If id software made Nascar2

If id software made Nascar2 things would be a little different around here. For a start the web would be full of Nascar2 news sights, not sights updated once a month but daily and more, with news not just of paint jobs, but new tracks, cars , and total conversions. By now every race track in the world would have been recreated, every type of race car also. There are intelligent people out here who with the right tools could do anything they want to the sim, if they had the chance. But instead we just sit around waiting for one mythical patch (yes I know its here but did it really make alot of difference overall). As well as this There would be a free way to have 30+ multiplayer racing and It would be in true 3d (haha) and they would go out of there way to continually make it better and support all the lattest hardware eg 3DFX 3d cards. Obviously most game companies want to make as much money as possible, why give your customers the ability to make tracks when you can charge them for a track pack. So why did id software do all the things they did? because it sold C.Ds . Thats where game companies make there money not from charging people to play multiplayer. id didnt go out to make a billion dollars and because of that they made alot of money with Quake. As a word of warning to Papyrus , id software is not a major company like sierra, Quake was made by 9 people. Who knows, it might only take 9 dedicated race simmers to get together and make a sim that tears Papyrus off there perch. As far as the licenseing goes, does it really matter GP1 didnt have the f1 license and it did alright. If we were able to manipulate the source then all the logos and such could be put in latter. a little bit more than 2 cents but there you go food for thought. Todd.

Todd, Thanks for telling them like it should be!!

Jesus That was good. I totally agree with you but cant put it into words like you did. Good job

At least we would have a grappling hook to tow us back to the pits:)

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>If id software made Nascar2 things would be a little different around here. >For a start the web would be full of Nascar2 news sights, not sights >updated once a month but daily and more, with news not just of paint jobs, >but new tracks, cars , and total conversions. By now every race track in >the world would have been recreated, every type of race car also. There are >intelligent people out here who with the right tools could do anything they >want to the sim, if they had the chance.

Agreed 100%. Papyrus/Siera needs to crawl out of the 1980s and join the modern world. There is NO reasonable excuse for the lack of a track editor being released. Look at I76 - Activision's "complex undocumented" editor (i.e., it's in exactly the same state as Papyrus) was included on the CD, and there are already dozens of new tracks on the net. And that's the main reason I don't play Nascar2 any more, I'm bored with the same old tracks. Joe McGinn =================================================== Author of Inside LotusScript, available August 1997 http://www.browsebooks.com/McGinn/ ===================================================

Oh come on... GET OFF IT FOLKS!!! THERE ARE NO WHAT-IFS!!!! PAPYRUS MADE IT< THEY DID A DANG GOOD JOB SO SHUT UP ALREADY!!! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT PLAY IT!! There, I'm done. Mike Frazer Mike Frazer #11 American Airlines/STP/MBNA Ford, IGN Prime Time Motorsports

>GET OFF IT FOLKS!!! THERE ARE NO WHAT-IFS!!!! PAPYRUS MADE IT< THEY >DID A DANG GOOD JOB SO SHUT UP ALREADY!!! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT >PLAY IT!! Get bent or chill out or something, dude. I bought it and I'm bored with it. I have some ideas for features that would regain my interest and make my a repeat customer for Papyrus. I'm willing to pay for them. If this newsgroup isn't an appropriate place to discuss these issues I don't know what is. Joe McGinn =================================================== Author of Inside LotusScript, available August 1997 http://www.browsebooks.com/McGinn/ ===================================================

Todd It sounds like you don't like Nascar 2 from Papyrus. Sell it and never play it again. And let me know when someone does something better in the Nascar type of racing. If you yourself can make a Nascar sim better than Papy and do it for nothing I'll pay you a fare price for it. But don't get one ***ing thing wrong in it. -- Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

> >GET OFF IT FOLKS!!! THERE ARE NO WHAT-IFS!!!! PAPYRUS MADE IT< THEY > >DID A DANG GOOD JOB SO SHUT UP ALREADY!!! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT > >PLAY IT!! Can you say: P-S-Y-C-H-O-S-T-I-M-U-L-A-N-T?!! -DG-

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> >GET OFF IT FOLKS!!! THERE ARE NO WHAT-IFS!!!! PAPYRUS MADE IT< THEY > >DID A DANG GOOD JOB SO SHUT UP ALREADY!!! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT > >PLAY IT!! > Get bent or chill out or something, dude. > I bought it and I'm bored with it. I have some ideas for features that > would regain my interest and make my a repeat customer for Papyrus. > I'm willing to pay for them. If this newsgroup isn't an appropriate > place to discuss these issues I don't know what is.

Afraid I agree with Mike. "What if I won the lottery - maybe I could afford a GP2 machine" "What if..." Dream all you want but you gotta wake up sometime :-) Games die after a while. Loved Tomb Raider, until I got bored about 1/3 of the way through. Enjoyed Quake (single player), now I'm bored in the second episode. Doesn't matter what new levels I get I just can't be bothered with it. On the other hand I'll probably play N2 until N3 (played N1 'til N2) because I like that no two races are the same and racing around 'real' tracks enhances my enjoyment of the sport. N2 is marketed as a sim, so they had no need to add a track editor. It's a shame we don't have Daytona or Indy and I'd like to see them as much as the next guy, but it doesn't reduce my enjoyment of what I have right now. To be honest I'd rather wait (even if they never arrive) for official, Papyrus produced versions than hack away at an editor. I'd want them done as well as they could be. No one owes you a lifetime of entertainment for the price of a game. Mark Reading, UK

Well Said Ole Boy! : :

Thank you. For once I can say I agree with something...If people want to flame and say what if and get all high and mighty about someone else doing a better job...all i want to know is, WHY don't they do it then? and yes, if they spout off like this, they had better not***up one single thing. Let's get real, if you dont like it, don't play it, and if you do, just enjoy what you have...it's the best out there at the time.. TrenT -- CatchMeIfU.........................Can

I agree entirely. N2 is the best racing sim on the market today. I was a big fan of N1, and N2 blows it away. I have an older P90 with 16megs ram, and the original video card (non-redition, 2d, 2megs) and run quite smoothly with most effects on. (If I turn on track textures it kills it though!) I have not installed the patch yet, but probably will today. Papy has been very helpful with any problems I have had, and if history repeats, they will do everything they can to solve the problems with the patch. The only problems I have had with the original N2 was the pit problem at Atlanta, the occasional bump in the Talledega pits, and did get totalled once at Richmond when a car came through the pit wall and nailed me. The best thing we can do is to help Papy by reporting problems, and by all means let them know what kind of system you are using. With all the different configurations we use, it is damn impossible for them to test them all. -- Regards, Ed Medlin

VERY well put mark. :) -- Lannie Schafroth Pathworks Network Administrator Iowa Network Services, Inc. Voice: 515 830-0443 4201 Corporate Drive Fax: 515 830-0123 West Des Moines, IA 50266 Any statements herein are my own opinion and not that of my employer.

>N2 is marketed as a sim, so they had no need to add a track editor. That's just not logical, one is not connected to the other. Funny, other game companies disagree. I guess I'll just spend my money with them. Joe McGinn =================================================== Author of Inside LotusScript, available August 1997 http://www.browsebooks.com/McGinn/ ===================================================

: To be honest I'd rather wait (even if they never arrive) for : official, Papyrus produced versions than hack away at an editor. I'd : want them done as well as they could be. So what you are saying is that ONLY Papyrus can make good tracks? We DO have a car editor available (ie paint). Does Papy make the best cars? Yea, they're good, but other people make them just as good, if not better. Don't put Papy up on a pedestal based on their ability to make something that many other people can make, or make better.

> : To be honest I'd rather wait (even if they never arrive) for > : official, Papyrus produced versions than hack away at an editor. I'd > : want them done as well as they could be. > So what you are saying is that ONLY Papyrus can make good tracks? No. I'm sure Bizarre Creations and Microprose can hold their own but they don't market a NASCAR sim. I -am- saying that I think it's -extremely- unlikely that joe public with a track editor, some photographs and whatever technical data they can acquire would be able to reproduce a Daytona or Indianapolis as good as Papyrus could with the level of technical expertise and information that they have at their disposal. Even if you could get a track to look similar to the real thing, the fun of sims is getting some sort of idea what it's like to drive the actual tracks as opposed to see what it looks like from the driver's seat - there's a difference. AFAIK Papyrus speak to Winston Cup drivers to get this (most important) aspect of the sim right. Now that -is- something that, in all reality, ain't gonna happen on a home build! Not -quite- as involved as an entire track design. When it arrives, I'll buy and enjoy it. I look forward to 'Doug Reichley's Winston Cup Racing' ;-) Mark Reading, UK

> >N2 is marketed as a sim, so they had no need to add a track editor. > That's just not logical, one is not connected to the other. It's got all the tracks and drivers they could get for the 1996 season. That's what it set out to achieve. I'll bet Papyrus are as sorry as us that they could't get Daytona or the Brickyard - I'm sure it would have upped sales. It's about simulating a real motorsport run on actual tracks and thats what it does - very well IMHO. I've had none of the problems that others seem to have had with the patch, but I've 'only' run one 50% race since I installed it :-) Personally, a track editor would have been the last thing I would have expected to see on a features list on such a game (real world sim). Maybe a fantasy sim (is that what X-car is about?) would be more your sort of thing. I'd like to talk to you when you retire to find out which games you're still playing then that you own now ;-) Seriously, though, I can honestly say no company has given me anything even close to the 'hours enjoyed/cash outlay' ratio that Papyrus has. It's just a fact. Obviously, our tastes differ. You pays yer money and takes yer choice. Mark Reading, UK

Recreating a track is an order of magnitude more complicated than painting a car, though. Papyrus sends people out to the track with a camera, a whole pile of film, and a measuring tape. They take pictures of the track from every possible angle. They have access to engineering drawings. They measure the width of the track and the pit area, etc. They have a car drive around the track and take video and pictures from the car. They study the racing line on the track. How many people creating home-grown tracks are going to have that level of access to a track? Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

Sorry Joe, this letter was pretty fragmented when I got to it. But Im going to agree and dissagree with you.. 1. Nascar 2 is by FAR the most AWSOME and realistic game I have ever played on a computer! 2. Alot of time was spent on the programing in Nascar 2 3.Question: How much BETA testing was done? There sure was alot of bugs left in the program, and after 1 patch? It looks like their going to need another one. 4. You mentioned that the tracks Daytona and the Brickyard would have boosted sales.... I bought the program under the impression that those "tracks" were included in the CD, and was rather dissapointed when they werent. But oh well, Im sure Pappy will put them online soon, at no extra cost... after all we did PAY for ALL the tracks in the 96 season... so they should be here soon.... (yeah right) 5. No matter what happens, I enjoy this sim on a daily basis, and will continue to play until my arms fall off.... Life is only so long.... Enjoy yourself! Wyle E.

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> > >N2 is marketed as a sim, so they had no need to add a track editor. > > That's just not logical, one is not connected to the other. > It's got all the tracks and drivers they could get for the 1996 season. > That's what it set out to achieve. I'll bet Papyrus are as sorry as us > that they could't get Daytona or the Brickyard - I'm sure it would have > upped sales. > It's about simulating a real motorsport run on actual tracks and thats > what it does - very well IMHO. I've had none of the problems that > others seem to have had with the patch, but I've 'only' run one 50% race > since I installed it :-) > Personally, a track editor would have been the last thing I would have > expected to see on a features list on such a game (real world sim). > Maybe a fantasy sim (is that what X-car is about?) would be more your > sort of thing. > > >No one owes you a lifetime of entertainment for the price of a game. > > Funny, other game companies disagree. I guess I'll just spend my money > > with them. > I'd like to talk to you when you retire to find out which games you're > still playing then that you own now ;-) > Seriously, though, I can honestly say no company has given me anything > even close to the 'hours enjoyed/cash outlay' ratio that Papyrus has. > It's just a fact. > Obviously, our tastes differ. You pays yer money and takes yer choice. > Mark > Reading, UK

: When it arrives, I'll buy and enjoy it. : I look forward to 'Doug Reichley's Winston Cup Racing' ;-) People that say "If you can do it better then do it yourself" don't understand what constructive criticism is. I didn't say I could do it better anyway. I just said Papy is not the only ones capable of making good games.

> : When it arrives, I'll buy and enjoy it. > : I look forward to 'Doug Reichley's Winston Cup Racing' ;-) > People that say "If you can do it better then do it yourself" don't > understand what constructive criticism is. Check out that bit at the end of the line. Smiley. Joke (of sorts). Of course I understand what constructive criticism is! My discussion was earlier in the post (which you've snipped). Funnily enough, that's exactly what -I- said. Please re-read my post - I wasn't having a dig, just defending my point of view. You implied that someone using a track editor would be able to do as good a job as Papyrus at building Daytona or Indy based on the fact that people can paint better cars. I explained why I thought this wouldn't be the case. I agree that Papy aren't the only ones who can make good games! But they are the -only- ones who -have- made decent NASCAR games. That's why I said that if any other company released a good NASCAR sim I'd buy. I enjoy discussions on this newsgroup. I'm not a fan of and don't want to get into arguments, so I'm sorry if I've been misinterpreted. Good Racing, Mark Reading, UK.

Here's where I'll disagree with you. I wish the Brickyard and the Beach were on there too, but one word: LICENCING (excuse the spelling). Sega OWNS the right to use those tracks in video games (Daytona USA, Daytona USA CCE, Indy 500, which are good games but NOT that realistic in the sense of the looks of the track). Sierra/Papy probably won't be able to get their stinkin' hands on them for a couple of years (and btw, one more gripe to add to the list of N2 gripes: We ordered the special 'upgrade' for $29.99 from Sierra with the 'promise' that it would be in time for christmas; come Dec. 25, no N2. Come late Feb, finally N2. They eventually sent back the order with the 'bad credit card #' error for a good credit card, all the while, sierra had told us they never got it!!) My 25 cents (i gave a lot) Kirk Lane

This isn't much a a comment, but more of a question...when and where did you see/hear/get told that N2 would have "ALL" the tracks? I never heard this..... TrenT -- CatchMeIfU.........................Can

I don't think you paid for ALL the tracks. The front of the box clearly states *16* officially licensed tracks. Clearly, there are more than 16 Winston Cup tracks in the 1996 season, so you can plainly conclude that you paid for 16 tracks and not ALL the tracks. ---Jim

Am I the only one who sees this subject line and shudders at the thought of how***they'd make the wrecks? Ewwwww.... ;-) (a big fan of Papyrus ever since I bought "Indy 500" for my XT)