Will there -ever- be a GP2 machine...

Well, I don't know how you're doing it. I'm running a 200MHz AMD K6 on a turn off is the sky, and excepting when there's smoke around, GP2 runs like a dream in SVGA. Psycho

Pretty much the same here with my 233 mmx. -- Don Burnette I-65 Racing Dburn on Ten snip

I thought I'd try a little experiment the other day... A friend has just got a Dell PII-300 with 64Mb SDRAM, 8Mb Millennium 2 and 3Dfx card. He's no sim fan but I took what are probably the three most popular sims around for a peek an a monster piece of kit. All tests run under Win95 with IE4. F1RS: Simply flawless. Runs totally maxxed out, with replays and no tweaks, and there's not even a hint at a stutter. That start line slowdown? Nothing. Not at Monaco, not at Spa, nowhere. I want to upgrade my P200. N2: Once again, a joy to behold. I have a Rendition (V1000) card in my PC along with the Righteous, so the image quality was not as good on the PII, but it stomped all over mine as regards framerate. Once again, Maxxed out graphic detail, 39 cars (that's all of 'em) displayed in front, 5 behind, and everything was smooth as you like (apart from those non-accellerator enhanced textures). Even full screen replays didn't cause it headaches. I'd love to see this with the 3Dfx patch. Not for the framerates (they can't be improved), but for the image quality. Who do I sell to further line Intel's pockets? GP2: Well, after the success of the previous 2 we went on to the oldest kid on this particular block. Let's bung it into 640x480 with full detail, set to 21.n fps, at Monaco... I didn't take notes so forgive my approximate percentages and non-exact framerate settings. Sitting on the back of the grid before the start, about 166% processor occupancy (po). It only gets worse when things start to move, with smoke being drawn, cars getting close. Way over 200% po at times. ON A PII-300!! OK, OK, we all know that smoke and sky kill GP2, so switch them off. And most everything in the mirrors. And track textures. And verges and kerbs. And lower the (recommended >25.n) framerates to 19.n. So WAY below max detail, then. I refuse to switch off entire chunks of scenery. Start again at the back at Monaco. Race underway, huge slowdown. Almost constantly over 150% po when close to other cars. How did this game get the reviews it did, when, almost two years down the line there -still- is no PC the can run it comfortably at high detail settings? F1RS and Psygnosis F1 (bad game, I know) have been marked down for their system requirements, but they run better, at higher detail levels, on kit that is AVAILABLE TODAY. It looks to me like GP2 will always have to be compromised. This isn't a knock on GP2, and I'm not after "well it must be your setup, because I get 472 fps on my P133" flames, it just scares me to think what kind of ultra-horrific monster of a ninja PC GP3 will eat. Thought you guys might find it interesting. Cheers Mark Reading, UK

Hmmmm..... Reminds me a little of NASCAR 1, only now after all tihs time do i finally have the kit to run it full detail (SVGA), and it doesnt matter anymore cos nascar 2 is out. Perhaps microprose will manage the same as papyrus did and get GP3 to look better and run faster than GP2. p.s. i know u weren't looking for this, but on my 233 MMX GP2 runs fine most of time (except the start at monaco) with all detail minus sky and 1 level of trackside objects.

Thought you might be interested to note the following things: 1) Try turning on 39 opponents in mirrors and see if you still get the same frame rates in N2. Your machine should handle it, I'm just curious. 2) I have a P2 266 with a Riva 128 graphic board AND a Monster 3d. In GP2, with all details on, 640X480, I get about 110-120 occupancy from the back of the grid. If I shut off hills, I get 90 throughout the whole race. The only time it goes up, (the max is 150) is if I personally spin and can see the smoke off my own tires in front of me. Any one else's smoke does not effect occupancy. Personally I would have though a P2 300 would finally handle this game once and for all. Maybe the Matrox isn't all it is cracked up to be. By the way, try running this game in pure dos mode, I bet your occupancy goes down ALOT!

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>Hmmmm..... >Reminds me a little of NASCAR 1, only now after all tihs time do i finally >have the kit to run it full detail (SVGA), and it doesnt matter anymore cos >nascar 2 is out. Perhaps microprose will manage the same as papyrus did and >get GP3 to look better and run faster than GP2. >p.s. i know u weren't looking for this, but on my 233 MMX GP2 runs fine most >of time (except the start at monaco) with all detail minus sky and 1 level >of trackside objects.

Gotta agree with this post and the others like it. GP2 runs just fine on my K6-200/32 meg RAM/Matrox Mystique 2 meg/IT5H mainboard system. This is not to say "nyah, nyah" my system's better than yours. Instead, it points out something I've seen over and over again with GP2 -- it seems to like certain systems better than others, apparently with no rhyme or reason. Maybe it's really the first cousin of Windows 95! ;-) Jack

Even Monaco? He's talking about the start at Monaco so I can see this being true. GP2 runs smooth on my P200 83mhz bus machine with some details off (smoke, clouds, medium detail), but not Monaco. Actually I think there is a graphics conversion available somewhere that removes the buildings at Monaco just for this reason. -- Nos http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

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> Hmmmm..... > Reminds me a little of NASCAR 1, only now after all tihs time do i f > inally > have the kit to run it full detail (SVGA), and it doesnt matter anym > ore cos > nascar 2 is out. Perhaps microprose will manage the same as papyrus > did and > get GP3 to look better and run faster than GP2. > p.s. i know u weren't looking for this, but on my 233 MMX GP2 runs f > ine most > of time (except the start at monaco) with all detail minus sky and 1 > level > of trackside objects.

Gp2 runs *great* on my system (K6 200 o/c to 225, with TX m/b & 32Mb SDram & 4Mb Mystique). The desription of GP2 running poorly on a pII300 system sounds as though the set-up may not be optimised for games? All the good GP2 websites have comparisons of GP2's performance on different systems, and it should fly on a 300 MHz pc, with no probs at all? Check them out to see what sort of performance is being achieved, and compare to those, rather than just saying it runs crap, so I don't like it, which is not very constructive IMO! 8?) * Peter * 8-) Please remove asterix from address to email.

> All the graphics in the world don't matter if they don't move. And on a decent system, the graphics do move, so whats the problem? Theres nothing like constructive critisism is there....... Jeez, just goes to show how good GP2 is/was, as people are still commenting on it, even after it has supposedly been superceded by all the other F1 games/sims? (Remember some of them? Power F1, Formula One, etc) I don't know why people cannot just say hey, look, I don't like GP2, simple. Instead they have to whine and moan and whinge, If you don't like it, don't drive it, simple isn't it? No-one holds a gun at your backs forcing you to use a program you don't like or appreciate? I've come across plenty of games/sims I don't like, I tried them, decided they were not for me, stopped using them and that was it, end of story. If someone has a query about one of those programs, I leave it up to the people that use the program to make comments, as they generally know far more about them than I do. Whats the point of whining for your whole life? GP2, was, and still is, *THE* benchmark that all other similar games/sims are compared to. And despite having F1RS since it was released, and playing it to death, I'm still not convinced that GP2 has lost the top spot? F1RS has it's faults too, as does *every* game and sim on the market, there is no such thing as the *perfect* game/sim, and probably never will be. 8?) * Peter * 8-) Please remove asterix from address to email.

>And on a decent system, the graphics do move, so whats the problem? >Theres nothing like constructive critisism is there....... >I don't know why people cannot just say hey, look, I don't like GP2, >simple. Instead they have to whine and moan and whinge, If you don't >like it, don't drive it, simple isn't it? No-one holds a gun at your >backs forcing you to use a program you don't like or appreciate? Where did he say he doesn't like it. He was simply saying that at Monaco it still runs poorly even on the latest hardware. I'd call that constructive. -- Nos http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

I just bought GP2 yesterday and I'm having a blast with it! The thing runs great on my 233mmx, milleniumII and 64 ram. I run in svga with all graphics on except sky, turn off everything in the mirrors and then turn on the items I want until it effects frame rate. I'm afraid I've replaced my ol' favorite,icr2..I haven't seen F1RS yet, but I may wait a bit longer before I buy it now! PS. Yeah, the first turn at Monaco is a bit strange, but I'm not nearly good enough to really notice it yet<g>. It's probebly the only reason I make it through there with my front wings intact! don

says... Agreed, I know most of the people who complain about the framerate on r.a.s still love the game. They'd just love it a whole lot more... Oh, and as for 'decent' machine, give the guy a break. 'Decent' machines are different every month. Brian

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>>And on a decent system, the graphics do move, so whats the problem? >>Theres nothing like constructive critisism is there....... >>I don't know why people cannot just say hey, look, I don't like GP2, >>simple. Instead they have to whine and moan and whinge, If you don't >>like it, don't drive it, simple isn't it? No-one holds a gun at your >>backs forcing you to use a program you don't like or appreciate? >Where did he say he doesn't like it. He was simply saying that at >Monaco it still runs poorly even on the latest hardware. I'd call that >constructive. >-- >Nos >http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

-- remove 'bye' from address to reply

I heard rumours that Intel managed to get GP2 running with everything year. ;-) Regards Andrew

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> says... > Agreed, I know most of the people who complain about the framerate on r.a.s > still love the game. They'd just love it a whole lot more... > Oh, and as for 'decent' machine, give the guy a break. 'Decent' machines are > different every month. > Brian > >>And on a decent system, the graphics do move, so whats the problem? > >>Theres nothing like constructive critisism is there....... > >>I don't know why people cannot just say hey, look, I don't like GP2, > >>simple. Instead they have to whine and moan and whinge, If you don't > >>like it, don't drive it, simple isn't it? No-one holds a gun at your > >>backs forcing you to use a program you don't like or appreciate? > >Where did he say he doesn't like it. He was simply saying that at > >Monaco it still runs poorly even on the latest hardware. I'd call that > >constructive. > >-- > >Nos > >http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html > -- > remove 'bye' from address to reply

Pete, listen to yourself, My system is "Decent". I have 3 different CPU's that I swap around, K6-233, Cx-233-M2, and Right Now a Pentium 233MMX. 128MB SDRAM, ATX-TX chipset Motherboard (SOYO), Canopus Total 3D 128v and Pure 3D, maybe a half a dozen sound cards, right now using a SIIG Sound Pro PCI Ensoniq card, A 21" Mitsubshi monitor (91txm) Adaptec 2490UW and 2 7200rpm USCSI Seagate hard disks. Now, when I buy a game with my HARD EARNED money, and my system won't run it adequately, that makes it a peice of shit. Well, at least when I use F1rs and theres another car on the screen, the action doesn't stop. Because I spent MY MONEY for it and it didn't live up to what it was supposed to be. So if you buy a game and it doesn't do what it is supposed to, you just think that's OK and go buy something else??? Like GP2 not running adequately on any system made today?? Pete, this is the trouble with games like this. They get used as a benchmark rather than a simulator. "Want to test your system. Get GP2, if it runs AT ALL, you must have a real nice system." Kind of like early Quake. When a game is considered a benchmark program more than a game, it's not much of a game. I like to use driving sims that don't slow down in the turns. Kinda defeats the purpose. And the deal of not having the game drop frames when the detail is too much for the machine to handle and going into a time warp is entirely too much for me to deal with. My $50.00 gives me the right to "Whine and ***" Perhaps someone else won't spend their money on the game then. ---------------------------------------------------------- If it weren't for Lawyers, we wouldn't need em. And, did you know that, in the United States, they're Un-Constitutional!. George, Adam, John and the rest of the gang saw something comming! RR #3 Box 96 Williamsport, Pa. 17701 (717) 745-7697

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:46:36 -0500, "Phil Bower" >"Want to test your system. Get GP2, if it runs AT ALL, you must have a real >nice system." OK, now your going overboard. Apart fromm the Monaco track GP2 runs very well on even a P200 classic with just a few options turned down. GP2 installs and runs very well in dos. It's never crashed on me once and I've had it since it first came out. You're being irrational. -- Nos http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

"Phil Bower" > >"Want to test your system. Get GP2, if it runs AT ALL, you must have a real

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> >nice system." > OK, now your going overboard. Apart fromm the Monaco track GP2 runs > very well on even a P200 classic with just a few options turned down. > GP2 installs and runs very well in dos. It's never crashed on me once > and I've had it since it first came out. You're being irrational. > -- > Nos

This is quite true Nos, It is kind of refreshing the way GP2 just runs and runs. It installed straight away and once I played with various settings all the tracks give me good frame rates with just the sky off and no textures in mirrors. Yes I do have a 233 but I have tried many sims that hang or have trouble getting installed. GP2 has never crashed 8-) Mike

> He was simply saying that at > Monaco it still runs poorly even on the latest hardware. I'd call th > at > constructive. Well, on my system , (and a lot of other peoples) it runs great at Monaco? NOTE: It does *not* run at 25fps, with *all* graphics on, at 100% po or less, but IMHO, it still runs great. 8?) * Peter * 8-) Please remove asterix from address to email.

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>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:46:36 -0500, "Phil Bower" >>"Want to test your system. Get GP2, if it runs AT ALL, you must have a real >>nice system." >OK, now your going overboard. Apart fromm the Monaco track GP2 runs >very well on even a P200 classic with just a few options turned down. >GP2 installs and runs very well in dos. It's never crashed on me once >and I've had it since it first came out. You're being irrational.

This is certainly true. I'd heard all these rumors of GP2 being wonderful if you can use it, and lamented that I only have a DX2/80 that's old enough to have no PCI slots (and thus no 3D card, though I didn't realize GP2 didn't support them at the time), thinking it'd be unusable. When I heard it was going off the market, I picked up a copy justr in case--and suddenly found that I had no problem using it here; the lack of graphics detail didn't disappoint me, as on THIS system, I don't expect to have much detail on... Of course, I have to use the keyboard here; oddly enough, when I went home for Xmas and tried it on Dad's DX/50 with my T2, I found that the problem wasn't framerate, but controlability... either slid or spun off every single corner, it was almost like ICR2 with the keyboard ;-) RM Vulpine Racing #65 ACME Industries Ford Taurus http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~rmanning/vulpineracing.html

It runs fine on my system, in svga with all the textures on, giving a frame rate of 18fps.(PII-266, 32mb, 8mb ATI graphics card etc.) Its not 25pfs but its hardly jerky. Until recently I was use to playing games at 15 at best, and TV is only 21fps. P Whitbread

GP2 Rocks! I just picked up two used copies this weekend and haven't stopped racin' since! It runs great on my 233 and milleniumII. I'm having so much fun I went out last night and bought a new TM GP1 to replace my old one.( $49.00 at electronics boutique! ) I almost wish I hadn't ordered that Pure 3D card now for F1RS... don

NTSC TV is 30 fps, PAL is 29.9 fps. Don't know where you came up with 21 fps??? > TV >is only 21fps. >P Whitbread

>NTSC TV is 30 fps, PAL is 29.9 fps. Don't know where you came up with 21 >fps??? Sorry, but PAL is 25 fps. 29.9(7) sounds more like a form of NTSC. -Teemu. --