Ten the Nro and Rendition cards

> I was wondering if people with the Rendition card are going to be able to > run in Rendition mode on Ten?Has there been any new info on the NRO? > Thanks,Eric im sure it wouldnt matter. Hawaii it doesnt make a diffrence that we run in svga or vga mode. not sure though... -- -------------------------------------------------------- Brian Motisko 717-876-5536 http://members.aol.com/bmotisko/private/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------

I was wondering if people with the Rendition card are going to be able to run in Rendition mode on Ten?Has there been any new info on the NRO? Thanks,Eric

But what if you did have one ??? It's an awful lot of money to have in a video card and you cant use it on NRO and as a matter of fact some high end 486 users get a livable frame rate with graphics cut on by using rendition NO use me giving any more cash into this bottomless pit until I see NRO up and running as well as an alternative payment plan for those who don't want to pay credit card interest rates . The sim is the greatest racing software I've ever seen but Sierra needs to give their marketing department a swift kick in the ass for the fumbles and missed opportunities they've committed thusfar

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> I don't have a Rendition card, so if they don't support the use of > Rendition on TEN, I'll appreciate the levelling of the playing field > somewhat. > >I was wondering if people with the Rendition card are going to be able

to

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> >run in Rendition mode on Ten?Has there been any new info on the NRO? > > Thanks,Eric > Kyle Langston > ____________________________________________ > IBM #72 Ford Thunderbird - Hurricane Racing > http://www.traction.git.net/hurricane/ > NASS Series - 1997 - Winsten Cup Division > http://www.traction.git.net/snrc/ > Inside Online Racing > http://www.traction.git.net/ior/

How does someone who is running a Rendition card have an advantage over you while racing on-line? I have two systems here, one with and one without a Rendition. When running multiplayer, the only difference I see is the Rendition is clearer. Just asking..... Robert

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> >I don't have a Rendition card, so if they don't support the use of > >Rendition on TEN, I'll appreciate the levelling of the playing field > >somewhat. > How does someone who is running a Rendition card have an advantage over you > while racing on-line? I have two systems here, one with and one without a > Rendition. When running multiplayer, the only difference I see is the > Rendition is clearer. > Just asking..... > Robert

If you system is setup and running properly it should also have about a 10fps speed improvement. This should make the game easier to drive consistent lines with because it gives you more time to react to the environment. The advantage won't guarantee a win but it is a definite advantage. Dana Bailes

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> > >I don't have a Rendition card, so if they don't support the use of > > >Rendition on TEN, I'll appreciate the levelling of the playing field > > >somewhat. > > How does someone who is running a Rendition card have an advantage over you > > while racing on-line? I have two systems here, one with and one without a > > Rendition. When running multiplayer, the only difference I see is the > > Rendition is clearer. > > Just asking..... > > Robert > If you system is setup and running properly it should also have about a > 10fps speed improvement. This should make the game easier to drive > consistent lines with because it gives you more time to react to the > environment. The advantage won't guarantee a win but it is a definite > advantage. > Dana Bailes

But if they don't allow the use of the rendition cards they would be cutting thier own throats. They made the game, and marketed it so consumers would purchase the card (one of which they sell). I would be extrmly disapointed if they told me I couldn't use it after spending $200 on a video card, to make my game more enjoyable. Lyman,

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> > > >I don't have a Rendition card, so if they don't support the use of > > > >Rendition on TEN, I'll appreciate the levelling of the playing field > > > >somewhat. > > > How does someone who is running a Rendition card have an advantage over you > > > while racing on-line? I have two systems here, one with and one without a > > > Rendition. When running multiplayer, the only difference I see is the > > > Rendition is clearer. > > > Just asking..... > > > Robert > > If you system is setup and running properly it should also have about a > > 10fps speed improvement. This should make the game easier to drive > > consistent lines with because it gives you more time to react to the > > environment. The advantage won't guarantee a win but it is a definite > > advantage. > > Dana Bailes > But if they don't allow the use of the rendition cards they would be > cutting thier own throats. They made the game, and marketed it so > consumers would purchase the card (one of which they sell). I would be > extrmly disapointed if they told me I couldn't use it after spending > $200 on a video card, to make my game more enjoyable. > Lyman,

Guys you are making a big deal out of nothing.The videos cards give no advantage to anyone only how the Game looks when running.They give no preformaance enhancements. Paul

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> On Mon, 05 May 1997 16:02:25 -0400, "Paul Carillon Jr." > >> > > >I don't have a Rendition card, so if they don't support the use of > >> > > >Rendition on TEN, I'll appreciate the levelling of the playing field > >> > > >somewhat. > >> > If you system is setup and running properly it should also have about a > >> > 10fps speed improvement. This should make the game easier to drive > >> > consistent lines with because it gives you more time to react to the > >> > environment. The advantage won't guarantee a win but it is a definite > >> > advantage. > >> > Dana Bailes > >Guys you are making a big deal out of nothing.The videos cards give no > >advantage to anyone only how the Game looks when running.They give no > >preformaance enhancements. > >Paul > One person says a Rendition card increases the frame rate, another > says it provides no performance enhancements. Which is true? > For the record, it doesn't really matter to me whether Rendition cards > are supported or not. However, what I meant by the statement above is > that when I'm racing someone that is pretty even with me, one tenth of > a second each lap would be significant. My impression about Rendition > cards is with the increased frame rate you could very easily improve > your lap times by that amount or more since you have a better frame > rate. > Kyle Langston > ____________________________________________ > IBM #72 Ford Thunderbird - Hurricane Racing > http://www.traction.git.net/hurricane/ > NASS Series - 1997 - Winsten Cup Division > http://www.traction.git.net/snrc/ > Inside Online Racing > http://www.traction.git.net/ior/

Ok agreed there Kyle becuase i gained speed by going from a Tseng 1 mg card to a Velocity 3d w/4mg but I still believe as long as your computer is fast enough the card will be irrevialant. Just my opinion Paul

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> One person says a Rendition card increases the frame rate, another > says it provides no performance enhancements. Which is true? > For the record, it doesn't really matter to me whether Rendition cards > are supported or not. However, what I meant by the statement above is > that when I'm racing someone that is pretty even with me, one tenth of > a second each lap would be significant. My impression about Rendition > cards is with the increased frame rate you could very easily improve > your lap times by that amount or more since you have a better frame > rate. > Kyle Langston > ____________________________________________ > IBM #72 Ford Thunderbird - Hurricane Racing > http://www.traction.git.net/hurricane/ > NASS Series - 1997 - Winsten Cup Division > http://www.traction.git.net/snrc/ > Inside Online Racing > http://www.traction.git.net/ior/

Wouldn't that argument hold true for someone with a P-200 vs P-90. Where would you draw the line? If you bought it, you can use it. mykey

True the fact that's it looks better doesn't really matter, but I still beg to differ with your conclusion. Higher framerates give smoother gameplay making for better response to your controller input which in turn leads to faster lap times. --

Yes. The same driver will get slightly better lap times on a faster system (whether due to the processor or videocard). The smoother the input from the controller, the faster you will be able to go. The same would hold true for wheels vs. joysticks, though in the original unpatched version of N1 a joystick was faster due to the digital (either on or off) gas and brake. --

Guess I will have to take your word on that. Since my Non-rendetion machine runs N2 in SVGA ( P-120 reduced graphics ) as well as the other runs the Rendition version ( P-200 full graphics ), I guess I am just missing the difference. They appear to run the same, it's just that the rendition version can run with more of the eye candy turned on. If I have a rendition card, and were actually getting a better frame rate / smoother control, wouldn't turning off some of the graphics speed up the other guys computer and make his control smother? This appears to work here. At least in my un-sanctioned at-home tests. Other's results may differ. Robert

I hold that opinion also. Makes sense to me. I would find it hard to belive that a P-90 with a rendition card would out perform a P200 with an decent video card. Unless the 200 was a PB....... Hopefully, they won't draw a HARDWARE line anywhere. A kindred soul. Robert

It does increase the frame rate, if your systems DMA is setup right. When I first got my rendition card, driving it really sucked. Then I updated my BIOS and the DMA actually worked. Actually liked the card after that. A will concede the fact that if the card is doing most of the work for producing the graphics, then the CPU has more time for the mundane things, like polling the JS port for input. My point is, if I turn off all the prettys on the non-rendition machine, then the CPU isn't overworked with drawing trees, grandstands and other non-required distractions, then it has more time to see what the JS is doing. Which on my systems, make them pretty even. I can not turn any faster times at Talladega with my Pentium 200 / Rendition computer, with all graphics on, than I can with my Pentium 120 / S3 Vision864 with the grass/asphalt turned off. Using a T1 on the 200 and a T2 on the 120. Both use a SB16 gameport. These are the systems I have here, and are the only ones I can comment on. Your results may vary. Thanks. What a guy! :-) If you listen to the ACM users out there, they seem to get that same 1/10th of a second simply by using a good gamecard. Shouldn't they worry you also? And what about the 486/586 guys out there? Aren't they at a disavantage? I mean their frame rates really blow. I tried to run N2 on my old 586-133 with 24 megs, and I had to turn a LOT of things off just to be able to play it. Should there be a limit on the CPU you can use in the NRO? I don't know know if any of the above means anything to anyone. All I am trying to point out is that there are a lot of other things that dictate frame rate or JS sensitivity. The rendition cards are just one of them. Fast CPUs, dedicated gamecards, fancy TSW's, ECCI's and the T1/T2/GP1 wheel / pedal combinations all play a part also. And I am sure the owners of the above would kick and scream if someone wanted to ban their use. This isn't real Nascar where you have to go through a equipment inspection to play. Any control device is ok, so why not any video card? Oh, and what about that voice commander thing? Shouldn't those guys have to take their hands off the wheel to press whatever key combo they need to press and risk crashing like the rest of us? Ok, now the disclaimer for the " what if " challanged. I do not think any of the above listed items should be banned from the NRO. The above were just the other pieces of hardware that I could think of that would also increase a persons lap times, thereby being " unfair " to the person / persons not owning a piece of like equipment. You bring your hardware to the track and leave the sector editor at home. Then " Gentelmen, start your engines ". The above was closely edited to remove anything that could be considered a flame. Please feel free to do the same in any reply that may be forthcoming. Have a nice day. Robert

>> > > How does someone who is running a Rendition card have an advantage over you >> > > while racing on-line? I have two systems here, one with and one without a >> > > Rendition. When running multiplayer, the only difference I see is the >> > > Rendition is clearer. >Guys you are making a big deal out of nothing.The videos cards give no >advantage to anyone only how the Game looks when running.They give no >preformaance enhancements. Perhaps I missed something, but this is what I was implying by my question. As far as I know, the system ( NRO ) is going to have to sync the game somehow, to prevent the faster machines from running away from the slower. I am talking about the game being sync'ed in real time. If I am getting 30 frames a second, the NRO server is going to have to keep me in sync with the others who are getting 20-25, or slower. In fact, I just stopwatched my non-rendition system against the computers posted times. They matched, down to 1/100th of a second whether I was using reduced graphics or full. The full graphics looked choppy, but the watch and the games matched times. In fact, Hawaii does this now. I don't think that everyone there is running the same frame rates. I think that my non-rendition in SVGA is just as responsive to the T2 controls as me rendition one is to my T1 controls. I just have to turn off some graphics to make them that way. If my having a Rendition card would give me an unfair advantage because my control was " finer ", then I say that those using a ACM, CH3 or whatever card would have that same unfair advantage against those of us who use the soundcard's joystick port. After all, there has to be a reason for spending those extra bucks, right? You planning on banning them too? Or a wheel? Surely those with a wheel or good JS have an advantage over those using ( shudder ) the keyboard or a simple JS. Gotta ban those too. The list goes on and on.... Last I heard, the requirements were N2, Ten, and the ability to pay. Why make it more complicated? Have a nice day, Robert

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> > >I don't have a Rendition card, so if they don't support the use of > > >Rendition on TEN, I'll appreciate the levelling of the playing field > > >somewhat. > > How does someone who is running a Rendition card have an advantage over you > > while racing on-line? I have two systems here, one with and one without a > > Rendition. When running multiplayer, the only difference I see is the > > Rendition is clearer. > > Just asking..... > > Robert > If you system is setup and running properly it should also have about a > 10fps speed improvement. This should make the game easier to drive > consistent lines with because it gives you more time to react to the > environment. The advantage won't guarantee a win but it is a definite > advantage. > Dana Bailes

Wait a minute! So they should limit access to NRO to people having a, let's see, a Pentium 90? Because these snobs with MMX P200s are having a big advantage in fps!!?? Back to reality... l8er ronny

But the video card is not the only way to improve framerates,so their is no argument

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> Yes. The same driver will get slightly better lap times on a faster system > (whether due to the processor or videocard). The smoother the input from > the controller, the faster you will be able to go. The same would hold > true for wheels vs. joysticks, though in the original unpatched version of > N1 a joystick was faster due to the digital (either on or off) gas and > brake. > -- > >Wouldn't that argument hold true for someone with a P-200 vs P-90. > >Where would you draw the line? > >If you bought it, you can use it.

So how will this advantage be diff from real cup racing? The teams that have more money and can afford the parts will run better. where as the guys who dont just have to do there best. I know when I ran my p75 on hawaii i was beating guys with p166 i just turned my graphics down until i had a good frame rate.... -- -------------------------------------------------------- Brian Motisko http://members.aol.com/bmotisko/private/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------

Yes, and if you have a P-90 and I have my P-225MMX then I have an advantage over you. The Rendition changes nothing in terms of the equality of racing, those with more money get more CPU horsepower, and that allows them to run more detail. As we all know frame-rate is vital for sim-racing, so turn off those textures, turn down the cars on-screen, even drop down to VGA if necessary and regain the control you need. If anything the Rendition cards make the playing field MORE level. Before these were availble you would need a new CPU and motherboard at several hundred dollars. Now a $149 card gets you all the performance you need. Sounds pretty fair to me. -- Cheers! John (SRN-Europe) (Remove "NOSPAM" from address before replying...)

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> > On Mon, 05 May 1997 16:02:25 -0400, "Paul Carillon Jr." > > >> > > >I don't have a Rendition card, so if they don't support the use of > > >> > > >Rendition on TEN, I'll appreciate the levelling of the playing field > > >> > > >somewhat. > > >> > If you system is setup and running properly it should also have about a > > >> > 10fps speed improvement. This should make the game easier to drive > > >> > consistent lines with because it gives you more time to react to the > > >> > environment. The advantage won't guarantee a win but it is a definite > > >> > advantage. > > >> > Dana Bailes > > >Guys you are making a big deal out of nothing.The videos cards give no > > >advantage to anyone only how the Game looks when running.They give no > > >preformaance enhancements. > > >Paul > > One person says a Rendition card increases the frame rate, another > > says it provides no performance enhancements. Which is true? > > For the record, it doesn't really matter to me whether Rendition cards > > are supported or not. However, what I meant by the statement above is > > that when I'm racing someone that is pretty even with me, one tenth of > > a second each lap would be significant. My impression about Rendition > > cards is with the increased frame rate you could very easily improve > > your lap times by that amount or more since you have a better frame > > rate. > > Kyle Langston > Ok agreed there Kyle becuase i gained speed by going from a Tseng 1 mg > card to a Velocity 3d w/4mg but I still believe as long as your computer > is fast enough the card will be irrevialant. > Just my opinion > Paul

So how fast does your computer have to be? You must have 200mhz or better. The only thing I've seen that could sustain 30fps at full detail w/o Rendition was a PPro200. Most people don't have this. The sad thing is a P133 with a Rendition card runs smoother and looks much better. Most people would rather take this route. If you think a faster processor is a match for a Rendition card you must not have seen a Rendition card in action, there is no comparison. High performance 3D hardware is the future of ***, not faster processors. Dana Bailes

: One person says a Rendition card increases the frame rate, another : says it provides no performance enhancements. Which is true? : For the record, it doesn't really matter to me whether Rendition cards : are supported or not. However, what I meant by the statement above is : that when I'm racing someone that is pretty even with me, one tenth of : a second each lap would be significant. My impression about Rendition : cards is with the increased frame rate you could very easily improve : your lap times by that amount or more since you have a better frame : rate. I think that your impression is correct, Kyle. Any enhancement of frame rate "should" translate to enhanced performance on the track. So, someone running with a system chugging along at 14-18 fps is a a disadvatage to someone flying at 28-30 fps. Gotta keep in mind that Rendition video cards aren't the only way to up ones frame rates. Running less detail, using the fastest CPU's, running in low-res. One would like to think that the playing field is evened out abit by the process of NRO/multi-player structure. This includes latency and the fact that the server is doing the work of keeping track of the cars. But, no matter how you look at it, there will always be ways to find the "racer's edge". Better game controllor card/steering combos for example. And since it's going to be competition, you know people will be looking for that extra edge. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Absolutely. And you can get that frame rate by giving up detail. I don't know about you, but I don't have much time to admire the clouds and trees when I'm flying down the front straight of Michigan at 200 MPH. So turn some of the eye candy off. For Hawaii races, I have all detail turned off except skid marks and car textures. Just like the real thing. Look at the top teams, like Yates and Hendricks. They have sophisticated dynos for tuning up engines, portable shock dynamometers, and spend a lot of money testing in wind tunnels and on the track. Then you've got guys like Dave Marcis, who sells s***so he can keep doing what he loves to do. NROS is going to be a big series, with lots of room for competitors at every level. Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: [link lost in import] Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

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> > > >I don't have a Rendition card, so if they don't support the use of > > > >Rendition on TEN, I'll appreciate the levelling of the playing field > > > >somewhat. > > > How does someone who is running a Rendition card have an advantage over you > > > while racing on-line? I have two systems here, one with and one without a > > > Rendition. When running multiplayer, the only difference I see is the > > > Rendition is clearer. > > > Just asking..... > > > Robert > > If you system is setup and running properly it should also have about a > > 10fps speed improvement. This should make the game easier to drive > > consistent lines with because it gives you more time to react to the > > environment. The advantage won't guarantee a win but it is a definite > > advantage. > > Dana Bailes > Wait a minute! So they should limit access to NRO to people having > a, let's see, a Pentium 90? Because these snobs with MMX P200s are > having a big advantage in fps!!?? > Back to reality... > l8er > ronny

If you can't afford the cost of admission you will have to stay home. This is racing we are talking about, speed costs money. A P133 with a Rendition card will give you more than enough performance to be competitive on any level with the current software. Such a system is far from state of the art. Dana

Gotta agree with you Dave. Most any pentium with the detail turned down will produce sufficient frame rates with a decent videocard. I've used a Packard Bell P75 with a 2 meg card and run almost as smooth and most definately as fast, times wise, as a 200MMX. I have tested on many different machines and have found myself to be quicker on the machines with less horsepower. When I run on Hawaii I turn off most of the graphics also. othing worse than being distracted by an irate fan. I know if I called Nascar and said that my car would only do certain speeds and would like them to slow the competition down so I can be competative they would laugh at me. Just my opinion.

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> >I think that your impression is correct, Kyle. Any enhancement of frame > >rate "should" translate to enhanced performance on the track. So, > >someone running with a system chugging along at 14-18 fps is a a > >disadvatage to someone flying at 28-30 fps. > Absolutely. And you can get that frame rate by giving up detail. I don't > know about you, but I don't have much time to admire the clouds and trees > when I'm flying down the front straight of Michigan at 200 MPH. So turn > some of the eye candy off. For Hawaii races, I have all detail turned off > except skid marks and car textures. > >But, no matter how you look at it, there will always be ways to find > >the "racer's edge". Better game controllor card/steering combos for > >example. And since it's going to be competition, you know people will > >be looking for that extra edge. > Just like the real thing. Look at the top teams, like Yates and Hendricks. > They have sophisticated dynos for tuning up engines, portable shock > dynamometers, and spend a lot of money testing in wind tunnels and on the > track. Then you've got guys like Dave Marcis, who sells s***so he can > keep doing what he loves to do. > NROS is going to be a big series, with lots of room for competitors at > every level. > Dave Sparks > IWCCCARS Project: [link lost in import] > Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html > Hawaii Handle: davids

Exactly. My point was just that higher framerates lead to faster times. How you achieve these framerates really does't matter. -- s.concentric.net>...

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>Subject: Re: Ten the Nro and Rendition cards >Date: 6 May 1997 14:12:59 GMT >Gotta keep in mind that Rendition video cards aren't the only way to up >ones frame rates. Running less detail, using the fastest CPU's, running >in low-res. >But, no matter how you look at it, there will always be ways to find >the "racer's edge". Better game controllor card/steering combos for >example. And since it's going to be competition, you know people will >be looking for that extra edge.

Frame rate is extremely important, but for a given frame rate the guy with the most detail still has an advantage. In real life or in a sim, picking your turn-in point and your apex is the hardest part of high speed driving, and the driver with the most detail is going to have a better sense of where he is and therefore an easier time of it. It's more than just eye candy. Don Scurlock Vancouver, B.C.

Where is it written that to particapate in the NRO that you have to run with the graphics set to max. From what I can see, here, in my home, on my systems, a P-120 with the asphalt / grass turned off in SVGA is just as smooth as my P-200 with everything on in Rendition mode. It isn't as pretty, but I am not looking at the scenery, I am driving the car.

Actually, I do run a p90 with a Diamond Stealth w 2megs, and get a very good frame rate. Speed of the processor has little to do with frame rate. It is available ram on the video card that has more to do with the frame rate. My card is not a rendition card, but is still fast enough to get 25 or better fps with just a few of the details off. I cannot use the texture/grass setting, but other than a few exceptions(night race at Bristol) I can run very acceptable rates with most details on. A 486/66 will run good frame rates with a decent video card. I plan on getting a rendition card, but to upgrade my processor would be overkill, because it really won't help frame rates at all.

What does the following contribute to my sense of where I am on the track: 1. Asphalt / Grass textures ( F1 ) 2. Clouds in the sky ( F2 ) 3. High detail grandstands ( F3 ) 4. Fans in the grandstand ( F4 ) 5. The trees in the horizion ( F6 ) 6. Highly detailed cars ( F7 ) 7. Smoke / dust ( F8 ) 8. 39 cars in front / behind / around me Turn these off, and pick your turn-in point from what is left. Robert

Isn't it true that you can not run renddma or nasrend from windows95? With this in mind then all the advantage, if there really is any, would be a moot point since the NRO looks like it will have to be run from windows. Michael

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> Actually, I do run a p90 with a Diamond Stealth w 2megs, and get a very > good frame rate. Speed of the processor has little to do with frame rate. > It is available ram on the video card that has more to do with the frame > rate. My card is not a rendition card, but is still fast enough to get 25 > or better fps with just a few of the details off. I cannot use the > texture/grass setting, but other than a few exceptions(night race at > Bristol) I can run very acceptable rates with most details on. A 486/66 > will run good frame rates with a decent video card. I plan on getting a > rendition card, but to upgrade my processor would be overkill, because it > really won't help frame rates at all.

I don't know where you get your information but you are dead wrong. The amount of video memory has nothing to do with video performance. Video memory only enables higher resolutions and higher color depths. The chipset of the video card is probably the single most important factor in the peak performance that is possible, but you have to have enough processing power to reach that peak. A P133 with a Matrox Mystique struggles to maintain 25fps with most of the detail turned off so I don't think you are measuring properly. If you have a considerable amount of detail on you are probably getting about 20fps. There is a huge difference between 20fps and 30fps which is possible on most machines with a Rendition card. Dana Bailes

<snip> : I know if I called Nascar and said that my car would only do certain : speeds and would like them to slow the competition down so I can be : competative they would laugh at me. Just my opinion. Well, if your car was a Ford, they might change the rules a little. Then again if your car was Pontiac, they might change the rules a little. Then again if your car was the newly re-introduced Monte Carlo, they might change the rules a little. This is the game that all manufacturers play every day and hour with the NASCAR rules boys. And sometimes it works! <g> -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

: Actually, I do run a p90 with a Diamond Stealth w 2megs, and get a very : good frame rate. Speed of the processor has little to do with frame rate. : It is available ram on the video card that has more to do with the frame : rate. My card is not a rendition card, but is still fast enough to get 25 : or better fps with just a few of the details off. I cannot use the : texture/grass setting, but other than a few exceptions(night race at : Bristol) I can run very acceptable rates with most details on. A 486/66 : will run good frame rates with a decent video card. I plan on getting a : rendition card, but to upgrade my processor would be overkill, because it : really won't help frame rates at all. A couple of points to hopefully correct some mis-conceptions here: 1) Speed of CPU can have something to do with frame rate. The faster the CPU can calculate the the sooner it will be able to get around to sending the data to the video card. Another side effect of CPU speed is bus-speed (not talking about over-clocking here). Higher bus speeds can allow the needed data to get to your video card. 2) Amount of RAM available on the video card has everything to do with the amount of colors one can display and next to nothing to do with the frame rate. 3) For NASCAR2 a 486 will only give decent frame rates if run in low-res mode. But then for me a decent frame rate is a bare minimum of 22 fps. That's barely decent. It's not because it "looks" better, but because the sim handles and reacts better. This mis-conception of "smooth as silk" we hear about all the time is an illusion. Just because the screen doesn't jerk, doesn't mean that too much time isn't being spent calculating graphics instead of AI reactions and steering input. But, to each his own.... One of the reasons a Rendition card can speed up the frame rates of NASCAR2 (and other games programmed to take advantage of the Verite chips), is because it will take away some of the calculation done by the CPU. In a sense it's kinda like running two computers side-by-side in parallel (one calculates all of the 3-D graphics data while they other deals with sound, input and the sim). You will get a bigger jump in frame rate with the Rendtion card than you would by upgrading a P90 to a P166 (and at a lot less cost). If all you want is to up the frame rate of NASCAR2, then you are right about a new CPU being "overkill". As long as you are happy with the performance of everything else you may use your computer for, a Rendition card is your better upgrade path. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Nope. You can't run the DMA version of ICR2 in Win95, but with N2 it's not a problem. -- com>...

I have no problem running the rendition version from Win95.All I did was ask a question if we are going to be able to use our rendition card on Ten and got this big debate .Still didn't get my question answered

: I have no problem running the rendition version from Win95.All I did was : ask a question if we are going to be able to use our rendition card on Ten : and got this big debate .Still didn't get my question answered I can think of no reason why one could/would not be able to run in NRO using a Rendition card. The same goes for someone with a 486 vs the new PII. The only advantage is eye-candy and frame rate. Well those without the horsepower can get the frame-rate by not eating the eye-candy. The "server" won't even care about the frame rate as long is there is no tie to the latency timing. Of course, this is only my "educated" opinion. It could be wrong, but it had better not be! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

com>... No, both nasrend.exe and renddma ( nasrend.exe with the -dma switch ) work fine from Windows 95. But the point is still moot. :-) Robert

Eric, We can't even get a start date / price list, and you want to know what hardware we can use?? :-)

I don't think it will be a question of having rules against using a Rendition card, that would be absurd. The question is wether the TEN software will allow it. As it is now, you can not play an accelerated version of Quake on TEN, because their program looks for Quake.exe, so I would assume if it then looks for nascar.exe, and not renddma.bat, then it would be impossible.

<Berg brandonb states ...Quake on TEN, because their program looks for Quake.exe, so I would assume if it then looks for nascar.exe, and not renddma.bat, then it would be impossible. ---- if that's the case, then I would simply rename my nasrend.exe to nascar.exe and make a backup of nascar.exe. Andrew

t>... So, rename NASREND.EXE to NASCAR2.EXE, and let if try to tell em' apart. Or not......

Ahha! good idea.

Hey you know, that works. I was thinking renddma.bat used nascar.exe and not nasrend.exe for some reason. Silly me. It works for Quake too! And to think all these months I've been playing non-accelerated Quake. I am such a dolt sometimes!

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> >So how fast does your computer have to be? You must have 200mhz or > >better. The only thing I've seen that could sustain 30fps at full > >detail w/o Rendition was a PPro200. Most people don't have this. > Where is it written that to particapate in the NRO that you have to run > with the graphics set to max. From what I can see, here, in my home, on my > systems, a P-120 with the asphalt / grass turned off in SVGA is just as > smooth as my P-200 with everything on in Rendition mode. It isn't as > pretty, but I am not looking at the scenery, I am driving the car.

Which system would you use for the NRO? I thought so. You must have one kick-ass p120 to get 30fps with only asphault and grass turned off. As long as you are getting 30fps you are not at a disadvantage. But when you are getting less you are at a disadvantage. All system slow down some, but keeping frame rate as high as possible as much as possible is the optimum setup. If you have to reduce detail to do this then do it. I prefer to not deal with it if I don't have to. Dana Bailes

> >Which system would you use for the NRO? I thought so. > Neither, unless you are paying. If you aren't going to race in NRO why are you even in this thread? Here you are talking about video cards and frame-rates and you don't even know how to get the frame-rate in Nascar2. What a joke. Stick to something you know about. DLB

You may not be able to get an accurate frame-rate readout in N2 as in ICR2, but it still doesn't take a computer scientist to notice the differnece between the choppy regular version and the much smoother Rendition version. --

Because this is an open message forum, and someone made it seem that a person with a P60 with a rendition should be outlawed while someone with a Pentium II, 266mzh and a decent video card should be allowed to play. The Rendition is good, but get real. Listen jackass, I know that you can set the auto feature to turn on / off a certain feature when the FPS drops below, or rises above a certain level. I also know that most people here lie about the frame rates they are getting. I.e. the guy who runs his P60 with EVERYTHING on and it is smooth... Yeah, right. But if you think this is ACCURATE, then perhaps you should be the one keeping your yap shut. The frame rate counter is not in the released version, but it is in ICRII. But then again, you are the one who thinks the P60 Rendition will out perform the P200 matrox.

But you see, this is my point. I sit here, and run the both of my systems. The Reactor is in the 200, I let you guys figure out why. The 120 has a S3 with 2 megs on it. I run the 120 in SVGA, everything but the asphalt on. There is no chop. None, nada. I turn the wheel, gosh!! The car turns. Now the 200/Rendition. Everything on, gee, no chop there either. And again, if I turn the wheel, the car turns. It is funny like that. Makes them pretty equal, as far a driveability goes, at least in my eyes. Is the Rendition pretty? Heck yes. Is it fast? Ditto. Does it make the owner an undefeatable racing fool, to be banned from the NRO? No, it doesn't. Does it make a P60 - P133 better than a P166-200 with a good graphics card? Not in this life time.

Well in Nascar's ovals, the precise control is not as evident as in Indycar II. But the same theory should apply. If your screen is beginning to jerk or get choppy, the control imputs are also being interupted as the cpu tries to pump out the graphics. Braking becomes an on/off/on/off affair and a braking point will change almost every lap due to traffic and increased cpu workload. So those of us with inferior systems really get penalized, especially in traffic. Yes the car still turns left, but often it will lurch left onto the apron and then squiggle for a good while whilst we attempt to regain control. while we slow cpu'ers are wiggling , the big boys are rocketing by. smooth graphics equals more than just a nice picture, it also affects your control inputs. Dave Henrie Not Today! ThankYOU Pepsi Club.

R: I ditto this. Is just plain obvious this is how it happens. Q.B.M.

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>> Well in Nascar's ovals, the precise control is not as evident as in >> Indycar II. But the same theory should apply. If your screen is >> beginning to jerk or get choppy, the control imputs are also being >> interupted as the cpu tries to pump out the graphics. Braking becomes >> an on/off/on/off affair and a braking point will change almost every >> lap due to traffic and increased cpu workload. So those of us with >> inferior systems really get penalized, especially in traffic. Yes the >> car still turns left, but often it will lurch left onto the apron and >> then squiggle for a good while whilst we attempt to regain control. >> while we slow cpu'ers are wiggling , the big boys are rocketing by. >> smooth graphics equals more than just a nice picture, it also affects >> your control inputs. >> Dave Henrie >R: >I ditto this. Is just plain obvious this is how it happens. >Q.B.M.

It's not quite that simple; in fact the physics and joystick inputs continue to be processed at the same rate no matter what the display frame rate capability of your system is, so if you're able to handle the joystick the same way on a slower system, you'd drive the same line. However, when you have a slower frame rate, the latency between your visual reaction and joystick response can make a big difference in the quality of control you're able to apply to the car, so for example on a slower system you're more likely to see cars over-correcting and then having to apply a counterforce to keep the car on line in a corner.