End of Papyrus

Gentlemen, I think we are witnessing the end of Papyrus as we know it. I have followed the newsgroup for a very long time and several things that have happened have lead me to believe there will be no Nascar 3, NROS, or Grand Prix Legends. I have listed below my reasoning. 1. EA has acquired exclusive Nascar license. I am not sure if if an exclusive licensing but there seemed to be a heavy emphasis on it in the press releases at both EA and Nascar. EA made a Nascar game before for the playstation and there wasnt such a big deal made about it, this announcement seemed bigger. 2. Papyrus went to E3 but set up five blocks away from the convention center. That seems to be the action of a company who is trying to keep a very low profile which seems odd for a company who is supposedly partnering with Nascar next month to start NROS. I would think they would have demoing the heck out of that at the convention, with Nascar helping by supplying a Cup driver on the other end to race against. I mean this was supposed to be a certified Nascar division. 3. Papyrus demoed SODA but NOT Grand Prix Legends. That leads me to believe that SODA will be the last game Papyrus releases. It was too close to done to not release it. You know they have at least an alpha version of Grand Prix Legends to demo if they wanted to. 4. Ed Martin left Papyrus, why would a guy who put everything into NROS leave before it started? I mean this is the kind of project that could be your meal ticket for years to come. I bet Ed still reads this newsgroup and would love to reply but I am sure he signed a legal agreement when he left Sierra. Who has Papyrus officially replaced Ed with? 5. Who is really left from the original Papyrus? I dont know maybe someone in ras knows. I also wondered what has happened to our friend Tony Johns? I wonder if he has regretted his decision to go to Papyrus yet? I hope for his sake it works out for him, he seemed to be a really nice guy. It would be really easy to blame Sierra in all of this, but lets remember that Papyrus sold to Sierra. Papyrus wasnt a publicly traded company so they didnt have to sell they chose to. It seems those top Papyrus guys sold their company took their cash and bolted. I hope I am wrong on this but there does seem to be a lot of signs pointing towards the end of Papyrus. Take care Greg Alexander

Nascar98 is a Playstation only title so far. Keep in mind that none of EA's other sports titles are really what I'd call exclusive. This decision was made by CUC, not Papyrus. As Jim S. has stated, CUC wanted to be away from the lights and noise of the Congress Center floor to get full attention and knew that they were big enough to get away with it (Papy, Dynamix, Sierra, Blizzard, Valve). It may have been inconvienent for us, but the press would make the hike regardless (just to see Half-life in action was worth the walk). SODA is due out this winter is isn't even in a pre-alpha stage, thus it was being shown behind closed doors to press only. Neither GPL nor the NRO were at a stage that Papy deemed it would be worth showing them off. While I can't comment on the reasons around Ed's departure (it would be mere speculation), Dave Matson is now his replacment. Hm... in just over a year Papy has lost about 3 people who were in a high enough position for us to know about, Rick Genter, Ed Martin, and Jim Sokoloff. Relax, Papy isn't going anywhere. -- http://ebusch.akorn.net

I don't see why SODA would be the last game Papy releases, just because they didn't show GPL. SODA is probably in it's pre-alpha/alpha stage, and will be released this Fall/Winter. GPL will be released next Spring, so they probably don't have anything that is really worth showing off. Of course there will be future games, but since any of those won't be released until Fall/Winter of '98 (or until GPL has been released, at least), Papyrus won't have anything else worth showing off. I don't know why Ed left, but I think that Rick left because he wanted more creative freedom. Jim left to another company (don't know which one), and I think it was because it would be better for him in the long-run. Just because a few people leave a company, doesn't mean that the company is in trouble. I think you are wrong on this...Papyrus isn't going to end any time soon.

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> Gentlemen, I think we are witnessing the end of Papyrus as we know it. > I have followed the newsgroup for a very long time and several things > that have happened have lead me to believe there will be no Nascar 3, > NROS, or Grand Prix Legends. I have listed below my reasoning. > 1. EA has acquired exclusive Nascar license. I am not sure if if an > exclusive licensing but there seemed to be a heavy emphasis on it in > the press releases at both EA and Nascar.

Well, before you go on with the post you had here, wouldn't it be better to get the facts straight? The only Papyrus product I have any interest in is the NASCAR games - so what is important to find out is whether or not EA has indeed acquired an "exclusive" license. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alan J. Claffie PARSIMONIOUS Internet Grand National aclaffie 'at' bgnn.com RACING #93 Buick Riviera Southern New England Correspondent for "The Racin' Paper" WWW.BGNN.COM - NASCAR's Busch North Series on the Internet --- SPAMbot bait below:

The license is not exclusive, and it seems to only be for console games(PSX, Sony, etc...) See this blip below..... Electronic Arts (Nasdaq:ERTS), a leading global interactive entertainment software company, announced at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) trade show that it had acquired the interactive rights to the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing, Inc. The license grants Electronic Arts (EA) the rights to develop a series of interactive racing games, based on NASCAR racing. The first game to be developed using this key license is NASCAR 98 and is due to ship in the Fall of 1997 on the PlayStation and Sega Saturn. They have said that it was chosen for companies, not people like us..... Could be that since SODA is supposed to be out in Winter97 and GPL is not going to be out until Spring 98 that GPL may not far enough along to show it. I don't see anything funny here... Why did he leave? Uh, better job? More money? Better people? We can only hope that you have not seen the future.... -- Mike's Nascar World http://www.netins.net/showcase/mpete/nascar.html Stop on by, what can it hurt?

> 1. EA has acquired exclusive Nascar license. I am not sure if if an > exclusive licensing but there seemed to be a heavy emphasis on it in > the press releases at both EA and Nascar. EA made a Nascar game > before for the playstation and there wasnt such a big deal made about > it, this announcement seemed bigger. EA's license is not exclusive. To my knowledge (and I would probably know), EA has not previously made a NASCAR game for the PSX. CUC Software made that decision, presumably because they know they can afford to get a captive audience by forcing them away from the sound and fury of the rest of E3. Yeah, everyone KNOWS that there's an alpha version of GPL to demo. Hell, they're probably just going to sit on it for a few years until the technology is totally outdated. By the way, all those same people know what's in Area 51. I'm sure you know the answer, since you claim to have been following the Papy news closely. I find it strange that you, someone that I've never heard of, is "sure" about what legal agreements exist between Papyrus and former employees. I certainly didn't see you cc'd on any of the exit paperwork when I left. Most of the heavy hitters: read the manuals and credits for IndyCar, NASCAR1, ICR2, and N2. Pretty much everyone who makes Papyrus games great is still there. Any healthy company has some non-zero level of employee turnover. It's unavoidable. Another company came in and made me an offer that was in my best interest. I miss Papyrus, but I still know I did the right thing by taking the other opportunity; can't blame Papy for that one. Rick Genter left to start his own game company; can anyone blame Papyrus for that? As much as you'd like to think otherwise, there is life outside of Papyrus, and sometimes employees of any company will leave to find another pasture. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's following their dream, sometimes it's following their spouse,sometimes it's just for a change of pace. Papy's not going anywhere as far I can tell, *** theories aside. ---Jim

(snip) Hi Greg, Your NROS statement may be a bit premature. In the last couple of days TEN reps have been very active on the TEN news server, answering NROS questions and giving a bit of technical advice on the upcoming NROS. Sean Butcher and Dave Matson have also posted there, as well. Seems to me that the NROS is going to be a reality. Regards, Gavel

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> > Gentlemen, I think we are witnessing the end of Papyrus as we know it. > > I have followed the newsgroup for a very long time and several things > > that have happened have lead me to believe there will be no Nascar 3, > > NROS, or Grand Prix Legends. I have listed below my reasoning. > > 1. EA has acquired exclusive Nascar license. I am not sure if if an > > exclusive licensing but there seemed to be a heavy emphasis on it in > > the press releases at both EA and Nascar. > Well, before you go on with the post you had here, wouldn't it be better > to get the facts straight? The only Papyrus product I have any interest in > is the NASCAR games - so what is important to find out is whether or not > EA has indeed acquired an "exclusive" license.

Why should he trouble himself with the facts? Facts are so, well, boring. So, constraining... Far better to just spout off with "conclusions" about the way the world works and why Papy is going to hell in a handbasket. I'll give you a hint, which doesn't rely on inside information: CUC is a publicly traded company. If EA had an exclusive license to NASCAR products, and CUC is aware of this, don't you believe that CUC would have to disclose this relevant material fact (that they would be unable to produce NASCAR games) to their shareholders? Checking my Maxxnet news feed, I don't see any such story... From that, draw what conclusions you will... ---Jim

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>> 1. EA has acquired exclusive Nascar license. I am not sure if if an >> exclusive licensing but there seemed to be a heavy emphasis on it in >> the press releases at both EA and Nascar. EA made a Nascar game >> before for the playstation and there wasnt such a big deal made about >> it, this announcement seemed bigger. >EA's license is not exclusive. To my knowledge (and I would probably >know), EA has not previously made a NASCAR game for the PSX.

I stated earlier that I was not sure if there was an exclusive license, you say there isnt one which is fine with me. I am hoping that Papyrus would continue to make racing sims. I just hope the same thing that happened with Indycar didnt happen with Nascar. If that was their strategy I hope they found it to be successful. I personally thought that was the beauty of these conventions, being able to see all the companies under one roof looking and comparing each companies products. If there isnt an alpha version of GPL then there isnt but from my understanding they didnt preview NROS which is supposed to start in late July. Is there not an alpha for that one either? BTW I think that Elvis and YMenard are in Area 51, but please dont tell anyone I know. I dont know the answer that is why I posed a rhetorical question. I wish Ed were still with Papyrus. I thought he was doing an good job. I am sorry you have never heard of me, I didnt know that was a requisite to either read or post in a Usenet newsgroup. The use of the word sure on my part was an error and I retract that, but I still find it odd that a guy who posted in here on a regular basis doesnt post at all anymore. I enjoyed his posts and his candor. I am also familiar with that also, I too have left companies for better opportunities. If that was the case with all these people then good for them. I am sorry that you didnt like my post, but those were just my opinions. I am not an expert, nor did I claim to be. I do however read ras every day and wanted to offer my opinions for general discussion. I didnt want to burn down Nasnet or lead ras. I have enjoyed Papyrus games and hope they continue to lead the auto simulation world, but as a consumer I also appreciate honest, candid information. Thanks for you response and best wishes Greg Alexander

I agree completely. Right now, all we know is that NASNET is ending. But really, i think its safe to papy is to. Hopefully, with these crappy games they should...

I agree to a degree. For example look at Dynamix when Sierra purchased it. They had an excellent game FPS: Football and Football Pro and FPS: Baseball. But through the years the product line from Dyanmix has degraded over the years (Football 96, 97, etc.) and can only be attributed to the fact that the original members of Dynamix are gone and replaced with people who have much less expertise in the area than the original guys. Same thing is happening to Papyrus. Original employees are leaving and being replaced with people with less expertise in racing sims. Through the years you'll probably see less quality products released from Papyrus.

Boy, I don't know where to begin. I'd rather not get into a long post here, but I am continually amazed at how these posts get started. Papyrus has been in a very fortunate position over the last few years by being the only game company with a NASCAR license. We have been very successful with our NASCAR products (as has NASCAR) and have a great working relationship with NASCAR. NASCAR made a decision to allow EA interactive rights to their property as well. Would we prefer to be the only NASCAR player in town? You bet, but it's not the case anymore. Does that mean we won't be doing anymore NASCAR products? ABSOLUTELY NOT. We are committed to that license and improving our NASCAR games in the future (we are also committed to expanding our product line into other racing series, and by the way, we have not given up on CART). This competition between EA and Papyrus can only help one group, that's you the customer. (Actually, I think it can really help the developers at EA and Papyrus create better product). As far as EA having more muscle to "edge" Papyrus out of the NASCAR license, remember that Papyrus is part of Sierra which is part of CUC which also owns Davidson, Blizzard, Berkely Systems, among others. CUC has plenty of money and muscle to stay right in this market. Adam Levesque General Manager - Papyrus

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>>> 1. EA has acquired exclusive Nascar license. I am not sure if if an >>> exclusive licensing but there seemed to be a heavy emphasis on it in >>> the press releases at both EA and Nascar. EA made a Nascar game >>> before for the playstation and there wasnt such a big deal made about >>> it, this announcement seemed bigger. >>EA's license is not exclusive. To my knowledge (and I would probably >>know), EA has not previously made a NASCAR game for the PSX. >I stated earlier that I was not sure if there was an exclusive >license, you say there isnt one which is fine with me. I am hoping >that Papyrus would continue to make racing sims. I just hope the same >thing that happened with Indycar didnt happen with Nascar. >>> 2. Papyrus went to E3 but set up five blocks away from the convention >>> center. That seems to be the action of a company who is trying to >>> keep a very low profile which seems odd for a company who is >>> supposedly partnering with Nascar next month to start NROS. >>CUC Software made that decision, presumably because they know they can >>afford to get a captive audience by forcing them away from the sound and >>fury of the rest of E3. >If that was their strategy I hope they found it to be successful. I >personally thought that was the beauty of these conventions, being >able to see all the companies under one roof looking and comparing >each companies products. >>> 3. Papyrus demoed SODA but NOT Grand Prix Legends. That leads me to >>> believe that SODA will be the last game Papyrus releases. It was too >>> close to done to not release it. You know they have at least an alpha >>> version of Grand Prix Legends to demo if they wanted to. >>Yeah, everyone KNOWS that there's an alpha version of GPL to demo. Hell, >>they're probably just going to sit on it for a few years until the >>technology is totally outdated. By the way, all those same people know >>what's in Area 51. >If there isnt an alpha version of GPL then there isnt but from my >understanding they didnt preview NROS which is supposed to start in >late July. Is there not an alpha for that one either? BTW I think >that Elvis and YMenard are in Area 51, but please dont tell anyone I >know. >>> 4. Ed Martin left Papyrus, why would a guy who put everything into >>> NROS leave before it started? I mean this is the kind of project that >>> could be your meal ticket for years to come. I bet Ed still reads >>> this newsgroup and would love to reply but I am sure he signed a legal >>> agreement when he left Sierra. Who has Papyrus officially replaced Ed >>> with? >>I'm sure you know the answer, since you claim to have been following the >>Papy news closely. I find it strange that you, someone that I've never >>heard of, is "sure" about what legal agreements exist between Papyrus >>and former employees. I certainly didn't see you cc'd on any of the exit >>paperwork when I left. >I dont know the answer that is why I posed a rhetorical question. I >wish Ed were still with Papyrus. I thought he was doing an good job. >I am sorry you have never heard of me, I didnt know that was a >requisite to either read or post in a Usenet newsgroup. The use of >the word sure on my part was an error and I retract that, but I still >find it odd that a guy who posted in here on a regular basis doesnt >post at all anymore. I enjoyed his posts and his candor. >>> 5. Who is really left from the original Papyrus? I dont know maybe >>> someone in ras knows. >>Most of the heavy hitters: read the manuals and credits for IndyCar, >>NASCAR1, ICR2, and N2. Pretty much everyone who makes Papyrus games >>great is still there. >>Any healthy company has some non-zero level of employee turnover. It's >>unavoidable. Another company came in and made me an offer that was in my >>best interest. I miss Papyrus, but I still know I did the right thing by >>taking the other opportunity; can't blame Papy for that one. Rick Genter >>left to start his own game company; can anyone blame Papyrus for that? >>As much as you'd like to think otherwise, there is life outside of >>Papyrus, and sometimes employees of any company will leave to find >>another pasture. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's following their >>dream, sometimes it's following their spouse,sometimes it's just for a >>change of pace. >I am also familiar with that also, I too have left companies for >better opportunities. If that was the case with all these people then >good for them. I am sorry that you didnt like my post, but those were >just my opinions. I am not an expert, nor did I claim to be. I do >however read ras every day and wanted to offer my opinions for general >discussion. I didnt want to burn down Nasnet or lead ras. I have >enjoyed Papyrus games and hope they continue to lead the auto >simulation world, but as a consumer I also appreciate honest, candid >information. Thanks for you response and best wishes >Greg Alexander >>Papy's not going anywhere as far I can tell, *** theories aside. >>---Jim

: I agree to a degree. For example look at Dynamix when Sierra purchased it. : They had an excellent game FPS: Football and Football Pro and FPS: Baseball. : But through the years the product line from Dyanmix has degraded over the years : (Football 96, 97, etc.) and can only be attributed to the fact that the : original members of Dynamix are gone and replaced with people who have much : less expertise in the area than the original guys. Same thing is happening to : Papyrus. Original employees are leaving and being replaced with people with : less expertise in racing sims. Through the years you'll probably see less : quality products released from Papyrus. It's good to hear from someone who is on the inside and "knows" exactly what is going on in Sierra/Dynamix/Papyrus, NOT! Dynamix made a dramatic change in their direction because this was were they wanted to go even before Sierra bought them out. They were just able to take that direction due to the backing of Sierra and the added funds and resources. Was this the right direction? You would leave us to believe that not a single person ever left Papyrus before Sierra purchased them. Though I don't have the facts, I find this a hard cookie to swallow. The only company that I know of where no one ever left of their own accord is the Mafia. <g> -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Will Papyrus/Sierra make a patch to allow internet team play for ICR2 (I guess Nascar2 has a patch that will allow this)? Is Sierra still supporting additions to this program? Ok, but I hope you will remember those of us with not the latest hardware (Pentium 90 not MMX 16MB ram).

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> Adam Levesque > General Manager - Papyrus > >>> 1. EA has acquired exclusive Nascar license. I am not sure if if

an

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> >>> exclusive licensing but there seemed to be a heavy emphasis on it in > >>> the press releases at both EA and Nascar. EA made a Nascar game > >>> before for the playstation and there wasnt such a big deal made about > >>> it, this announcement seemed bigger. > >>EA's license is not exclusive. To my knowledge (and I would probably > >>know), EA has not previously made a NASCAR game for the PSX. > >I stated earlier that I was not sure if there was an exclusive > >license, you say there isnt one which is fine with me. I am hoping > >that Papyrus would continue to make racing sims. I just hope the same > >thing that happened with Indycar didnt happen with Nascar. > >>> 2. Papyrus went to E3 but set up five blocks away from the

convention > >>> center. That seems to be the action of a company who is trying to > >>> keep a very low profile which seems odd for a company who is > >>> supposedly partnering with Nascar next month to start NROS. > >>CUC Software made that decision, presumably because they know they can > >>afford to get a captive audience by forcing them away from the sound and

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> >>fury of the rest of E3. > >If that was their strategy I hope they found it to be successful. I > >personally thought that was the beauty of these conventions, being > >able to see all the companies under one roof looking and comparing > >each companies products. > >>> 3. Papyrus demoed SODA but NOT Grand Prix Legends. That leads me to > >>> believe that SODA will be the last game Papyrus releases. It was too > >>> close to done to not release it. You know they have at least an

alpha > >>> version of Grand Prix Legends to demo if they wanted to. > >>Yeah, everyone KNOWS that there's an alpha version of GPL to demo. Hell,

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> >>they're probably just going to sit on it for a few years until the > >>technology is totally outdated. By the way, all those same people know > >>what's in Area 51. > >If there isnt an alpha version of GPL then there isnt but from my > >understanding they didnt preview NROS which is supposed to start in > >late July. Is there not an alpha for that one either? BTW I think > >that Elvis and YMenard are in Area 51, but please dont tell anyone I > >know. > >>> 4. Ed Martin left Papyrus, why would a guy who put everything into > >>> NROS leave before it started? I mean this is the kind of project

that > >>> could be your meal ticket for years to come. I bet Ed still reads > >>> this newsgroup and would love to reply but I am sure he signed a legal > >>> agreement when he left Sierra. Who has Papyrus officially replaced Ed > >>> with? > >>I'm sure you know the answer, since you claim to have been following the > >>Papy news closely. I find it strange that you, someone that I've never > >>heard of, is "sure" about what legal agreements exist between Papyrus > >>and former employees. I certainly didn't see you cc'd on any of the exit

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> >>paperwork when I left. > >I dont know the answer that is why I posed a rhetorical question. I > >wish Ed were still with Papyrus. I thought he was doing an good job. > >I am sorry you have never heard of me, I didnt know that was a > >requisite to either read or post in a Usenet newsgroup. The use of > >the word sure on my part was an error and I retract that, but I still > >find it odd that a guy who posted in here on a regular basis doesnt > >post at all anymore. I enjoyed his posts and his candor. > >>> 5. Who is really left from the original Papyrus? I dont know maybe > >>> someone in ras knows. > >>Most of the heavy hitters: read the manuals and credits for IndyCar, > >>NASCAR1, ICR2, and N2. Pretty much everyone who makes Papyrus games > >>great is still there. > >>Any healthy company has some non-zero level of employee turnover. It's > >>unavoidable. Another company came in and made me an offer that was in

my > >>best interest. I miss Papyrus, but I still know I did the right thing by > >>taking the other opportunity; can't blame Papy for that one. Rick Genter

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> >>left to start his own game company; can anyone blame Papyrus for that? > >>As much as you'd like to think otherwise, there is life outside of > >>Papyrus, and sometimes employees of any company will leave to find > >>another pasture. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's following their > >>dream, sometimes it's following their spouse,sometimes it's just for a > >>change of pace. > >I am also familiar with that also, I too have left companies for > >better opportunities. If that was the case with all these people then > >good for them. I am sorry that you didnt like my post, but those were > >just my opinions. I am not an expert, nor did I claim to be. I do > >however read ras every day and wanted to offer my opinions for general > >discussion. I didnt want to burn down Nasnet or lead ras. I have > >enjoyed Papyrus games and hope they continue to lead the auto > >simulation world, but as a consumer I also appreciate honest, candid > >information. Thanks for you response and best wishes > >Greg Alexander > >>Papy's not going anywhere as far I can tell, *** theories aside. > >>---Jim

Adam -- Thanks for the info (and isn't it a bizarre thread?), but there's one issue you didn't address: what's the situation with NROS? Just curious... Bart Brown

I believe that EA developing a Nascar game will only help the consumer. It means Papyrus and EA will each be trying to one up the other ones game. How good do you think NFL or NHL games would be if only one developer made the games.

> I believe that EA developing a Nascar game will only help the consumer. > It means Papyrus and EA will each be trying to one up the other ones > game. How good do you think NFL or NHL games would be if only one > developer made the games. GOOD POINT!!!!!!

> I agree completely. Right now, all we know is that NASNET is ending. But > really, i think its safe to papy is to. Hopefully, with these crappy > games they should... Joe, If you hate NASCAR so much (along with everything else you hate), why not play games you do? There's POD, RAC Rally, NFSII, MTM, just to name a few. If these don't give you some reason for living besides tearing others down, there's always knitting, finger-painting and commemorative plate collecting, just to name a few other facets of life you could explore. God Bless, Steve

Umm... Heh.. ok They where late with the check to the show promoters... it happens <grin> Yes, Papyrus had him sign a non-competitive agreement, slapped ed with a wet noodle and took his keyboard away. Everyone's gone now... (except the janitor) It was a evil plot, JFK knew about this and that's why the CIA killed him..... Greg, Do you subscibe to the "National Enquirer" by chance?

What are you on?

By the time the next round of NASCAR products (from EA and Papyrus) come out, the computer you describe will be worth about $150-$200. Competition may bring a lot of things to bear on the NASCAR market, but it won't make games that play well on $150 computers. Nothing that happens between now and then will make your computer any faster. Programs like N2 are already fully occupying your system; in order to add new features, better graphics, more rules, and more realistic AI, the program has to get bigger, and it needs more CPU. 90 MHz P5s are going to be left out in the cold, probably by both EA and Papyrus (as well as every other real-time 3D game company). ---Jim "Typing this on a P5-90" Sokoloff

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>>> I bet Ed still reads >>> this newsgroup and would love to reply but I am sure he signed a legal >>> agreement when he left Sierra. Who has Papyrus officially replaced Ed >>> with? >>I'm sure you know the answer, since you claim to have been following the >>Papy news closely. I find it strange that you, someone that I've never >>heard of, is "sure" about what legal agreements exist between Papyrus >>and former employees. I certainly didn't see you cc'd on any of the exit >>paperwork when I left. >I dont know the answer that is why I posed a rhetorical question. I >wish Ed were still with Papyrus. I thought he was doing an good job. >I am sorry you have never heard of me, I didnt know that was a >requisite to either read or post in a Usenet newsgroup.

It's not, but if you stated something that you are "sure" of, and I was just trying to go through all the possibilities in my head of how exactly you could know the terms between Sierra and departed employees. I couldn't come up with anyway that you could be "sure", and I pointed that out. Ed has gone on to work on something else. He probably doesn't have time to continue following ras because he's not working on auto sims anymore. Rick Genter doesn't follow the group closely anymore for the same reason; I follow it somewhat, because I live and breath motorsports, and I find it damned entertaining to read the latest off-the-wall *** theories. (It's like a free subscription to the auto racing version of the Weekly World News.) ---Jim

<SNIP>

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> Ed has gone on to work on something else. He probably doesn't have > time to continue following ras because he's not working on auto sims > anymore. Rick Genter doesn't follow the group closely anymore for the > same reason; I follow it somewhat, because I live and breath > motorsports, and I find it damned entertaining to read the latest > off-the-wall *** theories. (It's like a free subscription to > the auto racing version of the Weekly World News.) > ---Jim

Hmmmm maybe time for a RASC- REC.AUTOS.SIMULATORS.CONSPIRACIES ;o) Alan [link lost in import: /~akh/simshop.html]

whatever

<snip> : products? ABSOLUTELY NOT. We are committed to that license and : improving our NASCAR games in the future (we are also committed to : expanding our product line into other racing series, and by the way, : we have not given up on CART). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Adam, can you elaborate a bit? :) Chuck : Adam Levesque : General Manager - Papyrus

> ...Original employees are leaving and being replaced with people with > less expertise in racing sims. Through the years you'll probably see less > quality products released from Papyrus. Ok, I'll bite. Howzabout you give me a list of the "original" employees that have left Papyrus? Do you even know who they are? Randy

whatever. where did u get that from? your head? >> ...Original employees are leaving and being replaced with people with >> less expertise in racing sims. Through the years you'll probably see less >> quality products released from Papyrus.