RASCAR Sebring Results

Congratulations to Neil and the podium. Track: Sebring International Raceway Date: 01/24/04 Session: Practice P # DRIVER TIME 1 19 DaveGF 1:59.850 2 6 Neil__C 1:59.907 3 15 bfarmer 2:00.076 4 7 Dick-Trickle 2:00.440 5 27 BOster 2:00.968 6 103 JurjenvanderLelij 2:01.694 7 4 seery 2:02.633 8 1 Mitch_A 2:02.713 9 12 Haqsau 2:03.253 10 49 ZZBusch 2:03.254 11 66 s_brunt 2:03.897 12 17 j_verschue_RAS 2:05.170 13 5 LTB-Racer 2:06.006 14 03 ShepherdRAS 2:06.420 15 39 jsterner 2:07.272 16 42 bluestringer 2:08.556 17 318 joonjoonli 2:10.562 Weather: Clear, 70 �F, North 0 mph Session: Qualifying P # DRIVER TIME 1 7 Dick-Trickle 1:59.437 2 19 DaveGF 1:59.512 3 27 BOster 2:00.771 4 103 JurjenvanderLelij 2:03.299 5 66 s_brunt 2:03.383 6 1 Mitch_A 2:04.188 7 17 j_verschue_RAS 2:05.137 8 12 Haqsau 2:05.215 9 03 ShepherdRAS 2:05.631 10 4 seery 2:05.715 11 39 jsterner 2:06.698 12 5 LTB-Racer 2:09.942 13 6 Neil__C 2:15.108 14 2 tpaullin 2:18.235 15 15 bfarmer -- 16 42 bluestringer -- 17 320 TNA Loan -- 18 49 ZZBusch -- 19 318 joonjoonli -- Weather: Clear, 70 �F, North 0 mph Session: Happy Hour P # DRIVER TIME 1 103 JurjenvanderLelij 2:02.352 2 4 seery 2:04.498 3 1 Mitch_A 2:04.648 4 2 tpaullin 2:06.669 5 42 bluestringer 2:10.609 6 320 TNA Loan 2:16.826 Weather: Clear, 70 �F, North 0 mph Session: Race OFFICIAL STANDINGS F S # DRIVER INTERVAL LAPS LED POINTS STATUS 1 13 6 Neil__C 107.691 38 14 180 Running 2 1 7 Dick-Trickle -18.26 38 24* 180 Running 3 17 320 TNA Loan -21.43 38 0 165 Running 4 3 27 BOster -36.96 38 0 160 Running 5 15 15 bfarmer -1:54.73 38 0 155 Running 6 5 66 s_brunt -1L 37 0 150 Running 7 2 19 DaveGF -1L 37 0 146 Running 8 7 17 j_verschue_RAS -1L 37 0 142 Running 9 18 49 ZZBusch -2L 36 0 138 Running 10 9 03 ShepherdRAS -2L 36 0 134 Running 11 16 42 bluestringer -3L 35 0 130 Running 12 10 4 seery -4L 34 0 127 Running 13 6 1 Mitch_A -15L 23 0 124 Accident 14 8 12 Haqsau -19L 19 0 121 Accident 15 14 2 tpaullin -31L 7 0 118 Accident 16 12 5 LTB-Racer -33L 5 0 115 Accident 17 11 39 jsterner -37L 1 0 112 Gearbox 18 19 318 joonjoonli -37L 1 0 109 Piston 19 4 103 JurjenvanderLelij -38L 0 0 106 Accident Caution Flags: 0 (0 laps) Lead Changes: 1 (2 drivers) Weather: Clear, 70 �F, North 0 mph Pitstop Frequency: 1x PENALTIES LAP # INFRACTION PENALTY 2 5 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane 6 5 Reckless driving DQ'd: Scoring is ended 11 4 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane 19 12 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane 25 7 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane

This was pretty much another one-lap-and-out for me, though I tried a couple of more before parking it. For anyone wondering why I went screaming past everyone on the first lap, at the last corner, on the inside lane with brakes locked and tires screaming, well, you can thank Dakota (my youngest Golden) for that one. It's hard to lift when a 100 pound dog crawls under your desk and crashes out on your right foot! -Larry "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Congratulations to Neil and the podium. > > Track: Sebring International Raceway > Date: 01/24/04 > > > Session: Practice > > P # DRIVER TIME > 1 19 DaveGF 1:59.850 > 2 6 Neil__C 1:59.907 > 3 15 bfarmer 2:00.076 > 4 7 Dick-Trickle 2:00.440 > 5 27 BOster 2:00.968 > 6 103 JurjenvanderLelij 2:01.694 > 7 4 seery 2:02.633 > 8 1 Mitch_A 2:02.713 > 9 12 Haqsau 2:03.253 > 10 49 ZZBusch 2:03.254 > 11 66 s_brunt 2:03.897 > 12 17 j_verschue_RAS 2:05.170 > 13 5 LTB-Racer 2:06.006 > 14 03 ShepherdRAS 2:06.420 > 15 39 jsterner 2:07.272 > 16 42 bluestringer 2:08.556 > 17 318 joonjoonli 2:10.562 > > > > Weather: Clear, 70 �F, North 0 mph > > > > Session: Qualifying > > P # DRIVER TIME > 1 7 Dick-Trickle 1:59.437 > 2 19 DaveGF 1:59.512 > 3 27 BOster 2:00.771 > 4 103 JurjenvanderLelij 2:03.299 > 5 66 s_brunt 2:03.383 > 6 1 Mitch_A 2:04.188 > 7 17 j_verschue_RAS 2:05.137 > 8 12 Haqsau 2:05.215 > 9 03 ShepherdRAS 2:05.631 > 10 4 seery 2:05.715 > 11 39 jsterner 2:06.698 > 12 5 LTB-Racer 2:09.942 > 13 6 Neil__C 2:15.108 > 14 2 tpaullin 2:18.235 > 15 15 bfarmer -- > 16 42 bluestringer -- > 17 320 TNA Loan -- > 18 49 ZZBusch -- > 19 318 joonjoonli -- > > > > Weather: Clear, 70 �F, North 0 mph > > > > Session: Happy Hour > > P # DRIVER TIME > 1 103 JurjenvanderLelij 2:02.352 > 2 4 seery 2:04.498 > 3 1 Mitch_A 2:04.648 > 4 2 tpaullin 2:06.669 > 5 42 bluestringer 2:10.609 > 6 320 TNA Loan 2:16.826 > > > > Weather: Clear, 70 �F, North 0 mph > > > > Session: Race > OFFICIAL STANDINGS > > F S # DRIVER INTERVAL LAPS LED POINTS STATUS > 1 13 6 Neil__C 107.691 38 14 180 Running > 2 1 7 Dick-Trickle -18.26 38 24* 180 Running > 3 17 320 TNA Loan -21.43 38 0 165 Running > 4 3 27 BOster -36.96 38 0 160 Running > 5 15 15 bfarmer -1:54.73 38 0 155 Running > 6 5 66 s_brunt -1L 37 0 150 Running > 7 2 19 DaveGF -1L 37 0 146 Running > 8 7 17 j_verschue_RAS -1L 37 0 142 Running > 9 18 49 ZZBusch -2L 36 0 138 Running > 10 9 03 ShepherdRAS -2L 36 0 134 Running > 11 16 42 bluestringer -3L 35 0 130 Running > 12 10 4 seery -4L 34 0 127 Running > 13 6 1 Mitch_A -15L 23 0 124 Accident > 14 8 12 Haqsau -19L 19 0 121 Accident > 15 14 2 tpaullin -31L 7 0 118 Accident > 16 12 5 LTB-Racer -33L 5 0 115 Accident > 17 11 39 jsterner -37L 1 0 112 Gearbox > 18 19 318 joonjoonli -37L 1 0 109 Piston > 19 4 103 JurjenvanderLelij -38L 0 0 106 Accident > > > > Caution Flags: 0 (0 laps) > Lead Changes: 1 (2 drivers) > Weather: Clear, 70 �F, North 0 mph > Pitstop Frequency: 1x > > > PENALTIES > LAP # INFRACTION PENALTY > 2 5 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane > 6 5 Reckless driving DQ'd: Scoring is ended > 11 4 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane > 19 12 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane > 25 7 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane > > > > >

I had quite a few incidents. On reviewing the replay I don't think I was at fault but OTOH some of them were those kind of racing incidents where there isn't much you can do. One thing I am a little bit peeved about though was getting tagged from behind by several different people. Not going to point fingers but I would like to say that it seems to me that if one is still 100 feet behind a guy when he reaches the braking zone that one is not close enough to attempt a pass. That happened to me more than once, someone who was not nearly close enough tried to dive bomb me going into 13, and they ended up putting me off the track. That really shouldn't happen. I'm not really mad because it turns out those guys had a pretty bad race themselves. The only reason I bring it up is because I think people need to exercise a little more patience at these kind of tracks. We can have close racing without the incidents if people will take the time to set up a pass properly. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:U7GQb.8701$_H5.1126@lakeread06... > This was pretty much another one-lap-and-out for me, though I tried acouple > of more before parking it. > > For anyone wondering why I went screaming past everyone on the first lap,at > the last corner, on the inside lane with brakes locked and tiresscreaming,

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> well, you can thank Dakota (my youngest Golden) for that one. > > It's hard to lift when a 100 pound dog crawls under your desk and crashes > out on your right foot! > > -Larry >

I think a some of this comes from the use of Anti-Lock brakes. NR2003 has the worst implementation of ABS I've ever seen. I toyed with it considerably during my practice days for this race due to the extreme tire wear issues, and decided that it was too risky for this exact reason. -Larry "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I had quite a few incidents. On reviewing the replay I don't think I wasat > fault but OTOH some of them were those kind of racing incidents wherethere > isn't much you can do. One thing I am a little bit peeved about thoughwas > getting tagged from behind by several different people. Not going topoint > fingers but I would like to say that it seems to me that if one is still100 > feet behind a guy when he reaches the braking zone that one is not close > enough to attempt a pass. That happened to me more than once, someone who > was not nearly close enough tried to dive bomb me going into 13, and they > ended up putting me off the track. That really shouldn't happen. I'm not > really mad because it turns out those guys had a pretty bad racethemselves.

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> The only reason I bring it up is because I think people need to exercise a > little more patience at these kind of tracks. We can have close racing > without the incidents if people will take the time to set up a pass > properly. > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:U7GQb.8701$_H5.1126@lakeread06... > > This was pretty much another one-lap-and-out for me, though I tried a > couple > > of more before parking it. > > > > For anyone wondering why I went screaming past everyone on the first

lap, > at > > the last corner, on the inside lane with brakes locked and tires > screaming, > > well, you can thank Dakota (my youngest Golden) for that one. > > > > It's hard to lift when a 100 pound dog crawls under your desk andcrashes > > out on your right foot! > > > > -Larry > > > >

I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are almost never in contact with the road. 15 Laps and my tires were so slippery, I had to stop. I think pit speed of 35 mph was quite silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok boys? Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a vote up on RSC forums, ok? -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ??

I honestly like the track. There were a lot of other issues, but once I got a rhythm going the track started to be a lot of fun. AFAIK high tire wear happens at this track in real life too. I think there were primarily two big problems. First we weren't able to settle on a setup with which everybody felt comfortable, and even that got picked very late, forcing people to adapt in the last few days before the race. Secondly the "ideal race line" for this track is incorrect. Not my opinion (I'm no expert) but based on real life in-car footage and discussions of the track I have read in books the race line was wrong, which meant a lot of people were trying to drive a non-ideal line, and a very uncomfortable one at that. In particular the line through most of the closely connected turns was not the way it is driven in real life, and that is exactly where people were having trouble. I tried to drive the correct line and to the degree that I was able to do it the track felt a lot more comfortable. "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... > I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are > almost never in contact with the road. > 15 Laps and my tires were so slippery, I had to stop. I think pit speed of > 35 mph was quite silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok boys? > > Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a voteup

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> on RSC forums, ok? > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > Member: > Screamers Racing League > OAO > CORS > MARA TransAm > RASCAR > GPL Rank + 17.415 > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > TransAm Rank ?? > > > >

I did ZZ. And no I hadnt run some of these tracks. What some of you seem to keep forgetting is that this is an experimental "Winter" series. We said that from the outset that we were going to experiment with a few things that we never would during the cup season. We did and we've learned allot from this experience. When we first made the RASCAR change I'd hoped we could use a more democratic process to decide issues like this. We tried it and it failed miserably. All we ended up with was 8-10 guys each with their own ideas that none of which ever seemed to materialize into anything other than talk. If you feel strongly about something then bring it up. We try as hard as we can to be as fair as possible to everyone. Mitch "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok boys? > > Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a voteup

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> on RSC forums, ok? > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > Member: > Screamers Racing League > OAO > CORS > MARA TransAm > RASCAR > GPL Rank + 17.415 > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > TransAm Rank ?? > > > >

One thing I want to bring up Hal after reading this. WE DONT RACE TO THE FIRST CORNER...... You and S_Brunt both made extrememly dangerous moves that were ILLEGAL on the start passing no less than 3 cars each before we reached the kink. Rules violations. If you arent clear on the rules at this point then we have a problem. If youre not sure then ASK but this is the last time I see this before action will be taken. Youre complaining about guys making mistakes while passing yet in my eyes that start manouvre you and Steve made was much worse as it broke the rules. This isnt a pickup race. We dont have many rules and what rules we do have were pretty lax about but this kinda crap has to stop. We have guys going into lap1 T1 like its the last fn lap of the race and the rules were put in place to stop this. I didnt make up the rule alone. Its an agreed upon rule and must be obeyed period. We have a couple guys that are just showing up occasionally and racing like the OLD RASCAR. If you cant drive with respect to other drivers then dont show up for RASCAR races. This may sound like Im pointing a finger Hal but Im not. This is for ALL drivers. Mitch "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I had quite a few incidents. On reviewing the replay I don't think I wasat > fault but OTOH some of them were those kind of racing incidents wherethere > isn't much you can do. One thing I am a little bit peeved about thoughwas > getting tagged from behind by several different people. Not going topoint > fingers but I would like to say that it seems to me that if one is still100 > feet behind a guy when he reaches the braking zone that one is not close > enough to attempt a pass. That happened to me more than once, someone who > was not nearly close enough tried to dive bomb me going into 13, and they > ended up putting me off the track. That really shouldn't happen. I'm not > really mad because it turns out those guys had a pretty bad racethemselves.

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> The only reason I bring it up is because I think people need to exercise a > little more patience at these kind of tracks. We can have close racing > without the incidents if people will take the time to set up a pass > properly. > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:U7GQb.8701$_H5.1126@lakeread06... > > This was pretty much another one-lap-and-out for me, though I tried a > couple > > of more before parking it. > > > > For anyone wondering why I went screaming past everyone on the first

lap, > at > > the last corner, on the inside lane with brakes locked and tires > screaming, > > well, you can thank Dakota (my youngest Golden) for that one. > > > > It's hard to lift when a 100 pound dog crawls under your desk andcrashes > > out on your right foot! > > > > -Larry > > > >

"Haqsau" wrote... > <snip> We can have close racing without the incidents > if people will take the time to set up a pass properly. Seconded. On the other hand some of the drivers don't get a lot of practise at road racing and both track and setup were not conductive to straight, controlled braking. BTW: the incident at Le Mans I accused Brian Oster of, was a practise incident. So that was a little uncalled for and I apologise. Jan. =---

Point taken. I remember some discussion about this but I didn't think it had ever been settled. And it looked to me like people were racing to the first corner on the first start so I didn't question it. Still, I should have known better. I wondered why the pace wasn't picking up after it went green on the restart. Total brain fade. I apologize to all. "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KxSQb.15660$[email hidden]... > One thing I want to bring up Hal after reading this. > > WE DONT RACE TO THE FIRST CORNER...... You and S_Brunt both madeextrememly > dangerous moves that were ILLEGAL on the start passing no less than 3 cars > each before we reached the kink. Rules violations. If you arent clear on > the rules at this point then we have a problem. If youre not sure thenASK > but this is the last time I see this before action will be taken. > > Youre complaining about guys making mistakes while passing yet in my eyes > that start manouvre you and Steve made was much worse as it broke therules. > This isnt a pickup race. > > We dont have many rules and what rules we do have were pretty lax aboutbut > this kinda crap has to stop. > > We have guys going into lap1 T1 like its the last fn lap of the race andthe > rules were put in place to stop this. I didnt make up the rule alone.Its > an agreed upon rule and must be obeyed period. > > We have a couple guys that are just showing up occasionally and racinglike

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> the OLD RASCAR. If you cant drive with respect to other drivers then dont > show up for RASCAR races. > > This may sound like Im pointing a finger Hal but Im not. This is for ALL > drivers. > > Mitch > >

I viewed the replay and I have to take exception to your accusation. I don't see how I could have done a cleaner start. Please fill me in on what I did wrong. I qualified 5th and entered the 1st corner in 5th. I did pass the 103 car on the outside going into the turn because his slow speed made it safer to pass. I feel I left plenty of room. To say I passed 3 cars before the 1st turn is just plain not true. Steve > WE DONT RACE TO THE FIRST CORNER...... You and S_Brunt both madeextrememly > dangerous moves that were ILLEGAL on the start passing no less than 3 cars > each before we reached the kink. Rules violations. If you arent clear on > the rules at this point then we have a problem. If youre not sure thenASK > but this is the last time I see this before action will be taken. > > Youre complaining about guys making mistakes while passing yet in my eyes > that start manouvre you and Steve made was much worse as it broke therules. > This isnt a pickup race. > > We dont have many rules and what rules we do have were pretty lax aboutbut > this kinda crap has to stop. > > We have guys going into lap1 T1 like its the last fn lap of the race andthe > rules were put in place to stop this. I didnt make up the rule alone.Its > an agreed upon rule and must be obeyed period. > > We have a couple guys that are just showing up occasionally and racinglike

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> the OLD RASCAR. If you cant drive with respect to other drivers then dont > show up for RASCAR races. > > This may sound like Im pointing a finger Hal but Im not. This is for ALL > drivers. > > Mitch >

I did ZZ. And no I hadnt run some of these tracks. -------------------------- Sorry Mitch, I was just asking, not accusing. -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ??

Steve, On a different subject, please take a look at the replay of our incident on lap 2 from my cockpit view. From my point of view your car disappears off to my left before the bridge, that's why I thought it was safe to come through. Then it appears like you came across and chopped me. That's what I saw during the race and I didn't know any better until I watched the replay. I just watched it from your point of view and I never disappear from your mirror the whole time. From your point of view it looks like I was behind you and not giving you room. No doubt you were pissed and I apologize if that's what you thought happened. Again please look at it from my cockpit and I think it will be clear why I thought it was safe to pass. To me it's just one of those racing things, I hope you can see it that way too. "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2jTQb.79567$[email hidden]... > I viewed the replay and I have to take exception to your accusation. Idon't > see how I could have done a cleaner start. Please fill me in on what I did > wrong. I qualified 5th and entered the 1st corner in 5th. I did pass the103 > car on the outside going into the turn because his slow speed made itsafer > to pass. I feel I left plenty of room. To say I passed 3 cars before the1st > turn is just plain not true. > > Steve >

In article <BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]>, "ZZ" <[email hidden]> writes: >I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are >almost never in contact with the road. Almost never in contact? What does THAT mean - you're always on the grass? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I dont have the replay Steve so what I said is based solely on what I saw from my position. I saw two yellow cars and tried to judge whom it was on my F2 screen. I came to the conclusion I did based on this info I had. I didnt know at that point where either of you actually started but I know it was either to my right or behind and you both passed myself and Jurjen. It isn't just about a "SAFE" pass. Its about MAKING the pass at the point you did. I know its a PITA for guys to slow down on the start and we end up just watching the leaders just pull away. Thats the way it has to be or else we'll continue with the first corner of the first lap pile ups. If you want to get up in the field on the first turn then qual better :) All I want is everyone to line up staggered .5 behind the guy in front of you and slowly increase speed based on whats happening in front of you. If the guy directly in front of you slows YOU ALSO MUST SLOW until weve gotten through the first 2-3 corners on RR and T1 on SS. What happened on Sat is the field bunched up a bit going into T1 as is normal and quite a few of us slowed as the rules state (to be safe), both you and Hal took advantage of that rule and made illegal passes on the others. Maybe it wasnt totally unsafe for you but it made it unsafe for everyone else around as we all had to mash the brakes and try to find a spot to fit as yall are 2-3 wide going into a very tight corner for no reason. Mitch "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2jTQb.79567$[email hidden]... > I viewed the replay and I have to take exception to your accusation. Idon't > see how I could have done a cleaner start. Please fill me in on what I did > wrong. I qualified 5th and entered the 1st corner in 5th. I did pass the103 > car on the outside going into the turn because his slow speed made itsafer > to pass. I feel I left plenty of room. To say I passed 3 cars before the1st > turn is just plain not true. > > Steve >

I think he meant that the tires bounce so much on those fake bumps that they rarely contact the ashpalt :) "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]>, "ZZ" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are > >almost never in contact with the road. > > Almost never in contact? What does THAT mean - you're always on the

grass?

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> > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Mitch, you definitely need to look at the replay from a couple different vantage points. You and Jurjen were way off pace, a whole line of cars ended up going around you. You guys slowed but the outside line did not. You even went outside on Jurjen yourself right in the middle of the turn. Granted I broke the rules and I will keep that in mind next time, but it appears that even you thought it was reasonable to make a pass in that situation. And btw when did it become "the first 2-3 corners"? In your previous post you said "WE DONT RACE TO THE FIRST CORNER". This kind of confusion over the rules is not helping. The discussion thread on the RASCAR site never came to a clear conclusion, and this thread is not clearing things up either. I'm not trying to make excuses, I know what I did was wrong, but I am trying to explain why these things happen - it is not clear yet exactly what the rule is. Also some exceptions need to be allowed for when someone is clearly off pace. Mechanical failures happen, as they did to me from the very start at LeMans. There should be room for a judgement call for when it is okay to go around someone. I was not at full throttle when I went around you guys, I was frankly taking it pretty easy. In RASF1 we tried the no-passing until T1 rule a couple of times, but we also said right up front that if someone blows the start, go around him. Seemed to work okay. Don't misunderstand me, I'm perfectly willing to obey the rules as long as I know what they are. Right now that does not seem clear. "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eIUQb.5805$[email hidden]... > I dont have the replay Steve so what I said is based solely on what I saw > from my position. I saw two yellow cars and tried to judge whom it was on > my F2 screen. I came to the conclusion I did based on this info I had. I > didnt know at that point where either of you actually started but I knowit > was either to my right or behind and you both passed myself and Jurjen. > > It isn't just about a "SAFE" pass. Its about MAKING the pass at the point > you did. I know its a PITA for guys to slow down on the start and we endup > just watching the leaders just pull away. Thats the way it has to be or > else we'll continue with the first corner of the first lap pile ups. Ifyou > want to get up in the field on the first turn then qual better :) > > All I want is everyone to line up staggered .5 behind the guy in front of > you and slowly increase speed based on whats happening in front of you.If > the guy directly in front of you slows YOU ALSO MUST SLOW until wevegotten

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> through the first 2-3 corners on RR and T1 on SS. > > What happened on Sat is the field bunched up a bit going into T1 as is > normal and quite a few of us slowed as the rules state (to be safe), both > you and Hal took advantage of that rule and made illegal passes on the > others. Maybe it wasnt totally unsafe for you but it made it unsafe for > everyone else around as we all had to mash the brakes and try to find a

spot > to fit as yall are 2-3 wide going into a very tight corner for no reason. > > Mitch > >

no apology needed. believe me Ive been kicking myself for picking htat track :) "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6STQb.111230$[email hidden]...

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> I did ZZ. > > And no I hadnt run some of these tracks. > > -------------------------- > Sorry Mitch, I was just asking, not accusing. > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > Member: > Screamers Racing League > OAO > CORS > MARA TransAm > RASCAR > GPL Rank + 17.415 > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > TransAm Rank ?? > > > >

Upon further review Steve I take back what I said about you being unsafe or making an illegal pass. Hal has already taken responsibility and his action may have contributed to Steve's decision at that moment. Sorry Steve for pointing a finger too hastily and great racin ya after the first lap mess :) Mitch "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eIUQb.5805$[email hidden]... > I dont have the replay Steve so what I said is based solely on what I saw > from my position. I saw two yellow cars and tried to judge whom it was on > my F2 screen. I came to the conclusion I did based on this info I had. I > didnt know at that point where either of you actually started but I knowit > was either to my right or behind and you both passed myself and Jurjen. > > It isn't just about a "SAFE" pass. Its about MAKING the pass at the point > you did. I know its a PITA for guys to slow down on the start and we endup > just watching the leaders just pull away. Thats the way it has to be or > else we'll continue with the first corner of the first lap pile ups. Ifyou > want to get up in the field on the first turn then qual better :) > > All I want is everyone to line up staggered .5 behind the guy in front of > you and slowly increase speed based on whats happening in front of you.If > the guy directly in front of you slows YOU ALSO MUST SLOW until wevegotten

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> through the first 2-3 corners on RR and T1 on SS. > > What happened on Sat is the field bunched up a bit going into T1 as is > normal and quite a few of us slowed as the rules state (to be safe), both > you and Hal took advantage of that rule and made illegal passes on the > others. Maybe it wasnt totally unsafe for you but it made it unsafe for > everyone else around as we all had to mash the brakes and try to find a

spot

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> to fit as yall are 2-3 wide going into a very tight corner for no reason. > > Mitch > > > "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:2jTQb.79567$[email hidden]... > > I viewed the replay and I have to take exception to your accusation. I > don't > > see how I could have done a cleaner start. Please fill me in on what I

did

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> > wrong. I qualified 5th and entered the 1st corner in 5th. I did pass the > 103 > > car on the outside going into the turn because his slow speed made it > safer > > to pass. I feel I left plenty of room. To say I passed 3 cars before the > 1st > > turn is just plain not true. > > > > Steve > > > >

Problem arises on these RR if we say T1 then guys dive bomb on the 2nd corner :) so were just trying to get everyone to show some respect for fellow drivers, especially the first lap. Why can't we just say take it ez on the entire first lap without getting into absolute specifics of which corner? I mean if a guys screws up and goes off track then pass him if its safe but dont force the issue till the field spreads out "JUST A BIT" is all. All were asking is that when you see a situation like that developing rather than contribute to it lift and stay behind the guy that out qualed you and if everyone else does we wont have a bunch of rear ended cars flipping uncontrollably :) If youre faster you will get that spot back, why does it need to be L1-T1 of a 50 lap race? Im mostly frustrated because we have to keep restarting every week after a lap 1 T1 multi car pileup. I REALLY hate to restart once the wheels are turnin but like others have said were in this for fun. Mitch "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Mitch, you definitely need to look at the replay from a couple different > vantage points. You and Jurjen were way off pace, a whole line of cars > ended up going around you. You guys slowed but the outside line did not. > You even went outside on Jurjen yourself right in the middle of the turn. > Granted I broke the rules and I will keep that in mind next time, but it > appears that even you thought it was reasonable to make a pass in that > situation. > > And btw when did it become "the first 2-3 corners"? In your previous post > you said "WE DONT RACE TO THE FIRST CORNER". This kind of confusion over > the rules is not helping. The discussion thread on the RASCAR site never > came to a clear conclusion, and this thread is not clearing things up > either. I'm not trying to make excuses, I know what I did was wrong, but

I > am trying to explain why these things happen - it is not clear yet exactly > what the rule is. > > Also some exceptions need to be allowed for when someone is clearly off > pace. Mechanical failures happen, as they did to me from the very startat > LeMans. There should be room for a judgement call for when it is okay togo > around someone. I was not at full throttle when I went around you guys, I > was frankly taking it pretty easy. In RASF1 we tried the no-passing until > T1 rule a couple of times, but we also said right up front that if someone > blows the start, go around him. Seemed to work okay. > > Don't misunderstand me, I'm perfectly willing to obey the rules as long asI > know what they are. Right now that does not seem clear. > >

In article <FxSQb.15659$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> I did ZZ. > > And no I hadnt run some of these tracks. > > When we first made the RASCAR change I'd hoped we could use a more > democratic process to decide issues like this. We tried it and it failed > miserably. All we ended up with was 8-10 guys each with their own ideas > that none of which ever seemed to materialize into anything other than talk. > If you feel strongly about something then bring it up. We try as hard as we > can to be as fair as possible to everyone.

Fuckin-A-dittybag, Mitch - you sound a lot like I did back when the defication came in contact with the rotating ocillator... Here's some things I learned about running leagues (before RASCAR): 0) A democracy just doesn't work - you're there to run things and keep folks' egos under your boot, not to be politicaly correct to every swingin' dick that thinks he wants to take over and run things with you as their butt-puppet. 1) There aren't enough people voicing their opinions to make it worth your while to even ask for opinions. 2) Nobody will like your decision no longer put it up for a vote, despite the obvious apathy by the majority of the participants, or the fact that some folks just feel the need to harangue you into doing it their way (the latter group can be a real pain in the ass and ultimately a destructive force in a league if not dealt with swiftly and harshly). 3) You end up being a target of criticism, and being accused of being a dictator because you don't appear to "care about anyone else's opinions". No amount of reminders (gentle or otherwise) that you gave them plenty of chances to participate in the voting will jog their memories. 4) These people stayed/joined on their own accord - you owe them nothing except a place in the roster. And here's one I learned IN RASCAR: 5) If trouble-makers won't quit, kick them out with much fanfare.

Thanks Mitch, We did indeed have an excellent and enjoyable battle going there for much of the race. I wondered what happened to slow you down. I know the feeling. In the second 1/2 of the race I fried my left front in an avoidance maneuver and then lost 3rd gear. Overall it was a decent race. Steve > Upon further review Steve I take back what I said about you being unsafeor > making an illegal pass. Hal has already taken responsibility and hisaction > may have contributed to Steve's decision at that moment. Sorry Steve for > pointing a finger too hastily and great racin ya after the first lap mess:) > > Mitch

In article <KxSQb.15660$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> writes: >WE DONT RACE TO THE FIRST CORNER...... You and S_Brunt both made extrememly >dangerous moves that were ILLEGAL on the start passing no less than 3 cars >each before we reached the kink. Rules violations. If you arent clear on >the rules at this point then we have a problem. I'm glad you said that - I hadn't realized that you now had a "no passing" rule... But how do you deal with the fact that some people make *lousy* starts, even though they may have qualified higher? The cars behind might lose 5 seconds or more by the time you get to the backstretch... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ahhhh, the ole John Simmons. Wondered what became of ya. Looks like you been a lurkin here like myself. Nice worm. Wonder if you will get any bites? Hows that hand doing? I pulled a John Simmons on my right index finger about a month ago. First time I ever amputated a part of my body. I hope it will be my last. That was my first mistake. My second was going to the emergency room and sitting by all those sick people for 4 hours while bleeding all my blood out. Must have lost at least a pint. Ended up catching a cold from he$$ that led into pneumonia. Almost done the ole grub in. I'm still coughing up some chunks that looks like green slime. The taste isn't all that bad though. Kinda salty. I shouldn't be swallowing it though because it gives me the monkey butt ("the runs"). Well time to soak the stub in some hyd-peroxide and down some more pain-killers. I got to watch that stuff. Makes me see some weird stuff. grub "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <FxSQb.15659$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > I did ZZ. > > > > And no I hadnt run some of these tracks. > > > > When we first made the RASCAR change I'd hoped we could use a more > > democratic process to decide issues like this. We tried it and it

failed > > miserably. All we ended up with was 8-10 guys each with their own ideas > > that none of which ever seemed to materialize into anything other thantalk. > > If you feel strongly about something then bring it up. We try as hardas we

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> > can to be as fair as possible to everyone. > > Fuckin-A-dittybag, Mitch - you sound a lot like I did back when the > defication came in contact with the rotating ocillator... > > Here's some things I learned about running leagues (before RASCAR): > > 0) A democracy just doesn't work - you're there to run things and keep > folks' egos under your boot, not to be politicaly correct to every > swingin' dick that thinks he wants to take over and run things with you > as their butt-puppet. > > 1) There aren't enough people voicing their opinions to make it worth > your while to even ask for opinions. > > 2) Nobody will like your decision no longer put it up for a vote, > despite the obvious apathy by the majority of the participants, or the > fact that some folks just feel the need to harangue you into doing it > their way (the latter group can be a real pain in the ass and ultimately > a destructive force in a league if not dealt with swiftly and harshly). > > 3) You end up being a target of criticism, and being accused of being a > dictator because you don't appear to "care about anyone else's > opinions". No amount of reminders (gentle or otherwise) that you gave > them plenty of chances to participate in the voting will jog their > memories. > > 4) These people stayed/joined on their own accord - you owe them nothing > except a place in the roster. > > And here's one I learned IN RASCAR: > > 5) If trouble-makers won't quit, kick them out with much fanfare. >

"grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ahhhh, the ole John Simmons. Wondered what became of ya. Looks like youbeen > a lurkin here like myself. > Nice worm. Wonder if you will get any bites? > Hows that hand doing? I pulled a John Simmons on my right index fingerabout > a month ago. First time I ever amputated a part of my body. I hope it will > be my last. > That was my first mistake. My second was going to the emergency room and > sitting by all those sick people for 4 hours while bleeding all my blood > out. Must have lost at least a pint. Ended up catching a cold from he$$that > led into pneumonia. Almost done the ole grub in. I'm still coughing upsome > chunks that looks like green slime. The taste isn't all that bad though. > Kinda salty. I shouldn't be swallowing it though because it gives me the > monkey butt ("the runs"). > Well time to soak the stub in some hyd-peroxide and down some more > pain-killers. I got to watch that stuff. Makes me see some weird stuff. > grub Nice to hear from you Grub. Sorry to hear about your misfortune, was wondering where you went. We have missed rubbing fenders with ya. Hope you get well and get back to racing with us soon. bluestringer

I wish I had an easy answer Eldred. We have to pick which of the two evils is more unfair, getting involved in a L1-T1 incident possibly ruining quite a few cars and ruining drivers day OR try to qual better and hope the guy in front of you and in front of him etc can get a decent start cleanly and then race like hell to make up any lost time either on track or with strategy. We race 55% races for TA. If youre faster you have plenty of time to make up 5+ seconds right? Heck we need handicap some of these freaks 30 seconds just ot make it semi-interestin :) Mitch "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <KxSQb.15660$[email hidden]>, > I'm gladyou said that - I hadn't realized that you now had a "no passing" > rule... > But how do you deal with the fact that some people make *lousy* starts,even > though they may have qualified higher? The cars behind might lose 5seconds or

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> more by the time you get to the backstretch... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Oh man Grub thats too fn bad. Our sympathies go out to ya bud. Hope to cya on the track soon Nubb errrr GRUB <g> someone had to go first hehe. Mitch "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ahhhh, the ole John Simmons. Wondered what became of ya. Looks like youbeen > a lurkin here like myself. > Nice worm. Wonder if you will get any bites? > Hows that hand doing? I pulled a John Simmons on my right index fingerabout > a month ago. First time I ever amputated a part of my body. I hope it will > be my last. > That was my first mistake. My second was going to the emergency room and > sitting by all those sick people for 4 hours while bleeding all my blood > out. Must have lost at least a pint. Ended up catching a cold from he$$that > led into pneumonia. Almost done the ole grub in. I'm still coughing upsome

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> chunks that looks like green slime. The taste isn't all that bad though. > Kinda salty. I shouldn't be swallowing it though because it gives me the > monkey butt ("the runs"). > Well time to soak the stub in some hyd-peroxide and down some more > pain-killers. I got to watch that stuff. Makes me see some weird stuff. > grub >

Now thats a scary thought John :) Seriously though Im not saying Im in charge of anything. Any decision goes through both Dave and I then we decide if we should put it up to everyone for the final decision. One thing to think about though Dave and I havent made many decisions alone since the original basic ruleset. The issues currently plaguing RASCAR re: setups/restarts is mainly because of the limitations of the TA mod and basic setups and some over anxious drivers neither of which is as big a deal as its coming out to be. When cup rolls around its back to biz as usual. As I hope Ive shown I agree with some of your ideas but still fundamentally disagree on ownership/administration of RASCAR. Thats ok though, disagreement is sometimes good. Although we do control the invite list I value the importance of this responsibilty and would never abuse it because of a personality conflict. To this point I dont think weve ever turned away anyone have we? Marco64 MAYBE lol. If someone wants to race in RASCAR and follows the procedure, drives respectfully (is slower than me j/k) will be put on the IL without hesitation. We just want to have fun racing. In this group we have groups of skilsets that seem to migrate to each other well giving everyone someone to race against. Isnt that on par with the original concept? Mitch "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Fuckin-A-dittybag, Mitch - you sound a lot like I did back when the

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> defication came in contact with the rotating ocillator... > > Here's some things I learned about running leagues (before RASCAR): > > 0) A democracy just doesn't work - you're there to run things and keep > folks' egos under your boot, not to be politicaly correct to every > swingin' dick that thinks he wants to take over and run things with you > as their butt-puppet. > > 1) There aren't enough people voicing their opinions to make it worth > your while to even ask for opinions. > > 2) Nobody will like your decision no longer put it up for a vote, > despite the obvious apathy by the majority of the participants, or the > fact that some folks just feel the need to harangue you into doing it > their way (the latter group can be a real pain in the ass and ultimately > a destructive force in a league if not dealt with swiftly and harshly). > > 3) You end up being a target of criticism, and being accused of being a > dictator because you don't appear to "care about anyone else's > opinions". No amount of reminders (gentle or otherwise) that you gave > them plenty of chances to participate in the voting will jog their > memories. > > 4) These people stayed/joined on their own accord - you owe them nothing > except a place in the roster. > > And here's one I learned IN RASCAR: > > 5) If trouble-makers won't quit, kick them out with much fanfare. >

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:52:57 -0500, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I think a some of this comes from the use of Anti-Lock brakes. NR2003 has >the worst implementation of ABS I've ever seen. I view this as a good thing. :) Brian Oster

I liked the track also. I didn't have any tire wear too speak of (until I looped it one lap, but that is to be expected). They did start to get slick around lap 20, but you just had to be easier on the brakes and gas. How many of you with tire wear issues were using driving aids? The patch did say that it would excelerate tire wear when using driving aids. Brian Oster On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:53:58 -0500, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I honestly like the track. There were a lot of other issues, but once I got >a rhythm going the track started to be a lot of fun. AFAIK high tire wear >happens at this track in real life too. I think there were primarily two >big problems. First we weren't able to settle on a setup with which >everybody felt comfortable, and even that got picked very late, forcing >people to adapt in the last few days before the race. Secondly the "ideal >race line" for this track is incorrect. Not my opinion (I'm no expert) but >based on real life in-car footage and discussions of the track I have read >in books the race line was wrong, which meant a lot of people were trying to >drive a non-ideal line, and a very uncomfortable one at that. In particular >the line through most of the closely connected turns was not the way it is >driven in real life, and that is exactly where people were having trouble. >I tried to drive the correct line and to the degree that I was able to do it >the track felt a lot more comfortable. > > >"ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... >> I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are >> almost never in contact with the road. >> 15 Laps and my tires were so slippery, I had to stop. I think pit speed of >> 35 mph was quite silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok boys? >> >> Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a vote >up >> on RSC forums, ok? >> >> -- >> Richard "ZZ" Busch >> >> Member: >> Screamers Racing League >> OAO >> CORS >> MARA TransAm >> RASCAR >> GPL Rank + 17.415 >> MoGPL Rank + 318.586 >> N2002 Rank + 7.695 >> TransAm Rank ?? >> >> >> >> >

I don't know why everyone is complaining about the track selection. I have not run ANY of the tracks before, not in the trucks or in TA or in gpl and I like all the tracks. I really don't know what we would have substituted.... ran Road Atlanta 12 times. Brian Oster On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:55:01 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I did ZZ. > >And no I hadnt run some of these tracks. > >What some of you seem to keep forgetting is that this is an experimental >"Winter" series. We said that from the outset that we were going to >experiment with a few things that we never would during the cup season. We >did and we've learned allot from this experience. > >When we first made the RASCAR change I'd hoped we could use a more >democratic process to decide issues like this. We tried it and it failed >miserably. All we ended up with was 8-10 guys each with their own ideas >that none of which ever seemed to materialize into anything other than talk. >If you feel strongly about something then bring it up. We try as hard as we >can to be as fair as possible to everyone. > >Mitch > > >"ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... >silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok boys? >> >> Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a vote >up >> on RSC forums, ok? >> >> -- >> Richard "ZZ" Busch >> >> Member: >> Screamers Racing League >> OAO >> CORS >> MARA TransAm >> RASCAR >> GPL Rank + 17.415 >> MoGPL Rank + 318.586 >> N2002 Rank + 7.695 >> TransAm Rank ?? >> >> >> >> >

Didn't you mean "...tires bounce so much on those fake bumps that they rarely contact the FAKE ashpalt" :) On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:24:08 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I think he meant that the tires bounce so much on those fake bumps that they >rarely contact the ashpalt :) > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]>, "ZZ" >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are >> >almost never in contact with the road. >> >> Almost never in contact? What does THAT mean - you're always on the >grass? >> >> Eldred >> -- >> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >> Member >> Screamers Racing League >> IICC League >> GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 >> ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71 >> Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress >> N2k3 rank:in progress >> >> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. >

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:07:32 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >Seconded. On the other hand some of the drivers don't get a lot of practise >at road racing and both track and setup were not conductive to straight, >controlled braking. > >BTW: the incident at Le Mans I accused Brian Oster of, was a practise >incident. So that was a little uncalled for and I apologise. > >Jan. >=--- >

NP Jan. Of course, I guess you could make the argument that I was practicing on punting you.... sort of a pre-meditated punt :) Brian Oster

"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:KxSQb.15660$[email hidden]: > One thing I want to bring up Hal after reading this. > > WE DONT RACE TO THE FIRST CORNER...... I'm still pissed & gutted about the start and I dont even know if I gotta blame myself or anyone else. First start I'm too fast ending up T-boning Brian in T1. So second start I'm being carefull and there's 2 cars *flying* passed me well before T1. That makes me even more carefull and slow, so I screw up T1,2/3 got punted flip over about 5 times and loose the engine :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Ahhhh, the ole John Simmons. Wondered what became of ya. Looks like you been > a lurkin here like myself. > Nice worm. Wonder if you will get any bites? Well, it wasn't meant as a wrom, it was meant as an "I told you so..."

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> Hows that hand doing? I pulled a John Simmons on my right index finger about > a month ago. First time I ever amputated a part of my body. I hope it will > be my last. > That was my first mistake. My second was going to the emergency room and > sitting by all those sick people for 4 hours while bleeding all my blood > out. Must have lost at least a pint. Ended up catching a cold from he$$ that > led into pneumonia. Almost done the ole grub in. I'm still coughing up some > chunks that looks like green slime. The taste isn't all that bad though. > Kinda salty. I shouldn't be swallowing it though because it gives me the > monkey butt ("the runs"). > Well time to soak the stub in some hyd-peroxide and down some more > pain-killers. I got to watch that stuff. Makes me see some weird stuff. > grub >

This just proves that computer geeks should not use power tools any more dangerous than a battery operated screw driver. If you had called an ambulance, they would wheel you past all the cold and flu people in the waiting room. Oh yeah, you could also complain of chest pains, and that will bump yopu up in the queue.

Tire wear wasnt an issue for me either. I had more than 3/4 green all the way around in the 17 lap practice race, and on lap 20 when I pitted in the main race. David G Fisher "Brian Oster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I liked the track also. I didn't have any tire wear too speak of > (until I looped it one lap, but that is to be expected). They did > start to get slick around lap 20, but you just had to be easier on the > brakes and gas. How many of you with tire wear issues were using > driving aids? The patch did say that it would excelerate tire wear > when using driving aids. > > Brian Oster > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:53:58 -0500, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >I honestly like the track. There were a lot of other issues, but once I

got > >a rhythm going the track started to be a lot of fun. AFAIK high tirewear > >happens at this track in real life too. I think there were primarily two > >big problems. First we weren't able to settle on a setup with which > >everybody felt comfortable, and even that got picked very late, forcing > >people to adapt in the last few days before the race. Secondly the"ideal > >race line" for this track is incorrect. Not my opinion (I'm no expert)but > >based on real life in-car footage and discussions of the track I haveread > >in books the race line was wrong, which meant a lot of people were tryingto > >drive a non-ideal line, and a very uncomfortable one at that. Inparticular > >the line through most of the closely connected turns was not the way itis > >driven in real life, and that is exactly where people were havingtrouble. > >I tried to drive the correct line and to the degree that I was able to doit

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> >the track felt a lot more comfortable. > > > > > >"ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... > >> I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are > >> almost never in contact with the road. > >> 15 Laps and my tires were so slippery, I had to stop. I think pit speed

of > >> 35 mph was quite silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, okboys? > >> > >> Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put avote

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> >up > >> on RSC forums, ok? > >> > >> -- > >> Richard "ZZ" Busch > >> > >> Member: > >> Screamers Racing League > >> OAO > >> CORS > >> MARA TransAm > >> RASCAR > >> GPL Rank + 17.415 > >> MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > >> N2002 Rank + 7.695 > >> TransAm Rank ?? > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >

> And here's one I learned IN RASCAR: > > 5) If trouble-makers won't quit, kick them out with much fanfare. And then *you* end up not racing in RASCAR anymore. Things are better now. Everyone's opinion is heard, and it IS being run by a group. The racing is better, and there's a fraction of the soap opera nonsense. The insults are waaaay down. Best thing is, nobody has said that BS line, "It's my server/my league, if you don't like it, then get the f**k out." Sorry to disappoint you. David G Fisher

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > And here's one I learned IN RASCAR: > > > > 5) If trouble-makers won't quit, kick them out with much fanfare. > > > And then *you* end up not racing in RASCAR anymore.

Believe me, if I had been responsible for running the server, *you* and Mitch would have been ejected long before it got out of hand. > Things are better now. Everyone's opinion is heard, and it IS being run by a > group. Yeah whatever. Everyone's opinion was heard when me and Eldred were running things too, and decisions were made based on our past experience as league admins and was often based on the opinions of the drivers. Sadly, your constant whiney-little-girl act drowned out everything else that was going on, even the stuff I was trying to do to convince everyone to drive smarter so that we wouldn't have to institute pussy little arbitrary and unrealistic restrictons like not racing back to the caution, or not passing until after T1. > The racing is better, and there's a fraction of the soap opera nonsense. You think that's because of something *you* did? You didn't do anything to improve the racing - the drivers did, and despite it's being "better", more often than not, it appears that you still have a L1/T1 problem in pretty much every race How are you going to fix that? Restrict passing until, like, lap five or something? > The insults are waaaay down. Best thing is, nobody has said that BS line, > "It's my server/my league, if you don't like it, then get the f**k out." > > Sorry to disappoint you. Don't kid yourself, Dave. The only measurable or visible friction that existed was caused by you when you were attacking me. By the way, I notice that every once in a while you join my server just to see if you can. As long as you drive with your head on your shoulders instead of up your ass , you'll be able to race there. (Mediacal note - nine out of ten doctors have stated that moving your head from your ass to your shoulders long enough to complete a race can be uncomfortable, so I guess I can see why you don't stick around long enough to complete a lap.) Finally, my server - my rules (and the rule set is fluid). If anyone screws up and it even smells like it was on purpose or meant as a test to see if I'm really serious, or if anyone continues a demonstrated lack of ability to stay out of trouble on the racing surface, they'll be banned. I haven't had to ban anyone yet, but maybe that's because I only run trans am races, and only drivers that are serious about their driving stick around after qualifying.

I think the first start may have been my fault. I think I slowed way to much and may have cut you off. I don't have a replay obviously, but I think that is what happened. I didn't get t-boned though, no one touched me (are you talking about the other Brian perhaps?). One thing I have never liked about N2003 is the spotter waits until your half way through a lap before he starts letting you know when you are clear and when someone is beside you... guess he misses the start waiting in line to get nachos or something. Brian Oster On 26 Jan 2004 09:26:09 GMT, JLe <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in >news:KxSQb.15660$[email hidden]: > >> One thing I want to bring up Hal after reading this. >> >> WE DONT RACE TO THE FIRST CORNER...... > > >I'm still pissed & gutted about the start and I dont even know if I gotta >blame myself or anyone else. >First start I'm too fast ending up T-boning Brian in T1. >So second start I'm being carefull and there's 2 cars *flying* passed me >well before T1. That makes me even more carefull and slow, so I screw up >T1,2/3 got punted flip over about 5 times and loose the engine >:(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((.

hehe, yea thats it :) "Brian Oster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Didn't you mean "...tires bounce so much on those fake bumps that they > rarely contact the FAKE ashpalt" :) > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:24:08 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I think he meant that the tires bounce so much on those fake bumps thatthey

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> >rarely contact the ashpalt :) > > > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> In article <BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]>, "ZZ" > >> <[email hidden]> writes: > >> > >> >I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires

are

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> >> >almost never in contact with the road. > >> > >> Almost never in contact? What does THAT mean - you're always on the > >grass? > >> > >> Eldred > >> -- > >> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > >> Member > >> Screamers Racing League > >> IICC League > >> GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > >> ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > >> Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress > >> N2k3 rank:in progress > >> > >> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > >

You'll get NO argument from me :) -Larry "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... > Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a voteup

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> on RSC forums, ok? > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > Member: > Screamers Racing League > OAO > CORS > MARA TransAm > RASCAR > GPL Rank + 17.415 > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > TransAm Rank ?? > > > >

I was in the yellow at all 4 corners after the practice race. I had a few 'issues' during the main, so I can't tell you :) -Larry "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Tire wear wasnt an issue for me either. I had more than 3/4 green all the > way around in the 17 lap practice race, and on lap 20 when I pitted in the > main race. > > David G Fisher > > > "Brian Oster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I liked the track also. I didn't have any tire wear too speak of > > (until I looped it one lap, but that is to be expected). They did > > start to get slick around lap 20, but you just had to be easier on the > > brakes and gas. How many of you with tire wear issues were using > > driving aids? The patch did say that it would excelerate tire wear > > when using driving aids. > > > > Brian Oster > > > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:53:58 -0500, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >I honestly like the track. There were a lot of other issues, but once

I > got > > >a rhythm going the track started to be a lot of fun. AFAIK high tire > wear > > >happens at this track in real life too. I think there were primarilytwo

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> > >big problems. First we weren't able to settle on a setup with which > > >everybody felt comfortable, and even that got picked very late, forcing > > >people to adapt in the last few days before the race. Secondly the > "ideal > > >race line" for this track is incorrect. Not my opinion (I'm no expert) > but > > >based on real life in-car footage and discussions of the track I have > read > > >in books the race line was wrong, which meant a lot of people were

trying

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> to > > >drive a non-ideal line, and a very uncomfortable one at that. In > particular > > >the line through most of the closely connected turns was not the way it > is > > >driven in real life, and that is exactly where people were having > trouble. > > >I tried to drive the correct line and to the degree that I was able to

do

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> it > > >the track felt a lot more comfortable. > > > > > > > > >"ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... > > >> I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires

are > > >> almost never in contact with the road. > > >> 15 Laps and my tires were so slippery, I had to stop. I think pitspeed

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> of > > >> 35 mph was quite silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok > boys? > > >> > > >> Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a > vote > > >up > > >> on RSC forums, ok? > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Richard "ZZ" Busch > > >> > > >> Member: > > >> Screamers Racing League > > >> OAO > > >> CORS > > >> MARA TransAm > > >> RASCAR > > >> GPL Rank + 17.415 > > >> MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > > >> N2002 Rank + 7.695 > > >> TransAm Rank ?? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >

I can see it already. 14 votes 14 different tracks :) Mitch "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4KeRb.272$fZ6.80@lakeread06...

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> You'll get NO argument from me :) > > -Larry > > "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... > > > Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a vote > up > > on RSC forums, ok? > > > > -- > > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > > > Member: > > Screamers Racing League > > OAO > > CORS > > MARA TransAm > > RASCAR > > GPL Rank + 17.415 > > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > > TransAm Rank ?? > > > > > > > > > >

Fer Sure!!! -Larry "bluestringer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4V_Qb.37712$[email hidden]...

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> Nice to hear from you Grub. Sorry to hear about your misfortune, was > wondering where you went. We have missed rubbing fenders with ya. Hope you > get well and get back to racing with us soon. > > bluestringer > >

grub wrote: > Ouch.....hope you get to keep the rest of your bits intact :-/ Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

I really haven't minded the tracks. The setups are another story :) I didn't even mind Sebring that much, even though I had bad luck. I'm not crazy about Nosring, but I've said so and I'll now just be a good boy and shut up about it :) I _AM_ of the strong opinion that since none of the setups were really tested, we should have run open setups. Let's face it, the aliens are going to kick our non-alien asses either way. I'm quite fine with that. They deserve it because they are a lot better than me at Road Courses. One day... :) With open setups those of us who are not experts at these places could have at least tweaked the setups to be _comfortable_ for us so we could enjoy our race more. Not being a setup expert at road courses, for me that would have just meant taking the standard setup and tweaking the brake bias, gears and possibly sway bars to make the car more comfortable. -Larry "Brian Oster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I don't know why everyone is complaining about the track selection. I > have not run ANY of the tracks before, not in the trucks or in TA or > in gpl and I like all the tracks. I really don't know what we would > have substituted.... ran Road Atlanta 12 times. > > Brian Oster > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:55:01 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I did ZZ. > > > >And no I hadnt run some of these tracks. > > > >What some of you seem to keep forgetting is that this is an experimental > >"Winter" series. We said that from the outset that we were going to > >experiment with a few things that we never would during the cup season.

We > >did and we've learned allot from this experience. > > > >When we first made the RASCAR change I'd hoped we could use a more > >democratic process to decide issues like this. We tried it and it failed > >miserably. All we ended up with was 8-10 guys each with their own ideas > >that none of which ever seemed to materialize into anything other thantalk. > >If you feel strongly about something then bring it up. We try as hard aswe

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> >can to be as fair as possible to everyone. > > > >Mitch > > > > > >"ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... > >silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok boys? > >> > >> Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a

vote

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> >up > >> on RSC forums, ok? > >> > >> -- > >> Richard "ZZ" Busch > >> > >> Member: > >> Screamers Racing League > >> OAO > >> CORS > >> MARA TransAm > >> RASCAR > >> GPL Rank + 17.415 > >> MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > >> N2002 Rank + 7.695 > >> TransAm Rank ?? > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >

No. The track is SO rough the car is in the air half the time :) They should put this track in 4X4 Evolution. The trucks would handle it better :) -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]>, "ZZ" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are > >almost never in contact with the road. > > Almost never in contact? What does THAT mean - you're always on the

grass?

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> > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Highest count wins :) -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eVeRb.17468$[email hidden]... > I can see it already. 14 votes 14 different tracks :) > > Mitch > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:4KeRb.272$fZ6.80@lakeread06...

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> > You'll get NO argument from me :) > > > > -Larry > > > > "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:BwPQb.106657$[email hidden]... > > > > > Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a

vote

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> > up > > > on RSC forums, ok? > > > > > > -- > > > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > > > > > Member: > > > Screamers Racing League > > > OAO > > > CORS > > > MARA TransAm > > > RASCAR > > > GPL Rank + 17.415 > > > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > > > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > > > TransAm Rank ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hYeRb.276$fZ6.217@lakeread06... [snip] > Let's face it, the aliens are going > to kick our non-alien asses either way. I'm quite fine with that. They > deserve it because they are a lot better than me at Road Courses. One > day... :) [snip] Check this out: http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=133017 These guys are truly awesome - and there's so many of the buggers ;) Life is very strange - you go well in TA in RASCAR on a Saturday night and think, "I'm pretty good at this" and then go to bed feeling warm all over ;) You get up Sunday and log on for the FFRL TA league and it's like landing on Mars. All of a sudden you're just a mid-packer (if you're lucky) and your only goal becomes keeping the number of times you get lapped to a minimum. You gotta love all the different challenges these sims offer though - never a dull moment :) Regards

"Mitch_A" wrote: > I can see it already. 14 votes 14 different tracks :) LOL. Welcome to the People's front of Rascar <G> Don't say we didn't warn you - you and your democracy. In my day we used to take a good old beating from Simmo and still come back for more (unless you were Italian of course, but that was different) and enjoy it. The real masochists amongst us were working on a mod to let his tyres down in between qualifying and the race just to fire him up for the post race chat... Cheers Tony

In article <bv44t5$4lf$[email hidden]>, "Neil Charlton" <[email hidden]> writes: >You gotta love all the different challenges these sims offer though - never >a dull moment :) It gets dull *always* running in the back of the pack... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I had quite a few incidents. On reviewing the replay I don't think I wasat > fault but OTOH some of them were those kind of racing incidents wherethere > isn't much you can do. One thing I am a little bit peeved about thoughwas > getting tagged from behind by several different people. Guilty as charged, Hal, at the end of the practice session, anyway (I don't think I hit anyone but Jan during the race, sorry again, Jan :o/ ). My only excuse (not really an excuse, maybe an explanation) is that after the bad tire wear problem during the Prac race (caused by locking the wheels much more than in off-line practice), I re-calibrated my pedals to require more pressure (travel) before lock-up. I did this a couple of times during the practice session b4 the main race, but never got it the way I wanted it. I saw time was running short, so I came out w/ only time for a lap or 2. When I came up behind Hal in T10, I hit the brakes when he slowed, saw I wasn't going to slow enough, & tried to dive low in order to miss him, not to pass. From my view, I successfully missed him, but saw him sideways in my mirror, & apologized for my blunder. (objects *are* closer than they appear) Then I went on to wreck during Qual, and started near the back of the grid. :o( Pretty much the same thing happened when I hit Jan from behind, tho I was only trying to follow, & *should* have been used to the brakes by then, ~ lap 8-10. Again, from my viewpoint, I didn't get close enough to make contact, but from what I read, the cars are still as large as Cup cars, just *look* shorter & narrower. In the heat of racing, I forgot to leave breathing room for this, not to mention internet problems; tho this was the best connection I've seen for Jan, no warping at all that I could see (or use as an excuse for my mistake, for that matter). Feeling really bad about punting Jan, I was glad to see him continue on (F2 screen), & slowed to allow him (& ZZ it turns out) to catch up & pass. > Not going to point > fingers but I would like to say that it seems to me that if one is still100 > feet behind a guy when he reaches the braking zone that one is not close > enough to attempt a pass. That happened to me more than once, someone who > was not nearly close enough tried to dive bomb me going into 13, and they > ended up putting me off the track. That really shouldn't happen. I'm not > really mad because it turns out those guys had a pretty bad racethemselves. > The only reason I bring it up is because I think people need to exercise a > little more patience at these kind of tracks. We can have close racing > without the incidents if people will take the time to set up a pass > properly. > Hal, & anyone else, who has a finger to point at me, please do. Most times I am aware of my blunders, & will work to correct the problem, but IMHO, constructive critcism is necessary, so point fingers at me when needed. My main goals are, in order: 1) Not ruin anyones day. 2) Have fun. 3) Get the best finish I can, keeping in mind #1 & #2. -Brian

This should be the RASCAR motto Brian :-) "Brian Farmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oCxRb.5089 . My

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> main goals are, in order: > 1) Not ruin anyones day. > 2) Have fun. > 3) Get the best finish I can, keeping in mind #1 & #2. > > -Brian > >

Seriously, this should be the RASCAR motto. Can we steal it? Jurjen do you see this for the site somewhere? "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CByRb.16785$[email hidden]...

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> This should be the RASCAR motto Brian :-) > > "Brian Farmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oCxRb.5089 > . My > > main goals are, in order: > > 1) Not ruin anyones day. > > 2) Have fun. > > 3) Get the best finish I can, keeping in mind #1 & #2. > > > > -Brian > > > > > >

Are you sure it was me? I remember getting hit by a couple other guys but I don't remember getting hit by you. There was one guy who I seemed to develop a magnetic attraction to, we just kept bumping over and over again. I'm not going to name him because he was obviously having a bad day and I don't hold it against him. Plus I'm starting to wonder about the car size thing, I think it's possible I may have put the chrome horn to a couple of people and not even realized it. A couple times I followed a guy very close into the corner and saw him wash out. I didn't feel anything myself and it didn't look like we hit, but I was very close so now I am starting to wonder. If I did do that to anybody I apologize, I would never do that on purpose. "Brian Farmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oCxRb.5089$[email hidden]... > > Guilty as charged, Hal, at the end of the practice session, anyway (Idon't > think I hit anyone but Jan during the race, sorry again, Jan :o/ ). >

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... <bunch of old nonsense snipped> > By the way, I notice that every once in a while you join my server just > to see if you can. No I don't. Once, about 5 months ago (just to tweak you), I did. Never have since. David G Fisher

"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:X4zRb.18524$[email hidden]:

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> Seriously, this should be the RASCAR motto. Can we steal it? Jurjen > do you see this for the site somewhere? > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CByRb.16785$[email hidden]... >> This should be the RASCAR motto Brian :-) >> >> "Brian Farmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oCxRb.5089 >> . My >> > main goals are, in order: >> > 1) Not ruin anyones day. >> > 2) Have fun. >> > 3) Get the best finish I can, keeping in mind #1 & #2. >> > >> > -Brian >> > >> > >> >> > >

Could have been my motto too - LOL I'll sqeeze it in somewhere.

Brian Oster <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > I didn't get t-boned though, no one > touched me (are you talking about the other Brian perhaps?). Weird - when I realised I would have run into you, I braked, the car locked up and last thing I know I ran into you.

On 28 Jan 2004 15:48:55 GMT, JLe <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Brian Oster <[email hidden]> wrote in >news:[email hidden]: > >> I didn't get t-boned though, no one >> touched me (are you talking about the other Brian perhaps?). > >Weird - when I realised I would have run into you, I braked, the car locked >up and last thing I know I ran into you.

Very weird, I don't believe I was touched the whole race. Jan was saying I ran into him and again, I didn't make contact with anyone the entire race (including practice and the first start)... is there someone else's car that I am possibly being confused with? Brian Oster

Brian Oster <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > is there > someone else's car that I am possibly being confused with? > Dunno, you're BOster right? :) j/k We started 3rd and 4th so no confusion on that part, but maybe I was anticipating a grand impact just at the time the race was restarted :D

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <bv44t5$4lf$[email hidden]>, "Neil Charlton" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >You gotta love all the different challenges these sims offer though -never > >a dull moment :) > > It gets dull *always* running in the back of the pack... > I knew a bloke by your name that won at the ring last year ;) Keep smiling Eldred :) Regards

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> Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>> It gets dull *always* running in the back of the pack... >> > >I knew a bloke by your name that won at the ring last year ;) Keep smiling >Eldred :) Sure - why don't you tell them how many cars *finished*? Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 55 assassin Slayer Hendryx lvl 30 barbarian US East

You can name me if you like buddy. I think it was me. I never got to grips with this setup and found the thing totally unpredictable and impossible to push hard with. This has been the case with the last three races now. No offence to Achim - I'm sure his setups suit some people fine - but when you enter a braking zone not knowing whether you are going to wash out, spin or set your fastest lap it's impossible to race. The most annoying part is to have my own setup that I'm 3 seconds faster with and can lap with all day. Though no alien, by any stretch of the imagination, I'm not exactly a rookie racer either. My podium at Kyalami confirms this. There have been few times in the last 15 years when I have been completely unable to at least cruise to a few points in any given race. I should have retired from this one but it's not in my nature to quit once I start. Many apologies to anyone I inconvenienced out there on saturday. I'll be turning some laps over the next few days, not to try to get on the pace but to base a decision as to whether I'll be there at all this week. If I can't lap consistently with these setups, I'll be screwed if I shall continue to frustrate myself and hinder other drivers... MS "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Are you sure it was me? I remember getting hit by a couple other guys butI > don't remember getting hit by you. There was one guy who I seemed to > develop a magnetic attraction to, we just kept bumping over and overagain. > I'm not going to name him because he was obviously having a bad day and I > don't hold it against him. Plus I'm starting to wonder about the car size > thing, I think it's possible I may have put the chrome horn to a couple of > people and not even realized it. A couple times I followed a guy veryclose > into the corner and saw him wash out. I didn't feel anything myself andit

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> didn't look like we hit, but I was very close so now I am starting to > wonder. If I did do that to anybody I apologize, I would never do that on > purpose. > > "Brian Farmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:oCxRb.5089$[email hidden]... > > > > Guilty as charged, Hal, at the end of the practice session, anyway (I > don't > > think I hit anyone but Jan during the race, sorry again, Jan :o/ ). > > > >

Hehe, yep it was you. There's a story in the U.S., probably a myth, about how the first two people to own cars in Kansas somehow managed to find each other and run into each other. I felt like that was us, no matter what else was going on somehow we would manage to find each other and collide. I was a bit annoyed at first but it quickly became obvious that something was just plain wrong. Then it actually started to seem a bit funny. Hopefully we will both have a better race next time. :o) "Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bvbo2v$8b0$[email hidden]... > You can name me if you like buddy. I think it was me. I never got to grips > with this setup and found the thing totally unpredictable and impossibleto > push hard with. This has been the case with the last three races now. No > offence to Achim - I'm sure his setups suit some people fine - but whenyou > enter a braking zone not knowing whether you are going to wash out, spinor > set your fastest lap it's impossible to race. The most annoying part is to > have my own setup that I'm 3 seconds faster with and can lap with all day. > Though no alien, by any stretch of the imagination, I'm not exactly arookie > racer either. My podium at Kyalami confirms this. There have been fewtimes > in the last 15 years when I have been completely unable to at least cruise > to a few points in any given race. > > I should have retired from this one but it's not in my nature to quit onceI > start. Many apologies to anyone I inconvenienced out there on saturday.I'll

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> be turning some laps over the next few days, not to try to get on the pace > but to base a decision as to whether I'll be there at all this week. If I > can't lap consistently with these setups, I'll be screwed if I shall > continue to frustrate myself and hinder other drivers... > > MS > >