Papyrus have shut up shop :(

end of an era :( http://community.vugames.com/WebX?14@@.f020dd5 pez

>end of an era :( http://community.vugames.com/WebX?14@@.f020dd5 > >pez > I'm sure the talented people will surface somewhere else. At least they still have the knowledge they gained at Papy... Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >end of an era :( http://community.vugames.com/WebX?14@@.f020dd5 > > > >pez > > > > I'm sure the talented people will surface somewhere else. At least theystill > have the knowledge they gained at Papy... > > Eldred True. To not continue on with the world's best physics engine for the PC would be waste of knowledge and talent. Does anyone really know why Papy closed the doors? Usually its because of money, but I thought their products sold well. Or did someone just get plain tired?

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2%Vmc.29624$U75.7670@edtnps89...

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> > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > >end of an era :( http://community.vugames.com/WebX?14@@.f020dd5 > > > > > >pez > > > > > > > I'm sure the talented people will surface somewhere else. At least they > still > > have the knowledge they gained at Papy... > > > > Eldred > > True. > To not continue on with the world's best physics engine for the PC would

be > waste of knowledge and talent. > Does anyone really know why Papy closed the doors? > Usually its because of money, but I thought their products sold well. > Or did someone just get plain tired? > > I'm guessing it is because Sierra didn't want them to make a non-NASCAR racing game. With EA having the NASCAR series locked up, and Sony having F1...there really isn't much else out there. It makes sense for them to shut down and allow the employees to go to other places. Hopefully they'll manage to go other places and improve games.

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:2%Vmc.29624$U75.7670@edtnps89: > True. > To not continue on with the world's best physics engine for the PC > would be waste of knowledge and talent. > Does anyone really know why Papy closed the doors? > Usually its because of money, but I thought their products sold well. > Or did someone just get plain tired? Most likely Sierra/Vivendi owns the software. I would be really really suprised if Former Papyrus employees would be allowed to take the code and use it for some other product. Just like the West brothers had to abandon WSC when their puplisher pulled the plug...Papy will have to say goodbye to the code developed while under the employ of Sierra. dave henrie

They may show up EA's doorstep. EA sure could use the help..lol Man, papy could of made a motocross game. Look at microsofts MCM2. It's so freaking old and there are still tons of people playing that game. If memory serves it's at lest 6 years old. There are a number of new MX games for the consoles but none for the PC! WTH!

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > I'm sure the talented people will surface somewhere else Well, that hasn't really been true of talent in the flight sim business... the vast majority certainly aren't working on flight sims since all those old publishers were swallowed up and digested :-( I guess we can finally kiss goodbye even the faintest glimmering of a tiny, weeny, nano-hope-ette for GPL2 at some point in the faaaar distant future then? :-) <ponders> It was a magazine (PCZone in the UK) that had a review of the flight sim Tornado by D.I. and a driving sim called Indy Car Racing by some bunch called Papyrus (who I'd also never heard of) that persuaded me to buy a PC. Those screen shots were amazing for the time. Well, 18,000ukp of hardware, software & magazines later (thanks a bunch Quicken ;-), I'm not sure whether to thank them or not. But on a purely emotional level I think it's been worth all that and more just for the pleasure GPL alone brought me... and continues to bring! In the unlikely even any ex-Papy people ever stumble across this while Googling away their final years in the Twilight Rest Home for Terminally Bewildered Programmers, thanks for everything. Andrew McP Who'll be my role-model? Now that my role-model is... Gone. Oh, hang on... the West brothers! Maybe :-)

from eroc busch: VUG decided to close both of it's remaining eastcoast studios (Papyrus and Impressions). I had thought they were to have issued some type of press release regarding the closings, but until that time you'll have to ask them for their "offical" reason(s). pez "Pez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VrVmc.1413$[email hidden]... > end of an era :( http://community.vugames.com/WebX?14@@.f020dd5 > > pez > >

>Andrew McP > >Who'll be my role-model? >Now that my role-model is... >Gone. So...can we call you Al? :-) Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

On Sat, 8 May 2004 01:01:57 +0100, "Pez" <[email hidden]> wrote: >end of an era :( http://community.vugames.com/WebX?14@@.f020dd5 Argh. In the last 5 years 3 of my favorite developers (Papyrus, Dynamix, and Looking Glass) have all gone under. I hope to hell GTR has good multi. Jason

On 08 May 2004 00:16:26 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >I'm sure the talented people will surface somewhere else. At least they still >have the knowledge they gained at Papy... > >Eldred Well I heard that Dave Kaemmer hasn't retired yet and had left Papy a while ago but was still consulting. I think that he had some sort of non compete clause but now with Papy gone what would he compete against? Maybe GPL2 will come back.

I don't think I'll be rushing out to buy anything from Vivendi anytime in the immediate future. Impressions was a good outfit and there will probably not be another Papyrus. Too bad the suits don't understand the market. Mike On Sat, 8 May 2004 11:34:38 +0100, "Pez" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>from eroc busch: > >VUG decided to close both of it's remaining eastcoast studios (Papyrus and >Impressions). I had thought they were to have issued some type of press >release regarding the closings, but until that time you'll have to ask them >for their "offical" reason(s). > >pez > >"Pez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:VrVmc.1413$[email hidden]... >> end of an era :( http://community.vugames.com/WebX?14@@.f020dd5 >> >> pez >> >> >

Best nascar sim today and in the for seeable future. Lets hope the company that has the source code is able to bring it back and contiues to have the vision Papy had. Thanks papy and good luck to the employees.

Pez wrote: > end of an era :( http://community.vugames.com/WebX?14@@.f020dd5 > > pez Hi folks: Some among us have been working on their own sims. I have to admit I've never tried one. I'm going to start cutting my first 3D code, for a non-sim project I'm working on, in a couple of weeks. I'm a Unix programmer, this is my second Windows project. Does anyone doubt we have the talent right here to get a proper client server architecture, hot graphics, physics tuned to put a smile on your face, multi-threaded optional (for multi processors) sim? Multi platform, Windows and Unix perhaps. Think about it. I would never want to violate Sony's F1 license. Open source and development tools. We have folks who can do wonderful track and vehicle modeling. Anybody interested? What's the state of the home grown sims currently available? I suspect their developers can offer a solid foundation, and would love to see some interest from the rest of us. Larry

"JimC" wrote: > Best nascar sim today and in the for seeable future. Lets hope thecompany > that has the source code is able to bring it back and contiues to have the > vision Papy had. Thanks papy and good luck to the employees. As a sim to meet the desires of RAS is probably never going to be a commercial viability perhaps we should all dig deep into our pockets and employ the likes of Dave Kaemmer et al to join an open source RAS development. Track development, car graphics, sounds could all be done by RAS volunteers, we just need the graphics & physics engines plus the net code. Mind you I have no idea what kind of salary we are talking about nor how many of us would pay. Which is a slight flaw in my cunning plan... Cheers Tony

In article <[email hidden]>, hershey67 @comcast.net says... > I don't think I'll be rushing out to buy anything from Vivendi anytime > in the immediate future. Impressions was a good outfit and there will > probably not be another Papyrus. Too bad the suits don't understand > the market. > > Mike VU and Sierra *destroyed* all the good companies they touched. First with Dynamix and now with Papyrus. Things always go in cycles, so maybe the big corporations with cycle out in a few years and we'll go back to some smaller, better development houses making their own decisions again. -- Rob Berryhill

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>>I'm sure the talented people will surface somewhere else. At least they >still >>have the knowledge they gained at Papy... >> >>Eldred > >Well I heard that Dave Kaemmer hasn't retired yet and had left Papy a >while ago but was still consulting. I think that he had some sort of >non compete clause but now with Papy gone what would he compete >against? Maybe GPL2 will come back. >

That would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

EldredP wrote:

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> > >Andrew McP > > > >Who'll be my role-model? > >Now that my role-model is... > >Gone. > > So...can we call you Al? > :-)

That one would get my vote for best ever music video.... or at lest for best music video without scantily clad women Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Bg9nc.5743$[email hidden]... snip > Mind you I have no idea what kind of salary we are talking about nor how > many of us would pay. Which is a slight flaw in my cunning plan... > > Cheers > Tony You wouldn't know a cunning plan if it were to jump up and down in front of you wearing pink panties and singing "Cunning Plans Are Here Again". ;o) Elrikk With apologies to both you and Black Adder, but couldn't resist.

"elrikk" wrote:

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> > Mind you I have no idea what kind of salary we are talking about nor how > > many of us would pay. Which is a slight flaw in my cunning plan... > > > > Cheers > > Tony > > You wouldn't know a cunning plan if it were to jump up and down in front

of > you wearing pink panties and singing "Cunning Plans Are Here Again". ;o) Nonsense... ...it is a plan as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > So...can we call you Al? > > :-) > > That one would get my vote for best ever music video.... or at lest for > best music video without scantily clad women > >

Yeah? I'll take that for what it's worth - a Norwegian's view on pop music :-) Let me see...A-Ha, one bit of Aqua, and? (FWIW, Sabotage by the Beastie Boys is the best :-) )

EldredP wrote: >>against? Maybe GPL2 will come back. > That would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. With the GPLEA cars, hundreds of tracks and now especially the 65 Mod we've already GOT GPL2 (well, maybe GPL 1.9) basically. Chances of a Papyrus resurrection are slim indeed, but it's not like nothing new has come out last year. So how do you like the 65's drivin' Eldred? Regards, Rudy -------------------- GPLRank: -22

I never understood the need to label the product 'NASCAR' or 'Formula One'. Certainly not at this point. I do for off-the-shelf marketing and selling a commercial end product. But for multiplayer, where the only long term development ever really survives, why not just call it what it is ... stock car and open wheel racing, and be done with all the licensing bs. OLR grosses 10-15 grand a month off customer fees alone, not to mention what they get from sponsors. And I don't see any NASCAR licensing issues coming their way. Even if it did, does anyone really care that it says 'NASCAR', or that the track says 'Lowes'? If two shmucks can make billions selling add space for a browser (google), why can't someone make sense of what really drives online sim racing in a smaller market. It's not like creating a sim is rocket science at this point. What's out there is so hacked, for a starting point anyone interested pretty much would have, at the least, open source code to look at. Or an out of work c++ programmer available. Either way, it's no longer going to cost millions to develop. But it sure would get someone paid. Tim

Colin Harris wrote:

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> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > So...can we call you Al? > > > :-) > > > > That one would get my vote for best ever music video.... or at lest for > > best music video without scantily clad women > > > > > Yeah? I'll take that for what it's worth - a Norwegian's view on pop music > :-) > > Let me see...A-Ha, one bit of Aqua, and?

Oh the horror..... Hi Colin :-D Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

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>EldredP wrote: > >>>against? Maybe GPL2 will come back. > >> That would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. > >With the GPLEA cars, hundreds of tracks and now especially the 65 Mod >we've already GOT GPL2 (well, maybe GPL 1.9) basically. Chances of a >Papyrus resurrection are slim indeed, but it's not like nothing new has >come out last year. > >So how do you like the 65's drivin' Eldred? >

I downloaded it, but I haven't tried it yet. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

> >So how do you like the 65's drivin' Eldred? > > > > I downloaded it, but I haven't tried it yet. > > Eldred Well get crackin' man! You got a little gem there, just unwrap it! (nudge, nudge, wink wink ;) Seriously though... It's quite good! A great contrast to the 1967 campaign! -- Pete Panaia Animator \ 3D Artist "A good racing driver doesn't really look like he's going that fast; but in fact it's a clean, smooth, progressive performance that supplies the real speed." -Sir Jackie Stewart

On Sat, 8 May 2004 07:16 +0100 (BST), [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: >I guess we can finally kiss goodbye even the faintest glimmering of a >tiny, weeny, nano-hope-ette for GPL2 at some point in the faaaar distant >future then? :-) Maybe someone should petition VUG to release the GPL source code to the public domain as a final Thank You to Papyrus customers. Imagine what the mod community could do with that...

On Sat, 8 May 2004 14:29:17 -0500, Rob Berryhill <[email hidden]> wrote: >with Dynamix and now with Papyrus. Things always go in cycles, so maybe >the big corporations with cycle out in a few years and we'll go back to >some smaller, better development houses making their own decisions >again. I think that's quite likely in the long term, as tools improve. Could be quite a few years though... :-(

Joe62 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 8 May 2004 07:16 +0100 (BST), > [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: > > >I guess we can finally kiss goodbye even the faintest glimmering of a > >tiny, weeny, nano-hope-ette for GPL2 at some point in the faaaar distant > >future then? :-) > > Maybe someone should petition VUG to release the GPL source code to > the public domain as a final Thank You to Papyrus customers. Imagine > what the mod community could do with that...

Since the Nx sims are based on the gpl code, don't count on it, besides being a niave thought.

On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:05:47 -0500, "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Since the Nx sims are based on the gpl code, don't count on it, besides >being a niave thought. Why is it naive? It's happened before. And since they're not doing Nascar anymore... VUG is giving old games away (Tribes 1 and 2, you can download full versions from Fileplanet). This isn't much different.

Joe62 <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:05:47 -0500, "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> Since the Nx sims are based on the gpl code, don't count on it, besides

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>>being a niave thought. > > Why is it naive? It's happened before. And since they're not doing > Nascar anymore... > > VUG is giving old games away (Tribes 1 and 2, you can download full > versions from Fileplanet). This isn't much different.

I would doubt there is much licensing issues with Tribes...I don't recall real world advertisers splashing the tribes landscapes with billboards. just a thought. dh

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Joe62 <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:05:47 -0500, "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >> Since the Nx sims are based on the gpl code, don't count on it, > besides > >>being a niave thought. > > > > Why is it naive? It's happened before. And since they're not doing > > Nascar anymore... > > > > VUG is giving old games away (Tribes 1 and 2, you can download full > > versions from Fileplanet). This isn't much different. > > I would doubt there is much licensing issues with Tribes...I don't > recall real world advertisers splashing the tribes landscapes with > billboards. > > just a thought. > dh

Exactly.

On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:35:13 -0500, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote: > I would doubt there is much licensing issues with Tribes...I don't >recall real world advertisers splashing the tribes landscapes with >billboards. Could they release the game code without the art?