Hi there!
I really adore racing, and am trying to buy new racing sims
as soon as they are out. I used to be an Amiga user, and I
guess one of the biggest reasons for converting to PC's was
GP2. I really enjoy it, but it's too slow even with my, now
not any longer the speed deamon 200MMX. SO I was really glad
when f1rs came out. By the way, I also LOVE GPL, because of
it's realistic feeling.
However I have been trying to PERSUADE myself that I like
f1rs, but even thoug it has many things to setup, some
tracks compared to real life don't seem right, the colours
are such that everybody is asking me if it's and arcade
racer, and the worst of all, I can't get to love the car's
physics. Just can't
What does the rest of the group think about this!
Thanks a lot for your oppinions!!
Is F1 Racing Simulation a real sim? Endless spins debated
A GP2 fan asked whether F1 Racing Simulation was a real simulator. A critic said its endless power spins showed a weak physics model, and others replied that real F1 cars can do doughnuts and that the demo lacked setups. Most agreed the spin behaviour was a minor low-speed flaw in an otherwise excellent sim, and the 1.09 patch was said to reduce grass slowdown.
Automated summary.
I found that I really started to enjoy F1RS when I began to turn off the driver
aids and got more involved in the physics of the car. Nothing is more
satisfying than a good race in F1RS, except maybe 2 consecutive laps without
crashing in GPL!
Don
I think I know how you feel. I started out with GP1 on the amiga
and the move to GP1 and GP2 on the PC was easy. I got F1RS a few
weeks ago and expected to have little trouble going around the
circuits but I feel as though I have regressed a lot. In fact I
think I might play F1RS better had I never played GP2. Many of the
bends can be approached at totally different speeds, which for me
means going off the track a lot due to severe understeer.
I'm now playing the game in easy mode and feel as though I am
making some progress. My main problem with F1RS is the ease at
which spins occur, it seems very difficult not to involve a 360
degree spin when going off the circuit. Have you noticed that if
you keep your gas pedal down you will spin in a circle forever -
which is how I get myself to point the right way after a spin.
Don't really have a problem with the games graphics. Infact they
F1RS vs GP2? I think I'm edging into the F1RS camp. Had I never
played GP2 then I imagine the decision would be much simpler.
Oh and atleast UBISOFT provide support for the game after its hit
the shelves (Re: patches and web site). If GP3 and F1RS-2 came out
together and were mostly similar I think the UBISOFT support would
point me in their direction.
I seem to have gone off track here. Is F1RS a simulator? Sure, but
as (probably) nobody is this NG has ever really driven a F1 car
who can say how accurate things are. To me it seems more difficult
than it really would be (not competitively!), but I think that is
because of the physical and visual restrictions of emulating a car
on a PC.
If you get really down about things pick a copy of actua soccer2.
Its nearly June and Croatia are there! But no, it doesn't really
feel like playing soccer :-)
Jem
I just got it, and I really like it. I feel as though I can push the car
hard like in gp2, and can feel the little twitches in the steering, I can
feel the bumps in the roads, the only thing I don't like is it doesn't seem
to look as nice and clean as gp2. As far as setup and stuff goes, it is as
good as gp2, I also wish the AI was a little tougher or I wish we had more
difficulty levels.
Quoted text (20 lines)
>Hi there! >I really adore racing, and am trying to buy new racing sims >as soon as they are out. I used to be an Amiga user, and I >guess one of the biggest reasons for converting to PC's was >GP2. I really enjoy it, but it's too slow even with my, now >not any longer the speed deamon 200MMX. SO I was really glad >when f1rs came out. By the way, I also LOVE GPL, because of >it's realistic feeling. >However I have been trying to PERSUADE myself that I like >f1rs, but even thoug it has many things to setup, some >tracks compared to real life don't seem right, the colours >are such that everybody is asking me if it's and arcade >racer, and the worst of all, I can't get to love the car's >physics. Just can't >What does the rest of the group think about this! >Thanks a lot for your oppinions!!IMHO, F1RS is not a simulator.
The demo just doesn't feel realistic. As an example, I can easily enter an
eternal spin (unlike GP2). They appear to lack a real physics model.
Regards,
Eric Ulevik
>However I have been trying to PERSUADE myself that I like
>f1rs, but even thoug it has many things to setup, some
>tracks compared to real life don't seem right, the colours
>are such that everybody is asking me if it's and arcade
>racer, and the worst of all, I can't get to love the car's
>physics. Just can't
Quoted text (7 lines)
> I really adore racing, and am trying to buy new racing sims > as soon as they are out. I used to be an Amiga user, and I > guess one of the biggest reasons for converting to PC's was > GP2. I really enjoy it, but it's too slow even with my, now > not any longer the speed deamon 200MMX. SO I was really glad > when f1rs came out. By the way, I also LOVE GPL, because of > it's realistic feeling.I've been in an eternal spin most of my life and believe me, it's no
simulation! :-)
> IMHO, F1RS is not a simulator.
> The demo just doesn't feel realistic. As an example, I can easily enter an
> eternal spin (unlike GP2). They appear to lack a real physics model.
--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/
>IMHO, F1RS is not a simulator.
>The demo just doesn't feel realistic.
You shouldn't be judging the game by the demo, because you can't use
any setups with it.
Well what should we use the demo for?
Steve
Get the 3DFX, it is justifiable. when I added one to my P75 (about 6 months
ago now) the increase in speed AND graphics was just incredible.Especially
worth it now you can get very cheap voodoo 1 cards.
Steve
Eric Ulevik wrote
PLEASE.....
You just said 2 cursed words who don't make your opinion very good.
F1RS and Demo.
The demo and real simulator is day and night.
Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
--"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--
I guess what you want to say then is that LucasArts' Tie Fighter was a
very bad game because the demo stunk, right? You probably also think
that Grand Prix Legends will be a poor game, I mean what good is a
driving sim where you are driving alone? That's what you are doing in
the GPL demo.
You get my drift already, or do you want some other examples? :-)
>Well what should we use the demo for?
>Steve
>>You shouldn't be judging the game by the demo, because you can't use
>>any setups with it.
>>IMHO, F1RS is not a simulator.
>>The demo just doesn't feel realistic.
>You shouldn't be judging the game by the demo, because you can't use
>any setups with it.
Sure, but you can still spin forever in the real version, right?
Which to me means non-realistic physics model. In other words, not a
simulator.
Quoted text (9 lines)
> >>IMHO, F1RS is not a simulator. > >>The demo just doesn't feel realistic. > >You shouldn't be judging the game by the demo, because you can't use > >any setups with it. > Sure, but you can still spin forever in the real version, right? > Which to me means non-realistic physics model. In other words, not a > simulator.>Sure, but you can still spin forever in the real version, right?
>Which to me means non-realistic physics model. In other words, not a
>simulator.
Have you driven a real F1 car to make such a statement?
Hey mate you don`t know what your talking about,F1RS is the BEST F1
simulation out there,if you want to spin forever,then yes you can,but you
dan`t have to,so don`t do it,anyway have you never seen a racing car doing
doughnuts?
Quoted text (9 lines)
>>>IMHO, F1RS is not a simulator. >>>The demo just doesn't feel realistic. >>You shouldn't be judging the game by the demo, because you can't use >>any setups with it. >Sure, but you can still spin forever in the real version, right? >Which to me means non-realistic physics model. In other words, not a >simulator.On Tue, 12 May 1998 08:25:54 +1000, "Eric Ulevik"
I once saw an MPG of Schumacher spinning his Benetton round
and round at Brandenburger Tor.
Which to me means non-realistic physics model. In other words,
not reality.
Quoted text (9 lines)
>>>IMHO, F1RS is not a simulator. >>>The demo just doesn't feel realistic. >>You shouldn't be judging the game by the demo, because you can't use >>any setups with it. >Sure, but you can still spin forever in the real version, right? >Which to me means non-realistic physics model. In other words, not a >simulator.> IMHO, F1RS is not a simulator.
> The demo just doesn't feel realistic. As an example, I can easily enter an
> eternal spin (unlike GP2). They appear to lack a real physics model.
You are absolutely right. My experience is with the sim, not
the demo.
I've always loved to drive cars *** the twisty roads in
the mountains around Portland. I have never seen a sim capture
the feeling of driving a real car on the edge like F1RS. There
is something delicious about pushing against the edge of adhesion
of the tires. It's the most fun I've ever had in a racing sim.
Some argue that the edge between adhesion and loss of control
would be very narrow in a light, winged, fat wheeled formula one
car. It's wide enough to play in with F1RS. Until I get some
lap time in an Ferrari 310B, I can't say it accurately models one
of them, but it accurately models an extreme performance, sweet
handling, automobile. The AI behaves as I would like.
But what good is that? The spin model for cutting cookies
in the product exhibits the behavior you found in the demo.
DON'T GET THIS GAME.
I'm going racing. Time to practice for Monaco.
I LOVE F1RS.
Larry
Only thing is in F1RS you can spin for ever on the road, grass and
sandtraps. Also in a real car you can only do powered spins by applying
full lock, but in F1RS once you're in the spin you can move the steering
wheel all you want and the spin keeps going.
It's just a little bug. I don't think it detracts from an excellent game
and I don't think its any basis to reject the main physics of the
simulation. I mean you can't stall is F1RS and so you're able to pull
away in top gear!! I that real? No. But we're all happy accept it.
Jem
> IMO neither GP2 or F1RS are "real" simulators because there is no way I
> could sit behind the wheel of a real F1 and drive it as fast as I can in
> these games (I probably wouldn't get past the first corner). But GP2 has
> given me many hours of enjoyment and I hope F1RS will do the same
> Jeff
I think some of the better sim racers would do quite well in real cars. So long as
they had enough seat time and remembered there is no restart key when you write yourself
off - just an ambulance or an undertaker or at least a very pissed off team owner :))
>Hey mate you don`t know what your talking about,F1RS is the BEST F1
>simulation out there,if you want to spin forever,then yes you can,but you
>dan`t have to,so don`t do it,anyway have you never seen a racing car doing
>doughnuts?
Not with the front wheels turned in the opposite direction of the
spin. While this doesn't mean F1RS is not a simulator to me (just not
a total simulation), I wouldn't defend this obvious design flaw in the
low speed driving model (read canned spins).
DS
>> IMHO, F1RS is not a simulator. [] As an example, I can easily enter an
>> eternal spin (unlike GP2). They appear to lack a real physics model.
> It's the most fun I've ever had in a racing sim. []
> But what good is that? The spin model for cutting cookies
>in the product exhibits the behavior you found in the demo.
Thanks for the informative comments. I was concerned that the poor spin
model highlighted a core deficiency. Apparently it's just a special case.
This is quite encouraging; time to head to the store!
Regards,
Eric Ulevik
What upsets me is that Villeneuve can go across the kerb get two wheel
on the dirt and grass and come back onto the track, with no
'noticeable' loss of speed and no spin.
I know I'm not JV, but the game would have slowed him down as much as
me if he drove off the track.
The loss of speed on grass, and the readiness to enter wild spins,
which invariably end pointing against the traffic, do detract from my
enjoyment of an otherwise great game.
If you are driving raggedly you won't win anyway. Being a bit kinder
on us would give more encouragement to keep trying.
regards
Graham
Quoted text (7 lines)
>This leads to the question: Do these "canned" spins occur on the track? >Well in my case the answer is a definate NO. I have only seen a simlilar >thing when beached on a curb, and when on the grass. However as I said >before I think these spins are caused by the fact that the curbs are >raised and the grass is rough, not mixing well with the low ground >clearance of the F1 car, causing some of the wheels to be off the >ground.Quoted text (13 lines)
> What upsets me is that Villeneuve can go across the kerb get two wheel > on the dirt and grass and come back onto the track, with no > 'noticeable' loss of speed and no spin. > I know I'm not JV, but the game would have slowed him down as much as > me if he drove off the track. > The loss of speed on grass, and the readiness to enter wild spins, > which invariably end pointing against the traffic, do detract from my > enjoyment of an otherwise great game. > If you are driving raggedly you won't win anyway. Being a bit kinder > on us would give more encouragement to keep trying.>What upsets me is that Villeneuve can go across the kerb get two wheel
>on the dirt and grass and come back onto the track, with no
>'noticeable' loss of speed and no spin.
But when Hakkinen had his two tires touch the grass, he had a
noticeable slowdown, lost his pole position because of that.
I haven't noticed this "wild spins" in F1RS. I'm playing it in expert
level with no aids enabled.
No, Hakkinen was just slower on average. This isn't due one minor slop.
Some of my fastest Q times were done in the "heat of the moment" with maybe
a couple O'Wheels off on a spot or two. If your not on THE one and only
ragged edge, why drive at all? How long you can stay there is the key to
the big, long, hard 'W' (Schumaker)! Followed (if your lucky too) by the
'C' word. Watch Wurz (Upncomer)!I think Jaques will be coming back to U.S.
in a season or two.
Not any relation to Spam, -TG-
PS <g>!
Quoted text (11 lines)
> >What upsets me is that Villeneuve can go across the kerb get two wheel > >on the dirt and grass and come back onto the track, with no > >'noticeable' loss of speed and no spin. > But when Hakkinen had his two tires touch the grass, he had a > noticeable slowdown, lost his pole position because of that. > >The loss of speed on grass, and the readiness to enter wild spins, > >which invariably end pointing against the traffic, do detract from my > I haven't noticed this "wild spins" in F1RS. I'm playing it in expert > level with no aids enabled.Your an idiot, if you start a spin in a particular direction, it doesn't
matter what you do with the front wheels. The loss of grip on the rear
wheels perpetuates the beginning movement.
--
------Snow White--------
Oops! I forgot to press the IFF!
Quoted text (11 lines)
> >Hey mate you don`t know what your talking about,F1RS is the BEST F1 > >simulation out there,if you want to spin forever,then yes you can,but you > >dan`t have to,so don`t do it,anyway have you never seen a racing car doing > >doughnuts? > Not with the front wheels turned in the opposite direction of the > spin. While this doesn't mean F1RS is not a simulator to me (just not > a total simulation), I wouldn't defend this obvious design flaw in the > low speed driving model (read canned spins). > DSOK I've got the patch now so I'll give it a spin :-)
Graham
Quoted text (13 lines)
>> What upsets me is that Villeneuve can go across the kerb get two wheel >> on the dirt and grass and come back onto the track, with no >> 'noticeable' loss of speed and no spin. >> I know I'm not JV, but the game would have slowed him down as much as >> me if he drove off the track. >I tried it with patch V1.09 and now I can put both wheels of one side >on the grass with almost no loss in speed. Of course, you shouldn't >accelerate, brake or steer excessivly while on the grass... >l8er >ronny>No, Hakkinen was just slower on average. This isn't due one minor slop.
Wrong, Hakkinen was going for pole position, he was well ahead of
David Coulthart in checkpoints, but touching the grass at the final
straight slowed him down enough to lose pole position. DC got it
instead, since that was Hakkinen's last qualification round.
< Snip >
I love F1RS, it would be nice if it modeled flat spots. One
save like you describe, and you have problems until you change
your tires.
I don't really know what flat spotting feels and drives like,
but I think it can be modeled.
Larry
