N3 - Feasible Ideas

How about shaping the cars like the ACTAUL car...in other words a Taurus is shaped like a Taurus, a Monte like a Monte, etc. Instead of having one body style and just pasting different headlights on em. This goes alot towards realism for a simulation. Aaron

Hi, I think N3 should have possibility red flags (I know it doesn't happen all that often in NASCAR, probably on average 1-2 times a year, but it would add to the realism), I think it will happen with the new 3d engine being made for GPL, which will probably be used for N3 as well. (with the chance of flipping/rolling the car, and hopefully a more advanced damage model along with it). The list of new features could go on for miles however! John

>Damage >------ >Oil/Water/metal debris if a car blows and engine or wrecks* Possibly oil on the track... you can't always see it in real life, so it shouldn't be too hard to do. Maybe a spotter call every now and then... "hey, car 12 blew the motor at the end of the backstretch - look out, there may be oil on the track" All cars qualify, then take the top qualifiers and PROVISONALS for champsionship mode. Option for player to be excluded from race if no provisionals available. Cars trying to make the field would be set by the player somewhere. Such as 45 for 1 race, possibly 50 for a big event. This way you could race a BGN schedule and stuff Mark Martin in there, and some other WC guys, but only at certain events. Ability to go for a horsepower motor or something more fuel efficient. Maybe a lean or rich mixture for the motor - pistons can burn if too lean, but they don't suck up as much fuel... that kind of option would be nice.

Carset Management Go back to the ICR2 style of placing the carsets in individual sub directories so that they are easier to keep track of. So many nice carsets out there designed by talented people, but no clean way to keep them organized. (it is possible to get too many cars in that one subdirectory. :-) On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:04:13 -0500, Robert Knauber

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>I am starting a list of FEASABLE ideas. That means that we should >realisticly be expecting for N3. This includes things that were >promised for N2 and never came, plus things that would have a minor to >medium difficutly putting into the game. >Here's what I have so far. Items with a * may be a bit difficult to put >into the game. >Damage >------ > <snip> >Actual Driving & Simulation >--------------------------- > <snip> >Setup >----- > <snip>

So far I like most of the ideas mentioned. Double file restarts would be great! One thing I would really love to see --even since the first day N1 came out-- Chamionship mode for multiplayer mode. I know most of you run on TEN and the like. A friend and I have been racing local via modem since the early days keeping track manually is a real pain in the pan. To be able to dial him up and then choose chamionship mode for our race series would be awesome! Just my 2 cents worth... R. Faust aka Xducer

Let me second that! An animated wheel and arms that move when you steer will KILL the realism. If I wanted a Nintendo game, I'd buy a Nintendo. (same applies for a moving shifter) >... if there is to be a genuine 3D***pit... an OPTION TO TURN > OFF THE WHEEL AND ARMS. Thank you ;)

Let's hope we see some things fixed with the AI that seem to be carrying over from one Papyrus sim to the other. 1) Figure out a way to select the correct car that passes the start/finish line first. This should also help fix the problems we are seeing with the AI acting confused and dazed after crossing the S/F under yellow or coming out of the pits under a yellow conditions. 2) Make the AI more competitive when they are behind the human driver. For some reason it seems that once an AI car is passed (no matter how hard it was to catch and pass), it says to itself, "Gosh-golly-gee, that human guy sure is good, I think I'll just keep dropping back and not race him anymore". 3) Give the AI some smarts so they don't get bogged down by slower cars. They should be driving "ahead" and know to get out of that groove if the car they are approaching is too slow. Also along this thought, don't let the AI slow down for cars down on the apron as they enter or exit the pits. 4) Fix the problems with the AI and tracks that have front and rear pits. 5) Devise another approach to the way the AI react to accidents. It's so weird and unrealistic to see them slow at impossible rates and then just sit there and flop around like a poor fish out of water. 6) Let the AI get closer to each other and the human driver before they "freak out" and let off the gas or change grooves. Maybe this could be a player option. This way those who need to have more room to run can set the "clearance distance" higher, while those that want good fender rubbing racing can set it real tight. Possibly tie this to the agression number for driver skills. 7) Make the AI change more during the race. Maybe a car will start out with a bad setup and the driver and crew can get it sorted out and will actually be very competitive towards the end of the race (and visa versa). 8) Changing track conditions during the race. Let's have a reason for having the crew change the wedge or tire pressure (or insert or remove the spring ***s you are going to introduce <G>) other than the fact that one messed up with their setup. [see I don't only think AI] <shameless plug> Now don't get me wrong there are some really great things Papyrus AI can do in their current incarnation. As a matter of fact there is alot in the "AI engine" that is not evident until they are given better instructions. So for those that haven't checked it out yet, head to the CCG N2 AI Project site and grab some of the enhanced AI available for NASCAR2. http://www.sae.org </shameless plug> -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The reason N1 or N2 did not have this was that the AI was just not smart enough to get lined back up. N3's AI is supposed to be a total rewrite so I would think this would be in the plans. Brian

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> Let me second that! An animated wheel and arms that move when you steer > will KILL the realism. If I wanted a Nintendo game, I'd buy a Nintendo. > (same applies for a moving shifter) > >... if there is to be a genuine 3D***pit... an OPTION TO TURN > > OFF THE WHEEL AND ARMS. Thank you ;)

I think the option to turn it off would be the best but don't shoot this idea down before you see it. It really looks good in GPL and I feel adds to the experience of being in the car. The whole virtual***pit idea with the new engine should give you more realisim that you can stand. :> Of course, there will be those who just don't like the arms in there and feel sure it will be a option to have turned off. Brian

Ok, I'll wait until I see it, I haven't seen GPL yet... I just think that it would be really strange to look past my hands/wheel and see another set of hands/wheel on the screen. Chris >I think the option to turn it off would be the best but don't shoot this >idea down before you see it. It really looks good in GPL and I feel adds to >the experience of being in the car. The whole virtual***pit idea with the >new engine should give you more realisim that you can stand. :> >Of course, there will be those who just don't like the arms in there and >feel sure it will be a option to have turned off. >Brian

I must admit, even though N2 is the best game around, there a few things I'd like to see on N3. For example: -Have your set up "go away" as the race goes along like the real deal. -When you blow a tire, the fender gets torn off by the loose ***. -Pit stalls chosen according to points, qualifying, etc. -Be able to change the rear end gear to save fuel. -Have the AI car's setups "go away" as the race goes on. -Watch your crew work on the car while in the pits instead of the tires mysteriously being changed by your invisible crew members :) -Have to pull behind the wall to alter setup, etc during practice, and to fix damage during races. -Have the cars flip if the wreck is bad enough. -Damage to the sides of the cars. All of these are in addition to what everyone else has said. There are some really good ideas out there, and I hope Papyrus sees them, and uses them.

How about roof flaps popping up on a spin (sound also). And a serious change in handling when you loose a tire.

How about? A pit crew member cleaning the windshield? 2 day qualifying? Rain outs for qualifying and/or practice? Provisionals? Flashbulbs clicking in the stands during night races, especially during the start? Tony Felice Remove "spam" from my E-mail address to reply

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:34:12 -0500, "Chris Squier" >Let me second that! An animated wheel and arms that move when you steer >will KILL the realism. If I wanted a Nintendo game, I'd buy a Nintendo. >(same applies for a moving shifter) As I've said before, all the people who have seen the arms and the wheel have liked them, even if they were sceptical beforehand. Remember when you were a kid and thought beer tasted terrible? At least give something a chance before you decide :-) Cheers! John

LOL John. Good analogy. I think people will actually like it once they see it and give it chance. Brian

It has never been really done good before as far as I know. I think that would be a good idea because GPL will give you an idea of what it will be like. I think they have already heard enough complaints against it to have as an option to toggle off. I would thought they of done this anyway to free up the processor for lesser systems. Brian

> As I've said before, all the people who have seen the arms and the > wheel have liked them, even if they were sceptical beforehand. > Remember when you were a kid and thought beer tasted terrible? At > least give something a chance before you decide :-) I've seen it in Network Q, Virtua Racing and F1 97, and don't like it. I've seen the GPL video and don't think it looks ground breakingly different - if anything, it's more out of place in a 'proper' sim. As long as there's a toggle I'll be happy. Mark Reading, UK

Actually the moving shifter can be very handy. In Grand Prix Legends (at least in the build that I got the chance to play) it is the only way to determine what gear you are in. As many others have said, wait till you see it in action before you make up your mind. I wasn't crazy about the idea either, but without them GPL just wouldn't be the same. Believe it or not, it really does help add to the realism. BTW, the quality of the arms in the AVI or screenshots you may have seen isn't very indicative of their final state. Even Matt Sentell (the producer of GPL) feels those are pretty bad... =) -- Eric T. Busch http://ebusch.akorn.net >Let me second that! An animated wheel and arms that move when you steer >will KILL the realism. If I wanted a Nintendo game, I'd buy a Nintendo. >(same applies for a moving shifter)

I'd like to see: oil and debris when applicable a winshield that gets dirty changing track grooves engine options that have performance/reliability consequences more car setup options weather that changes during a race and affects handling :) > How about roof flaps popping up on a spin (sound also). > And a serious change in handling when you loose a tire.

>a winshield that gets dirty Sun glare too good idea... agreed! good points, all of them

You may very well decide you don't like the arms, but at least wait and try GPL with the 3D***pit instead of being so quick to judge things you have no first hand experience with. I've seen it. I've played it. The arms work. -- Eric T. Busch [link lost in import] >I gave beer several chances - still tastes lousy.

Hmm... last time I was in a car I had hands and a wheel in front of me that displayed both my input as well as the car's reaction to that input. Until force-feedback wheels are advanced enough to replace this, anything that can be done to better convey how the simulated car is handling is IMHO a GoodThing?. Not that it will do much to change you mind, but you'll have to take my word for it that it's not just eye-candy, and that it really does add to the sim. -- Eric T. Busch http://ebusch.akorn.net >I'm not sure that there is an argument about whether they work, just >that some don't want something distracting like that. Maybe if they >put such a system in a real car, then it might be more acceptable in a >simulated car. No toggle, no sale.

I'm not sure that there is an argument about whether they work, just that some don't want something distracting like that. Maybe if they put such a system in a real car, then it might be more acceptable in a simulated car. No toggle, no sale. Clark (ace29)