Why no #28,88 Fords in N2?

Why are their not any #28-88 Fords as driven by Ernie Irvan and Dale Jarrett in N2....just wondering??

Contracts and Rights. However, there are a ton of places on the net to get both cars... I could email you them both if you would like. Im a huge DJ fan. I was a Davey Allison fan prior to that.. you can also find the white, black, red, and gold colors as well. Scott B. Husted http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted > Why are their not any #28-88 Fords as driven by Ernie Irvan and Dale > Jarrett in N2....just wondering??

Path: lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!news-out.i nternetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!199.60.229.5!newsfeed.direct.ca!Su pernews60!supernews.com!uunet!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Date: 15 Dec 1997 23:46:19 GMT Organization: HOME SYSTEM Lines: 3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp11pal.cleaf.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1157 Why are their not any #28-88 Fords as driven by Ernie Irvan and Dale Jarrett in N2....just wondering?? < Just go some place on the Net and d/l a whole new 97 or 98 carset. Steve Steve

It was liecencing issues. If you have seen, EA sports Andretti racing had Texaco/Havaline all over it and thus Papyrus could not get the rights to put those sponserships or RYR in there. Sorta the same thing as Sega and Daytona/Indy. If Sega and EA are not going to do these aspects of simulations right, I wish they would get the hell out of the way and let someone who does. Don't get me started....... :> Brian

FYI Ernie Irvan no longer drives the #28 RYR Ford. He is in the Skittles #36. What a shame on Robert Yates, the guy just about gave his life for RYR and this is how he's treated. Another factor on why Ernie had a poor year was due to Larry McReynolds leaving for RCR. It takes at least a full year for crew chief and driver to get on the same page and RYR did not give Ernie and Reno a fair chance to work together before the termination. I hope Ernie "Punts" RYR drivers at all opportunities. Naman I know this is the wrong NG to post this but.....

You can get self-extracting files for those two at Nascarnet.com george : > Why are their not any #28-88 Fords as driven by Ernie Irvan and Dale : > Jarrett in N2....just wondering?? : : : It was liecencing issues. If you have seen, EA sports Andretti racing : had Texaco/Havaline all over it and thus Papyrus could not get the : rights to put those sponserships or RYR in there. Sorta the same thing : as Sega and Daytona/Indy. : : If Sega and EA are not going to do these aspects of simulations right, I : wish they would get the hell out of the way and let someone who does. : Don't get me started....... :> : : Brian : : : This article was posted from <A HREF="http://www.slurp.net/">Slurp Net</A>.

Im sure Ernie will "punt" his share of drivers this year... he ALWAYS does. AND I doubt it will matter which team they drive for. FYI.. DJ was a success his first season with their team for RYR. New crew, new chief, new driver.... success. Yates wants results. Ernie didnt provide. He wrecked way too much sheetmetal. Scott B. Husted http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted

Quoted text (12 lines)

> FYI > Ernie Irvan no longer drives the #28 RYR Ford. He is in the Skittles #36. > What a shame on Robert Yates, the guy just about gave his life for RYR and > this is how he's treated. Another factor on why Ernie had a poor year was > due to Larry McReynolds leaving for RCR. It takes at least a full year for > crew chief and driver to get on the same page and RYR did not give Ernie and > Reno a fair chance to work together before the termination. I hope Ernie > "Punts" RYR drivers at all opportunities. > Naman > I know this is the wrong NG to post this but.....

Quoted text (7 lines)

> FYI > Ernie Irvan no longer drives the #28 RYR Ford. He is in the Skittles #36. > What a shame on Robert Yates, the guy just about gave his life for RYR and > this is how he's treated. > Naman > I know this is the wrong NG to post this but.....

-- Ernie Irvan was injured in an accident he was not "giving his life for RYR". RYR owes him nothing, in fact had every right to never bring him back. You may not like it but that's reality. Ernie is a "car-wrecker" almost without par, a loner, and not very friendly to sponsors and fans. He got what he deserved. True he manages to win a race now and then but I'd be surprised if he ever won more money then the repairs for his wrecks cost. **************************************** * Rich Koehler * * Anti-Spam: Change the "3's" to "e's" * * (i.e. rgko3hl3r to rgkoehler) * ****************************************

Harsh Richard!!! But pretty close to the truth =) Scott B. Husted http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted

Quoted text (26 lines)

> > FYI > > Ernie Irvan no longer drives the #28 RYR Ford. He is in the Skittles #36. > > What a shame on Robert Yates, the guy just about gave his life for RYR and > > this is how he's treated. > > Naman > > I know this is the wrong NG to post this but..... > -- > Ernie Irvan was injured in an accident he was not > "giving his life for RYR". RYR owes him nothing, > in fact had every right to never bring him back. > You may not like it but that's reality. Ernie > is a "car-wrecker" almost without par, a loner, > and not very friendly to sponsors and fans. He > got what he deserved. True he manages to win a > race now and then but I'd be surprised if he > ever won more money then the repairs for his > wrecks cost. > **************************************** > * Rich Koehler * > * Anti-Spam: Change the "3's" to "e's" * > * (i.e. rgko3hl3r to rgkoehler) * > ****************************************

> Harsh Richard!!! > But pretty close to the truth =) Yes it was, and I apologize to Ernie's fans but that guy has been crying in the Nascar group for 4 months saying the same thing over and over. Ernie almost died for Texaco, Ernie almost died for RYR. Ernie said when asked why he returned. "Before the accident I was well known, a somebody. I'd rather risk my life to be a somebody than live to 80 and be another nobody". Wonder what his wife thought about that quote after nursing him back to health for two years. That is when I lost all respect for him. **************************************** * Rich Koehler * * Anti-Spam: Change the "3's" to "e's" * * (i.e. rgko3hl3r to rgkoehler) * ****************************************

Rich, Im a huge Jarrett fan, and I support Yates in general. Ive been a Yates fan since Davey Allison entered as a rookie in NASCAR. I never thought Ernie fit in with Yates racing. I dont have a specific reason, I just never felt like he fit there sponsorship or personality image. I think DJ does VERY well. I think his character and class are evident in his True Value Man of the Year award. I think Ervin is too much a "Me First" man and is just too damn unpredictable on the track. At least you KNEW when Earnhardt was going to push you out of the way =) Ervin could take you out when hes 30 laps down running with no fenders and trying to take your line!! I respect Ernie for his comeback... but I just dont feel he is the right person for Yates racing. I think Irwin will be a nice fit in the above regards. Winning is another issue. I also found it ironic that the #28 car is the "flagship" and DJ has outperformed that car since day 1 with Todd Parrett. Scott B. Husted http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > Harsh Richard!!! > > But pretty close to the truth =) > Yes it was, and I apologize to Ernie's fans but that > guy has been crying in the Nascar group for 4 months > saying the same thing over and over. Ernie almost died > for Texaco, Ernie almost died for RYR. > Ernie said when asked why he returned. "Before the > accident I was well known, a somebody. I'd rather risk > my life to be a somebody than live to 80 and be another > nobody". Wonder what his wife thought about that quote > after nursing him back to health for two years. > That is when I lost all respect for him. > **************************************** > * Rich Koehler * > * Anti-Spam: Change the "3's" to "e's" * > * (i.e. rgko3hl3r to rgkoehler) * > ****************************************

All you have to do is look back to 1994, Ernie was in 2nd place in point standings 26 points back with 3 wins and 14 top 5's in 20 races and was a favorite along with Earnhardt for the championship. Also Ernie won at Richmond in his 4th race driving the 28, there was no 88 car then DOH! BTW Scott DJ did not do very well his replacement year in the 28! I will not bash DJ/Parrett because I do respect them, my problem with Jarrett is he is more than happy with a 2nd place finish (1st LOSER, like you) Ernie always wants to lead laps and WIN RACES at the expense of sheetmetal, which is what makes Nascar so great :-). I also agree that Ernie is not a Nascar "New Era" poster boy aka (Jeff Gordon K.Irwin). Ernie's off track personality is not why I am a fan of his, it's his DRIVING ability (also why I was a Tim Richmond fan) that attracted me since his early years in Nascar (when he broke K.Petty leg hehehehahaha). You boys sound like typical "NEW ERA" wet behind the ears NASCAR fans that care more about how a driver looks and talks than how he drives! I like winners NOT a second place finishers! Scott you and Richard must be Gordon fans DOH!!!!!! WRONG!!!! Not a new crew chief, Mcreynolds was already there Also Jarrrett took 12 races to win for Butthead Yates and had only 1 win for Gibbs! Also WRONG! just look at J.Andretti or D.Cope or G.Bodine. Again nothing to do with driving Duh! Almost Death???? you moron! >>Rich Koehler * >>* Anti-Spam: Change the "3's" to "e's" * U both LOSE! Naman

> All you have to do is look back to 1994, Ernie was in 2nd place in point > standings 26 points back with 3 wins and 14 top 5's in 20 races and was a > favorite along with Earnhardt for the championship. Also Ernie won at > Richmond in his 4th race driving the 28, there was no 88 car then DOH! What does that have to do with anything ??? he didnt win the championship did he ?? DOH !!!!! BTW You are calling me a loser when you are the one who was crying and whining.. they fired Ernie *sniff sniff* He almost died for RYR *sniff sniff* Get real. Consistency wins championships. Ask Labonte. Not win 1, wreck 15. Ernie always And thats a good thing ?!?!?!?!?! which is what No.. its what makes your local demolition derby at your fairgrounds great. I also agree that Ernie is not a Nascar "New Agreed. Ernie's off track personality is Which is upredictable, damaging, and disliked by MANY NASCAR drivers. AND.. doesnt win a whole hell of alot of races does it ?? (also why I was a Tim I also liked Tim Richmond. His death was a loss for NASCAR. Although I hardly find injuring others humerous. Says something about you I think. You boys sound like typical "NEW ERA" wet Yup.. that would be me. FYI.. I was*** out with my uncle at then Shangri La raceway (now Tioga County) in upstate NY when I was 3 and grew up watching The Bodines and Jimmy Spencer in Nascar Modifieds when they dominated the North East Tour. Watch Richie Evans, Geoff Bodine, and George Kent race the hell out eachother on the tour. I went to Pocono since the early 80's and I worked at Watkins Glen International when it reopened for 2 years during the Glen Nascar Weekend. Get your facts before you make stereotypical remarks about someone. I was around NASCAR when it was still JUST a Good 'Ol Boy sport being dominated by the KING, DW, Allison, Yarborough, Parsons, and Baker. I like winners NOT a second place finishers! Then why do you like Ervin again??????? I respect Gordon for what he accomplishes. Im NOT a fan of his. Same with Earnhardt. I cheer against them, but respect the hell out of them for what they have accomplished. If you want to respect someone who isnt afraid of rubbing fenders... you should look to Earnhardt before Ervin!! At least Earnhardt has control of his actions! If im a HUGE DJ fan why would you relate me to being a Gordon fan ????? DOH !!! Besides... like he said to Earnhardt at the Awards Banquette... hes a cry baby ;) Thats classic. I think DJ winning Man of the Year Award says a hell of alot about him as a person, not just a Driver. DJ did finish 2nd.. where did Ervin finish ???? The reason he isnt satisfied with 2nd is because he didnt even get close to it!! Not even a top 10 driver. Where did he finish ???? Was it even top 20 ????? Gibbs. Maybe... but it was the Daytona 500 !!!! hell of a 1 win!!! BTW.. who has more career wins ?? Ervin or Jarrett... id like to see that stat =) McReynolds was not crew chief for the #88 car. My response was in regards to his accomplishments in the 88 car... not the #28 car. Hence the words.. NEW TEAM. It shows on the track and it sure the hell has alot to do with what NASCAR is. I think he meant that he deserved to get fired MORON !!!!! U LOSE !!!!!!! Scott B. Husted [link lost in import: /~sbhusted]

Quoted text (15 lines)

> All you have to do is look back to 1994, Ernie was in 2nd place in point > standings 26 points back with 3 wins and 14 top 5's in 20 races and was a > favorite along with Earnhardt for the championship. Also Ernie won at > Richmond in his 4th race driving the 28, there was no 88 car then DOH! BTW > Scott DJ did not do very well his replacement year in the 28! I will not > bash DJ/Parrett because I do respect them, my problem with Jarrett is he is > more than happy with a 2nd place finish (1st LOSER, like you) Ernie always > wants to lead laps and WIN RACES at the expense of sheetmetal, which is what > makes Nascar so great :-). I also agree that Ernie is not a Nascar "New > Era" poster boy aka (Jeff Gordon K.Irwin). Ernie's off track personality is > not why I am a fan of his, it's his DRIVING ability (also why I was a Tim > Richmond fan) that attracted me since his early years in Nascar (when he > broke K.Petty leg hehehehahaha). You boys sound like typical "NEW ERA" wet > behind the ears NASCAR fans that care more about how a driver looks and > talks than how he drives! I like winners NOT a second place finishers!

I'll address some of this. As a personal friend of Dale Jarrett and his family, I follow him pretty darn close. It is true that DJ did not have a great year the time he was in the #28 car but there were alot of reasons behind that. One, being luck. Two, new team/driver combo did not work. Three, DJ and Ernie have totally differant driving styles. A car that Ernie likes to drive does not mean that it will fit well for DJ. One situation that season had DJ in practice after Ernie had started spending time in the pits. DJ came in and said we need to change this and that....then the crew looks to Ernie and of course, Ernie dis-agrees. I'm do not want to go as far and say that Ernie was pretty jealous and was backstabbing but that was kinda what was going on. It is true, Ernie was having a great year up to the time of the accident. I would of like to see how that championship run would of come out if Ernie would of not gotten hurt. DJ's presance had no bad implications on Ernie's season IMO. They finished 1-2 in several races and both had capable cars. DJ's track record in the #88 car shows what someone can do when you get the right people togeather working for a common goal. The first year of the 28/88 combo, Ernie's crew all hated each other in general, where the DJ's crew were going out for dinner after work....etc. When you have those internal conflicts, it is going to be hard to win on the track. I am not bashing Ernie and have always admired him in a way but feel strongly that his un-doing had anything to do with Dale Jarret coming on board with Yates Racing. If it had not of been DJ, it would of been someone else because the multi car trend was well on it's way by this time. As you were quoated above about being so concerned about winning races but did not hesitate to mention Ernie's 14 top 5 finishes. Don't think Gibbs has anything to do with this since drivers in his cars have been pretty sparatic at best. Like all those guys too but like I said earlier, just because a driver is not winning does not mean it is all his fault. Correct here Namen. I would rather have Ernie in my car than any of the above. Ernie just wrecks better cars than those guys do. :> Brian Tate

Brian, As I stated in a post earlier.. Im a HUGE DJ fan and although I do not know him personally.. I have met his father at a couple of races. The family is nothing but class acts!!! Not only does DJ deserve great respect for his on track performance.. but his personal life as well. The Man of the Year award is a strong indication of this. Scott B. Husted http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted

Quoted text (64 lines)

> > All you have to do is look back to 1994, Ernie was in 2nd place in point > > standings 26 points back with 3 wins and 14 top 5's in 20 races and was a > > favorite along with Earnhardt for the championship. Also Ernie won at > > Richmond in his 4th race driving the 28, there was no 88 car then DOH! BTW > > Scott DJ did not do very well his replacement year in the 28! I will not > > bash DJ/Parrett because I do respect them, my problem with Jarrett is he is > > more than happy with a 2nd place finish (1st LOSER, like you) Ernie always > > wants to lead laps and WIN RACES at the expense of sheetmetal, which is what > > makes Nascar so great :-). I also agree that Ernie is not a Nascar "New > > Era" poster boy aka (Jeff Gordon K.Irwin). Ernie's off track personality is > > not why I am a fan of his, it's his DRIVING ability (also why I was a Tim > > Richmond fan) that attracted me since his early years in Nascar (when he > > broke K.Petty leg hehehehahaha). You boys sound like typical "NEW ERA" wet > > behind the ears NASCAR fans that care more about how a driver looks and > > talks than how he drives! I like winners NOT a second place finishers! > I'll address some of this. As a personal friend of Dale Jarrett and his family, > I follow him pretty darn close. It is true that DJ did not have a great year > the time he was in the #28 car but there were alot of reasons behind that. One, > being luck. Two, new team/driver combo did not work. Three, DJ and Ernie have > totally differant driving styles. A car that Ernie likes to drive does not mean > that it will fit well for DJ. One situation that season had DJ in practice > after Ernie had started spending time in the pits. DJ came in and said we need > to change this and that....then the crew looks to Ernie and of course, Ernie > dis-agrees. I'm do not want to go as far and say that Ernie was pretty jealous > and was backstabbing but that was kinda what was going on. > It is true, Ernie was having a great year up to the time of the accident. I > would of like to see how that championship run would of come out if Ernie would > of not gotten hurt. > DJ's presance had no bad implications on Ernie's season IMO. They finished 1-2 > in several races and both had capable cars. DJ's track record in the #88 car > shows what someone can do when you get the right people togeather working for a > common goal. The first year of the 28/88 combo, Ernie's crew all hated each > other in general, where the DJ's crew were going out for dinner after > work....etc. When you have those internal conflicts, it is going to be hard to > win on the track. > I am not bashing Ernie and have always admired him in a way but feel strongly > that his un-doing had anything to do with Dale Jarret coming on board with Yates > Racing. If it had not of been DJ, it would of been someone else because the > multi car trend was well on it's way by this time. > As you were quoated above about being so concerned about winning races but did > not hesitate to mention Ernie's 14 top 5 finishes. > > WRONG!!!! Not a new crew chief, Mcreynolds was already there Also > > Jarrrett took 12 races to win for Butthead Yates and had only 1 win for > > Gibbs! > Don't think Gibbs has anything to do with this since drivers in his cars have > been pretty sparatic at best. Like all those guys too but like I said earlier, > just because a driver is not winning does not mean it is all his fault. > > >>Ernie > > >>is a "car-wrecker" almost without par > > Also WRONG! just look at J.Andretti or D.Cope or G.Bodine. > Correct here Namen. I would rather have Ernie in my car than any of the above. > Ernie just wrecks better cars than those guys do. :> > Brian Tate

hmmmm, guess you have not seen Glenn throw a temper tamtrum on the golf course. :> Glenn is a pretty good guy too but a little more excitable than his dad and brother. :> Yep, he is a truely great guy and his wife is one of the neatest people you would ever meet. Really full of life type gal. Alot of people like Namen might mistake DJ as a PR type guy but he was like that long before he ever started racing in Winston Cup. Remember back in his Hickory days and he was the same guy that you see today. Brian

"Almost without par doesn't exclude the aforementioned" Not in English anyway Naman. While you're at it add in Greg Sacks, Robert Pressley, and Robbie Gordon. No, then why'd he get fired, you have to treat your sponsors with respect. even A.J. and Cale were smart enough to know that. Fired, and I demand an apology or satisfaction. I live in central NJ, if you're close name a place and time or apologize as I never insulted you. Otherwise be known as a gutless coward, hiding behind a keyboard. Rich Koehler Email Address intentionally witheld to thwart spammers!

First off I would like to apologize to Rich for the misunderstanding of his post! Very sorry for the name calling! But I do have to laugh at being called out about something so very trivial :-) (A NG post) If you call someone out it should be for something meaningful not alot of hot air. A Neanderthal act in this forum is meaningless! Second I have much respect for DJ, he is a class act, but this has no reflection on how I feel regarding his driving style, I like aggressive drivers and as such DJ is not. I like to see fenders banging during a Race, (superspeedways not included) This is NASCAR racing at it's finest. If your like Husted F1 is your racing series not Nascar (except maybe the starts, wow). What gets me steamed is that I feel Ernie was never givin a realistic chance after his accident and think he deserved at least 1 more year of competition with the 28, this was the point of the original post. Yates wants poster boy, poster boy he now has! Most imortant though is this all is just "My Opinion". Everyone has a different viewpoint on this mattter and as such are entitled to it! Naman

>What does that have to do with anything ??? Irvan didnt win the >championship did he ?? >DOH !!!!! I wonder why? A life threatening injury maybe! I never stated he would win the championship, I said he was in contention for the championship. I am real....No virtual Naman here :-) If you like that type of racing fine, it's your opinion! IMHO the championship points awarding system needs updating placing more emphasis on winning, again IMHO. Do you understand what an opinion is? Also a great sport :-), but in Nascar it also has a place, 97' Bristol race 1, ask R.Wallace, or Darlington ask J.Burton and I can go on and on, R.Petty C.Yarborough Dega 73'. etc etc etc. WOW Scott! we agree on something. I almost want to change my post now :-) Most of the Drivers that complain about his style are the ones he has driven past so many times! You are very correct on this point! I let my anger get the best of me and I do retract this statement, my apologies for this moronic statement. The last thing I want is to see injuries on any Race Track! Because he is a hard nose take no shit driver! He will go for the WIN when the opportunity arises and wreck you if your'e slower and blocking him! I have great respect for all of the drivers in Winston Cup. Earnhardt goes w/o saying! He is perhaps the best during this era. He is given the benefit of the doubt in most cases though, Bristol 95' 10+ incidents and no said a thing, most drivers would have gotten a Black Flag. >The reason he isnt satisfied As a matter of fact he finished 14th in the standings which is very comendable due to the Yates team shifting focus to the 88 after the Irvan decision, (an observation as I was not in the offices of R.Yates) Do you forget Irvan also won the Daytona 500! Driving the #4 Kodak Chevy, and was in contention this year, till Gordon got into Earnhardt which took out many others including DJ with only a few laps to go. I believe Irvan has 14 career wins, and I think (don't quote me) DJ has 17, 7 this year though! Rather than a flame war Husted (I can go to Nascar NG for that) A constructive dialog is a better choice for this medium! Actually this will be my last post on this subject here in rec.autos.simulators. Maybe I will see you on TEN, spinning wildly after I get into you :-), just kidding! Naman

Gordon fan, hee, hee, hee, that's rich. I think A.J. Foyt was one of the greatest drivers ever. Have been a fan since 1968, remember real drivers like David Pearson, Cale Yarborough, Bobby Allison. No way could I be a Gordon fan. The boy is talented without doubt but I'd like to see him drive the older cars. 10 inch tires, full sized engines, two inch spoilers, manual steering, no cool suits, and side window glass (look at Mario's Daytona 500 winning car). Talk about your Talledega disaster, he'd make this year's wreck look like a fender bender. A Lot of todays drivers are too small to have driven back then, J. Andretti, Martin (one of my preferred drivers today) and Gordon. As for Ernie willing to trade sheet metal for a win, all I see him do is wreck car after car, sometimes the whole field. Guys who traded sheet metal, seldom took out the whole pack and had the guts to settle their disputes off track as well. Can't see Ernie, willing to stand up after the race and trade more than paint with A.J. or Cale. Wrecks, you can have them. I have seen enough men (and women) die driving race cars to fill a couple of Daytona or Indy fields. You like wrecks, more power to you, I'd rather see them alive and able to spend time reminiscing with their grandchildren. Rich Koehler Email Address intentionally witheld to thwart spammers!

one-eye sux

Your last post was much more constructive... lets keep them that way on both parts!! =) I cant stand the NASCAR newsgroup... I spent one day reading the posts and unsubscribed... what a bunch of cry babies.

Quoted text (16 lines)

> >What does that have to do with anything ??? Irvan didnt win the > >championship did he ?? > >DOH !!!!! > I wonder why? A life threatening injury maybe! I never stated he would win > the championship, I said he was in contention for the championship. > >* Get real. > I am real....No virtual Naman here :-) > >Consistency wins championships. Ask Labonte. Not win 1, wreck 15. > If you like that type of racing fine, it's your opinion! IMHO the > championship points awarding system needs updating placing more emphasis on > winning, again IMHO. Do you understand what an opinion is?

I do understand what an opinion is. Whether or not the point structure needs to be changed is another issue (im split on it). However.. under the current point structure... it pays to be consistent. Which I believe is NASCARs intent. I think there should be a wider gap from 1st to 2nd place in points.. However, I dont think we can get to the point where we have a guy win a couple of races and 20 DNF win the championship. Maybe theres a balance... I really dont have an answer for that issue. Good retraction =) I have to totally disagree with you still here. There is too much money involved with these teams to just destroy sheetmetal. Rubbin is racin but wrecking people is another. Yes.. before Gordon, Earnhardt did get all the breaks. I knew it wasnt the top 10, did not know exactly where. That ticked me off but I love how Earnhardt just rolled his car over and got back in and drove it to the finish!! I agree... lets not. Maybe I will I truly hope to be on TEN by February... if so, I will look you up and we will have that race!!! ;) Notice I didnt bring up the NASCAR ruling at Watkins Glen that took the Championship from DJ and gave it to Gordon. Burton told NASCAR DJ was not spilling any fluid, but they black flagged him anyway. If it were Jeff Gordon... he would have NEVER been black flagged!! Those points (DJ was 3rd at the time) is greater thant he difference in the points race. Scott B. Husted http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted

>the current point structure... it pays to be consistent. >Which I >believe is NASCARs intent. I think there should be a wider >gap from 1st >to 2nd place in points.. However, I dont think we can get to the point >where we have a guy win a couple of races and 20 DNF >win the >championship. Maybe theres a balance... I really dont >have an answer >for that issue. I agree, the only changes I would like to see would be between 1st and 2nd place, I would be happy with a minor change, perhaps 190 points for 1st and 180 for 2nd (not including any bonus points of course) I just feel strongly that that you deserve a little extra incentive to get to the front. But most Teams have the Dough! Also the teams replace most shetmetal after each race anyhow, this is a very minor expense when you look at the big picture. Now a totaled car is another story, a low budget team like Dave Marcus it can have a major impact. >Rubbin is racin I really don't believe that drivers intentionally wreck other drivers (few occasions they do, 95' Brickyard Bodine brothers) but in most cases its due to patience or lack thereof that is the culprit. If you are being blocked by an obviously slower car lap after lap anyones patience will wear thin, even Bill Elliott :-) Actually DJ has 15 career wins not 17 as previously stated by me! That infuriated me also, with so few laps remaining that call should have been held off by officials, there was no evidence to cooberate Burton's accusation, Nascar should have kept a close eye on DJ with TNN's or ESPN's (cannot remember which was broadcasting) help of course. Naman

>As for Ernie willing to trade sheet metal for a win, >all I see him do is wreck car after car, sometimes >the whole field. Although I do agree Ernie has caused wrecks, Dega last year comes to mind which Ernie did cause and did not take responsibility for (I was not happy with Ernie on that one). You make it sound as if all wrecks on all tracks at all times are directly related to E.Irvan! I say bullshit!! If you closely watch what is happening you would realise this. Most of the time you are probably keeping a closer eye on your favorite driver than you are on Irvan, I know I watch Irvan as close as possible during all races, at the expense of other non-favorite drivers...aka Gordon (which ESPN and TNN shows no matter where he is in the field most of the time) (I did apologize for the K.Petty remark). I like to see paint being traded which is an integral part of Nascar racing from 1948' to the present! This is what I consider exiting aggressive driving, which I like to see. This is the category IMHO that Irvan falls into (as does many other drivers Gordon, Earnhardt included, Darlington was awesome). I do not enjoy wrecks in general, which is what happened to Irvan and why I originally posted. Again, this is just my opinion which I am entitled to, as are you your opinion. It just bugs me to hear anyone state that most wrecks are caused by Irvan, I wholeheartedly disagree! Naman

Naman, This should go to rasn. But I never said most wrecks are Irvan's fault. I just feel that he lets his "competitive spirit" overrule common sense way too often. Lord knows how tough it is to be competitive in Nascar (try Sierra's N2 sometime) but you cannot seemingly (note: seemingly, not definitely) cause wrecks to that extent and keep the respect of fans, owners and other drivers. This has hurt Ernie, and I do feel that he has a great depth of talent. He needs to start harvesting it. Perhaps with his new team we'll see a more focused Ernie! Rich Koehler Email Address intentionally witheld to thwart spammers!

Actually most accidents are caused by Jimmy Spencer!!

Quoted text (20 lines)

> Naman, > This should go to rasn. But I never said most wrecks are > Irvan's fault. I just feel that he lets his "competitive spirit" > overrule common sense way too often. Lord knows how tough it is > to be competitive in Nascar (try Sierra's N2 sometime) but you > cannot seemingly (note: seemingly, not definitely) cause wrecks > to that extent and keep the respect of fans, owners and other > drivers. This has hurt Ernie, and I do feel that he has a great > depth of talent. He needs to start harvesting it. Perhaps with > his new team we'll see a more focused Ernie! > >Again, this is just my opinion which I am entitled to, as are you your > >opinion. It just bugs me to hear anyone state that most wrecks are caused > >by Irvan, I wholeheartedly disagree! > >Naman > Rich Koehler > Email Address intentionally witheld to thwart spammers!

-- Dave Molloy Southern Illinois University Plant and Soil Science Student PENSKE Racing...Go Rusty, Go Little Al, Go Andre!!!

Yes a to realize this should be taken to rasn but to many times you get the "You Suck" message without any meaningful dialog to support the statements. I now avoid rasn like the black plague. >(try Sierra's N2 sometime) I have been using Papyrus products since the Original Indy 500. Used N1 standalone since it's release, spent over $5000.00 on long distance (talk about moron, wife still pissed off) to Hawaii, used N2 standalone since it's release and will soon be joining TEN. My driving style also (in some people's opinion) is to aggressive for my own good, but it really depends on how well my car is setup and how competitive I am in the field that determines my style :-) I do hope Ernie will be competitive this upcoming year but I do have serious reservations, he is now in a Pontiac, which although has become more competitive in recent years (B.Labonte) is still not up to par w/Ford's 'n' Chevy's IMHO. And he no longer has the Yates powerplant which is awesome to say the least. This is why I originally posted, I really wanted to see Ernie remain w/RYR so he would have the best opportunity to win it all! Oh well such is life! good day to ya Naman

Naman, Actually.. Burton said DJ was NOT spilling any fluid which is what made the case worse because Burton was right behind DJ. DJ's cres told NASCAR to confirm it with Burton that their was NO fluid coming out and Burton confirmed it... but they black flagged him anyway. Totally bum call. Scott

Not sure exactly when Indy 500 came out, I really gave up on games from 86'-91' since I only had and 8088 w/RGB Hercules and a whopping 10MB hard drive :-) I purchased a 386/20 2MB ram vga in 91' and Indy 500 was already available in our local egghead s/w store, so it could have been out for awhile w/o my knowledge. For the life of me I cannot remember GP Unlimited, but Microprose came out with World Circuit GP sometime around 92', I remember cause thats when I built my first (of many) 486's. I was chosen to beta Papyrus's Indycar Racing 1 in early 93', could this be the title you are referring to? Or was this a MAC title possibly? Speaking of History, I just d/l'd Falcon4, not at all impressed with this early Alpha release. Falson3 was king for a long time but I think Spectrum Holobyte has been away to long! Naman How old is the Origanol Indy 500. Because I have a game from Papyrus/Accolade Called Grand Prix Unlimited from 92 I believe. -- Sincerely, Mark F.

>> All you have to do is look back to 1994, Ernie was in 2nd place in point >> standings 26 points back with 3 wins and 14 top 5's in 20 races and was a >> favorite along with Earnhardt for the championship. Also Ernie won at >> Richmond in his 4th race driving the 28, there was no 88 car then DOH! >What does that have to do with anything ??? he didnt win the >championship did he ?? Besides that, it was Martinsville, not Richmond.