CPU for N2

I am planning on upgrading my computer's CPU and would appreciate some advice on which is the fit for N2. I would like to stay in the $200 price range. Is there any major drawbacks to the Cyrix 200mmx in playing N2? Or should I go with an Intel 166mmx (about the same price range). Thanks in advance Hayden

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>>I am planning on upgrading my computer's CPU and would appreciate some >>advice on which is the fit for N2. I would like to stay in the $200 price >>range. Is there any major drawbacks to the Cyrix 200mmx in playing N2? Or >>should I go with an Intel 166mmx (about the same price range). >If $235 dollars is not too far to jump then I'd get an Intel 200MMX. >The AMD K6 200MX is going for about $200 now. It's sounds like >a pretty good processor but I'd do a little more research before I got >one over the Intel. As far as Cyrix goes... you get what you pay for. >You can keep up on the latest prices at: >[link lost in import]

Forget the Intel MMX and go with the K6 AMD. I put these in new builds all day long, and they smoke the Intel chips. As long as your board will support MMX and is configurable, this is the hot chip right now. Heck I've even clocked them at 233 mhz, and they run great. Do your self a favor though and get a GOOD ball bearing fan, that is spring loaded to attach to the ZIFF socket. The biggest occurance of failure I've seen is when the fan falls off your chip! Mike ***lane, Tucson AZ Lifes too short,....don't fold your underwear!

>I am planning on upgrading my computer's CPU and would appreciate some >advice on which is the fit for N2. I would like to stay in the $200 price >range. Is there any major drawbacks to the Cyrix 200mmx in playing N2? Or >should I go with an Intel 166mmx (about the same price range). If $235 dollars is not too far to jump then I'd get an Intel 200MMX. The AMD K6 200MX is going for about $200 now. It's sounds like a pretty good processor but I'd do a little more research before I got one over the Intel. As far as Cyrix goes... you get what you pay for. You can keep up on the latest prices at: http://www.pricewatch.com/catdocs/catlistf.htm If you can wait 2-3 months, the Intel 200MMX will probably be down in your price range. I'm planning on waiting for the 233MMX to come down so I can complete my NROS machine. BTW, Your motherboard must be able to support the MMX in order to use one of the above units. Mike Radler Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

N2 is a pentium sniffer. You will get better performance with an Intel, unless of course you have a rendition card.

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> Forget the Intel MMX and go with the K6 AMD. I put these in new builds > all day long, and they smoke the Intel chips. As long as your board > will support MMX and is configurable, this is the hot chip right now. > Heck I've even clocked them at 233 mhz, and they run great. Do your > self a favor though and get a GOOD ball bearing fan, that is spring > loaded to attach to the ZIFF socket. The biggest occurance of failure > I've seen is when the fan falls off your chip!

Have to disagree slightly with you there Mikey. Yes it is fast, GP2 for one flies on a K6, have one myself so I know, and it compares well against Intel on price, but it seems more and more games start to use the FPU, and as with the Cyrix, that is not a strong point of the AMD. Don`t know if N2 uses FPU though, but I`m sure someone else knows :-) Beers and cheers Goy Fairly satisfied K6-233 owner

:-) Very true. Games like Quake and GP2 will run a little better with the Intel CPU. If you check out "The Mainboard Guide" web-site you will see that Intel is better for games due to its superior FPU. However, if you use your machine for other stuff then the AMD may be the better bet. Despite everything I went for the K6-233 as well and I'm pleased with the improvement over my P60 - well, who wouldn't be! ;o] -- To reply, remove NOSMEG from e-mail address.

Personally, I'd stick with Intel. Depending on what your upgrading from, I think you'll be pretty happy with the 166 mmx. Or better yet, put a few more bucks with it and get the 200 mmx. Make sure your motherboard support's it though. DonB.

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>> I am planning on upgrading my computer's CPU and would appreciate some >> advice on which is the fit for N2. I would like to stay in the $200 >price >> range. Is there any major drawbacks to the Cyrix 200mmx in playing N2? >Or >> should I go with an Intel 166mmx (about the same price range). >> Thanks in advance >> Hayden >Personally, I'd stick with Intel. Depending on what your upgrading from, I >think you'll be pretty happy with the 166 mmx. Or better yet, put a few >more bucks with it and get the 200 mmx. Make sure your motherboard >support's it though. >DonB.

My money for that price (agian if your board can run it) is to go with an AMD K6-200 runs on par and sometimes above a P-Pro 200 plus it has FULL LICENCED MMX instructions which is another plus. Price at Pomon, CA (L.A) on 8/30/97 was $199. Nascar 2 runs like a dream with only a small jitter on Bristol with EVERYTHING turned on- kill infield and acuople other things and no prob. Also AMD has had very little problems running games unlike Cyrix products of which half the games I buy seem to release patches to run on it.... final thing if you go cyrix wait 1-2 months untill the recall is over and they have either been returned or someone else buys the bad ones (problems with their speed rating at the plant wrong chips passing at higher speed than possible)

says... We purchased 3 Magatronic K6-200Mhz systems. They out performed our Dell P II225Mhz machines. They were MUCH faster when doing normal everyday tasks and etc. When it came to networking, they edged the Dell's just slightly. Since they were $600 cheaper and Magatronic's support has always been great, we dumped the Dells. We have 108 AMD K5-133 chips and 5 K6-200 chips and they all seem to be very solid. The K5 & K6 outperform their conterpart Intel chips. -- Lannie Schafroth Iowa Network Services, Inc. 515 830-0443 Phone 4201 Corporate Drive 515 830-0123 Fax West Des Moines, Ia 50266 Any statements or opinions stated are that of my own and not necessarily that of my employer.

I'm going with the 200 mmx overdrive from Intel.You can download a little program from thier homepage to see if your system is compatible. -- Eric If you want to reply by e-mail, remove NO_SPAM from address > >> I am planning on upgrading my computer's CPU and would appreciate some > >> advice on which is the fit for N2. I would like to stay in the $200 > >price > >> range. Is there any major drawbacks to the Cyrix 200mmx in playing N2? > >Or > >> should I go with an Intel 166mmx (about the same price range). > >> Thanks in advance > >> Hayden > >Personally, I'd stick with Intel. Depending on what your upgrading from, I > >think you'll be pretty happy with the 166 mmx. Or better yet, put a few > >more bucks with it and get the 200 mmx. Make sure your motherboard > >support's it though. > >DonB. > My money for that price (agian if your board can run it) is to go with > an AMD K6-200 runs on par and sometimes above a P-Pro 200 plus it has > FULL LICENCED MMX instructions which is another plus. > Price at Pomon, CA (L.A) on 8/30/97 was $199. > Nascar 2 runs like a dream with only a small jitter on Bristol with > EVERYTHING turned on- kill infield and acuople other things and no > prob. > Also AMD has had very little problems running games unlike Cyrix > products of which half the games I buy seem to release patches to run > on it.... final thing if you go cyrix wait 1-2 months untill the > recall is over and they have either been returned or someone else buys > the bad ones (problems with their speed rating at the plant wrong > chips passing at higher speed than possible)

Has anybody done Nascar2 frame rate comparisons between the AMD K6 233MX and the Intel P233MMX (or even the 200s) ? I'm planning to buy one or the other and N2 is the deciding factor. I'm leaning towards the Intel right now based on the superior 3D benchmark results that show the Intel P233MX to be the best socket 7 processor for 3D rendering. The K6 looks great for other apps but *** is pretty much my machine's job and N2 is the primary game. Mike Radler Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

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> Has anybody done Nascar2 frame rate comparisons between the > AMD K6 233MX and the Intel P233MMX (or even the 200s) ? I'm > planning to buy one or the other and N2 is the deciding factor. I'm > leaning towards the Intel right now based on the superior 3D > benchmark results that show the Intel P233MX to be the best > socket 7 processor for 3D rendering. The K6 looks great for other > apps but *** is pretty much my machine's job and N2 is the > primary game. > Mike Radler > Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

Mike, I'm using the K6233(just upgraded from the K6 200 got a great deal) and it runs N2 flawlessly in W95. I'm using the 3D blaster PCI rendition board and with this combo I can run all detail on, draw all 39 cars, and keep the frame rate between 27-30 fps. (without using the -4 switch) Martinsville dips alittle lower but still stays in the 22-27 fps range. The funny thing is that in DOS it runs slower. I have to use the -4 switch to get the same kind of performance. But since I've got it set up for the NROS my W95 performance is the main factor. Hope this helps. Jay Taylor Windy City Motorsports

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> Has anybody done Nascar2 frame rate comparisons between the > AMD K6 233MX and the Intel P233MMX (or even the 200s) ? I'm > planning to buy one or the other and N2 is the deciding factor. I'm > leaning towards the Intel right now based on the superior 3D > benchmark results that show the Intel P233MX to be the best > socket 7 processor for 3D rendering. The K6 looks great for other > apps but *** is pretty much my machine's job and N2 is the > primary game. > Mike Radler > Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

Mike, I can't say I've done comparisons, but I recently purchased the Dell Xps 233 mmx system, 32mb sdram, 12/24x cd rom drive, 4.3 gb hd, and altec lansing acs 490 surround sound speakers with 40 watt subwoofer. I also dropped my Sierra screamin 3d rendition card in it. The system absolutely rocks. I can run Nascar 2 with all graphics on, very smooth framerate. One race I set the min framerate for all graphics to 30, and they all stayed on.(don't remember which track) I also can run N1 with all graphics on. I have some other graphics intensive games, ie Janes Longbow and Mechwarrior Mercenaries,(not rendition games) which I can run with all detail on in 640x480. I have had this system about a month now, and have been well pleased. Don Burnette

Isn't there something in N2 that is optimizes the steering when running a true Pentium chip? Has this been rectified with the patches? Just wondering as I'm thinking of upgrading from my P133 and could use the chip savings to upgrade the MB slightly. Randy

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>> Forget the Intel MMX and go with the K6 AMD. I put these in new builds >> all day long, and they smoke the Intel chips. As long as your board >> will support MMX and is configurable, this is the hot chip right now. >> Heck I've even clocked them at 233 mhz, and they run great. Do your >> self a favor though and get a GOOD ball bearing fan, that is spring >> loaded to attach to the ZIFF socket. The biggest occurance of failure >> I've seen is when the fan falls off your chip! >Have to disagree slightly with you there Mikey. Yes it is fast, GP2 for >one flies on a K6, have one myself so I know, and it compares well >against Intel on price, but it seems more and more games start to use >the FPU, and as with the Cyrix, that is not a strong point of the AMD. >Don`t know if N2 uses FPU though, but I`m sure someone else knows :-) >Beers and cheers >Goy >Fairly satisfied K6-233 owner

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>I'm using the K6233(just upgraded from the K6 200 got a great deal) and >it runs N2 flawlessly in W95. I'm using the 3D blaster PCI rendition >board and with this combo I can run all detail on, draw all 39 cars, and >keep the frame rate between 27-30 fps. (without using the -4 switch) >Martinsville dips alittle lower but still stays in the 22-27 fps range. >The funny thing is that in DOS it runs slower. I have to use the -4 >switch to get the same kind of performance. But since I've got it set up >for the NROS my W95 performance is the main factor. Hope this helps.

That's pretty impressive for Marty with out the -4 switch. Thanks for the info! Mike Radler Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

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>Mike, I can't say I've done comparisons, but I recently purchased the Dell >Xps 233 mmx system, 32mb sdram, 12/24x cd rom drive, 4.3 gb hd, and altec >lansing acs 490 surround sound speakers with 40 watt subwoofer. I also >dropped my Sierra screamin 3d rendition card in it. The system absolutely >rocks. I can run Nascar 2 with all graphics on, very smooth framerate. One >race I set the min framerate for all graphics to 30, and they all stayed >on.(don't remember which track) I also can run N1 with all graphics on. I >have some other graphics intensive games, ie Janes Longbow and Mechwarrior >Mercenaries,(not rendition games) which I can run with all detail on in >640x480. I have had this system about a month now, and have been well >pleased.

Thanks for the info Don! Now trade processors with Jay Taylor so we can get some comparison data ;-) Mike Radler Hawaii Ace League [link lost in import]

> Isn't there something in N2 that is optimizes the steering when > running a true Pentium chip? Has this been rectified with the patches? Define "rectified"? Degrading the steering on Pentium's to be "equal" to the non-Pentium chips? Or, making the non-Pentium chips work better than they did? The former hasn't been done. The latter has. ---Jim

>Isn't there something in N2 that is optimizes the steering when >running a true Pentium chip? Has this been rectified with the patches? There was a problem with the calibration routine when using the Cyrix processor and DMA. The dma screwed up the timing. The Intel Processor has an undocumented instruction that solves the problem. Papy did send out a patch the "improves" the Cyrix situation but It sounds like it still not as good as the Intel. I do not know for sure if the AMD suffers from the same problem but I have not seen any AMD owners complaining about choppy controls. Maybe Jim Sokoloff knows. Mike Radler Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

>There was a problem with the calibration routine when using the >Cyrix processor and DMA. The dma screwed up the timing. Take two: My limited understanding of the problem is that when the video board takes over the bus for DMA it throws off the timing used to calibrate the joystick. The Pentium has an instruction (RDTSC) that allows the new routine to get around the problem. The Cyrix doesn't have this instruction or an alternative therefore it's not 100% compatible and doesn't work very well. Fortunately the Cyrix does work fine with the standard N2 and Rendition nonDMA versions. Mike Radler Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

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> There was a problem with the calibration routine when using the > Cyrix processor and DMA. The dma screwed up the timing. > The Intel Processor has an undocumented instruction that > solves the problem. Papy did send out a patch the "improves" > the Cyrix situation but It sounds like it still not as good as the > Intel. I do not know for sure if the AMD suffers from the same > problem but I have not seen any AMD owners complaining > about choppy controls. Maybe Jim Sokoloff knows.

Just switched from a K6 to a Intel MMX this evening, and apart from having to recalibrate the wheel, I did not notice any difference at all. Beers and cheers Goy

>Just switched from a K6 to a Intel MMX this evening, and apart from >having to recalibrate the wheel, I did not notice any difference at all. Which model K6 did you have and which Intel MMX do you have now. What about performance, any difference there? Thanks for any insight, Mike Radler Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

> Which model K6 did you have and which Intel MMX do you have > now. What about performance, any difference there? Hi Mike Well, it was a K6-233 o/c to 250 and I now have a P200MMX o/c to 208. Performance; have not had time to check properly at N2 tracks(too busy testing at Long Beach for the next round in TPTCC :-), but after reading your post I had a quick blast at Watkins Glen, and I "feel" I get almost the same frame rate, but that is a guestimate. This suggests to me that N2 uses FPU to some degree, opinons anyone ?, because in GP2 the K6 is way faster than an IntelMMX at the SAME clock speed, and noticeably so. So wich one do you buy ? Well if you don`t have the money to gamble, I`d go for the IntelMMX, because with an Intel you know what you get, solid reliable performance, not that the K6 is bad, far from it, but if more and more games use the FPU, then what ? I`ve been very happy with my K6 though, it has not given me any problems running games and Win95 apps, unlike my old Cyrix150+, so AMD has done a good job here, it`s just that it`s sort of "safe" to buy Intel, just like buying Microsoft operating systems and Soundblaster cards, you know it may not be the best, but it will be widely supported. Beers and cheers Goy

Where did you see this for $235 dollars?Cheapest I could find it was about $297.I would definatly like to look in to this. Thanks,Eric If you want to reply by e-mail, remove NO_SPAM from address

> So wich one do you buy ? Well if you don`t have the money to gamble, I`d > go for the IntelMMX, because with an Intel you know what you get, solid > reliable performance, not that the K6 is bad, far from it, but if more > and more games use the FPU, then what ? From what I understand, GPL and future Papy sims (as well as many other games, but who's worried about that? :-)) will use the FPU *HEAVILY*... Something to keep in mind if *** is the main reason for upgrading... ---Jim

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> > So wich one do you buy ? Well if you don`t have the money to gamble, I`d > > go for the IntelMMX, because with an Intel you know what you get, solid > > reliable performance, not that the K6 is bad, far from it, but if more > > and more games use the FPU, then what ? > From what I understand, GPL and future Papy sims (as well as many other > games, but who's worried about that? :-)) will use the FPU *HEAVILY*... > Something to keep in mind if *** is the main reason for upgrading... > ---Jim

"Main" reason for upgrading, are there others you mean.............wow !!! Thanks for the input on FPU usage Jim, but do N2 use FPU ? Beers and cheers Goy

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> > Have to disagree slightly with you there Mikey. Yes it is fast, GP2 > for > > one flies on a K6, have one myself so I know, and it compares well > > against Intel on price, but it seems more and more games start to > use > > the FPU, and as with the Cyrix, that is not a strong point of the > AMD. > > Don`t know if N2 uses FPU though, but I`m sure someone else knows > :-) > Very true. Games like Quake and GP2 will run a little better with the > Intel CPU. If you check out "The Mainboard Guide" web-site you will > see that Intel is better for games due to its superior FPU. However, > if you use your machine for other stuff then the AMD may be the > better bet. > > Fairly satisfied K6-233 owner > Despite everything I went for the K6-233 as well and I'm pleased with > the improvement over my P60 - well, who wouldn't be! ;o] > -- > To reply, remove NOSMEG from e-mail address.

I'll have to agree with you there. I went from a P100 to a k6-233 and i'm very pleased with it. N2 flies, as does GP2 and ICR2. I don't play quake that much, so it doesn't matter for me there. I built this system for sim racing. john

> "Main" reason for upgrading, are there others you mean.............wow > !!! > Thanks for the input on FPU usage Jim, but do N2 use FPU ? No. ---Jim

Hmm,, I was running on a plain Pentium 166 with a Matrox and N2 was running okayish.. But to play smoothly I had to turn of the road textures. Recently got me a Pentium II -266 with Matrox II, and now I can run with everything on fine.. only very slight jumps when running down at track with all cars in front and full textures on in full screen view. But internal view is smooth like a dream all the time. I think the most important issue here is wether you think games in the future will be using the FPU, which we know Pentium Pros and II are going kick ***in. Or if you think they will stick to mainly integer routines, in which case obviously K6 and M2s are going to be much faster. Personally I think the PII are too expensive,thats likely to change, but they are a good choice cos you know you'll be okay fo whatever happens, FPU or no FPU. The MMX arguement is a waste of time now, cos they all got em. Sam

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>>I am planning on upgrading my computer's CPU and would appreciate some >>advice on which is the fit for N2. I would like to stay in the $200 price >>range. Is there any major drawbacks to the Cyrix 200mmx in playing N2? Or >>should I go with an Intel 166mmx (about the same price range). >If $235 dollars is not too far to jump then I'd get an Intel 200MMX. >The AMD K6 200MX is going for about $200 now. It's sounds like >a pretty good processor but I'd do a little more research before I got >one over the Intel. As far as Cyrix goes... you get what you pay for. >You can keep up on the latest prices at: >[link lost in import] >If you can wait 2-3 months, the Intel 200MMX will probably be down >in your price range. I'm planning on waiting for the 233MMX to come >down so I can complete my NROS machine. >BTW, Your motherboard must be able to support the MMX in order >to use one of the above units. >Mike Radler >Hawaii Ace League [link lost in import]

: > : > Despite everything I went for the K6-233 as well and I'm pleased with : > the improvement over my P60 - well, who wouldn't be! ;o] : > : I'll have to agree with you there. I went from a P100 to a k6-233 and : i'm very pleased with it. N2 flies, as does GP2 and ICR2. I don't : play quake that much, so it doesn't matter for me there. I built this : system for sim racing. But the K6 doesn't got a pipelined FPU. And there is only 1 MMX unit in a K6. I think maybe a P200MMX will outperform the K6 in most games today. Consider that they are roughly the same price. Bernard Shum