FREE INDY TRACK FOR NASCAR 2

This should ease everyone's pain. You guys who have been crying about this being illegal please don't download it. (Fat chance). This is NOT the shareware track. http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6576/index.html

>This should ease everyone's pain. You guys who have been crying about this >being illegal please don't download it. (Fat chance). This is NOT the >shareware track. >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6576/index.html I'm going to have to excuse myself from this newsgroup while it is being used as a clearing house for copyrighted works. When there are blantant copyright violations, as I've seen here, I have to pass the information on to legal, and that just isn't a role I care to take. I'll check back in here in a few weeks. Cheers- Charlie Heath / Papyrus

Well, it is illegal what you are doing, and anyone from Papryus that read the message you posted can nail you for it.

I need help in deciding on a new video card. I want to increase the frame rates for N2, ICR2 and GP2, but the card still has to perform well for other apps. I currently have an ATI graphics Xpression but I'm not impressed with the speed, though it has been very stable. Also, I need to be able to support Win95 and a little OS2; I'd like 1024x768x64M under Win95. I know that the Rendition card does not support OS/2, but it should run in 640x480 which will be (I think) acceptable for what I need to do. It also appears that the Rendition card can not run 1024x768x64M either, only up to 65K colors at that resolution. I've seen read a lot of discussions regarding the Renditions performance running N2 (my main sim), but little on the Mystique's. How does the Mystique stack up? I'm leaning towards the Matrox card due to it's operating system support and color depth, but if I'll only be able to run N2 will all graphics on at 20fps (P166/32M), then I may sway the other way :) Any other considerations or comments? Thanks, Rob

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>>This should ease everyone's pain. You guys who have been crying about this >>being illegal please don't download it. (Fat chance). This is NOT the >>shareware track. >>http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6576/index.html >I'm going to have to excuse myself from this newsgroup while it is being >used as a clearing house for copyrighted works. When there are blantant >copyright violations, as I've seen here, I have to pass the information on >to legal, and that just isn't a role I care to take. >I'll check back in here in a few weeks. Cheers- >Charlie Heath / Papyrus

Not so fast Charlie. I admit I checked out his page, I couldn't believe someone would actually do it, and what I thought was indeed the case...he is bullshiting everyone.

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>I need help in deciding on a new video card. I want to increase >the frame rates for N2, ICR2 and GP2, but the card still has to perform >well for other apps. I currently have an ATI graphics Xpression but I'm >not impressed with the speed, though it has been very stable. >Also, I need to be able to support Win95 and a little OS2; I'd like >1024x768x64M under Win95. I know that the Rendition card does not >support OS/2, but it should run in 640x480 which will be (I think) >acceptable for what I need to do. It also appears that the Rendition >card can not run 1024x768x64M either, only up to 65K colors at that >resolution. > I've seen read a lot of discussions regarding the Renditions >performance running N2 (my main sim), but little on the Mystique's. >How does the Mystique stack up? I'm leaning towards the Matrox card >due to it's operating system support and color depth, but if I'll only >be able to run N2 will all graphics on at 20fps (P166/32M), then I may >sway the other way :) > Any other considerations or comments? >Thanks, >Rob

Buy an ABIT IT5H motherboard ($135), install your existing devices on the board and then overclock your P166 to 3x75 (225 mhz), 2.5x75 (187.5) or 2x83 . After that, hang on...................... See sysdoc.pair.com for more info.......

[URL deleted] This sort of reminds me of the bank robber who wrote a holdup note on the back of his own deposit slip. Or the guys who tried to break open an ATM by hooking a chain to the back bumper of their pickup truck, ripping the bumper off and leaving it at the scene of the crime with the license plate still attached. Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

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> I'm going to have to excuse myself from this newsgroup while it is being > used as a clearing house for copyrighted works. When there are blantant > copyright violations, as I've seen here, I have to pass the information on > to legal, and that just isn't a role I care to take. > I'll check back in here in a few weeks. Cheers- > Charlie Heath / Papyrus

Well, that's ONE way to flush the Papyrus lurkers out of the woodwork. Not a GOOD way, but it IS one way... Bart brown

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> >>This should ease everyone's pain. You guys who have been crying about this > >>being illegal please don't download it. (Fat chance). This is NOT the > >>shareware track. > >>http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6576/index.html > >I'm going to have to excuse myself from this newsgroup while it is being > >used as a clearing house for copyrighted works. When there are blantant > >copyright violations, as I've seen here, I have to pass the information on > >to legal, and that just isn't a role I care to take. > >I'll check back in here in a few weeks. Cheers- > >Charlie Heath / Papyrus > Not so fast Charlie. I admit I checked out his page, I couldn't > believe someone would actually do it, and what I thought was indeed > the case...he is bullshiting everyone.

You must of got there after 12 am .

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> I need help in deciding on a new video card. I want to increase > the frame rates for N2, ICR2 and GP2, but the card still has to perform > well for other apps. I currently have an ATI graphics Xpression but I'm > not impressed with the speed, though it has been very stable. > Also, I need to be able to support Win95 and a little OS2; I'd like > 1024x768x64M under Win95. I know that the Rendition card does not > support OS/2, but it should run in 640x480 which will be (I think) > acceptable for what I need to do. It also appears that the Rendition > card can not run 1024x768x64M either, only up to 65K colors at that > resolution. > I've seen read a lot of discussions regarding the Renditions > performance running N2 (my main sim), but little on the Mystique's. > How does the Mystique stack up? I'm leaning towards the Matrox card > due to it's operating system support and color depth, but if I'll only > be able to run N2 will all graphics on at 20fps (P166/32M), then I may > sway the other way :) > Any other considerations or comments? > Thanks, > Rob

I have the 4MB version of the Mystique and love it. I could see no difference in N2 between my old Diamond and my Mystique. I have a P166, 32mb ram, 2x CD. I have done the max install. In NFS2, which everyone seems to hate, I get pretty good frame rates. I do not have anything that will measure the frame rates. All I can say is go to some place like Best Buy and buy the card and try it. If it meets your expectations keep it, and if not return it and get your money back. I do not know about the 1024x768x64M, but it will do 16M colors at 1024x768. It gives options for 16, 24, and 32-bit color pallets. I do not know if that helps you or not. matt --

> I've seen read a lot of discussions regarding the Renditions You can get the specs on their supported resolutions at www.matrox.com. I love the 4MB Mystique I have. My P133, 32MB RAM runs N2 fine with all on but grass/asphalt on. ICR2 runs unbelievably quick with everything on. Some N2 tracks will let me get away with running all features on. Performance in DOS games is very fast. Win95 performance is good. If you want the Rendition graphics, though, go with the Rendition boards. However, the Mystique is a very solid card and I am happy with it.

Right on Charlie!!!! 'Bout time someone starts to shovel up the s**t in here, Regards, JR Black Hole Motorsports > >This should ease everyone's pain. You guys who have been crying about this

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> >being illegal please don't download it. (Fat chance). This is NOT the > >shareware track. > >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6576/index.html > I'm going to have to excuse myself from this newsgroup while it is being > used as a clearing house for copyrighted works. When there are blantant > copyright violations, as I've seen here, I have to pass the information

on > to legal, and that just isn't a role I care to take. > I'll check back in here in a few weeks. Cheers- > Charlie Heath / Papyrus

Simply speaking, forget the Mystique. Why? Well, due to the vagaries of GP2's graphics engine it is one of the few games where a new video card makes minimal difference (ironically the one game that really needs a kick in the pants too). That rules GP2 out of the equation. For NASCAR2 and ICR2 they Mystique falls _well_ short of what the Rendition can do, since the Rendition offers true 3D support for these games. Believe me, the 3D version of ICR2 is probably the smoothest and best looking sim available just now, better looking than Psygnosis' "F1" in my opinion. The Rendition cards gives smoooooooooth framerates on a P-166 thanks to the hardware acceleration, and is pretty good in Win95 and other SVGA games also. -- Cheers! John (SRN-Europe) (Remove "NOSPAM" from address before replying...)

Charlie has been posting here ever since Jim left Papyrus, so it has hardly been necessary to "flush him out". In my opinion, as he is an employee of a company that is having it's product hacked, slashed and bashed, he has taken the morally-correct step in declining to post to this NG. -- Bruce ---- "To be or not to be? Well, I'd rather 'be', if you don't mind!"

On Thu, 29 May 1997 09:25:09 GMT, "John Wallace"

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>> I need help in deciding on a new video card. I want to increase >> the frame rates for N2, ICR2 and GP2, but the card still has to perform >> well for other apps. >Simply speaking, forget the Mystique. >Why? Well, due to the vagaries of GP2's graphics engine it is one of the >few games where a new video card makes minimal difference (ironically the >one game that really needs a kick in the pants too). That rules GP2 out of >the equation. For NASCAR2 and ICR2 they Mystique falls _well_ short of what >the Rendition can do, since the Rendition offers true 3D support for these >games. Believe me, the 3D version of ICR2 is probably the smoothest and >best looking sim available just now, better looking than Psygnosis' "F1" in >my opinion. The Rendition cards gives smoooooooooth framerates on a P-166 >thanks to the hardware acceleration, and is pretty good in Win95 and other >SVGA games also.

What you are saying appears to be true _BUT_ it looks like the Mystique offers better performance under DirectX (especially Direct3D) than any other cards which would go a long way to explaining why a number of game developers have now declared it the development platform of choice. Now that there is a generic API which holds together quite well (Moto Racer being an example of this) I would expect more games to be coming out under Windows 95. If you want to look to the past and go for DOS games that are written or patched for a specific card then I would suggest a Rendition or other well supported card. If you want to look to the future of games running under Direct3D in Windows 95 then I would currently suggest the Mystique 4Mb which performs excellently. I'm not an expert (which may be all too apparent!!) but these are just my opinions. Cheers ..... Pete Intel Corporation (UK) Limited. The mail address in the header is deliberately wrong to stop spammers. I've had enough of that! ============================================================= "Imagine his suprise when he opened his eyes And I ran the lawnmower over his thighs" - Welcome to the Cheap Seats, The WonderStuff ============================================================= Disclaimer:- Views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of Intel Corp.

The Mystique's Direct3D performance is laughable at best due to its lack of filtering, one of the most highly used features of today's 3D accelerated games. What's the good of speeding up the framerate a bit if the graphic's quality is going to stay the same (especially when you can have both with another card)? As a 2D card the Mystique is a fine solution, but as far as 3D goes it simply doesn't cut it. Curent 3D games are mostly native ports for Rendition or 3Dfx, not the Mystique. The future of games seems to be Direct3D as well as OpenGL, neither of which the Mystique is good at. --

>This should ease everyone's pain. You guys who have been crying about this >being illegal please don't download it. (Fat chance). This is NOT the >shareware track. http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6576/index.html of course followed soon by your new domain at: [link lost in import: /.&wenttojail.com/moron.html] with an email to of: Yes folks, I see we have our top candidate for the thread of the month for may/june <G>. Here we go again. Ron *********************************************** ** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down ** *** Ron Riekens II *** **** Co-Owner - Driver **** **** Maui Sunshine Raceing/*** Photography **** *** NASS BGN Series #97 Pontiac *** * [link lost in import] * ***********************************************

Charlie, I would rather see you around here than have this newsgroup "used as a clearing house for copyrighted works" so maybe you could post an email address for the Papyrus legal department and some of the rest of us could take care of passing the information along. Regards, Brad

>What you are saying appears to be true _BUT_ it looks like the >Mystique offers better performance under DirectX (especially Direct3D) >than any other cards which would go a long way to explaining why a >number of game developers have now declared it the development >platform of choice. Really? Show us ONE game that has a special Mystique version for D3D or DirectX. You are dreaming. Are you saying there is a special Mystique option in MotoRacer? You are incorrect. Actually, you can't even select the FILTERED option in the D3D setup for MotoRacer. BTW, it looks REAL nice with that option. How about Bilinear filtered D3D games? No filtering on your Matrox.

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>If you want to look to the future of games >running under Direct3D in Windows 95 then I would currently suggest >the Mystique 4Mb which performs excellently. >I'm not an expert (which may be all too apparent!!) but these are just >my opinions. >Cheers ..... Pete >Intel Corporation (UK) Limited. >The mail address in the header is deliberately >wrong to stop spammers. I've had enough of that! >============================================================= >"Imagine his suprise when he opened his eyes >And I ran the lawnmower over his thighs" > - Welcome to the Cheap Seats, The WonderStuff >============================================================= >Disclaimer:- Views expressed are those of the author and not > necessarily those of Intel Corp.

Thanks for your highly important 13 line .sig. Now, if you feel that the Rendition or the Voodoo are not the MUCH better longer term solutions, then you are mistaken. I have a Matrox Millenium and Monster 3D(Voodoo). The D3D and native support for the M3D are EXCELLENT. Far better than the somewhat orphaned Mystique. BTW, the native support for the M3D (Voodoo) is not necessarily DOS. Have you seen M3D (Native Voodoo/Windows/WinGlide) versions of: POD ? Psygnosis F1 ? GLQuake ? Didn't think so. Face it, you have a video card which only _partially_ supports the D3D standard with little to NO native support. I normally wouldn't jump in like this, but frankly you are passing around VERY bad advice.

<<As if doing such a thing could be categorized as GOOD.>> I assume you speak and read English. Do you grasp the concept of "not good" vs. "good"? Here's my quote: "Well, that's ONE way to flush the Papyrus lurkers out of the woodwork. Not a GOOD way, but it IS one way..." I have nothing against Charlie, since I don't know him. His company, OTOH, seems to have taken a wrong turn (excuse the bad pun) under the "leadership" of Sierra. These are simply my opinions, to which I am every bit as entitled as you, Charlie, or anyone else here. I assume Sierra/Papyrus has a legal department. If I was an employee of the company and discovered evidence of the theft of my copyrighted product, I'd feel duty bound to report it to Legal. Again, that's my opinion. But the modus in here seems to be to***and moan endlessly about the character -- or lack thereof -- of everyone else for any reason whatsoever. If it's illegal, shut it down. If *you* think it's immoral, but it's NOT illegal, give it a rest. Barton Brown

> This should ease everyone's pain. You guys who have been crying about this > being illegal please don't download it. (Fat chance). This is NOT the > shareware track. > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6576/index.html If you think that I will be on your side, well... ... NO! We don't have to publish the tracks on webpages. World Wide Web is really too PUBLIC for this. We will get into many troubles about web pages publishing N2 tracks. Now I just saw that Charlie from Papyrus is going out of r.a.s. for a while. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I never published the Indy track for Icr2 in a web page and never intended to do this. So don't blame me for being the one who started all this. It's just that many people e-mailed me to have the Indy track for icr2. because my philosophy is to make people HAPPY!HAPPY!HAPPY! I just had to send it to them. It was my destiny. I've gained now respect in the Simracing community and now we have to STOP this by STOPPING all N2 tracks webpublishing. All this converter, illegal tracks, etc. has to stay into our SimRacing community. We not have to get all this *** more public. We are a special community on the web and we must not stop our mission. We are destroying ourselves by getting the attention of other people when posting track in public places on the 'net. Thanks a lot, Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) SPEED- Cars, WC, BGN, Trucks, IROC, utilities and more... SPEED- http://www.sim-speed.com/ |! Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, !| |! Patrick Carpentier,Jeff Gordon and Greg Moore!!! !| |! May the force be with you, always!! !| |! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!! !| |! Excuse me for my poor English (I'm French speaking) !| Flight Cadet Nien Numb, Gold squadron http://www.dpliv.com/dragon/Gold/index.html May the force be with you, always!!

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|! Official French r.a.s.s.m. Cool guy !| |! Official French r.a.s. cool guy !| |! Official Star Wars geek fan !| |! Official Anti-trekkies SW *** !| |! Official Jedi Master of NSWL !| |! Official SW Gonk religion fan !| |! #1 rec.autos.simulator post writer !| |! Best French SimRacer on the 'net !| |! Official Annoying long signature guy (thanks Eric!) !|

Hi Dave, Sorry but I fail to see the connection. Please explain. BTW. To clarify my previous post. This is a free 'conversion program'. You must have INDY.DAT already installed on your system in order for the conversion program to work. [URL replaced] http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6576/index.html

Better performance than _any_ other card? Better than 3dFX? Better than Voodoo Rush? FWIW my friend has a system comprising Mystique and 3dFX, either of which can be used to run Direct3D titles - the Mystique can't even compare when considering titles like Moto-Racer, MDK, POD etc. Performance wise the Mystique offers good performance in DOS, but it's well down in midfield should 3D performance be your priority. The original post was asking for information on the best graphics card for GP2, ICR2 and NASCAR2. Maybe you could respond again keeping the original question in mind and see if you come up with the same recommendation...? :) I would say that anyone looking to the future of games under Direct3D would be far better looking at the ET6000/3dFX combination which offers far superior perfomance and flexibility than the Mystique (unless they're fans of N2, ICR2 and GP2 when they should look at Rendition which gives superior performance in all of those AND support for Direct3D and Redline). -- Cheers! John (SRN-Europe) (Remove "NOSPAM" from address before replying...)

I switched it off this time just for you. Fair enough, I stand corrected. I mentioned that I wasn't an expert. I felt that some of the animosity was unwarranted. Have a nice life. Pete

Uhh... What?

> Uhh... What? Tommy me boyo-- You've got it exactly right. If you put your finger under each word as you read along, it will make sense. That's what *I* have to do! Bart

From what I have read, I've come to the following conclusions: for N2 and ICR2 go with the Rendition, for GP2 it doesn't matter which card (Mystique, Rendition or 3Dfx), for 2D stuff Win95 and other DOS games Mystique is a better choice. Am I way off base here? Also, Eric wrote, "the future of games seems to be Direct3D as well as OpenGL, neither of which the Mystique is good at." Is the Rendition just better or great when compared with the mystique at Direct3D and OpenGL? Thanks for all the replies; I'm learning a lot :) Rob

For DOS games at use VESA modes the Rendition and Mystique perform about the same. For 2D DirectDraw games the Mystique has a noticeable advantage. It's not so much that the Mystique is bad at Direct3D (it actually scores pretty well), it's that it lacks filtering. The Rendition on the other hand, uses filtering thus giving you a much cleaner image b/c of the smooth textures. However neither of these cards work for OpenGL acceleration. The best 3D card (assuming you can live w/out Rendition Ready N2 and ICR2) are the cards using the 3Dfx Voodoo Graphics Chipset and the new Rush Chipset. Early boards were 3D only (they sat along side your current 2D card) but the newest ones using the Rush chipset are daughtercards that come with a 128-bit 2D card (quite speedy I might add). They are excellent at Direct3D, have great native ports of games, and can run OpenGL ports as fast as thousand dollar workstation cards. --