N2 Car fishtailing (Setup Problem)

I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I downl oaded the N2 demo and got e***d enough to buy the full version of NASCAR2. However, when I installed the full version and hopped into the drivers seat I found the car would fishtail and then sway back and forth after coming out of corners. I tried to remedy the problem by changing my skill level identical to Jeff Gordon's and then downloading some pre-made car setups for specific tracks. Not much luck. I have pushed a little more weight to the rear of the car and have pushed the rear spoiler up to 70 degrees. This helped somewhat but slowed the car down so much that it made it difficult to compete with the AI cars in the 95 to 100 percent strength range and I still fish and sway coming out of the corners... especially coming out of the tri-oval at Dega. The only way to stop the swaying is to either tap the wall with the car or slow down and brake, neither of which is a good way to win races. Any suggestions??? -Dave NOSPAM has been added to my email address to prevent unwanted SPAMMAGE

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> I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I downl oaded the N2 demo and got > e***d enough to buy the full version of NASCAR2. However, when I > installed the full version and hopped into the drivers seat I found the car > would fishtail and then sway back and forth after coming out of corners. > I tried to remedy the problem by changing my skill level identical to Jeff > Gordon's

The skill level number for the player means NOTHING to the game. (The skill level for the player is determined dynamically, by the player's control inputs... :-) ) Setup is almost never the first thing to change. Try driving with the Stock FAST or ACE setups. Setups downloaded from on-line are often too "twitchy" for novice players. Learn to drive first, then work on setups. Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the opposite of what you want. Rear spoiler should be around 70 degrees at everywhere except Taladega. (At least for starters...) On most courses, you NEED to slow down and brake. Slowing down and braking is actually an *excellent* way to win races... :-) If you're using a keyboard or a cheap joystick, improve that. If you aren't getting at least 25 fps, turn down the graphics details until you are. ---Jim

On 4 Aug 1997 16:17:26 GMT, "David Sikkink"

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>I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I downl oaded the N2 demo and got >e***d enough to buy the full version of NASCAR2. However, when I >installed the full version and hopped into the drivers seat I found the car >would fishtail and then sway back and forth after coming out of corners. >I tried to remedy the problem by changing my skill level identical to Jeff >Gordon's and then downloading some pre-made car setups for specific tracks. >Not much luck. I have pushed a little more weight to the rear of the car >and have pushed the rear spoiler up to 70 degrees. This helped somewhat but >slowed the car down so much that it made it difficult to compete with the >AI cars in the 95 to 100 percent strength range and I still fish and sway >coming out of the corners... especially coming out of the tri-oval at Dega. >The only way to stop the swaying is to either tap the wall with the car or >slow down and brake, neither of which is a good way to win races. >Any suggestions???

Setup mechanics is a very broad subject, and the troubleshooting differs from driver to driver, depending on how a particular driver "feels out" his car. With that in mind, here are a few tips: You're suffering from a loose condition on your race car. Generally, adding spoiler helps at certain tracks, but the rear weight you're putting in the car can negate that effect. Check your shock settings. If they're too stiff, especially in the right rear, your wheels will lose grip in the turns. Softer shocks allow more chassis roll and tighten the car up. Also, check your tire pressure -- over-inflated tires do not allow the *** patch full contact on the racing surface. A good method of quickly curing a loose condition is adding cross-weight to the car (otherwise known as adding wedge). You'll want to add maybe 5-10 pounds of cross-weight to the car to help tighten it up. This is something you can play with during pit stops and will allow you to "chase" the setup as a race goes on. Watch out, though -- you don't want to eliminate your oversteer (loose condition/fishtailing) completely. A loose race car is faster than a car with a push (understeer) -- which, if you don't know, means that the car will not want to turn in the corners. Your ideal baseline setup will start out loose for 10-12 laps, but will start "coming in" to a neutral setting as the race wears on. Your N2 manual should go into a little more depth about all this. Hope this helps you out! Tony -- Papyrus Design Group, Inc. The views expressed in this message are mine entirely and do not represent Papyrus or Sierra in any official capacity.

(Buncha stuff snipped) This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his car. Just wondering, RICKEY

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> Re: N2 Loose Exiting the corners > Consider these options: > 1. First, on the lighter side--never do anything like Jeff Gordon--always > do as Earnhardt, Waltrip, Marcis, Rudd, Marlin, Martin or anyone else !!! > :) > 2. Seriously, "loose out the corners" > a. lower left front tire pressure OR > b. stiffen LF shock OR > c. raise LR tire pressure OR > d..stiffen LR shock > try each one separately--then race abt 5-10 laps and see if it helped. If > a did not then ADD b and on and on. > My guess is youll correct it with lowering LF tire press' and maybe a bit > of soften' of LF shock > #3. Next time you visit the website called "theuspits" look for a > file called Jan Kohls "NASCAR Setup Guide" print it out and save it. ( I > think its at this site) > Steve

By the way, and I know this is gonna sound STUPID,if it isnt,,,,but,,,,your autosteer isnt turned on is it? just wondering,,,I went through about twenty minutes of agony after accidentally turning this on, once without realising it... <shrugs> who knows?? -- Sit down,,Strap in,,Shut up,,Hang on,,Go fast,,Turn left,,Kiss Trophy Girl GGGGGGgoooo #3,,,31,,,28,,,94,,,6,,,5,,,18,,,8,,, Handy^man

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>On 4 Aug 1997 16:17:26 GMT, "David Sikkink" >>I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I downl oaded the N2 demo and got >>e***d enough to buy the full version of NASCAR2. However, when I >>installed the full version and hopped into the drivers seat I found the car >>would fishtail and then sway back and forth after coming out of corners. >You're suffering from a loose condition on your race car. Generally, >adding spoiler helps at certain tracks, but the rear weight you're >putting in the car can negate that effect. Check your shock settings.

Moving the weight bias toward the rear will loosen the car and cause it to fishtail. Move the weight toward the front of the car until you can control it. Adding spoiler is a finer control over handling of the car and won't overcome the effect of too much weight on the rear. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick L. Dotson Delco Electronics IWCC #98 Mountain Dew Kokomo, Indiana Audio Systems - Playback Can-Am Motor Sports R328 1-1293 Lead Mechanical Engineer Chevrolet-Monte Carlo -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: N2 Loose Exiting the corners Consider these options: 1. First, on the lighter side--never do anything like Jeff Gordon--always do as Earnhardt, Waltrip, Marcis, Rudd, Marlin, Martin or anyone else !!! :) 2. Seriously, "loose out the corners" a. lower left front tire pressure OR b. stiffen LF shock OR c. raise LR tire pressure OR d..stiffen LR shock try each one separately--then race abt 5-10 laps and see if it helped. If a did not then ADD b and on and on. My guess is youll correct it with lowering LF tire press' and maybe a bit of soften' of LF shock #3. Next time you visit the website called "theuspits" look for a file called Jan Kohls "NASCAR Setup Guide" print it out and save it. ( I think its at this site) Steve

lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!audrey02. news.aol.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Subject: Re: N2 Car fishtailing (Setup Problem) Date: 5 Aug 1997 02:13:17 GMT Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder02.news.aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Re: N2 Loose Exiting the corners Consider these options: 1. First, on the lighter side--never do anything like Jeff Gordon--always do as Earnhardt, Waltrip, Marcis, Rudd, Marlin, Martin or anyone else !!! :) 2. Seriously, "loose out the corners" a. lower left front tire pressure OR b. stiffen LF shock OR c. raise LR tire pressure OR d..stiffen LR shock try each one separately--then race abt 5-10 laps and see if it helped. If a did not then ADD b and on and on. My guess is youll correct it with lowering LF tire press' and maybe a bit of soften' of LF shock #3. Next time you visit the website called "theuspits" look for a file called Jan Kohls "NASCAR Setup Guide" print it out and save it. ( I think its at this site) Steve < Re: Loose outa the corners Definately, confirmed, go here and d/l Jan Kohls Setup Guides http://www.theuspits.com/raceline.html look for "quik Fix Guide for N2 and N1 Steve

> > Any suggestions??? By private e-mail exchange, we determined that he had his Steering Hinder turned on... Everyone: Turn OFF steering help. It doesn't... :-) ---Jim PS: Probably FAQ material...

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> >> Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the > >> opposite of what you want. > >> ---Jim > >This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of > >thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater > >amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has > >some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand > >how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his > >car. > >Just wondering, > >RICKEY > If you were driving relatively straight, perhaps. However, when you > go around a turn, the more weight in the rear you have, the more > momentum the rear of the car has, making it 'want' to continue in the > same path it's already going (as opposed to the way you point the > front of the car to face), causing the car to fishtail and/or be > 'loose.'

Oh, No!! It's the weight bias thing again!!!!:) More rear weight will make the car loose, felt best on the ovals. Actually, Jim & co did get it right, although I did'nt believe them initially.... If you move the bias way fwd, the car will really bite on the turn in, it will be loose, but as the car settles down, it will start to push. On the road courses, I set the weight almost max fwd, and stiffen the rear shocks up to a point where they are almost identical to the fronts. This way the car turns in sharply, and does'nt push in mid-corner. This setup is not recommendable on the ovals, though, as you will find your rear bumper pasted to the wall...:) Happy to see they found a cure for the fishtailing, I would have suggested too much steering lock.. Matt -- Matthew Birger Knutsen Cheek Racing Cars Flatebyveien 5, N-1792 Norway Fax (+47) 69 19 02 55 Mobile: (+47) 92 44 66 50 http://home.sn.no/~kareknut/ -----Please Remove "NoSpam" when replying.-----

Going into the corner, the added weight in the rear will cause you to be looser. But out of the corner it should tighten it up a bit. Decreasing the LR shock will help cure a loose car because it will transfer more weight to that corner of the car under acceleration. Give it a try, it always works for me. Also, maybe you are driving it to hard.....Slow Down a little.

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> On Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:19:45 -0400, Rickey Clodfelter > >(Buncha stuff snipped) > >> Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the > >> opposite of what you want. > >> ---Jim > >This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of > >thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater > >amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has > >some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand > >how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his > >car. > >Just wondering, > >RICKEY > If you were driving relatively straight, perhaps. However, when you > go around a turn, the more weight in the rear you have, the more > momentum the rear of the car has, making it 'want' to continue in the > same path it's already going (as opposed to the way you point the > front of the car to face), causing the car to fishtail and/or be > 'loose.'

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> > > Any suggestions??? > By private e-mail exchange, we determined that he had his Steering > Hinder turned on... > Everyone: Turn OFF steering help. It doesn't... :-) > ---Jim > PS: Probably FAQ material...

hehe,,,I was right ;) but a little late, I see...I accidentally turned this on while setting up for a race once,,,,and had never used it, so I didnt know WHAT the heck was Wrong! took a few minutes to figure it out...by the way, a lot of folks seem so interested in cheating,,,anyone ever thought what a little code piddling could do to the steering help function? hmmm,,, steering help, auto shift and brake,,, Almost sounds like AI, or an autodrive robot, doesnt it? I have often wondered if some havent actually tried this,,, would make for nice laps, to just turn the throttle on and let go of the wheel ???? I would hope not, but to hear some of the folks on this NG talk, there are SEVERAL people capable of such a hack,,, makes you wonder, huh ? -- Sit down,,Strap in,,Shut up,,Hang on,,Go fast,,Turn left,,Kiss Trophy Girl GGGGGGgoooo #3,,,31,,,28,,,94,,,6,,,5,,,18,,,8,,, Handy^man

On Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:19:45 -0400, Rickey Clodfelter

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>(Buncha stuff snipped) >> Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the >> opposite of what you want. >> ---Jim >This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of >thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater >amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has >some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand >how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his >car. >Just wondering, >RICKEY

If you were driving relatively straight, perhaps. However, when you go around a turn, the more weight in the rear you have, the more momentum the rear of the car has, making it 'want' to continue in the same path it's already going (as opposed to the way you point the front of the car to face), causing the car to fishtail and/or be 'loose.'

>2. Seriously, "loose out the corners" >a. lower left front tire pressure OR >b. stiffen LF shock OR Don't the effects of these two changes cancel each other out? In my experience, stiffening the LF shock will tighten the car on exit, but lowering LF tire pressure will have the opposite effect - and to a greater degree. For me, it seems that both of these options _loosen_ the car on exit. I usually raise the LF pressure/stiffen LF shock and lower LR pressure/soften LR shock to tighten the car on exit. Of course the tire pressure adjustment has a greater effect while the shock adjustment is more of a fine-tune operation. Can someone else comment on this? Maybe I'm on the wrong track with these settings... Thanks, ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick L. Dotson Delco Electronics IWCC #98 Mountain Dew Kokomo, Indiana Audio Systems - Playback Can-Am Motor Sports R328 1-1293 Lead Mechanical Engineer Chevrolet-Monte Carlo -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> >> Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the > >> opposite of what you want. > >This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of > >thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater > >amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has > >some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand > >how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his > >car. > This is somewhat off on a tangent, but I've always heard the scariest > handling car on the road was the Porsche 911, which has a rear weight > bias. It always went down the same way: > Enter a corner hard. > Car gets loose > Driver gets scared and chops the throttle. > Car gets WAY ugly, and goes right around. > I suppose you have more inital traction at the rear, but once you get > a weight like that moving, it's harder to stop. > I'm no engineer or expert, but that's the way I'd interpret it. > Comments welcome. > --

this is discribed as "lift throttle oversteer". and the only way to cure the condition when it starts is to plant the throttle hard and drive the car off the turn. this is true in nascar as well. if you find the car getting loose coming off the turn and you lift off the gas abruptly then the loose condition will worsen and the car will come right around on you. martinsville is a track that this happens quite easily at. this can be used to your benifit if the car is tight coming off. if when you apply the gas to drive off the turn it starts to push burping the gas quick can get it loose enough to drive off with out hitting the wall. -- maxwell

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> > This is somewhat off on a tangent, but I've always heard the scariest > > handling car on the road was the Porsche 911 > Oh, I'd have to say that an old swing-axle (pre 1969) VW Beetle is > scarier than a 911. But at much lower speeds... > ---Jim

Yeah, I had a '64 1/2 "Bug". It was great for doing donuts in icy parking lots. ;) bob

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> > This is somewhat off on a tangent, but I've always heard the scariest > > handling car on the road was the Porsche 911 > Oh, I'd have to say that an old swing-axle (pre 1969) VW Beetle is > scarier than a 911. But at much lower speeds... > ---Jim

True, but I had a '71 VW Squareback that always seemed capable of creating unwanted thrills above 45mph. -- God Bless, Steve (remove the <remove this> from my address when replying via e-mail)

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>> > This is somewhat off on a tangent, but I've always heard the scariest >> > handling car on the road was the Porsche 911 >> Oh, I'd have to say that an old swing-axle (pre 1969) VW Beetle is >> scarier than a 911. But at much lower speeds... >> ---Jim >Yeah, I had a '64 1/2 "Bug". It was great for doing donuts in icy >parking lots. ;)

I wouldn't recommend slaming the brakes on a Jeep CJ5 at anything over 35 mph... Marc

Make certain that you don't have steering assist enabled. This gave me a similar problem when I first got the game. My 2 year old son, however, prefers steering assist on for some reason!!

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> > I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I downl oaded the N2 demo > and got > > e***d enough to buy the full version of NASCAR2. However, when I > > installed the full version and hopped into the drivers seat I found > the car > > would fishtail and then sway back and forth after coming out of > corners. > > I tried to remedy the problem by changing my skill level identical > to Jeff > > Gordon's > The skill level number for the player means NOTHING to the game. (The > skill level for the player is determined dynamically, by the player's > control inputs... :-) ) > > and then downloading some pre-made car setups for specific tracks. > Setup is almost never the first thing to change. Try driving with the > Stock FAST or ACE setups. Setups downloaded from on-line are often too > "twitchy" for novice players. Learn to drive first, then work on > setups. > > Not much luck. I have pushed a little more weight to the rear of the > car > Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the > opposite of what you want. > > and have pushed the rear spoiler up to 70 degrees. This helped > somewhat but > > slowed the car down so much that it made it difficult to compete > with the > > AI cars in the 95 to 100 percent strength range and I still fish and > sway > > coming out of the corners... especially coming out of the tri-oval > at Dega. > Rear spoiler should be around 70 degrees at everywhere except > Taladega. > (At least for starters...) > > The only way to stop the swaying is to either tap the wall with the > car or > > slow down and brake, neither of which is a good way to win races. > On most courses, you NEED to slow down and brake. Slowing down and > braking is actually an *excellent* way to win races... :-) > > Any suggestions??? > If you're using a keyboard or a cheap joystick, improve that. If you > aren't getting at least 25 fps, turn down the graphics details until > you > are. > ---Jim

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Actually, the LF shock has a minimal effect on the balance of the car exiting the corner. I find that the balance of the rear wheels is more critical than the LF. However, as you stated, these two suggestions have an opposite effect. Lowering tire pressure tends to increase grip, while stiffening a shcok tends to reduce grip. In general, you're correct. Stiffening the LR gives the RR better grip which causes the car to want to turn left on the exit of a left-hand corner. Agreed. I use tire pressure to equalize heat and tire wear, and then fine tune the setup with shocks. Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html-ssi Late Night Series: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong....

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>>Path: >lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!audrey02. >news.aol.com!not-for-mail >Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators >Subject: Re: N2 Car fishtailing (Setup Problem) >Date: 5 Aug 1997 02:13:17 GMT >Lines: 28 >NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder02.news.aol.com >Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com >Re: N2 Loose Exiting the corners >Consider these options: >1. First, on the lighter side--never do anything like Jeff Gordon--always >do as Earnhardt, Waltrip, Marcis, Rudd, Marlin, Martin or anyone else !!! > :) >2. Seriously, "loose out the corners" >a. lower left front tire pressure OR >b. stiffen LF shock OR >c. raise LR tire pressure OR >d..stiffen LR shock