Papy, let us handle our own fuel situation

Papy, on the next patch or N3, can u please let us handle our own fuel situation again. I am getting sick of my crew chief putting in useless fuel in the car

I dont believe this *** You flame me for a legit gripe ( pitting AI ) and here you are ***ing about Fuel. You see what I mean people about priorities. You wanna know the sad part Papyrus is probably gonna consider this. Do you people want a realistic sim or not?

>Papy, on the next patch or N3, can u please let us handle our own fuel >situation again. I am getting sick of my crew chief putting in useless >fuel in the car It's not unrealistic, the real NASCAR teams typically fill a car every time it stops, even on the last pit stop. The cars are usually setup to drive better with more fuel in the tank. The only exception is if a car makes a splash-n-go pit stop. In that case, they will carefully measure how much fuel they need to get into the car to make it to the end in order to minimize the length of the stop. The crew chief is a little conservative on fuel estimates, but I'd rather finish the race with 5 extra gallons rather than run out. Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

The fact is, i've NEVER seen teh problems you note...not once...you act like ti happens all the time..and if it were a really major problem with teh game itself, ALOT of people would be screaming about it....I would complain too IF it had ever happened to me...I did note the strung out caution lap once, but the cars did pick up and keep going. I do understand your statements, but what I'm not seeing is alot of other people saying it too...just you...if it were a problem in teh game itself...wouldn't we all be seeing it? or at the very least alot MORE than just yourself or one or two others? As for other additions and things, I feel that this is a racing sim, it was setup as a driving sim, so the only things that should be adjustable are the things a driver has direct input to, and yes the driver has the final say on what tires to change, HE is the one who lets the crew cheif know how the car is handling and what he thinks the car can do. so the tire changing is a great item. the driver never has any real control over the fuel situation, and perhaps the game could use some fine tuning in the math dept, but it does the job...and a few extra gallons of gas never really hurt you in speed on the track. I WOULD like to see perhaps a new game or new add-on for N2 that lets you be the car owner or crew chief OR driver....or whatever combination...I think that would be a new twist..but its not that important to me at the moment. All I really want, is a decent lap at Richmond :( I *HATE* that race track hehe TrenT -- CatchMeIfU.........................Can

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> >Papy, on the next patch or N3, can u please let us handle our own fuel > >situation again. I am getting sick of my crew chief putting in useless fuel > >in the car > I dont believe this *** > You flame me for a legit gripe ( pitting AI ) and here you are > ***ing about Fuel. You see what I mean people about priorities. > You wanna know the sad part Papyrus is probably gonna consider this. > Do you people want a realistic sim or not?

well you both have 2 good points but jumping down someone throat is stupid. I think the fuel thing sucks. That kills any chance of a race coming down to a fuel thing. Atleast multi player I have run many races where fuel comes out to a big factor in the race. hey i love when i pit and the guy in front of me makes a miscalculation and runs out of gas. makes it more fun. -- -------------------------------------------------------- Brian Motisko http://members.aol.com/bmotisko/private/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------

>> The point of the matter is, the driver doesn't MAKE those decisions..the >> crew cheif does...so why igve you teh ability to adjust it? Thats not a >> realistic simulation then. the driver has no input in that decision. (SNIP)

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>I agree up to a point this program is about simulating being a >Winston Cup Nascar driver, but it's also about competing against >other real sim drivers online. >The more "regulated" strategic/tactical options available the better. >mykey

The same "crew chief" for all drivers means a little more parity on the multiplayer track. Nothing was more unrealistic than racing against a bunch of guys who loaded the "exact" amount of fuel in their "exactly setup for xx laps" car to race a sprint race online. I seriously doubt that the ability to determine fuel amount is worth any thing more than that and I'm glad to see it gone. It is no less a tactical or strategic option to plan for the current crew chiefs' fuel decisions than to do it yourself. I'm sure that under further scrutiny you'd find that he puts in different amounts depending on the laps left in the race. Knowing THAT is a strategic option. So imo it's a wash there. I always felt that running sprints, with its' fuel micromanagement, was way unrealistic and more akin to a Doom cheat than a tactical racing decision. And that is why the IROC leagues are appealing to me. The skill of the driver over the skill of the relentless nitpicker. If you need fuel management to get the edge then you need to just relax a bit and enjoy the drive a little more. :) Regards, Gavel..track fodder in leagues everywhere..SOMEONE has to finish 15th!!

Yeah but what the hell good is it if you cant even go 30 laps without everything getting all screwed up. Again I say the ability to control amount of fuel is far less important than a working Pitting AI. I personally dont want any more added features until Papyrus get the damn bugs out first. Added features are nice but weigh far less in my mind than runnability of the Sim. Does anyone at all agree with me? Yeah I know you do Kerry Grant, looks like we're fighting a lost cause. Evidentally No one cares Key words folks Runnability and Priorities I dont understand how you guys post asking Papyrus for Fuel, Save Game, Message Mode, etc........ but you could care less if the damn thing has a BIG bug in it. Yeah ok lets make sure that we get a fuel thingy too so that in your spare time Papyrus you might consider fixing something important. It's not just the stopping on the track, has noone else had this happen . example you finish a pit stop and all of the sudden half the field is crashing on pit road in front of you . Now what the hell are you supposed to do about that. I mean its rediculous cars are bouncing off the wall and into each other all the while your spotters yelling " There's a wreck on pit road" . Yeah took half the field out.

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> The point of the matter is, the driver doesn't MAKE those decisions..the > crew cheif does...so why igve you teh ability to adjust it? Thats not a > realistic simulation then. the driver has no input in that decision. > Also, when was the last time you saw someone pit and not fill up on fuel > when they had time to do so....the game only adds teh fuel necessarry to > finish the race according to your mileage. My last pit stop at tally was > with 14 laps to go, they only added like 10 gallons of gas, I could be > off on that, but It was not a full load, because I noted that it was > alot less than 22 gallons. > -- > CatchMeIfU.........................Can

If your numbers are correct then your info proves the point. 14 laps at tally is 37.24 miles. Your gas mileage at tally should be at least 5 miles per gallon. so 8 gallons would sound like plenty. If you think this is supposed to be "realistic" then the crew chief should be able to be replaced by someone with better math skills. I enjoyed running out of gas on the cool down lap after the race in N1. Besides how often does the driver decide which tires to change? I agree up to a point this program is about simulating being a Winston Cup Nascar driver, but it's also about competing against other real sim drivers online. The more "regulated" strategic/tactical options available the better. mykey

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> >> >Papy, on the next patch or N3, can u please let us handle our own fuel > >> >situation again. I am getting sick of my crew chief putting in useless fuel > >> >in the car > >> I dont believe this *** > >> You flame me for a legit gripe ( pitting AI ) and here you are > >> ***ing about Fuel. You see what I mean people about priorities. > >> You wanna know the sad part Papyrus is probably gonna consider this. > >> Do you people want a realistic sim or not? > >well you both have 2 good points but jumping down someone throat is > >stupid. I think the fuel thing sucks. That kills any chance of a race > >coming down to a fuel thing. Atleast multi player I have run many races > >where fuel comes out to a big factor in the race. hey i love when i pit > >and the guy in front of me makes a miscalculation and runs out of gas. > >makes it more fun. > >-- > >-------------------------------------------------------- > >Brian Motisko > In real NASCAR racing the driver does not do the fuel calculation. A > guy with a clipboard and a calculator does it while the driver > concentrates on what he's supposed to do, which is drive. Having to > make all the pit decisions using the function keys while trying to > maintain an optimum line around the track isn't very fun. > Kyle Langston > ______________________

I personally feel 100% justified in asking to have a patch for N2 to allow for driver adjusted fuel because of two things in the manual. 1) Page 32. In addition, you can adjust the "Fill To" value to the amount of gas you'd like put in the tank during your next pit stop, using the Greater Than (">") or Less Than ("<") keys. 2) Page 210. UNAUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIONS: Sierra warrants only that the program will perform as described in the user documentation. mykey

> Maybe we all should go back and read the full manual for GP2.... What > gems could be hiding in it that we have overlooked? ;-) Sorry...What Gems you ask....NONE!!!!!! I must have read the manual 10 times and still couldn't understand how to make a car setup other than trial and error. SEE YA, Doug -- "Somebody's gonna wreck, let it be the other guy!" Please remove ' * ' Before mailing. It is a spam blocker!!!

: I personally feel 100% justified in asking to have a patch for N2 to : allow for driver adjusted fuel because of two things in the manual. : 1) Page 32. : In addition, you can adjust the "Fill To" value to the amount of gas : you'd like put in the tank during your next pit stop, using the : Greater : Than (">") or Less Than ("<") keys. : 2) Page 210. : UNAUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIONS: Sierra warrants only that the program : will perform as described in the user documentation. Hand this man a Medal. This has to be a first in r.a.s., someone who has READ the manual. :-D But, you know what, he now has a valid point, so quit dumping on him and his legitimate request. Maybe we all should go back and read the full manual for GP2.... What gems could be hiding in it that we have overlooked? ;-) -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Damn... my crappy UK manual only has 98 pages... why are we Europeans ripped off so often! :( -- Formula T2 Upgrade Page - http://huizen.dds.nl/~jjcox

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> I personally feel 100% justified in asking to have a patch for N2 to > allow for driver adjusted fuel because of two things in the manual. > 1) Page 32. > In addition, you can adjust the "Fill To" value to the amount of gas > you'd like put in the tank during your next pit stop, using the > Greater > Than (">") or Less Than ("<") keys. > 2) Page 210. > UNAUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIONS: Sierra warrants only that the program > will perform as described in the user documentation. > mykey

Actually, you can specify the fuel load with the keys, as described in the manual on page 32. It's just that you can only do this in test sessions. Actual NASCAR teams must top off all fluid levels before inspection, hence, before being pushed out onto the starting grid. Then, during a race, the only time you'd want less than a full tank is on your last pit stop; I look at it as a relief that the crew chief works this out for me, I'd much rather just drive those final laps as hard as the car will let me. I guess we could have been more specific about the test session factor on page 32, though. God Bless, Steve

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> > I personally feel 100% justified in asking to have a patch for N2 to > > allow for driver adjusted fuel because of two things in the manual. > > 1) Page 32. > > In addition, you can adjust the "Fill To" value to the amount of gas > > you'd like put in the tank during your next pit stop, using the > > Greater > > Than (">") or Less Than ("<") keys. > > 2) Page 210. > > UNAUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIONS: Sierra warrants only that the program > > will perform as described in the user documentation. > > mykey > Actually, you can specify the fuel load with the keys, as described in > the manual on page 32. It's just that you can only do this in test > sessions. Actual NASCAR teams must top off all fluid levels before > inspection, hence, before being pushed out onto the starting grid. > Then, during a race, the only time you'd want less than a full tank is > on your last pit stop; I look at it as a relief that the crew chief > works this out for me, I'd much rather just drive those final laps as > hard as the car will let me. I guess we could have been more specific > about the test session factor on page 32, though. > God Bless, > Steve

If your tires won't last as long as a full tank then the only time the tank should be full is at the start of the race, and qualifying. And only then because the "rules" say you must!! If the sim is trying to play the role of the crew chief then why can he give some educated input on setup changes. Seems either too many things are left up to the driver, or not quite enough. Sure let the crew chief give his (or her) input for fuel amounts but let the driver over-ride this value if wanted. On a side note: Rear Spoiler. Is this something that gets adjusted during the race in "real" Nascar? Does it require some tech inspection before leaving the pits? mykey

There are sound files for 'we'll get just enough fuel' and 'we'll get just a splash of fuel'. Ned wouldn't lie.

Yep I agree with this as well. After all he was only asking. I would like to adjust my own fuel as well the main reason is for multi races. Not the first time I won or lost with bad maths...:-) Sure as hell makes it more fun when it happens. Imagine 8 players (Which we have every second Saturday Night) all coming into the pits at Talladega needing a splash and go to have half run out half way down the straight. If I was to add another thing I would like to be able to have a full season in multi play collecting points and a pause button for multi racing like in GP2 . Shane Lansky Hobart,Tasmania Australia

Yes you can adjust the spoiler during the race in NASCAR. It is checked after the race. Kerry Grant

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> >: 1) Page 32. > >: In addition, you can adjust the "Fill To" value to the amount of gas > >: you'd like put in the tank during your next pit stop, using the > >: Greater > >: Than (">") or Less Than ("<") keys. > >: 2) Page 210. > >: UNAUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIONS: Sierra warrants only that the program > >: will perform as described in the user documentation. > >Hand this man a Medal. This has to be a first in r.a.s., someone who > >has READ the manual. :-D > >But, you know what, he now has a valid point, so quit dumping on him > >and his legitimate request. > Yep I agree with this as well. After all he was only asking. I would > like to adjust my own fuel as well the main reason is for multi races. > Not the first time I won or lost with bad maths...:-) > Sure as hell makes it more fun when it happens. Imagine 8 players > (Which we have every second Saturday Night) all coming into the pits > at Talladega needing a splash and go to have half run out half way > down the straight. If I was to add another thing I would like to be > able to have a full season in multi play collecting points and a pause > button for multi racing like in GP2 . > Shane Lansky > Hobart,Tasmania > Australia

> On a side note: Rear Spoiler. Is this something that gets adjusted > during the race in "real" Nascar? Does it require some tech inspection > before leaving the pits? > mykey Yes, the rear spoiler can be adjusted in the pits. It's often done with some sort of mallet, or frenzied tugging. God Bless, Steve

Actually, Steve...you can't. At least I can't. What's worse, it that the photo on that page doesn't show "Fill To". It shows a different wording.. And I was in a test session, so I know I was in the right place. This was with v1.03(1). DNR Enterprises http://members.aol.com/dredick825/index.html =============================================== Home of the largest BGN site on the 'Net...49 cars and counting!

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> Actually, Steve...you can't. At least I can't. What's worse, it that the > photo > on that page doesn't show "Fill To". It shows a different wording.. And > I was in > a test session, so I know I was in the right place. > This was with v1.03(1). > DNR Enterprises > http://members.aol.com/dredick825/index.html > =============================================== > Home of the largest BGN site on the 'Net...49 cars and counting!

I haven't tried the patch out yet; I'm almost done with a championship season I've been running, and then I'll apply the patches. But it does work this way in the original release. The picture is slightly different because the book had to be completed about a month before the software did. God Bless, Steve