Psygnosisi F1 PC

How does Psygnosis F1 PC compare with GP2 and Power F1? Andr.

> How does Psygnosis F1 PC compare with GP2 and Power F1? > Andr. It doesnt. GP2 blows away F1 as a sim and Power F1 blows away F1 as an arcade game (and yeah, got a 3dfx card too). To me, any racing game without a***pit (like F1) is not worth buying. Rich

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> > How does Psygnosis F1 PC compare with GP2 and Power F1? > > Andr. > It doesnt. GP2 blows away F1 as a sim and Power F1 blows > away F1 as an arcade game (and yeah, got a 3dfx card too). > To me, any racing game without a***pit (like F1) is not > worth buying. > Rich

Isn't it funny, despite its flaws and all the ***ing about the game in general, GP2 still kicks every other sim's butt. 3D hardware support, updated/ accurate tracks and cars, and a couple other tweaks (maybe better multiplay and redo***pit view?), and you'd have THE ultimate F1 sim. What a potential cash cow Mr. Crammond sits on. I wish he'd do something about it - we are finally starting to get hardware that will make this game fly. Bob

I'm a bit surprised to hear the Murray Walker commentary as a "plus", it was nice for a while but I get thoroughly hacked off with him thinking that I've "completely lost it" or "He's spun!" every time I get a bit sideways through a turn. Personally I'd far prefer to hear the pits talking to me, telling me gaps, lap times, fuel strategy, tire wear of team-mate etc etc. That would constitute a far better use of the sound I think. -- Cheers! John (SRN-Europe) (Remove "NOSPAM" from address before replying...)

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>> How does Psygnosis F1 PC compare with GP2 and Power F1? >> Andr. >It doesnt. GP2 blows away F1 as a sim and Power F1 blows >away F1 as an arcade game (and yeah, got a 3dfx card too). >To me, any racing game without a***pit (like F1) is not >worth buying.

On the flip side, the tracks are dead-on in F1 (something GP2 can't claim), F1 has banking (something GP2 can't claim) and 3D hardware support, which neither GP2 or Power F1 can claim. I have the Playstation version of Formula One and Gp2 and Power F1 on my Pentium-133. I also have a rendition board. GP2: Best overall sim Best setup options Best computer car AI Cons: Slow graphics - still not a computer that can run it at full graphics decently No weather! No in-car adjustments (sway bars & brake bias namely) Crappy modem play Less than stellar track reproduction No camber F1: Best track renditions fastest graphics with 3D acceleration Murray Walker commentary Banking fully implemented FULL Rain effects! Cons: Less horsepower than real F1 cars stupid damage model lame AI no***pit view Power F1: Almost as good on the track renditions as F1 Cool menus & setup options Best outside sound effects (and you can hear other cars!) Weather of sorts.. pretty graphics Cons: Slowest of the bunch Limited detail tuning so you're stuck with a ***frame rate in hi res Awful steering wheel feedback. Be prepared to crank the wheel a LOT, even with the joyfix they distribute Product most in need of 3D acceleration Can't figure out whether it wants to be a sim or an arcade game. Randy

I think its crap. Its got a bad driving model, and horrible sound. Dont think bout playing it unless you have a 3dfx, rendition or a card that supports direct 3d. No 2d cards, and you must have atleast 4mb ram on your card.

says... Murray Walker commentary in a game is a pro?

>Murray Walker commentary in a game is a pro? Yes. Having him say "he's up/down after the first split" is great, especially considering where some of the scoring sections are on the track! Randy

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>> Murray Walker commentary >I'm a bit surprised to hear the Murray Walker commentary as a "plus", it >was nice for a while but I get thoroughly hacked off with him thinking that >I've "completely lost it" or "He's spun!" every time I get a bit sideways >through a turn. >Personally I'd far prefer to hear the pits talking to me, telling me gaps, >lap times, fuel strategy, tire wear of team-mate etc etc. That would >constitute a far better use of the sound I think.

Agreed. However, my point was that, at least in the Playstation version, when the split time flashes up I might be in the middle of the turn or otherwise cannot lock down at at my split. During qualifying, Murray tells me "He's up after the first split" and during the race "the gap is decreasing". I can focus on the racing and listen to Murray's queues for whether I'm closing the gap to the car in front of me and whether or not my split times are better or worse. Randy

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> >> How does Psygnosis F1 PC compare with GP2 and Power F1? > >> Andr. > >It doesnt. GP2 blows away F1 as a sim and Power F1 blows > >away F1 as an arcade game (and yeah, got a 3dfx card too). > >To me, any racing game without a***pit (like F1) is not > >worth buying. > On the flip side, the tracks are dead-on in F1 (something GP2 can't > claim), F1 has banking (something GP2 can't claim) and 3D hardware > support, which neither GP2 or Power F1 can claim. I have the > Playstation version of Formula One and Gp2 and Power F1 on my > Pentium-133. I also have a rendition board. > GP2: Best overall sim > Best setup options > Best computer car AI > Cons: Slow graphics - still not a computer that can run it at full > graphics decently > No weather! > No in-car adjustments (sway bars & brake bias namely) > Crappy modem play > Less than stellar track reproduction > No camber > F1: Best track renditions > fastest graphics with 3D acceleration > Murray Walker commentary > Banking fully implemented > FULL Rain effects! > Cons: Less horsepower than real F1 cars > stupid damage model > lame AI > no***pit view > Power F1: Almost as good on the track renditions as F1 > Cool menus & setup options > Best outside sound effects (and you can hear > other cars!) > Weather of sorts.. > pretty graphics > Cons: Slowest of the bunch > Limited detail tuning so you're stuck with a ***frame > rate in hi res > Awful steering wheel feedback. Be prepared to crank the > wheel a LOT, even with the joyfix they distribute > Product most in need of 3D acceleration > Can't figure out whether it wants to be a sim or an > arcade game. > Randy

I have an AMD K6 MMX 200 with Matrox Mystique 4 MB card It runs GP2 in 25,6 frames with everything on in SVGA, except for Monaco, the game flies.

Does F1 have a***pit view or not? Without the***pit view the pros & cons are pointless. IMHO :-) Since you say that F1 does not have a cokpit view it seems to be a real loser. Thanks. Less hassle for me. -- Header address intentionaly scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>I have an AMD K6 MMX 200 with Matrox Mystique 4 MB card >It runs GP2 in 25,6 frames with everything on in SVGA, >except for Monaco, the game flies. Well, you certainly have a state of the art machine. Upgrading to a P200+MMX+motherboard would set me back $750 or so, and I don't know how much of a difference the VESA modes of your Mystique compared to my Rendition board. I'm certainly not willing to give up the Rendition board because of IndyCar II and NASCAR 2, but I'd love to know how well a P200MMX would run with the Rendition board. Thanks for letting me know that there is hope out there someday when I get a bleeding edge computer. Still, for most people out there who are running anything from P90's to P166's, Gp2's performance isn't great. Randy

>Does F1 have a***pit view or not? Without the***pit view the pros & cons are >pointless. It has a view which I would say is positioned about a foot higher than the driver, looking over the wings and the tires. You don't get to see any***pit instrumentation or anything, but you do get to see the track ahead, your front wings and nose, and you tires turning spinning, gathering ***when you go off the road etc. Even though I am in agreement with those who criticize this game as a result of a lack of a "true"***pit view I really think people make more of a big deal out of it than it really is. For all intents and purposes, your view is pretty much the same, and you don't really notice its absence when you're racing -- you're simply too busy. Well, if you're going to judge the entire game by that I guess you have to do what you have to do. As I said, the fact that you get a camera view from approximately where the driver would be, albeit slightly higher, its not a big deal. I certainly wouldn't trash the game on that alone, but then I'm not you. Randy

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> >I have an AMD K6 MMX 200 with Matrox Mystique 4 MB card > >It runs GP2 in 25,6 frames with everything on in SVGA, > >except for Monaco, the game flies. > Well, you certainly have a state of the art machine. Upgrading to a > P200+MMX+motherboard would set me back $750 or so, and I don't know > how much of a difference the VESA modes of your Mystique compared to > my Rendition board. I'm certainly not willing to give up the > Rendition board because of IndyCar II and NASCAR 2, but I'd love to > know how well a P200MMX would run with the Rendition board. > Thanks for letting me know that there is hope out there someday when I > get a bleeding edge computer. Still, for most people out there who > are running anything from P90's to P166's, Gp2's performance isn't > great. > Randy

On another note - has Formula 1 been released in the US? There was a reference to Formula 1 on Avault that put the release this week. However, the reference is no longer there. Does this mean the game has been released or that it has vanished - not unlike Moto Racer? BTW, I run GPII on a Dell P200 with 32 mb of SDRAM and a Matrox Millennium 4 mb WRAM and it really does scream - with only a couple textures turned off. N2 looks better but GPII has a better overall driving experience, IMHO. T2's rule... But I digress. If someone knows about the release of Formula 1, please let us know, OK? :) Cordially, Buddha

Is there a Psygnosis F1 demo out yet ??? if so, where can I download it ? ta Rob

How do you know. The game doesn't get released until June 13 > I think its crap. Its got a bad driving model, and horrible sound. Dont > think bout playing it unless you have a 3dfx, rendition or a card that > supports direct 3d. No 2d cards, and you must have atleast 4mb ram on your

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> card. > > How does Psygnosis F1 PC compare with GP2 and Power F1? > > Andr.

On Mon, 02 Jun 1997 17:51:39 -0400, Bob Chalfin

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>Isn't it funny, despite its flaws and all the ***ing about the game in >general, GP2 still kicks every other sim's butt. 3D hardware support, >updated/ accurate tracks and cars, and a couple other tweaks (maybe >better multiplay and redo***pit view?), and you'd have THE ultimate F1 >sim. What a potential cash cow Mr. Crammond sits on. I wish he'd do >something about it - we are finally starting to get hardware that will >make this game fly.

Microprose are working on a sequel to GP2, but they are keeping it secret at this time cause they have no idea when the new game can possibly be released. It will include 3D acceleration, network play and other things, but it could be a long time until we get our hands on it. And maybe it'll only run on P2 300Mhz with all but sky... A. Renault

>How do you know. The game doesn't get released until June 13 I believe it has been available in Europe for some time.

>And its crap, avoid !!! >Buy Grand Prix 2 instead. Obviously anyone who bought Psygnosis F1 has a 3d card, so the outdated GP2 is useless to them. GP2 is intolerably slow in 640x480 (even on a P200 with several details off) and intolerably ugly in 320x200. If there was ever a game DYING for 3d card support it's GP2. Joe

>Obviously anyone who bought Psygnosis F1 has a 3d card, so the >outdated GP2 is useless to them. What is clear is that if you're looking for a sim GP2 is several worlds ahead of Psygnosis F1, and what's more it is very playable on a P-200. It is even playable on anything down to a P133 in SVGA and a P-90 in VGA. Cheers! John

Don't buy either one of them .Wait for Starting Grid to come out.

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> >And its crap, avoid !!! > >Buy Grand Prix 2 instead. > Obviously anyone who bought Psygnosis F1 has a 3d card, so the > outdated GP2 is useless to them. GP2 is intolerably slow in 640x480 > (even on a P200 with several details off) and intolerably ugly in > 320x200. If there was ever a game DYING for 3d card support it's GP2. > Joe

>>Obviously anyone who bought Psygnosis F1 has a 3d card, so the >>outdated GP2 is useless to them. >What is clear is that if you're looking for a sim GP2 is several >worlds ahead of Psygnosis F1, and what's more it is very playable on a >P-200. It is even playable on anything down to a P133 in SVGA and a >P-90 in VGA. In my opinion it is not "playable" on any of those systems unless you use VGA. IMO using SVGA causes such a tremendous slowdown in frame-rate it becomes basically undriveable - partly becuase it *is* a realistic sim you NEED a high frame-rate to be able to control the car properly (i.e., assuming steering assistance and junk like that is turned off). And yes, I've run it on both a P133 and P200. Joe

>In my opinion it is not "playable" on any of those systems unless you >use VGA. IMO using SVGA causes such a tremendous slowdown in >frame-rate it becomes basically undriveable - partly becuase it *is* a >realistic sim you NEED a high frame-rate to be able to control the car >properly (i.e., assuming steering assistance and junk like that is >turned off). And yes, I've run it on both a P133 and P200. Undrivable? Did you know that the winner of the Microprose competition drove his sub 1:20s lap of Monza on a 486-66? What's more he also won the league race with a stunning race time against top-class competition using the same system. Perhaps you can't drive it and feel that it is not playable, but you are in a minority. Cheers! John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John S. Wallace - Sim Racing News ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "F*&* he's quick!" - Prost's comment on Senna ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am running GP2 on an AMD K6 200 w/64meg ram and ATI 3Dxpression+pc2tv 3d accelerator, and I can run w/full detail SVGA and only 80-90%CPU utilization on all tracks except Monaco. I think that if you got a new MMX233 or AMD233, it would do the trick. The AI in GP2 is far superior to competitors so far. I am looking forward to seeing Psygnosis F1, I thought that the Sony PS version was pretty cool.

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> >>Obviously anyone who bought Psygnosis F1 has a 3d card, so the > >>outdated GP2 is useless to them. > >What is clear is that if you're looking for a sim GP2 is several > >worlds ahead of Psygnosis F1, and what's more it is very playable on a > >P-200. It is even playable on anything down to a P133 in SVGA and a > >P-90 in VGA. > In my opinion it is not "playable" on any of those systems unless you > use VGA. IMO using SVGA causes such a tremendous slowdown in > frame-rate it becomes basically undriveable - partly becuase it *is* a > realistic sim you NEED a high frame-rate to be able to control the car > properly (i.e., assuming steering assistance and junk like that is > turned off). And yes, I've run it on both a P133 and P200. > Joe

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>>>Obviously anyone who bought Psygnosis F1 has a 3d card, so the >>>outdated GP2 is useless to them. >>What is clear is that if you're looking for a sim GP2 is several >>worlds ahead of Psygnosis F1, and what's more it is very playable on a >>P-200. It is even playable on anything down to a P133 in SVGA and a >>P-90 in VGA. >In my opinion it is not "playable" on any of those systems unless you >use VGA. IMO using SVGA causes such a tremendous slowdown in >frame-rate it becomes basically undriveable - partly becuase it *is* a >realistic sim you NEED a high frame-rate to be able to control the car >properly (i.e., assuming steering assistance and junk like that is >turned off). And yes, I've run it on both a P133 and P200. >Joe

I've been playing GP2 SVGA on a P166 with 32Meg RAM Matrox Mill since it came out, and after having taken a look at Psygnosis F1 on a P166 Monster3d I would say the only edge it has on GP2 are the graphics and track realism. The control and driving model on F1 just didn't feel right, going into the corners I didn't need to brake since when you let off the accelerator the car slows down NOTICEABLY and does not keep coasting like it should. The opponent AI was very weak and would repeatedly slam into me even though I had the line for a corner when we were fighting for position, and that really frustrated me after being used to the smarter AI of GP2 and Nascar2. When I returned to GP2 to compare how well it holds up to F1 and have to say that it holds up quite well at for me. I really love the driving model, curbs, smart opponents in GP2, and actually it runs quite well for me in SVGA with no sky and all the mirror details turned off except smoke, which after all is pretty good since Psygnosis F1 doesn't even _have_ mirrors. At those settings in SVGA, I never go above 100% processor occupancy except if I am at Monaco which I don't race there very often anyhow. Personally I would use Psygnosis F1 to drive around and familiarize myself with an F1 circuit before watching that F1 race on TV that weekend, since it's tracks are very realistically done and beautiful, but other than that I doubt I would play it much since the AI problems would probably really drive me nuts. As a 3dfx Voodoo owner, I would LOVE to have a 3dfx version of GP2, but I think it is too harsh to say that GP2 is unplayable on your P200, you just need to tweak the graphics option a bit more I think, and yes, I am also spoiled by the fast framerates we Voodoo owners come to expect and wish GP2 could run at 30+ FPS. For Sim fans thinking about buying Formula1, I would say buy it at place where you can return it if you don't like it, since F1 is, as advertised more of an Arcade Racer than a diehard Racing Sim and you may find that the pretty graphics and realistic tracks just aren't enough to make this a keeper. I am glad I was able to get a look at this at a friend's house after all the hoopla about it and the long delay for it's release here in North America, but sadly it's just not my type of game. I will keep playing GP2 to satisfy my F1 simulation needs, and hope Microprose gets it's head out of its rear cavity and gives us a 3dfx version with the promised Wet Weather effects and networking. Cheers. --John (fan of GP2, ICR2, N2, NFS, Stunts etc.) -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

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> >In my opinion it is not "playable" on any of those systems unless you > >use VGA. IMO using SVGA causes such a tremendous slowdown in > >frame-rate it becomes basically undriveable - partly becuase it *is* a > >realistic sim you NEED a high frame-rate to be able to control the car > >properly (i.e., assuming steering assistance and junk like that is > >turned off). And yes, I've run it on both a P133 and P200. > Undrivable? > Did you know that the winner of the Microprose competition drove his > sub 1:20s lap of Monza on a 486-66? What's more he also won the league > race with a stunning race time against top-class competition using the > same system. > Perhaps you can't drive it and feel that it is not playable, but you > are in a minority. > Cheers! > John > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John S. Wallace - Sim Racing News ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "F*&* he's quick!" - Prost's comment on Senna > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It may be playable, but the _majority_ thinks the frame rate (in SVGA with most, but not all, details ON) sucks in GP2 (including me with my Pent Pro 200) and explains why the majority prays that a 3dfx version of GP2 becomes available. While Power F1 doesnt hold a candle to the overall realism and AI of GP2, being able play Power F1 at 30 fps in SVGA (with its superior track graphics IMO), even without 3dfx support, gave me such a great sensation of racing speed that I took GP2 off my HD. But I still have World Circuit on my HD too :)

On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 03:52:03 -0700, Richard Pick Okay, if you insist we can get pedantic... :-) Possibly, but I never stated the frame-rate was excellent, merely that it was playable. So the majoity of sim-racers own a 3dFX? I doubt it. I would estimate the majority would like an improved frame-rate, and while you and I would like a 3dFX port it probably isn't specifically 3dFX the majority want. The rumours are that 3D support will be coded into either GP3 or an update, should either of them have any basis in reality, but it will doubtless be a LONG time before we see either. Cheers! John

>I am running GP2 on an AMD K6 200 w/64meg ram and ATI 3Dxpression+pc2tv >3d accelerator, and I can run w/full detail SVGA and only 80-90%CPU >utilization on all tracks except Monaco. I think that if you got a new >MMX233 or AMD233, it would do the trick. I don't think so. I bought a Monster 3dfx, and for game that support it it has increased the performance of my P200 by at least 3-4 times - it's the software equivalent of a P800. GP2 isn't even CLOSE to good performance on a P200, so bumping up the power by 10-15% is not going to make a significant difference (GP2 doesn't use MMX by the way). Joe

Well that's the problem - I've seen decent graphics+performance and won't go back. For me GP2 is not playable by tweaking the graphics. I either end up with UGLY 320x200 or IGLY UNTEXTURED 640x480. YMMV, but to me that's unplayable. I probably will give F1 a miss, it doesn't sound very good. I gues 3dfx owners will have to wait another year or so for a driving sim (these driving sim developers must have an aversion to money or something - everyone else on the planet is panicking to get their 3d patches out so they can cash in). Joe

>The rumours are that 3D support will be coded into either GP3 or an >update, should either of them have any basis in reality, but it will >doubtless be a LONG time before we see either. So why are these sim developers so technologically outdated? Every other software company on the planet is burning the midnight oil to get their 3d card patches out. That "3d card owners are the minority" nonsense might have flown 6 months ago, but today it's just absurd - ask any game developer support rep what the number one request is they are getting: 3d card support. Joe

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>>As a 3dfx Voodoo owner, I would LOVE to have a 3dfx version of GP2, >>but I think it is too harsh to say that GP2 is unplayable on your >>P200, you just need to tweak the graphics option a bit more I think, and yes, >>I am also spoiled by the fast framerates we Voodoo owners come to expect >>and wish GP2 could run at 30+ FPS. >Well that's the problem - I've seen decent graphics+performance and >won't go back. For me GP2 is not playable by tweaking the graphics. I >either end up with UGLY 320x200 or IGLY UNTEXTURED 640x480. YMMV, but >to me that's unplayable. >I probably will give F1 a miss, it doesn't sound very good. I gues >3dfx owners will have to wait another year or so for a driving sim >(these driving sim developers must have an aversion to money or >something - everyone else on the planet is panicking to get their 3d >patches out so they can cash in). >Joe

Yes, probably it won't be until Papyrus comes out with "Formula1 Legends" that we will have a REAL sim that is 3dfx/D3D accelerated. I would love to see a 3dfx vesrion of ICR2 and Nascar2, but I doubt Sierra will give us one since that would eliminate the only reason left to purchase Sierra's own slower 3D card, and as for GP2 I doubt if we'll see any 3D support before F1GP4 or F1GP3 if it comes out 2 years from now ;-) I agree with you heartily on puzzlement as to why these sim developers don't want our 3Dfx money, hell I am just waiting for some more 3dfx titles to rush to the software store, looks like Flying Corps patch might be close in which case I will go out and buy it, and looking at July's Computer *** World, 3dfx Falcon 4.0 looks to be amazing, can't wait. Still I am REALLY looking forward to Papyrus F1 Legends but it better have 3dfx or D3D support if they want my money. Cheers. --John -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

>So why are these sim developers so technologically outdated? Every >other software company on the planet is burning the midnight oil to >get their 3d card patches out. That "3d card owners are the minority" >nonsense might have flown 6 months ago, but today it's just absurd - >ask any game developer support rep what the number one request is they >are getting: 3d card support. Too true, and having seen what Papyrus did with Indycar2 I can only dream of what GP2 could, and should, have been. However GP2 was already designed as a VGA game and hastily rehashed into SVGA to compete with ICR2, a change to 3D support would have probably kicked the game into touch altogether. Geoff's routine's for modem, graphics etc seem to be extremely unique to him, and aren't very modular or able to take advantage of improved hardware. F1GP was the same. He _really_ needs to go and work for Papyrus, and possibly even Sierra should buy up Bizarre Creations as well (not a crazy thought....) to take advantage of their tracks, graphical knowledge and licenses. Give me GP2's physics and AI with Papyrus modularity, Bizarre Creations tracks and graphics all with 3dFX support and I might just be happy. Okay I'd still want more, but it would be a good start. How about if everyone here chipped in their savings every week and WE can buy Papyrus from Sierra and employ GC? The greatest "Dream Team" since Prost and Senna paired up in the '88 Mclaren Honda turbo. Cheers! John

>How about if everyone here chipped in their savings every week and WE >can buy Papyrus from Sierra and employ GC? The greatest "Dream Team" >since Prost and Senna paired up in the '88 Mclaren Honda turbo. If we could raise the money it would probably be more practical to start up a new game company. You could do that for a few hundred grand, maybe a million. Buying Papyrus would cost significantly more than that. Joe

> How about if everyone here chipped in their savings every week and WE > can buy Papyrus from Sierra and employ GC? The greatest "Dream Team" > since Prost and Senna paired up in the '88 Mclaren Honda turbo. Count me in John. I'll put up $20,000 Canadian for a share. How much does a Papyrus cost? :) Can we just buy the "open wheel" side of the team...leave the fenders at Sierra? And Crammond can't be too expensive...his last effort rated a "needs improvement".... see Mr. McGinn's posts... ;) Cheers! -- Neil Yeatman Ajax, Ontario, CANADA My REAL email address is: ICQ# 1315725