NHRA is great

I just bought NHRA and I will play it A LOT MORE THAN BURNOUT. The game is so much better it's not funny. You have basic setting in the pit and that's all you need. AS for the peddles the buttons in this case are better in the real thing you are on the gas to the floor or stopped. The camera can be moved into a true***pit it just doesnt show the gauges. Over all NHRA kicks butt.

The brake in a dragster or funny car is only a hand brake & not intended to slow a car going 300 plus mph in a quarter mile, thats what the parachute is for. They say that a driver may feel as many as 6g's after the parachute is deployed compared to only 3g's leaving the starting line. The point I'm trying to make here is that if you locked up the brakes on a funny car going that speed you probably would end up destroying your car into the wall without a parachute to slow you.

I'll tell you what...I've never driven a Top Fueler, but I HAVE driven a Pro Stock, and the braking in this game is very realistic. You have to let the chute hit first and then pump the brakes. You don't partially hold down the brake pedal like in a family car! These cars use carbon fiber brakes that heat up and really grab quick. That's why you just tap them. A Top Fuel would have to be like the Pro Stock but much more. Obviously you have some kind of vendetta against this game. Do you work for Bethesda?

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> On Sat, 15 Aug 1998 04:07:28 GMT, Robert Foreman > >I just bought NHRA and I will play it A LOT MORE THAN BURNOUT. The game > >is so much better it's not funny. You have basic setting in the pit > >and that's all you need. AS for the peddles the buttons in this case are > >better in the real thing you are on the gas to the floor or stopped. > >The camera can be moved into a true***pit it just doesnt show the > >gauges. Over all NHRA kicks butt. > Do you like the way that the button for brakes makes it lockup and > crash at 320MPH? I know, I know you click it and let it go and click > and let go, like your Nintendo... > HAHAHA!!! KeWl cRAsHes d00d.......... > BOOM!! > LOL!! > -- > * rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com > * s.p.u.t.u.m. (unit.26) - http://www.sputum.com

Then you've never driven a Citroen DS, which has a mushroom head for a brake pedal. > I have never driven a car > of any type including racecars (SCCA for 15 years), with a button > for brakes and throttle. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Another minor point its also -6g's not 6's

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>> >Do you like the way that the button for brakes makes it lockup and >> >crash at 320MPH? I know, I know you click it and let it go and click >> >and let go, like your Nintendo... >> > HAHAHA!!! KeWl cRAsHes d00d.......... >> >BOOM!! >> >LOL!! >> >-- >> >* rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com >> >* s.p.u.t.u.m. (unit.26) - http://www.sputum.com >> The brake in a dragster or funny car is only a hand brake & not intended

to >> slow a car going 300 plus mph in a quarter mile, thats what the parachute is >> for. They say that a driver may feel as many as 6g's after the parachute is >> deployed compared to only 3g's leaving the starting line. >Minor point: the fuel cars regularly achieve 5g's launching off the >starting line. >Brent

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>No, I don't work for Bethesda. Also, I have never driven a car >of any type including racecars (SCCA for 15 years), with a button >for brakes and throttle. As far as any vendetta, I don't have any >problem with Tantrum making any kind of game they want. My problem >is with those that shouted down the Burnout players, here, with their >comments about how the beta of NHRA blew Burnout away. They >are silent now.

Excellent point which I thought needed repeating. At least it shows someone was paying attention :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

> My problem > is with those that shouted down the Burnout players, here, with their > comments about how the beta of NHRA blew Burnout away. They > are silent now. I can't speak for others, but I only made comparisons between sims and never shouted anyone down because they liked Burnout. I still feel NHRA (at the time) was the better sim. I'm just as dissappointed as the next guy that Tantrum released the it in such an unfinished state, and had thought something as elementary as the controller input would have been addressed. The sim will probably get all the fixes needed that should have been there to begin with...Shame on Tantrum, but also shame on you for adding the blame to anyone other than the company that produced it. The testers screamed for a fix, but it never showed. It should be obvious that the ones who view/test have little influence over those who hold the purse strings. Cheers! Marc -- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

>The sim will probably get all the fixes needed that should have been >there to begin with...Shame on Tantrum, but also shame on you for >adding the blame to anyone other than the company that produced it. >The testers screamed for a fix, but it never showed. It should be >obvious that the ones who view/test have little influence over those >who hold the purse strings. To add to this... I think about every Sim company has done such a thing... How could the Microsoft testers say nothing about the poor C:PR ? How could the Papyrus testers say nothing about the lurking with the first patch of N2 ? How could the UbiSoft testers say nothing about all the problems F1RS had when it was launched ? The list could go very long, and for me Tantrum did the same as about all the racing simulator companies. Even though they could had waited until a Christmas release. Not that Beta testers aren't important, but at the time they actually test the product it is mostly too far ahead to fix some obvious thing as the throttle/brake or 3dfx problems that NHRA has. They are just there for the upcoming first patch IMHO... - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

I haven't beta tested for Tantrum but have for Bethesda. There seems to be a big difference here between these two companies listening to thier beta testers. I know for a fact that Bethesda fixed the problems or at least tried to within a day or two for us to test the fixes. They couldn't get enough from us to try and make it a good sim. They listened to us quite well. I will purchase NHRA if and only IF they fix the support for the 3dfx chipset. When PCE comes out I'm sure that Bethesda will release it in a far better state than what Tantrum has shown us.

This hasn't always been the case as with their last title "X-Car." Bethesda killed any potential this game had by not supporting it. I commend Bethesda for covering the needs of Burnout owners, as they've gone beyond what most (if any) company would do for support. Excellent service for the time being...Let's hope other companies are taking notes. Cheers! Marc > I haven't beta tested for Tantrum but have for Bethesda. There seems to be a > big difference here between these two companies listening to thier beta > testers. -- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

> Hey, I'm not blaming the testers for the game. I am blaming the > testers for PRAISING it. Nothing to indicate that the throttle-issue wouldn't be fixed, or that 3Dfx would be complete. Things appeared to sailing smoothly with beta-updates (friend was a tester), and after I viewed the latest build I was shocked to learn that the sim had gone "gold." It was then, and is now, an awesome sim - albeit in a beta-sort of way...That's unfortunate, but then I don't know *why* it was rushed into press - what with x-mas so far down the road. Mainly the controller issue (throttle), the long load times, and not being fully optimized for 3Dfx. Only one tester outside the ranks of the NHRA (that I know of), and posts on a regular basis. I don't know if you've ever beta-tested, but most are required to sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement). Depending on the agreement, they usually can't discuss *anything* that has to do with the product...BTW, some NDA's remain in effect even AFTER the product ships. Of course, I'm not under any such obligation, and occasionally *just_ happen_to_stop_by* while my buddy has something on the PC. I usually shoot my mouth off about what I've seen (usually gets me in trouble anyway), and thought everything was OK, (figured all would be fixed based on past experience on other betas). With each build, the sim improved by leaps_and_bounds...As mentioned, nothing to indicate things wouldn't be fixed (if needed to). Perhaps Tantrum should have gotten more outside testers, rather than mostly NHRA drivers...Especially if they expect to compete with Bethesda, and also to win the dollars of the die_in_the_wool sim enthusiast. *He* is still here, and his name is Mike Dunn. Do you assume Burnout's not available any longer?...I urge all to try both, as they each have their good points and bad. Of course, NHRA is basically *beta*, and people who buy should either be prepared to return it or wait for the patches - both a waste of time IMHO. Cheers! Marc -- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

> BZZT.. there was more than one posting (praising) here. Trevor Thomas > comes to mind. He may have *had* builds sent to him, but from what I was told, Trevor wasn't *officially* on the beta team. Bully for you!..You assume many things, especially being older than I (something I'll neither confirm nor deny!<g>). BTW, because of your lack of foresight during your *beta-testing* period, it would appear you are to blame for our Y2K problem. ;) You may find some posts by me on the same subject (and shouting the same)...Like I said in my previous post, I had no indication that the company would ship NHRA in such an unfinished state. As far as I could tell (at the time), the sim was progressing very nicely. Misleading how?...I never once heard anyone mention "hey, buy NHRA for the awesome controlls it offers!" When Mike was posting, he could say he liked (or disliked) the sim, but not (legally) mention specifics. Did you actually expect him to post "the current beta is great, and I'm waiting for the next build with the controller fix"...Pul-ease! As mentioned above, I don't think Trevor was an "official" tester. It was stunning (taking into account its stage of development), and *could have been* a very nice sim. I had said the very thing you mention - that anyone thinking of holding out for NHRA should (or at least implied this). For this I'm embarrassed, but not sorry. I made an honest assesment on the merits of the sim, how it was progressing, where it was heading, etc...X-Car was the same way, but things changed between the time I reviewed the beta and the time it was released. In the end, it's just fodder for the bargain bins. Cheers! Marc -- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

If they listen to you so well where was the***pit view.

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> >It should be obvious that the ones who view/test have little influence over > those > >who hold the purse strings. > I haven't beta tested for Tantrum but have for Bethesda. There seems to be a > big difference here between these two companies listening to thier beta > testers. I know for a fact that Bethesda fixed the problems or at least > tried to within a day or two for us to test the fixes. They couldn't get > enough from us to try and make it a good sim. They listened to us quite > well. I will purchase NHRA if and only IF they fix the support for the 3dfx > chipset. When PCE comes out I'm sure that Bethesda will release it in a far > better state than what Tantrum has shown us.

It's not that it wasn't asked for, it was. There wasn't enough time to do it. Look for PCE when it comes out. >If they listen to you so well where was the***pit view.

I don't really think many people want to hear about how shocked you or any beta tester is. I think what they would like is your help in getting 3dfx cards to work and getting the gas/brake working. Can you do this? If not your contribution to this NG with regards to NHRA is kind of laughable. Ditto for Mike. I would like this stuff sorted out because I want to buy the game. As it is now there is no chance. They released a game they knew was broken. That is enough to boycott the game/company for quite some time IMHO. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >> BZZT.. there was more than one posting (praising) here. Trevor Thomas >> comes to mind. >He may have *had* builds sent to him, but from what I was told, Trevor >wasn't *officially* on the beta team. >> heh... As a retired IBM systems engineer, I was probably beta testing >> before you were born. I beta'd three products in the last year, one of >> which was Flight Unlimited II. Another was never released and the 3rd >> is still on the burner. I am fully aware of typical NDA wording. >Bully for you!..You assume many things, especially being older than I >(something I'll neither confirm nor deny!<g>). BTW, because of your >lack of foresight during your *beta-testing* period, it would appear >you are to blame for our Y2K problem. ;) >> But, they DID talk about it. How great it was and how Burnout was >> going to be left in the dust. When people would ask about Burnout >> and whether they should buy it, they were told to wait and that NHRA >> was ALREADY better and only will improve when released. I could dredge >> those (hundreds of) posts up from Deja News, if I thought it would >> help, but if people don't realize what a joke NHRA is, by now, they >> never will. >You may find some posts by me on the same subject (and shouting the >same)...Like I said in my previous post, I had no indication that the >company would ship NHRA in such an unfinished state. As far as I >could tell (at the time), the sim was progressing very nicely. >> Of course, the BETA testers were driving with their joystick buttons. >> You will have to admit, THAT is ridiculous (and misleading). >Misleading how?...I never once heard anyone mention "hey, buy NHRA for >the awesome controlls it offers!" When Mike was posting, he could say >he liked (or disliked) the sim, but not (legally) mention specifics. >Did you actually expect him to post "the current beta is great, and I'm >waiting for the next build with the controller fix"...Pul-ease! >> And Trevor? >As mentioned above, I don't think Trevor was an "official" tester. >> That is your opinion, but since you weren't a beta tester, people >> didn't ask you those questions prior to release. They asked and >> were told by the testers to WAIT. That NHRA was around the >> corner and it was stunning. >It was stunning (taking into account its stage of development), and >*could have been* a very nice sim. I had said the very thing you >mention - that anyone thinking of holding out for NHRA should (or at >least implied this). For this I'm embarrassed, but not sorry. I made >an honest assesment on the merits of the sim, how it was progressing, >where it was heading, etc...X-Car was the same way, but things changed >between the time I reviewed the beta and the time it was released. >In the end, it's just fodder for the bargain bins. >Cheers! >Marc >-- >Marc J. Nelson >The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com >* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

> I don't really think many people want to hear about how shocked > you or any beta tester is. The conversation was between me, rrevved, and *anyone else* with a *civil* tounge. I don't see where anyone asked for your opinion, let alone for your facetious remarks. Sorry, I don't have a fix. Perhaps you should ask Tantrum...nicely? So what makes you think that by openly flaming me here in this ng, that I would give a rats-ass about whether it got sorted out? I guess answers are easy enough to come by, all you need to do is ask. Not this mamby-pamby, horse-shit you throw at me. What contributions (if any) have you made to this ng besides mouthing-off? Few come to mind. Who cares whether you buy the game or not? You're aware the game is screwed as is out of the box - so don't buy it. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out - sheesh. So boycott them - it's your dollars. Flame on! Marc -- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

snip This is what I like to hear! :))))) I just hope that, unlike CPR, that they get good and satisfying patches out soon. But it's disturbing to see this type of thing happen and makes one question the companies dedication to this particular product. Control/3dfx/load time issues are a joke, but to me, even worse is the total exclusion of multiplayer. I mean, the sim would be a blast for about an hour, or maybe for 1 season against the AI, but can you imagine the boredom after that! I would imagine that a drag sim, no matter how good, would get VERY OLD, VERY FAST without multiplayer.

>> I don't really think many people want to hear about how shocked >> you or any beta tester is. >The conversation was between me, rrevved, and *anyone else* with a >*civil* tounge. I don't see where anyone asked for your opinion, let >alone for your facetious remarks. Since it was in a public forum I think thhe converstation is for everyone. Even the people who are outraged that tantrum released a product which they knew was a buggy peice of crap. I guess my whole point with asking this, is the burnout testers *WOULD* have a fix. I guess you are showing everyone that you don't care. Thanks. Well excuse Mr. Simproject (whatever the hell that is). Ok. Thanks for the tip. I believe I will. Boy you sure are helpful when it comes to this game. Thanks a bunch!!!! -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

> Since it was in a public forum I think thhe converstation is for > everyone. Public - yes, but the reply also mentioned civility. Should the *testers* have a fix? Do the qualifications of a tester include coding experience, not to mention Tantrum's source code? You're welcome. Let us know when you actually purchase the product. -- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

There is a***pit view in NHRA and it is bland with nothing special to see! We were told by beta testers for NHRA how great it would be and it was too bad Burnout couldn't have it! Well I for one have gone to using the same view in NHRA as we have in Burnout and found it preferable to the***pit view. As far as***pits for Burnout go there wasn't enough time to get it done in the first few patches as they were to busy chasing down problems that we as beta testers deemed to be more important. But because it was one of the top 10 requested things it will be included in the upcoming PCE edition. NHRA definitely has some potential but its a shame they didn't take into account the things that others in this group have mentioned. I will also add a few more, frequent lockups requiring you to re-boot your system, menuing freezes and not clearing the competiton ladder when you move onto the next event in a season. Pete

> I don't really think many people want to hear about how shocked > you or any beta tester is. I think what they would like is your help > in getting 3dfx cards to work and getting the gas/brake working. Amen. I don't think i could agree more. While yes it _is_ our spending dollar and we are free to do with it as we want, i don't think i know of any better place than USENET to express a person's complete dissatisfaction with a product, along with the associated bugs and reasons why a person is flaming the thing in the first place. Come on Tantrum. This and Burnout are the only 2 drag racing sims out there, unless you count Top Fuel Eliminator from _way_ back in the days of the Commodore 64 (crappy graphics, overhead view only when racing, but the gameplay was incredibly ***ive). I already have Burnout, and due tot he lack of actual _realistic_ beahaving fuel classes, was intently waiting on this sim. I've returned it for now to the store i purchased it at to see if any patches will be released before i pick it up again. That's just too damn many bigs to deal with. -jch

The best place to express your dissatisfaction is with the retailer from whom you bought the product....the same as any other purchase that you make that you may be unhappy with. The retailer then pushes this matter further up the line as loud as possible and, if he is getting flooded by returned goods and serious complaints, the retailer usually gets his backside into motion quick smart! > i don't think i know of any > better place than USENET to express a person's complete dissatisfaction > with a product, along with the associated bugs and reasons why a person is > flaming the thing in the first place. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

>Should the *testers* have a fix? Do the qualifications of a tester >include coding experience, not to mention Tantrum's source code? They certainly have more experience with the product. So tell us, what does tantrum say about 3dfx and pedal support? Certainly they did not release a product that was lacking (broken) in these 2 areas. I guess I was dumb enough to think one of the NHRA testers would have asked tantrum for a fix for these problems. That seems to be how it works in the burnout side of PC drag racing. Sorry if that is expecting too much. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

As mentioned earlier, I wasn't among the testers for NHRA, but know that the problems described were addressed (control problems, delayed menus, proper 3Dfx support, lack of any multiplay, etc.). None were fixed, however. If they release the patches (as promised), then it might be a worthwhile sim (for those who own 3Dfx and T2's).

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> They certainly have more experience with the product. So tell us, > what does tantrum say about 3dfx and pedal support? Certainly > they did not release a product that was lacking (broken) in these > 2 areas. I guess I was dumb enough to think one of the NHRA > testers would have asked tantrum for a fix for these problems. > That seems to be how it works in the burnout side of PC drag > racing. Sorry if that is expecting too much.

-- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

I'll agree with the "***ive" on that! Does anybody know if there's a PC version of that game? I know the arcade videogame guys have emulators and ROMs, and was wondering if there were such a thing for the old Commodore games... (Gunship was another ***ive title) :) <we now return to our regular rants... > "There are those who race.....and those who watch..... I don't watch!" Xman FMDRS #25 Super Street (Attitudes adjusted in 10.90 seconds)

Yes there are commodore emulators out there on the net, although you have to also find the game. I was unable to find Top Fuel Eliminator about six months ago, but it may be available now. If you find it fill us all in Thanks Tom Braksator

Hey Bruce, where's your shop again? I'm comin' round to get a copy of NHRA and will be back the next day giving you heaps! :)

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> The best place to express your dissatisfaction is with the retailer from > whom you bought the product....the same as any other purchase that you > make that you may be unhappy with. > The retailer then pushes this matter further up the line as loud as > possible and, if he is getting flooded by returned goods and serious > complaints, the retailer usually gets his backside into motion quick > smart!

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> The best place to express your dissatisfaction is with the retailer from > whom you bought the product....the same as any other purchase that you > make that you may be unhappy with. > The retailer then pushes this matter further up the line as loud as > possible and, if he is getting flooded by returned goods and serious > complaints, the retailer usually gets his backside into motion quick > smart!

i think i know 1 out of 6 retailers in my area that actually take software back/refund money for returned software. so, aside from everyone going out and buying a buggy product, and then having to live with it, and only _then_ letting someone know there's a problem, i'd say a usenet forum where seemingly intelligent people gather to share information is an infinitely better place to let the people know and prevent any further purchases of the same buggy/problemed piece of software by other people who don't know anything about the game except for what they've seen in magazine ads.. a retailer such as best buy isn't going to give a ***whether or not a person purchasing a game didn't like it or not. and i live 1500 miles away from the corporate best buy headquarters. -jch

> I'll agree with the "***ive" on that! Does anybody know if there's a PC > version of that game? I know the arcade videogame guys have emulators and ROMs, > and was wondering if there were such a thing for the old Commodore games... yes, there is. i'm sure any web search on commodore emulators will yield something, and i've used it before. basically some small tweaks are allt hat's needed to have the game as smoothly as the day it was released back in 198x. ;) there's even a schematic diagram on how to build a cable to have the emulator program access your printer port access a 1541/1571 disk drive. -jch

I was talking about BURNOUT NOT NHRA. I love the***pit view in NHRA.

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> There is a***pit view in NHRA and it is bland with nothing special to > see! > We were told by beta testers for NHRA how great it would be and it was too > bad Burnout > couldn't have it! Well I for one have gone to using the same view in NHRA > as we have in > Burnout and found it preferable to the***pit view. > As far as***pits for Burnout go there wasn't enough time to get it done > in the > first few patches as they were to busy chasing down problems that we as > beta testers > deemed to be more important. But because it was one of the top 10 requested > things > it will be included in the upcoming PCE edition. > NHRA definitely has some potential but its a shame they didn't take into > account > the things that others in this group have mentioned. I will also add a few > more, frequent > lockups requiring you to re-boot your system, menuing freezes and not > clearing the competiton > ladder when you move onto the next event in a season. > Pete > > If they listen to you so well where was the***pit view.

As I said in the post, Burnout didn't have a***pit because of time constraints! It will in the upcoming release as was requested by users. The***pit view in NHRA is as I said, bland with nothing special to see! But to each is own!

>As mentioned earlier, I wasn't among the testers for NHRA, but know >that the problems described were addressed (control problems, delayed >menus, proper 3Dfx support, lack of any multiplay, etc.). None were >fixed, however. If they release the patches (as promised), then it >might be a worthwhile sim (for those who own 3Dfx and T2's). I agree and am waiting for the fixes before I buy. Thanks. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.