to cup the setups we will be using are much more *novice* and this whole issue will be a moot point. Brian Oster On 19 Jan 2004 07:05:08 -0800, [email hidden] (mcewena) wrote:

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>> If you are having problems with the setups we are using for the TA >> mod, do what I do, back off just a tad. > >I tried that when I started offline practice but it was screwing up my >rythum so much (I think because it was bottoming out) that I ended up >stiffing it just so I could drive 5 laps cleanly, figuring I'd go back >to the fixed one once I'd found my way. I'd do that for a few minutes >then go back to the fast and either get behind in the stearing in the >esses (there may have been a frame rate issue there too) or bottom out >under braking at the end of the straight, then go back to my setup for >10 laps get my confidence back up, then back to the one I couldn't >drive and be right in the same boat. After a while it became >not-fun, and THAT I can get at work. > >I'm just saying I haven't heard a convincing argument in the evil of >open setups. Sure some of them are un-natural and "unrealistic" but >come on we're trying to simulate $100,000 race cars on a $1,000 PC >with a 2D monitor with $25 software! > > >> No substitute for practice. > >You're right of course, but it's a lot easier to practice if you're >enjoying ourselves and after all isn't that the point?

Just to add to that, we have never (that I can remember) had this debate when running cup cars. I am sure that if it had been an issue all last season and it seemed the majority wanted to change it, it would have been put to a vote some where along the way. In reality, it has only surfaced with the TA mod where there are few setups and the ones that do exist, some seem to think are too hard. I think if we went to open sets we would find a hell of a lot more problems than we do now. Our league, at present, is not geared twards an open set league. Brian Oster On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 04:03:41 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>It would be MitchCAR had I said "We're NOW using OPEN setups" alone without >consent. Would MitchCAR last long? I doubt it. Just because Im doing some >of the administrative duties doesnt mean Im making decisions alone or on a >veto basis. Im just goin with the flow with the only goal to make if fair >and fun. One thing is certain though, it's going to take more than you and >one or two guys to sway RASCAR on such a major change as going to Open sets. >In fact I'd say it would take a vast majority. > >Whats happening now in TA (setup changes etc) is only because its winter >league and now is time to test/experiment with things for next year. I >think the problem with these setups is being overstated personally but agian >who am I. We all drive the same thing so how again is it less fair for >anyone? > >Mitch > > >"Art McEwen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:b%EOb.2623$[email hidden]... >> > AFAIK we are going to remain a fixed league. >> >> So it's MitchCAR? ;) >> >> Not saying change it on my account, but I'm suggesting it's worth >> considering as I'm obviously not the only one complaining. >> >> > The TA mod is unique in that >> > it doesnt include basic well rounded setups. When we get back to the >Cup >> > schedule we will use the expert setups that are readily available. >> > >> Consider me gone till then at least. >> >> > So basically what youre saying is you have a source for downloading good >> > setups that will give YOU the advantage based on a setup vs driving >> ability >> > yet somehow this is more fair than everyone with the same setup? >> >> Nope but I can spend a few minutes modifing the ones that came with the >game >> to suit my style and abilities, or I can leverage on some kind sole who >has >> similar style and maybe a better understanding of the game physics and >more >> time/patience to develop the setup. And of course they'd only give ME the >> advantage if I was the only one able to surf the net.... >> >> Without the ability to tune the car we might as well be running on >> playstations. >> >> > This gets >> > to the root of my main issues with Papy's NRxxxx. The guys that know >the >> > setup cheats almost always win. >> >> Not been my experience with GPL, there are 1000's of resources available, >> are they all realistic, of course not, but they're open to everybody. >> >> > >> > If you don't have a handle on any particular setup then PRACTICE with >it. >> I >> > can (almost) gaurantee that if you turn a 100 laps at any track with any >> > setup that you will be able to find the limit and to run laps safely >> during >> > the race. On the flip side if you jump into a bad setup and run it like >> you >> > do your good setup then yea youre going to have problems. >> >> Of course if I had time for 100 laps practice I'd be able to drive around >> any setup problems, but an hour or 2 a week is all I can afford practice >> wise and this week less. This is an enjoyable pass time not my life. >> >> >> > particular setup matches his style. Yet in the same paragraph you say >its >> > more fair to run open setups because guys can just go download a good >> setup? >> > >> Never said more fair, just more fun. Natural talent and hours of >practice >> will always rise to the top open or fixed. >> >> >

Brian Oster wrote: ... > the ones that do exist, some seem to think are too hard. I think if > we went to open sets we would find a hell of a lot more problems than > we do now. Our league, at present, is not geared twards an open set > league. I've put a vote up at my website, whether people want my original setups, or whether I should return to my previous policy of tuning them down a little for driveability. Maybe the majority indeed wants them a little easier to drive, I wouldn't mind tweaking them some for driveability, it's only a few mouseclicks. Achim

In article <b%EOb.2623$[email hidden]>, "Art McEwen" <[email hidden]> writes: >Nope but I can spend a few minutes modifing the ones that came with the game >to suit my style and abilities, or I can leverage on some kind sole who has >similar style and maybe a better understanding of the game physics and more >time/patience to develop the setup. And of course they'd only give ME the >advantage if I was the only one able to surf the net.... I've discovered that you can't always count on being able to find a setup that's good for your style. Even setups by the same guy have major differences. I can drive Ehnstrom's setups just great at a few tracks. At others, running his setup had me sliding backwards as much as forwards. Those of us without setup skill are basically at the mercy and luck of what you happen to find... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <budoc3$oq9$[email hidden]>, "Neil Charlton" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >If we go open and I stay, then I think we would definitely have to go > >hardcore otherwise it becomes silly. > > Why's that? > > Eldred

[snip] What I like about RASCAR is the level playing field. Although things have much improved, you can still do silly things with setups if you have aids turned on. There is also a very wide speed range at the moment and I fear that open setups would accentuate that difference. It may be we would even need to think of two divisions. The real point is though that I love RASCAR for what it is at present, an almost unique fixed setup series with some great guys on board. I would hate to see it become 'just another league'. In terms of traditional leagues, the 3 divisions of FFRL give me all the challenge I need (and then some) but I still love RASCAR because it is so different. In short, if it ain't broke, stop keep fixing it. Regards

Brian Oster <[email hidden]> wrote in message > If RASCAR had two divisions Essentially you already have 3 now, T/A, truck and cup (when do you have to start calling it nextel btw?), perhaps what works for 1 doesn't always work for all 3. For instance you're not running yellows or damage.... I'm greatful for the fixed setup format on the speedways as I found the base one easy to use and the learning curve for me is steep enough on ovals as it is (pit stops, running in a draft, signalling other cars etc..). But I submit handling characteristics are more of a factor on a track with 13 turns then on one with 4 (maybe that's my road course snobery speaking and not actual knowledge).

The great and speedy Neil spoke: What I like about RASCAR is the level playing field. Although things have much improved, you can still do silly things with setups if you have aids turned on. There is also a very wide speed range at the moment and I fear that open setups would accentuate that difference. ------------------------ I thought the reason we started RASCAR, was we all wanted a place to race. It was easier to do fixed setups, because it meant we didn't have to practice to much, we had a setup already in place, and it kept the aliens fairly close to us mere mortals. It was an easy going, lets get together and race, without the nitwit children of the Sierra open races, and we all presumably had experience with online racing and knew enough to drive cleanly. I think we've managed to accomplish what was started and have pretty much kept it that way. Let's stay with fixed setups. When we get back to the ovals (gak!) we will have the fast setups to use. We are all used to those by now, right? ZZRichard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ??

[email hidden] (mcewena) wrote in news:[email hidden]: > There are literally dozens of TA/TPTCC based leagues popping up all over. If you want to run in an open league...just go searching. RASCAR is what is has been and will be. A place to run without the hassles often associated with other leagues. dave henrie

EldredP wrote: > that's good for your style. Even setups by the same guy have major > differences. I can drive Ehnstrom's setups just great at a few tracks. At > others, running his setup had me sliding backwards as much as forwards. Yep, same for me. I used one of RE's at Spa back in the day and found it pretty controllable. Later on, I tried one of his at Zandvoort and aged about 5 years in one lap, trying to keep it on the black stuff. The rear end was all over the place, the front end went everywhere (especially those I wasn't too keen at) and the middle bit had me sitting in a puddle of cold sweat, wondering when the first heart attack would hit. Man, was that twitchy. I guess he developed that when he was already deep in extraterrestrial territory... Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -21)

Very well said ZZ !! A standing ovation :) Dan

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>I thought the reason we started RASCAR, was we all wanted a place to race. >It was easier to do fixed setups, because it meant we didn't have to >practice to much, we had a setup already in place, and it kept the aliens >fairly close to us mere mortals. It was an easy going, lets get together and >race, without the nitwit children of the Sierra open races, and we all >presumably had experience with online racing and knew enough to drive >cleanly. >I think we've managed to accomplish what was started and have pretty much >kept it that way. >Let's stay with fixed setups. When we get back to the ovals (gak!) we will >have the fast setups to use. We are all used to those by now, right? > >ZZRichard "ZZ" Busch > >Member: >Screamers Racing League >OAO >CORS >MARA TransAm >RASCAR >GPL Rank + 17.415 >MoGPL Rank + 318.586 >N2002 Rank + 7.695 >TransAm Rank ??

I agree. "Bamadano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Very well said ZZ !! A standing ovation :) > Dan > > >I thought the reason we started RASCAR, was we all wanted a place torace. > >It was easier to do fixed setups, because it meant we didn't have to > >practice to much, we had a setup already in place, and it kept the aliens > >fairly close to us mere mortals. It was an easy going, lets get togetherand > >race, without the nitwit children of the Sierra open races, and we all > >presumably had experience with online racing and knew enough to drive > >cleanly. > >I think we've managed to accomplish what was started and have pretty much > >kept it that way. > >Let's stay with fixed setups. When we get back to the ovals (gak!) wewill

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> >have the fast setups to use. We are all used to those by now, right? > > > >ZZRichard "ZZ" Busch > > > >Member: > >Screamers Racing League > >OAO > >CORS > >MARA TransAm > >RASCAR > >GPL Rank + 17.415 > >MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > >N2002 Rank + 7.695 > >TransAm Rank ?? > > >