GP2 Stick Or Wheel ?

Can anyone suggest which control device is better ? A few friends and I have only just got into GP2 in a big way, mainly through Linkup mode.The problem is we have started to take it very seriously (Snide E-mails and the like,all in good fun!).The thing is we are all using the keyboard and would like some advice on which would improve our enjoyment.I quite like the idea of the wheel and pedals,any ideas on which makes or models. Thanks in advance David Herbert Bicester Oxon

Quoted text (14 lines)

> Can anyone suggest which control device is better ? > A few friends and I have only just got into GP2 in a big way, > mainly through Linkup mode.The problem is we have started > to take it very seriously (Snide E-mails and the like,all in good > fun!).The thing is we are all using the keyboard and would like > some advice on which would improve our enjoyment.I quite like the idea > of the wheel and pedals,any ideas on which makes or models. > Thanks in advance > David Herbert > Bicester > Oxon

A wheel and pedals is definitely the best way to go. You can pick up a Thrustmaster T2 for about $100 or even better models for more. If you can't afford a steering wheel you should at least use a joystick. But beware that if you go cheap on the joystick the motion can tend to be jerky and often drift during play which can be worse than using the keyboard. What I'm really trying to say is that you should get the best controls you can afford and you will improve your enjoyment of the game substantially over using a keyboard. Brian Johnson

Definately a wheel. You may want to consider a Thrustmaster T2 or a combination of a Thrustmaster GP and some CH pedals.

Definitely the wheel and pedals. If you want top quality there's the GP500 wheel/pedals, but its well over 200 quid. Probably the only set with pedals that don't give you leg aches over a long race. It's changed its name recently, but I can find out more if you're interested. For a good quality set at a more reasonable price try the Thrustmaster T2. Many of the shops in Oxford sell them, but you'll save loads by getting it mail order. I would recommend a good dealer like RC Simulations in Bristol, as they'll help you out should any components fail (springs have failed on mine, but I have the older T1). Personally I think that the cheaper wheel sets are flimsy and uncomfortable, so would advise avoiding them - but let's hear from folks who have used them.

> Can anyone suggest which control device is better ? .... Take my word for it - get a T2 and work at it until you can play without any steering or driving aids. This is the closest to real F1 that you are going to get in a sim. If you do get a T2 and you are struggling with a no steering or opposite lock CONfiguration, mail me. -john

Hi Dave. Australian made.. Advantage 1 Wheel and pedal assembly. All steel, top quality swithes on wheel for changing gears. Unbreakable. But it is expensive. Around the $380. You can order it from TECS. If there is a delay getting one, get back to me. Cheers Paul Ward

Depends on what you feel comfortable with? Some people have responded to this message saying wheel and pedals are best, you will improve enjoyment of the game, etc. However, some people simply cannot get on using wheel and pedal set-ups!!! I use both, a T2 and the keyboard, I am by no means the best driver in the world, but my laptimes are respectable, and I find I am quicker with the keyboard than the wheel and pedal combo? If you check out the web sites for hotlaps and set-ups, you will notice that some of the fastest guys out there use the keyboard. So you cannot dismiss using the keyboard, if you find you are quicker with keys, stick with them, if not, try a wheel or joystick. I would also advise you to try out different wheel and pedal sets before buying, there are a few available now, and you may like one, but not another, so try before you buy!!! My personal preferences for wheel and pedal sets are this.... If your on a budget, get a T2, it feels good and will last for a while, (not too much plastic) expect the springs and pots to go, but Thrustmaster after sales service is legendary, and theres no problems in getting spares. If you can afford it, go for a "quality" wheel and pedal set-up, I am saving for a GP500 (now called the F1 Sim), I have used one and they are the absolute dogs b*ll*cks!!! Best quality you can get? Stay away from the Mad Katz, G-force Yoke, Per4ormer, etc, they are cheap and ***. This really is one area where you get what you pay for. d:~) #:~> **Peter**

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC3AAB.84FFB360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have found the keyboard to be pretty darn quick. I just bought a T2 and it didn't take me long before I was matching and surpassing my old records(2 days). Not everyone is the same, though. The T2 is a lot easier on the hands and I am much more relaxed after a race than with the keyboard--too much tapping on keys. Hope this helps... -- "The HotSeat" http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~sf5j-rdyn/ Includes: The Paddock, Tournaments, The Ladder, The Winner's Circle, GP2 Links, a tutorial and multiplayer mode info ------=_NextPart_000_01BC3AAB.84FFB360 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 <encoded_portion_removed> Zm9udD48L2ZvbnQ+PC9ib2R5PjwvaHRtbD4= ------=_NextPart_000_01BC3AAB.84FFB360--

<snip> : I use both, a T2 and the keyboard, I am by no means the best driver in : the world, but my laptimes are respectable, and I find I am quicker with : the keyboard than the wheel and pedal combo? : If you check out the web sites for hotlaps and set-ups, you will notice : that some of the fastest guys out there use the keyboard. : So you cannot dismiss using the keyboard, if you find you are quicker : with keys, stick with them, if not, try a wheel or joystick. <snip> I am just curious, but could it not be that the fastest times are usually via keyboard because one almost HAS to have steering help on? Most people with wheels are more than likely turning all steering help off. Just a thought... -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Quoted text (27 lines)

> > Hi Dave. > > > Can anyone suggest which control device is better ? > > > A few friends and I have only just got into GP2 in a big way, > > > mainly through Linkup mode.The problem is we have started > > > to take it very seriously (Snide E-mails and the like,all in good > > > fun!).The thing is we are all using the keyboard and would like > > > some advice on which would improve our enjoyment.I quite like the idea > > > of the wheel and pedals,any ideas on which makes or models. > > > Thanks in advance > > > David Herbert > > > Bicester > > > Oxon > > Can you turn a***are you even a little bit of a Handy Man > well try to make your own. It really isnt that hard plus its more > rewarding you can get better tension all around than most you can > BUY plus you could do it for as little as $30 if you can find or make > the actual wheel. a good place to check out for some ideas is > [link lost in import: /./~neilj/wally/wheel2.htm]

Dave, While Paul here might have more time on his hands than most of us, I would not suggest trying to make you OWN wheel/pedal combo. It takes alot more than just "turning a screw". I know there are instructions out there for taking old joysticks and making them into gas and brake pedals, but its not worth it, believe me. You would end up spending plenty hours reading and figuring out how to construct these "garage sale" devices. By the time you would finally complete the proccedure you would have put in enough time and effort, not to mention the money on something that wouldnt compete with even the cheaper manufactured wheels on the market today. Look at it this way: Lets say you spend 30 bucks on the home-made devices, consider the time, gas to get there(even if the place has everything your looking for,etc.) You spend, lets say 2 hours reading and studying how to make the device and another 5 hours constructing it. So far you have around 35 bucks and 8 hours investeding your "project". If you make even a measely 7 bucks at your present job thats $56 for 8 hours. 56=35=91 bucks. For 9 more dollars plus tax you could go down to your local Circuit City and pick up a T2 for 99.99+tax. You also have a guarantee that the T2 will work not to mention it has been "streamlined" and developed fop the sole purpose of "racing" games. The bottom line is: Do you wana RACE or play around with old joystick pots and electrical tape?!! -David Gary-

Ive talked to a few of the guys who are posting GP2 "fast" times and it seems that most of them relay to me that most of the times created are with steering help on. Ive DL'd some of the record laps for GP2 in the past and its obvious that the steering help is on because you can see it in the***pit view. You also can easily tell in the replay if the person is driving ith a keyboard. But I have also heard that the keyboard is faster. Driving in traffic (IMO) would seem to be easier with the "smoothness" of a wheel. All in all, the "driving" software is supposed to simulate driving a real race car and thats why I personally use a wheel. The wheel adds more realism and thats what I am personally after not world record times. I have, however, come within one second or two of a few of the world records held by T.R. in ICR2 with a wheel. The bottom line is: I dont think these fast times should be considered "true" records(GP2) if help aids are used, This has been argued for months in MPS GP2 forum, but the fact of the matter is, that Damon Hill never had any type of electronic steering device that helped him "steer" his way to some of his world records! "8>} -David Gary-

Quoted text (21 lines)

> Hi Dave. > > Can anyone suggest which control device is better ? > > A few friends and I have only just got into GP2 in a big way, > > mainly through Linkup mode.The problem is we have started > > to take it very seriously (Snide E-mails and the like,all in good > > fun!).The thing is we are all using the keyboard and would like > > some advice on which would improve our enjoyment.I quite like the idea > > of the wheel and pedals,any ideas on which makes or models. > > Thanks in advance > > David Herbert > > Bicester > > Oxon > Can you turn a***are you even a little bit of a Handy Man

well try to make your own. It really isnt that hard plus its more rewarding you can get better tension all around than most you can BUY plus you could do it for as little as $30 if you can find or make the actual wheel. a good place to check out for some ideas is [link lost in import: /./~neilj/wally/wheel2.htm]

I hate to disagree with you but I built my own wheel and pedal combo. I ended up costing me about $50.00 and several hours to build ( my spare time is cheap so I don't count that as an expense ) Since I finished it I have had several months of racing fun on something I built myself not not some store bought piece of plastic. So far I have had one of my pots fail it cost a 1.49 at radio shack and took 15 minutes to replace. One more thing before I go I am willing to bet my leather bound Porsche wheel looks and feels better then your t2 plastic thing. Denny M

Quoted text (45 lines)

> > > Hi Dave. > > > > Can anyone suggest which control device is better ? > Dave, > While Paul here might have more time on his hands than most of us, I > would not > suggest trying to make you OWN wheel/pedal combo. It takes alot more > than just > "turning a screw". I know there are instructions out there for taking > old joysticks > and making them into gas and brake pedals, but its not worth it, believe > me. You > would end up spending plenty hours reading and figuring out how to > construct > these "garage sale" devices. By the time you would finally complete the > proccedure > you would have put in enough time and effort, not to mention the money > on something > that wouldnt compete with even the cheaper manufactured wheels on the > market today. > Look at it this way: Lets say you spend 30 bucks on the home-made > devices, consider > the time, gas to get there(even if the place has everything your looking > for,etc.) > You spend, lets say 2 hours reading and studying how to make the device > and another > 5 hours constructing it. So far you have around 35 bucks and 8 hours > investeding your > "project". If you make even a measely 7 bucks at your present job thats > $56 for 8 hours. > 56=35=91 bucks. For 9 more dollars plus tax you could go down to your > local Circuit City > and pick up a T2 for 99.99+tax. You also have a guarantee that the T2 > will work not > to mention it has been "streamlined" and developed fop the sole purpose > of "racing" games. > The bottom line is: Do you wana RACE or play around with old joystick > pots and electrical tape?!! > -David Gary-

You also have a guarantee that the T2 While i've been sitting back watching the 'Buy it V Make it' war go on I have come to the conclusion that to buy is better (for me at least) While i can see you might get a lot of satisfaction building your own device, I could see myself getting halfway trough bulding it losing my rag: and throwing said half made wheel out of nearest window:-) So T2 here I come! (if I can find one in oxfordshire) David Herbert Oxon

Look at the wheels page on my site at http://www.worldonline.nl/~flucas/index.html There you can find lots of info about lots of wheels. You can also compare wheels/joysticks/keyboard times in my top 10 tables. P.S. A wheel is certainly more fun! Frits

If you use a digital device, eg:- keyboard, you HAVE to have steering and throttle help ON. If you do not the car is impossible to control and get quick times. Bear in mind that a digital device is switched, eg:- either full on, or full off, there is nothing in between. So if you attempt to drive the car without the steering and throttle help on, every corner becomes a slide, every touch on the throttle becomes a wheel spin, the car is controllable, but the times will be slower, due to the full steering lock even when you don't want it, and the full throttle when you don't want it. Analogue control devices, eg:- most wheel and pedal combo's, have a progressive response to the controls, so you can control wheelspin and under/oversteer. Thats the difference? I use both keyboard and wheel, and I like both, it just so happens I have used the keyboard for longer and am more used to using it, thus I get faster times with the keyboard. I would agree, However, that the wheel and pedals is more rewarding, it "feels" better, more natural. In the end it comes down to personal preference, and what you feel comfortable with. d:~) #:~> **Peter**

Whilst steering help was undoubtably quicker in F1GP/WC, it is demonstrably slower in GP2. There _are_ some quick times by guys with steering help but they are all quite a bit slower than the best times. The driving aid that _does_ give a demonstrable advantage though is opposite lock. It gives a huge advantage in a race as it greatly reduces the chance of a spin and hence allows lower downforce setups to be used. Opposite lock doesn't provide any real advantage in hotlapping at a low downforce track, but it does seem to do so at what should be a high downforce one (e.g. Monaco) where they can run with lower rear wings than would otherwise be feasible. It also allows those who want a fast time at all costs to take shortcuts at chicanes that wouldn't be possible one time in a million otherwise. If you look at the HoF2 charts, you will see that opposite lock drivers dominate the top positions. Some of us refuse to use it, but there again, some of us refuse to shortcut the chicanes as well ;-) Cheers, Richard

I use my own Wheel and Pedal setup. This consists of CH Pedals,a Grant steering wheel threaded rod, ball bearings and some wood for a dash. I drive with throttle, braking and steering help off, and no driving aids whatsoever. I like to play Germany allot and my best time is 1:49. When I used to play World Circuit I had to use the steering help and I got Ace times on most tracks. I find that with Gp2 some tracks like Hungary and Monaco are very tough and not as much fun as Spa, Adelaide, Imola, Monza, and Germany. The setup I have makes GP2 the best racing sim on the market. I can't believe that people can badmouth the game at all. I will concede that you need a powerful computer to get good frame rates but it is a small price to pay. The braking is just perfection I can almost feel when they will lock and makes me very good at late braking. When coming out of a corner you can accelerate too much and the back end will start to come around and you can catch it. I have played Indycar, Indycar II, Nascar, and Nascar II none are as good in my opinion of giving you a feel for the car. In GP2 you can take any line on the track it might not be the fastest but you can do it and make corrections while in the corner to scrub off speed and save the car. This makes passing in corners possible. I would only recommend GP2 with a steering wheel and pedals and driving aids off. I usually run ammeter or Semi pro just to balance the times I can turn consistently with those of the computer. For example I can make 1:49 laps in Germany but some laps are 1:51 or 1:52 depending on the traffic, accidents or my own mistakes. In F1 racing every second counts you can't afford to lose a second a lap or 2 or 3 every now and then if you want a chance to win a 20 or 30 lap race. The only way that I GP2 can be improved is with a forcefeedback steering wheel now that really would be something. Try watching a real F1 race and play Gp2 it is as close as you'll every get to really driving a real F1 car.

Is that not because you have steering help permanantly on with the keyboard? Maybe you have found how to turn it off, please advise. I can get around much faster with the keyboard, mainly because the computer helps me around the corners... Happy driving !!! Andy.. -- 03/30/97 01:19 [ Standard Disclaimer ]

Some? I thought he only won one..... Ayrton and Michael had/have electronic steering help, it is known as SKILL...! Have fun,..... Andy.. -- 03/30/97 01:19 [ Standard Disclaimer ]

Wrong <g> - "opposite lock" help on, but "steering help" off. It _is_ possible to drive fast with steering help, but in GP2 it is slightly slower over a single lap (maybe quicker over a whole race as it is possible to drive at the edge for longer). ??? The steering help and opposite lock aids are NOT visible from the ***pit, unlike the F1 to F7 aids. Agreed - anyone who can afford a wheel but continues with keyboard isn't after a "sim" experience, so I find it difficult to understand why they are racing ;-) But each to his own.... Agreed again. Over on Compuserve we have separate hotlap charts for drivers who using steering help, no steering help but other aids and no aids at all. The times in the no aids category are quicker than the steering help ones, but slower than the top guy in the "some aids" chart. There's a hard core of us though who would never even contemplate switching on opposite lock or cutting chicanes just to get a faster time! Cheers, Richard