Monaco Grand Prix Racing Simulation

I've downloaded the 17 Mb demo yesterday, I needed to see what that sim had to offer. Well, those of us who bought F1RS will certainly feel ripped-off if they have to pay full price for what's IMHO the only version that should have been released by Ubisoft. In fact, the changes between the two releases (assuming that the demo reflects the full game) are vastly an answer from Ubisoft to our wishes. Better handling, more aggressive AI, no hickups in the first turn, faster menus, better sound (still not perfect), better looking tires (can't believe they were that ugly!) and so on. If they'd come to us in the first place there wouldn't have been any reason to create a second sim, I believe. You don't like F1RS? I don't think you'll like MGPRS. It's the same game (Oops! I mean SIM!). The feel is not more GP2-ish, for those who wish it were... There are a few issues that haven't been resolved yet: -Collisions are still unreal. When you hit an AI car it feels like hitting a cement wall. Your car stops completely and the CC continues it's way undisturbed. GP2 has a definite advantage in this aspect. - At the end of a race, you won't get any info on lap speeds as in GP2 (When you loose, you could still say to the winner "Yeah, but I got the fastest lap! You're still 4 tenths adrift!"). You only get the same finish board that was there in F1RS, with the winner's time for the race and gap to the winner for all other cars. -It also looks like we won't be able to enjoy our parade lap... I personnaly don't understand why the computer takes control of your car once you've passed the start/finish line. Maybe Ubisoft felt like we'd need some rest after a race... - It's still hard to do power turns. I'm not an expert in real F1, but I'd guess it should be much easier than it is in MRGPS to do 180 turns with such an overpowered lightweight car. I'm sure there are a lot more changes than I've seen, but they don't really change the "feel" of the game (Oops! Did it again! Release the dogs!). They don't make the sim (Please stop the dogs!) perfect either, but they at least make it much more enjoyable. Those of you who were not sure if they'd buy F1RS because of the obvious glitches will be rewarded for waiting, as you'll get a better product for the same price. As for the ones who bought F1RS, you really deserve a special upgrade price. Fight for it. A. Renault

<Le Snippage> Hmmm. I don't know about that, If I feel "ripped off" then my decision to buy F1RS wasn't a good one. My mistake. If the sequel (MGP or F1RS2) isn't that much better, then I 've the choise to buy it, or not. Each year most car models are upgraded. I've never heard someone complaining about their one year old car not to be upgraded for a special price..... Remco

> There are a few issues that haven't been resolved yet: ... In F1RS, you can see the drivers' fastest lap times by looking at the "F1Mag". Unfortunately, I don't think this feature is available in all modes - I know it's there when you drive a race in "Grand Prix" mode (with practice, qualifying, etc.), but I don't think you get it when you just drive a race (what GP2 calls a "Quick Race"). Isn't that correct? (I've only had F1RS for two weeks). Dave Ewing

I understand your point, but there's a big difference between software and cars, I'm pretty sure you'll agree with me on that aspect. When you buy a car, you EXPECT a new one to come out within a year or less. You know it wont be much different from yours, and you know there'll be some improvements. You make your choice to buy it or not with that in mind. It could work the same way with software, but usually it doesn't. We expect comanies to deliver something new and different each time. But things are changing. Win 98 is a good example. Not the way to go IMHO. I'm not saying it isn't good business, that's another debate wich might take forever to discuss. What I'm saying is we shouldn't lower our standards, we should keep pressurng the software companies to deliver us the best they have to offer. A. Renault

Oh and I forgot... Car salesmen usually let you take the whole car out for a drive, not just part of it. And again I must say that there are regions where stores just won't refund opened software. We should have been able to check out network play before buying F1RS. We won't get that chance with MGPRS either. AI has its limits, and bad multiplayer can severely mangle an otherwise really good title. A. Renault

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><Le Snippage> >>As for the ones who bought F1RS, you really deserve a special upgrade >>price. Fight for it. >Hmmm. I don't know about that, If I feel "ripped off" then my decision >to buy F1RS wasn't a good one. My mistake. If the sequel (MGP or >F1RS2) isn't that much better, then I 've the choise to buy it, or >not. >Each year most car models are upgraded. I've never heard someone >complaining about their one year old car not to be upgraded for a >special price..... >Remco

I dont think so....... Most people have not owned F1RS for a year (most wait for good reviews and .1 patches). In the real world, The "mistake" as you call it, should really be the first F1RS game itself. Ver 2 of a game (or 3, 4 etc) should be ground breaking !!!!! And not a way to***off the people that supported (with their hard earned money) the first version........ And I agree 100% with the other guys post that says a rebate to orignal F1RS owners is a must !!!!!!! (even microscam offers rebates). BTW, Do you like to get ripped off by software companys ? Lorne

The new demo looks good. I espacially like the A-1 track; it has a bunch of fast corners. my best lap time was 1:12, though not enough to beat the tough computer cars, who bumped me without any shame quite often... The graphics looks a lot like the ones found in F1RS, except I find the cars look a little bit more real. The tires look also better... no more square black blocks... The sound quality has improved (throttle sound is more "fluid"; before it sounded like it was either completely on or completely off), although I have the same anoying sound problem, in this demo, that I have in my F1RS game. When I start the game for the first time, all the sounds are there. However, during the race, some sound will gradually disapear: tire squeal, shifting and downshifting, being bumped, hitting the rumple strips...). After a couple of races, the sound will disapear totally. The game still runs ok... If I go out back to Win98, the I start the game again, the problem is fixed. My system: PII 400 Sound Blaster PCI 128 128 meg of Ram Diamond Stealth II G640 Monster 3D II Any suggestions? Philippe Sergerie

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:15:02 -0400, "Philippe Sergerie" >When I start the game for the first time, all the sounds are there. However, >during the race, some sound will gradually disapear: tire squeal, shifting >and downshifting, being bumped, hitting the rumple strips...). After a >couple of races, the sound will disapear totally. The game still runs ok... >If I go out back to Win98, the I start the game again, the problem is fixed. I haven't experienced the problem you mention, but I must say that MGP carried a sound problem over from F1RS for me too. Sometimes when a car follows me I do not hear sound from his motor, instead I hear another sound like tires squeeling or curb (kerb? q'herb? kurb? blurb?) vibrations, even on a straightaway. I looks like the game engine gets mixed up with sounds at some point. Once, while I was playing F1RS, the motor's sound got mixed up and instead of it I was hearing "Nouveau record du tour!" over and over again (I own the french version, of course! "Nouveau record du tour!" translates as "New lap record!"). I find it strange that they would miss such an obvious bug. But then again maybe we're then only two people experiencing sound problems! A. Renault

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>><Le Snippage> >>>As for the ones who bought F1RS, you really deserve a special upgrade >>>price. Fight for it. >>Hmmm. I don't know about that, If I feel "ripped off" then my decision >>to buy F1RS wasn't a good one. My mistake. If the sequel (MGP or >>F1RS2) isn't that much better, then I 've the choise to buy it, or >>not. >>Each year most car models are upgraded. I've never heard someone >>complaining about their one year old car not to be upgraded for a >>special price..... >>Remco >I dont think so....... >Most people have not owned F1RS for a year >(most wait for good reviews and .1 patches). >In the real world, The "mistake" as you call it, >should really be the first F1RS game itself. >Ver 2 of a game (or 3, 4 etc) should be ground breaking !!!!! >And not a way to***off the people that supported >(with their hard earned money) the first version........ >And I agree 100% with the other guys post that says a rebate >to orignal F1RS owners is a must !!!!!!! >(even microscam offers rebates). >BTW, Do you like to get ripped off by software companys ?

No, I don't like to get ripped off by anyone. Always when I visit the software store, I wonder why people are browsing boxes, trying to pick a title they _might_ like. Just by judging the pictures and text on the box. These people justify the tactics used by the software industry. With one exception, I have never bought something what dissapointed me. (That was Dungeon Keeper, my excuse is that I was recovering from being very sick at the time). Do you homework, know what you buy. Don't blame the industry that you buy ***titles. The problem these days with software is, that everyone is expecting patches for removing the bugs (reasonable), and that these patches should contain extra features (not reasonable). I've seen the demo of MGP, and there are a lot more features then the first version. I think it is worth the price. Hee, all IMHO ofcourse. Remco

Nothing can justify ripping people off....... I do my homework and that is why I bought F1RS..... But... I would have kept playing GP2 and not have put the time and money into F1RS if I would have known that UBI would rush to market an improved version before long. Ya.... I am sure it is worth the price to people that didnt buy F1RS !!!!!!! But for people like me that bought F1RS a short time ago (at full price) it does nothing but***ME OFF....... After F1RS was on the shelves for 3 or so months they should have put a sticker on the box warning people that a improved version is going to be out before long (They new all along that they were going to rush out F1RS 2) . Now.... I know that this may be asking a little much of them, but think of the person who bought F1RS a month ago (at full price) and then all of the sudden he hears that if he would have waited 3 weeks he could have had the improved version.... Man........ thats sad !!! Thats why they should offer a big rebate to owners of the first F1RS, I feel this is the LEAST they can do. Lorne

Correction: F1RS was available in Canada roughly at the same time as in Europe. That is true of Quebec at least. I got my version earlier than a lot of you guys. It's a french version... I you look on the box, the price is indicated in French francs... So for me, F1RS is not a vey new title... Philippe Sergerie

snip > I do my homework and that is why I bought F1RS..... > But... I would have kept playing GP2 and not have put the time and money > into F1RS if I would have known that UBI would rush to market an improved > version before long. I bought F1RS, because it had enough improvements over GP2, and MGPR has enough of them over F1RS. Read it on Ubi's website. Just knowing, that there is an advanced version on the shelf pisses you off. Don't buy it and keep enjoying F1RS, or would you like to enjoy the new features in MGPR? What about this short time stuff? In Europe F1RS was released about a year ago, until you get MGPR in Canada it will be about a year, too. I definitly could not wait any longer for a new version... F1RS is now on the shelf for half price. Oh, I'm pissed off, I paid the full price for it. Damn' you, UbiSoft! ;^) I didn't get a rebate when I bought Quake2 after having bought Quake1. So what? l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

<Snip> Ok, Our opinions vary, that's ok. It's no fun to buy something at full price, realizing later that an upgraded version is due sone. Don't worry, I believe that MGP will be released in Febr. 1999, so have fun with F1RS until then. Remco

The sound problem started happening to me with F1RS when I put in a SB128. The new F1RS 2 maintains this problem. My old AWE32 worked flawlessly. >The new demo looks good. I espacially like the A-1 track; it has a bunch of >fast corners. my best lap time was 1:12, though not enough to beat the tough >computer cars, who bumped me without any shame quite often... >The graphics looks a lot like the ones found in F1RS, except I find the cars >look a little bit more real. The tires look also better... no more square >black blocks... The sound quality has improved (throttle sound is more >"fluid"; before it sounded like it was either completely on or completely >off), although I have the same anoying sound problem, in this demo, that I >have in my F1RS game. >When I start the game for the first time, all the sounds are there. However, >during the race, some sound will gradually disapear: tire squeal, shifting >and downshifting, being bumped, hitting the rumple strips...). After a >couple of races, the sound will disapear totally. The game still runs ok... >If I go out back to Win98, the I start the game again, the problem is fixed.

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>My system: PII 400 >Sound Blaster PCI 128 >128 meg of Ram >Diamond Stealth II G640 >Monster 3D II >Any suggestions? >Philippe Sergerie

The sound problem started happening to me with F1RS when I put in a SB128. The new F1RS 2 maintains this problem. My old AWE32 worked flawlessly. Marc. >The new demo looks good. I espacially like the A-1 track; it has a bunch of >fast corners. my best lap time was 1:12, though not enough to beat the tough >computer cars, who bumped me without any shame quite often... >The graphics looks a lot like the ones found in F1RS, except I find the cars >look a little bit more real. The tires look also better... no more square >black blocks... The sound quality has improved (throttle sound is more >"fluid"; before it sounded like it was either completely on or completely >off), although I have the same anoying sound problem, in this demo, that I >have in my F1RS game. >When I start the game for the first time, all the sounds are there. However, >during the race, some sound will gradually disapear: tire squeal, shifting >and downshifting, being bumped, hitting the rumple strips...). After a >couple of races, the sound will disapear totally. The game still runs ok... >If I go out back to Win98, the I start the game again, the problem is fixed.

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>My system: PII 400 >Sound Blaster PCI 128 >128 meg of Ram >Diamond Stealth II G640 >Monster 3D II >Any suggestions? >Philippe Sergerie

I think you are right...... I keep thinking I am going to see ver2 at computer stores any day now........ BUT..... If you are listening UBISOFT ?.....you still have a chance to offer rebates to the owners that made it possible for you to bring a "ver2" to market. Do the right thing !!!!!!!!! Lorne

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><Snip> >Ok, Our opinions vary, that's ok. It's no fun to buy something at full >price, realizing later that an upgraded version is due sone. Don't >worry, I believe that MGP will be released in Febr. 1999, so have fun >with F1RS until then. >Remco

I agree ===>100%<=== !!!!!!!!! Great post.......I think it`s time the people that buy the 1st ver (that allows for a 2nd ver) get rewarded in some way.... Instead of getting a slap in the face. Lorne

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>I've downloaded the 17 Mb demo yesterday, I needed to see what that >sim had to offer. >Well, those of us who bought F1RS will certainly feel ripped-off if >they have to pay full price for what's IMHO the only version that >should have been released by Ubisoft. In fact, the changes between >the two releases (assuming that the demo reflects the full game) are >vastly an answer from Ubisoft to our wishes. Better handling, more >aggressive AI, no hickups in the first turn, faster menus, better >sound (still not perfect), better looking tires (can't believe they >were that ugly!) and so on. >If they'd come to us in the first place there wouldn't have been any >reason to create a second sim, I believe. You don't like F1RS? I >don't think you'll like MGPRS. It's the same game (Oops! I mean >SIM!). The feel is not more GP2-ish, for those who wish it were... >There are a few issues that haven't been resolved yet: >-Collisions are still unreal. When you hit an AI car it feels like >hitting a cement wall. Your car stops completely and the CC continues >it's way undisturbed. GP2 has a definite advantage in this aspect. >- At the end of a race, you won't get any info on lap speeds as in GP2 >(When you loose, you could still say to the winner "Yeah, but I got >the fastest lap! You're still 4 tenths adrift!"). You only get the >same finish board that was there in F1RS, with the winner's time for >the race and gap to the winner for all other cars. >-It also looks like we won't be able to enjoy our parade lap... I >personnaly don't understand why the computer takes control of your car >once you've passed the start/finish line. Maybe Ubisoft felt like >we'd need some rest after a race... >- It's still hard to do power turns. I'm not an expert in real F1, >but I'd guess it should be much easier than it is in MRGPS to do 180 >turns with such an overpowered lightweight car. >I'm sure there are a lot more changes than I've seen, but they don't >really change the "feel" of the game (Oops! Did it again! Release >the dogs!). They don't make the sim (Please stop the dogs!) perfect >either, but they at least make it much more enjoyable. >Those of you who were not sure if they'd buy F1RS because of the >obvious glitches will be rewarded for waiting, as you'll get a better >product for the same price. >As for the ones who bought F1RS, you really deserve a special upgrade >price. Fight for it. >A. Renault

If you are lsitening Ubisoft, please supply us with a track editor, that will at least be a good reason for us to purchase it, since seeing that the retro mode only comes with one track, at least we will be able to make our own tracks and should prolong the life of this sim.

Do you people *really* comprehend what you are saying? I'll use as analogy to make it simple: In January you bought a new car. A new model from a relative new manufacturer. The car had a six-cylinder, single-point fuel-injected engine, a four-speed gearbox and a 4-speaker AM-FM radio. It was only available in any of 6 colours, none of them metallic, so you chose the plain white one. Oh...it didn't have air-conditioning. But it did have some features as standard that piqued your interest: alloy wheels with low-profile tyres; a sports body kit; some 'go-faster' striping and a great looking spoiler on the back. So you bought it because it looked great, went pretty well and, even though it had a whimpy exhaust note, you liked the handling. You were quite pleased with the car, feeling that, although there was room for improvement in several areas, you had received a most usable product. Then yesterday the manufacturer released the new model! It came standard with a multi-point fuel-injected V6, a five-speed gearbox, a six-speaker radio with CD player and was available in any of 16 colours, 6 of which were metallics! All the other things that you liked about the original car were included. You then complained bitterly that *THIS* was the car that *SHOULD* have been released back in January! And you demanded that the manufacturer upgrade your old car, free-of-charge, or at least give you a new one at minimal cost. The manufacturer suggested that you to seek immediate psychiatric before calling you a total ***er. > I agree ===>100%<=== !!!!!!!!! > Great post.......I think it`s time the people that buy the 1st ver > (that allows for a 2nd ver) get rewarded in some way.... > Instead of getting a slap in the face. -- Regards, Bruce. ----------

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> Do you people *really* comprehend what you are saying? > I'll use as analogy to make it simple: > In January you bought a new car. A new model from a relative new > manufacturer. The car had a six-cylinder, single-point fuel-injected > engine, a four-speed gearbox and a 4-speaker AM-FM radio. It was only > available in any of 6 colours, none of them metallic, so you chose the > plain white one. Oh...it didn't have air-conditioning. But it did have > some features as standard that piqued your interest: alloy wheels with > low-profile tyres; a sports body kit; some 'go-faster' striping and a > great looking spoiler on the back. So you bought it because it looked > great, went pretty well and, even though it had a whimpy exhaust note, > you liked the handling. > You were quite pleased with the car, feeling that, although there was > room for improvement in several areas, you had received a most usable > product. > Then yesterday the manufacturer released the new model! It came > standard with a multi-point fuel-injected V6, a five-speed gearbox, a > six-speaker radio with CD player and was available in any of 16 colours, > 6 of which were metallics! All the other things that you liked about > the original car were included. > You then complained bitterly that *THIS* was the car that *SHOULD* have > been released back in January! And you demanded that the manufacturer > upgrade your old car, free-of-charge, or at least give you a new one at > minimal cost.

But they do. It's called a trade in. At least they do give you back something. > The manufacturer suggested that you to seek immediate psychiatric before > calling you a total ***er. Mike \\ ---- Automotive Page - [link lost in import: /;//] \\ ------ Homepage - http://www.lt.pcsa.net.au ------ // \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= //

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:21:08 +1000, Bruce Kennewell >Do you people *really* comprehend what you are saying? (lots of details about a guy who bought a nice car snipped) There is a difference between buying a car and buying software. 1-You're not talking about the same amount of money; 2-The devaluation rate is higher for software than it is for cars; 3-You can try the entire car before buying it; 4-You expect new cars to come out each year; 5-Etc... And I'm sure there are lots of other differences... You can use analogies if you want, but to me the one you used is oranges and apples... Anyway I've read a little about the game and now I know there'll be some more improvements over F1RS. Enough that people who bought F1RS won't feel ripped-off when they buy MGP and shelve F1RS indefinitely? I don't think so, but I guess it's a matter of opinions... A. Renault

> You can use analogies if you want, but to me the one you used is > oranges and apples... Anyway I've read a little about the game and > now I know there'll be some more improvements over F1RS. Enough that > people who bought F1RS won't feel ripped-off when they buy MGP and > shelve F1RS indefinitely? I don't think so, but I guess it's a matter > of opinions... yeah - it all depends on a person's opinions. for instance, i'm a bit miffed that the driving physics model is still identical to F1RS, complete with the flaws that put me off F1RS, so i won't be bothering to get MGP. doesn't matter how many other pretty frills they have added if the driving still doesn't feel right. but that's just my opinion:) hehe

Funny, I went into EB the other day with my copy of F1RS and they would not let me trade it in ? If all car dealerships let you trade in older cars why dont software stores (or the software companys) let you do that with software? Could it be that they are not the same thing ? If you were right (with your below comments) then I would be getting something back from UBI for my "old" game. Ya know, You would have made a better point if you would have compared games to stale food <G>, but you would have been just as wrong. IMHO It`s time for a change in the way software companys do things (read my new post on that topic). Lorne

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>Do you people *really* comprehend what you are saying? >I'll use as analogy to make it simple: >In January you bought a new car. A new model from a relative new >manufacturer. The car had a six-cylinder, single-point fuel-injected >engine, a four-speed gearbox and a 4-speaker AM-FM radio. It was only >available in any of 6 colours, none of them metallic, so you chose the >plain white one. Oh...it didn't have air-conditioning. But it did have >some features as standard that piqued your interest: alloy wheels with >low-profile tyres; a sports body kit; some 'go-faster' striping and a >great looking spoiler on the back. So you bought it because it looked >great, went pretty well and, even though it had a whimpy exhaust note, >you liked the handling. >You were quite pleased with the car, feeling that, although there was >room for improvement in several areas, you had received a most usable >product. >Then yesterday the manufacturer released the new model! It came >standard with a multi-point fuel-injected V6, a five-speed gearbox, a >six-speaker radio with CD player and was available in any of 16 colours, >6 of which were metallics! All the other things that you liked about >the original car were included. >You then complained bitterly that *THIS* was the car that *SHOULD* have >been released back in January! And you demanded that the manufacturer >upgrade your old car, free-of-charge, or at least give you a new one at >minimal cost. >The manufacturer suggested that you to seek immediate psychiatric before >calling you a total ***er. >> I agree ===>100%<=== !!!!!!!!! >> Great post.......I think it`s time the people that buy the 1st ver >> (that allows for a 2nd ver) get rewarded in some way.... >> Instead of getting a slap in the face. >-- >Regards, >Bruce. >----------