cpr vs f1rs

hiya, i would just like to warn all f1rs owners who are thinking of purchasing cpr, don't!, it should be renamed ***precison racing. after shelling out 35quid today it took me an hour to realize what a pile of bollocks cpr is. i have enojoyed both icr1&2 in the past, and was expecting great things from cpr:( to note problems were lack of fps on a PII-233 with 3dfx card and 96mb ram, f1rs just flows buy on this spec, with cpr i was getting between 15 and 25 fps with sky turned off and cars only in mirrors racing against 23 other drivers. i have build 90 which is the latest, track graphics had constant bugs, the funny thing is i know these tracks well and i couldn't see where i was going. ubisoft should use cpr as a yardstick to show just how good f1rs is, i love cart racing as much as f1, and would have loved another great sim, but forget it this is shit. ozie

<snip> I think you have found out what alot of us have also......I bought CPR about a month after F1RS, and really don't play it much. The graphics just don't look right to me, I have trouble distinguishing which walls are which at Long Beach, too much ***there.....some ovals have no graphics at all to them, just track and sky, very bland. And that damn "car touches wall and sticks like glue" effect. I have a PII 300mhz, and I get around 15-20 fps with the latest patch, all graphics on, with 26 cars, sometimes it drops to around 11fps in traffic. That sucks. F1RS runs so smooth. I have a Diamond Monster 3DFX, too. I don't even get the first turn jitters in F1RS like some report.....I will stick with F1RS, CPR is just wasted space on my hard drive. Craig Marcho

Yep... You guys are seeing the difference in Direct3D (CPR) and Glide (F1RS). Also another big difference is that IMHO the AI in F1RS is far better than CPR. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. ><snip> >> i love >>cart racing as much as f1, and would have loved another great sim, but >>forget it this is shit. >I think you have found out what alot of us have also......I bought CPR about >a month after F1RS, and really don't play it much. The graphics just don't >look right to me, I have trouble distinguishing which walls are which at >Long Beach, too much ***there.....some ovals have no graphics at all to >them, just track and sky, very bland. And that damn "car touches wall and >sticks like glue" effect. I have a PII 300mhz, and I get around 15-20 fps >with the latest patch, all graphics on, with 26 cars, sometimes it drops to >around 11fps in traffic. That sucks. F1RS runs so smooth. I have a Diamond >Monster 3DFX, too. I don't even get the first turn jitters in F1RS like some >report.....I will stick with F1RS, CPR is just wasted space on my hard >drive. >Craig Marcho

>Oh, and of course you're right about the AI in F1RS. its pretty darn >good. I believe this needs repeating as I once mentioned this and a couple of people "called" me on it :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>Yep... You guys are seeing the difference in Direct3D (CPR) >and Glide (F1RS). Also another big difference is that IMHO >the AI in F1RS is far better than CPR. Greg, Should have anticipated you using this one as a mandate for D3D v Glide. Now that I have both a Riva and a Monster 3D, I can tell you that while its definitely true that the Glide version of F1RS is much nicer than the D3D version of same, I can also tell you that in comparing D3D games, the performance of the Monster 3D is very lacking in comparison. I've done some D3D games against both cards and I see no need to use the Monster 3D for anything but Glide games now. Oh, and of course you're right about the AI in F1RS. its pretty darn good. Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

>Oh, and of course you're right about the AI in F1RS. its pretty darn >good. They're good at avoiding people but pretty ***at passing. I left a race running at Monaco (after I crashed out) and washed both Schumacher and "Driver X" following Badoer in a Forti for about twenty laps. They could pass neither Badoer nor each other, which seems a bit strange. Cheers! John

>They're good at avoiding people but pretty ***at passing. I left a >race running at Monaco (after I crashed out) and washed both >Schumacher and "Driver X" following Badoer in a Forti for about twenty >laps. They could pass neither Badoer nor each other, which seems a bit >strange. Well what do you expect? After all that is the very essence of F1 isn't it? Speaking of which... How did you crash out? Trying to do a pass would be my guess :-) I always think of Prost: "He should have known he could not pass me there". After he took Senna out in the last chicane at Suzuka. In other words I took that to mean that if someone tried to pass him on a close one he would not *EVEN* give up the corner, even if he lost the position. I hate drivers like that. Alesi seems to be another one. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>They're good at avoiding people but pretty ***at passing. I left a >race running at Monaco (after I crashed out) and washed both >Schumacher and "Driver X" following Badoer in a Forti for about twenty >laps. They could pass neither Badoer nor each other, which seems a bit >strange. Monaco isn't a particularly good example of where to pass! Ask the real drivers. Its hell there. I raced Melbourne last night, and after finally flattening a tire I decided to just watch the rest of the race by alternating TV camera views to find the good fights. I saw lots of good ones, and I can tell you that the faster cars were ALL OVER the slower cars, making very daring moves to get by. It took Hakkinen a couple of laps to get by Frentzen (this is 1996 teams remember) and he was all over Frentzen's mirrors trying to peek to the inside going into turns, trying to get alongside during straights, etc. He finally pulled it off, but not before he braked too deep into a slow turn and nearly lost it as he slid, locked up, past the apex, and barely saved it to get back in front of Frentzen. And I saw a lot more of this. I was thinking how real it looked. Perhaps Monaco is just so pass-hostile you didn't get to see some of the great battles I did. Randy

>and barely saved it to get back in front of Frentzen. And I saw a >lot more of this. I was thinking how real it looked. Perhaps Monaco >is just so pass-hostile you didn't get to see some of the great >battles I did. So um... What kind of review do you figure F1RS is gonna get now? I seem to remember someone saying (or at least giving the impression) that is wasn't going to be a very good one. I think not in line with the current NG's way of thinking (to paraphrase). Hehe... -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Greg, The D3D version as it stood in previous patches (up through 1.05) was going to get dinged for uneven frame rates, crashes with the mirrors on, and some other problems. As I originally said, I'd point out that I had to take the word of Glide owners that it was significantly better in these areas and would point that out in my review. Given that I now have a Monster 3D and have spent many hours with the sim, my outlook is brighter (and I don't have to take anyone's word for it :) ). I've also re-tested with D3D and I can also say nicer things about the problems that were encountered in earlier patches. The reason no review is out yet is because it is still not shipping software in the U.S. We don't know what, if anything, has been done to the U.S. version because its not out yet. At such time as a final U.S. version is out, I'll write a review of it, and you can bet that its going to be a comprehensive review. Right now, I'm really loving F1RS 1.07UK. Its an incredibly good sim that has the bases covered very well....Its hard for me to imagine giving it anything less than very high marks at this point, because Ubi Soft has worked so hard at addressing problems with timely patch after timely patch. The fact that they've done all this BEFORE releasing it to the U.S. just means that U.S. domestic customers are going to get a product that has undergone a fair amount of refinement since its first release in Europe. (Granted, European customers might not be as thrilled at having been guinea pigs, but hey they've at least gotten to race a great sim in the meantime!). Randy Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com/

>Yep... You guys are seeing the difference in Direct3D (CPR) >and Glide (F1RS). Also another big difference is that IMHO >the AI in F1RS is far better than CPR. Greg - the AI is better than that in GP2 and vastly superior to the ridiculous version in CPR (I'm another sucker that wasted 50). The only problem with F1RS is that the cc are every bit as slow in GP2. It's not that much fun lapping them all at least twice per race. It just needs a percentage slider like ICR2. Regards -- Neil Charlton http://www.charlt.demon.co.uk/ --

ridiculous version in CPR (I'm another sucker that wasted 50). The only problem with F1RS is that the cc are every bit as slow in GP2. It's not that much fun lapping them all at least twice per race. It just needs a percentage slider like ICR2 >>. You have one. Its called "Horsepower" and is found in the setup menu. The AI cars run real-world lap times at the Expert settings, but of course we simheads usually break those times sooner or later. So, either select an inferior team or just reduce the horsepower in your setups. That is no more and no less realistic than setting opponent speed% to 105% Randy Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com/

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>They're good at avoiding people but pretty ***at passing. I left a >race running at Monaco (after I crashed out) and washed both >Schumacher and "Driver X" following Badoer in a Forti for about twenty >laps. They could pass neither Badoer nor each other, which seems a bit >strange. >Cheers! >John

Were you racing on expert mode? The aggressiveness of the AI is very different at this level. They will try to pass at every reasonable chance. At this level, they'll avoid accidents, but they don't "avoid" simply to make it easier to pass them. I've seen them make very bold passes against me and the other AI. -- Kevin (Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:44:20 -0600, "Greg Cisko" >Well what do you expect? After all that is the very essence of F1 >isn't it? I've never yet seen Michael Schumacher spend 10 laps stuck behind a backmarker unable to pass. Even if he was racing for position he has such a performance and ability advantage coupled to his confidence and aggression that he would be past, and since the backmarker should be co-operating this should be a foregone conclusion. If the AI can't race each other how are they going to race unpredictable little me? Don't get me wrong, I think the AI are pretty good - I was just pointing out the one flaw I think they do have. They don't race each other and they try to hard to stay out of your way if you lunge. (Okay that's two...!). Speaking of which... How did you crash out? Trying to Lost concentration and bounced over the kerbs at Nouvelle Chicane. The t-boning was the painful part! Actually Prost was entirely the opposite. He had been totally stitched up by Senna at every opportunity, since Senna gave the option of "let me through or we'll crash", and Prost had always let him through. Prost eventually got pissed off with it, and started fighting back. Remember the '93 Hockenheim race when Senna tried a lunge into the Ostkurve chicane, and Prost held his line not only long enough to keep the place but alson long enough to force Senna into a spin. I wasn't happy about that, but Senna had done that to Prost more than enough times I think. I miss those battles :-) Cheers! John

>Perhaps Monaco >is just so pass-hostile you didn't get to see some of the great >battles I did. Possibly, but then this too is a problem since even in GP2 you see passing if the performance or aggression differential is enough. Undoubtedly Schumacher was all over the back of Badoer and jinking left and right, but at no time did he really have a go. Alesi made one pass of a backmarker and it was a BIG moment almost resulting in a crash. The problem is that I had no such problems fighting through traffic and soon built a huge lead thanks to that. I just lunged, and the AI stayed out of my way. Cheers! John

I'm glad they did. The problems of F1RS that have been addressed by the patch weren't so bad as to have made it unplayable, and I'm happy to have had the chance to spend time with it. Cheers! John

>Greg - the AI is better than that in GP2 and vastly superior to the >ridiculous version in CPR I actually preferred GP2 as far as _racing_ goes, since the CCs seemed better at harrassing and finding ways around me. Beyond that it's pretty subjective, and both are among the best AI available. Cheers! John

<Sniff> Kevin, I'm hurt. Of course I was racing on expert mode ;-) That wasn't my experience when racing at Monaco, but I'll need to try a few other tracks and see how they race at them. Cheers! John

Heh you decided to get yout BORL name anothe time ;-)) Why do I have the feeling it's only me who gets "crash-free" mirrors ? heh btw John look no more binary attached to my posts !!! Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard on NROS> Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ May the downforce be with you and Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

Thanks Francois ;-) BTW, did you mean to ask "Where is the CPR track-editor", when the release was announced a couple of hours before you wrote your message...? :-) Cheers! John