"Fantasy Tracks" for Indy and Daytona

What about adding the Mini Indy track, Homestead. That is a neat track. Also, The Las Vegas Track would be neat. Kerry Grant

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> Maybe this is a stupid question, but it has been bothering me for awhile as > I read the discussions about Indy and Daytona for Papy's Nascar Sims... > On the Playstation version of Nascar, I remember reading in this newsgroup > that there are 2 fantasy tracks included in the game... > Why doesn't Payprus develop "Fantasy Tracks" that are similar to Daytona > and Indy?????????? For instance, they could develop a track very similar to > Daytona, perhaps with a slightly longer backstretch and slightly different > banking and call it something like "Florida International Raceway." And > they could develop a flatter oval with about 9 deg of banking and call it > something like "Mid-Western Speedway," and maybe shorten up the > long-straights compared to the real Indy. Throw generic, non "official" > Nascar billboards on the tracks if licensing is a problem. > Is there any reason why Papyrus has to exclusively include REAL Nascar > tracks in their game? > Have they even CONSIDERED this option? I think it would make alot of the > die-hard fans, at least content to have legitimate Daytona and Indy > substitutes on their schedule, rather than deleting or substituting them > with existing tracks. > Can anyone tell me why this is not an option? > Tom Polen

Maybe this is a stupid question, but it has been bothering me for awhile as I read the discussions about Indy and Daytona for Papy's Nascar Sims... On the Playstation version of Nascar, I remember reading in this newsgroup that there are 2 fantasy tracks included in the game... Why doesn't Payprus develop "Fantasy Tracks" that are similar to Daytona and Indy?????????? For instance, they could develop a track very similar to Daytona, perhaps with a slightly longer backstretch and slightly different banking and call it something like "Florida International Raceway." And they could develop a flatter oval with about 9 deg of banking and call it something like "Mid-Western Speedway," and maybe shorten up the long-straights compared to the real Indy. Throw generic, non "official" Nascar billboards on the tracks if licensing is a problem. Is there any reason why Papyrus has to exclusively include REAL Nascar tracks in their game? Have they even CONSIDERED this option? I think it would make alot of the die-hard fans, at least content to have legitimate Daytona and Indy substitutes on their schedule, rather than deleting or substituting them with existing tracks. Can anyone tell me why this is not an option? Tom Polen

A while back - the Pits tried to make a "Florida Speedway" make to look a lot like Daytona. However, Daytona officials still complained. I suspect that making tracks that look like the real thing with a different name and some different graphics might still cause a confrontation. I do agree that Daytona and Indy would probably lose the battle - but I am not surprised that it is one that Papyrus and Sierra does not want to enter into. /THansen

I wonder why Papy doesn't do a track for the late great Ontario Motor Speedway? It just happened to have a track surface identical to Indy. Since the track is now an industrial park, I wouldn't think there would be a licensing problem. :) -Al

says... Probably because Nascar wouldn't like it. -- http://www.netins.net/showcase/mpete/nascar.html Mike's Nascar World Stop on by, what can it hurt?

[snip] : Why doesn't Payprus develop "Fantasy Tracks" that are similar to Daytona : and Indy? [snip] : Can anyone tell me why this is not an option? Tom I wish things could be that easy! :) For those of us that have been along for the ride since the ICR1 track packs were relaseased, we've been hoping. Thing is copyrights and trademarks go a long way. With NCR1 its track pack and lack of Daytona brought on these questions. As most people know, Sega owns the rights and "likeness" of Daytona in mass entertainment form; this locks out Papyrus from doing a look-a-like. For those that scream out for hackers to convert Talladega to a "Daytona" copyrights also come into play; the likeness of this track is licenced, and in what I concider ironic, copyrighted by the same owners of Daytona...if you use the likeness of one to make another, you're steping on the same trademark. Even what seems as simple as adding a few fictious tracks isn't that feasable, from the mouths of Papyrus. The tools they use to create tracks are complex in form, and it takes a while. On one hand I'd love to see it, but then again I've seen the two fantasy tracks included with N2's Playstation playform...they're great if you're into arcade racing (banking like THAT on a road course?). For what it's worth, I'm sure the programers at Papyrus indeed have a Daytona for themselves. It's just that it won't see the light of day. Don't bother pestering Papyrus, after all they wrote the game what tracks do you think they'd like to release? __o _-\<,_ Cosmo Potapoff

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>says... >> I wonder why Papy doesn't do a track for the late great Ontario Motor >> Speedway? It just happened to have a track surface identical to Indy. >> Since the track is now an industrial park, I wouldn't think there >> would be a licensing problem. :) >> -Al >Probably because Nascar wouldn't like it.

Well, there IS a slight difference between Ontario's design and that of IMS... Ontario carried the banking through the short chutes between 1 and 2 and between 3 and 4, where IMS rolls out and back in... RM

This has been the rumor ever since Daytona USA opened. Yes, Daytona USA Time Trials is based on N1, and has a Daytona track. But: the only thing you can do on that track is qualify (and pre-season testing). You cannot run any AI cars (including the pace car) on it, the player car(s) cannot pit, and you need a fairly "hefty" machine to get a decent frame rate at that track. (These are the "incompatibilities" that cause the Daytona track at the Time Trials to not work with N1.) So, while it's true that there exists a Daytona track, even we can't use it for racing... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

>I wonder why Papy doesn't do a track for the late great Ontario Motor >Speedway? It just happened to have a track surface identical to Indy. >Since the track is now an industrial park, I wouldn't think there >would be a licensing problem. :) I would like to see them do Ontario just to do Ontario. It was one of the finest racetracks ever built. But speaking of "fantasy tracks", they should do the TRC (Transportation Research Center) track owned by OSU. It's a 10-MILE fully banked oval! I believe (but could easily be wrong) that the world's all-time closed-course record was set there. The place is amazing. Other interesting choices might be some of the other auto company proving ground tracks. GM has a couple of 5-mile fully-banked circles and Nissan has a big track out in Arizona. And as long as we're making suggestions, I'd like to see Papy do an add-on for "classic" NASCAR from the days of the Hemis and King Richard. I wanna run a Dodge Charger Daytona! :) Dave Bird | The Universe is mostly made up of St. Petersburg, Florida USA | mutually exclusive opposites that Reply-To address modified in an obvious way to discourage e-spam.

>But speaking of "fantasy tracks", they should do the TRC >(Transportation Research Center) track owned by OSU. It's a 10-MILE >fully banked oval! Woops! Correction. It's "only" a 7.5 mile oval. It was a lot of years ago that I was there. Dave Bird | The Universe is mostly made up of St. Petersburg, Florida USA | mutually exclusive opposites that Reply-To address modified in an obvious way to discourage e-spam.

Jim, what I would love to see is Talladega redone for Nascar 1 for all of us faithful Hawaii users! Maybe as a reward for all the laps and money some of us have put in over the last year and a half! I for one would love to see 3 wide racing through the tri-oval and the drafting potential of such a track. Knowing that such a request for a dying proto-type is slim at best but maybe such a beast does exist! Regards Pete

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> >For what it's worth, I'm sure the programers at Papyrus indeed have a > >Daytona for themselves. It's just that it won't see the light of day. > This has been the rumor ever since Daytona USA opened. Yes, Daytona > USA Time Trials is based on N1, and has a Daytona track. > But: the only thing you can do on that track is qualify (and > pre-season testing). You cannot run any AI cars (including the pace > car) on it, the player car(s) cannot pit, and you need a fairly > "hefty" machine to get a decent frame rate at that track. (These are > the "incompatibilities" that cause the Daytona track at the Time > Trials to not work with N1.) > So, while it's true that there exists a Daytona track, even we can't > use it for racing... > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Tom is correct, but let me put this to rest once an for all... (like that will happen) ISC (International Speedway Corp) own 5 Winston Cup tracks, including Talladega and Daytona. So making one to look like the other doesn't work... they own both. Not to mention, but copyright laws protect both the name AND likeness of the product. Therefore, even if you were to create a speedway and call it something else, the likeness depicted is still a likeness of Talladega, which is copyrighted. Jed and I fought this battle a long time to attempt to produce "Daytona", but it was for nothing...you cannot get around copyright laws. And to ISC's defense, if they were to NOT put up a fight, they could lose their copyrights to the product if they were to just sit and let it happen. Part of the copyright law's rights include the right to fight for your product, and forfeiture of copyrights to that product if the company were to not get actively involved in protecting their property. Hint: There is only one way to release a product that could create a copyrighted track...and that is if the USER were to do all the modifications... Figure it out... Cheers! -- ??Jan Kohl?? **The Pits Performance Team** Computer Systems Programmer USAF Air-Ground Operations School Hurlburt Field, FL Castle Graphics - http://www.castlegraphics.com/ The Pits - http://www.theuspits.com/

I have just added Dodge to N2 instead of a Pontiac.

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> >I wonder why Papy doesn't do a track for the late great Ontario Motor > >Speedway? It just happened to have a track surface identical to Indy. > >Since the track is now an industrial park, I wouldn't think there > >would be a licensing problem. :) > I would like to see them do Ontario just to do Ontario. It was one of > the finest racetracks ever built. > But speaking of "fantasy tracks", they should do the TRC > (Transportation Research Center) track owned by OSU. It's a 10-MILE > fully banked oval! I believe (but could easily be wrong) that the > world's all-time closed-course record was set there. The place is > amazing. Other interesting choices might be some of the other auto > company proving ground tracks. GM has a couple of 5-mile fully-banked > circles and Nissan has a big track out in Arizona. > And as long as we're making suggestions, I'd like to see Papy do an > add-on for "classic" NASCAR from the days of the Hemis and King > Richard. I wanna run a Dodge Charger Daytona! :) > Dave Bird | The Universe is mostly made up of > St. Petersburg, Florida USA | mutually exclusive opposites that > Reply-To address modified in an obvious way to discourage e-spam.

I wood lole to RUN DODGE"S ON NASCAR 1OR 2 how about it papyrus CUDA http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5274/

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> But speaking of "fantasy tracks", they should do the TRC > (Transportation Research Center) track owned by OSU. It's a 10-MILE > fully banked oval! I believe (but could easily be wrong) that the > world's all-time closed-course record was set there. The place is > amazing. Other interesting choices might be some of the other auto > company proving ground tracks. GM has a couple of 5-mile fully-banked > circles and Nissan has a big track out in Arizona. > And as long as we're making suggestions, I'd like to see Papy do an > add-on for "classic" NASCAR from the days of the Hemis and King > Richard. I wanna run a Dodge Charger Daytona! :) > Dave Bird | The Universe is mostly made up of > St. Petersburg, Florida USA | mutually exclusive opposites that > Reply-To address modified in an obvious way to discourage e-spam.

I wood love to RUN DODGE"S ON NASCAR 1OR 2 how about it papyrus CUDA http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5274/

says... > > >I wonder why Papy doesn't do a track for the late great Ontario Motor > > >Speedway? It just happened to have a track surface identical to Indy. > > >Since the track is now an industrial park, I wouldn't think there > > >would be a licensing problem. :) > > I would like to see them do Ontario just to do Ontario. It was one of

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> > the finest racetracks ever built. > > But speaking of "fantasy tracks", they should do the TRC > > (Transportation Research Center) track owned by OSU. It's a 10-MILE > > fully banked oval! I believe (but could easily be wrong) that the > > world's all-time closed-course record was set there. The place is > > amazing. Other interesting choices might be some of the other auto > > company proving ground tracks. GM has a couple of 5-mile fully-

banked

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> > circles and Nissan has a big track out in Arizona. > > And as long as we're making suggestions, I'd like to see Papy do an > > add-on for "classic" NASCAR from the days of the Hemis and King > > Richard. I wanna run a Dodge Charger Daytona! :) > > Dave Bird | The Universe is mostly made up of > > St. Petersburg, Florida USA | mutually exclusive opposites that > > Reply-To address modified in an obvious way to discourage e-spam. > I wood lole to RUN DODGE"S ON NASCAR 1OR 2 > how about it papyrus > CUDA > [link lost in import]

Why don't you paint one? I doubt that Pay would paint one since it isn't in real nascar. I don't think Nascar would like it too much if Papy started making stuff up like Ontario, that no longer exists, or a Dodge car, that doesn't even have a car that meets Nascar specs. -- [link lost in import] Mike's Nascar World Stop on by, what can it hurt?

Make on yourself with the paint kit if you need a Dodge that bad Paint it after the Status or something About Papyrus making carsets to resemble the old stock cars of the past< I'm all for it! They would have to change the physics of the cars to make it truly awesome!

Speaking of TRC I recall that Road & Track did a Head to Head there back in the mid to late 80's against a stock car and a Porsche IMSA prototype. It was incredible the Porsche could only muster 232mph while the duct taped stock car pulled 240+ (If memory serves me correctly it was a Rothmans Porsche vs. Dale Earnhardt's Chevy)

(If memory serves me correctly it was a Rothmans Nope, it was the Rick Hendrick Chevrolet of Tim Richmond.

>Speaking of TRC I recall that Road & Track did a Head to Head there back in >the mid to late 80's against a stock car and a Porsche IMSA prototype. It >was incredible the Porsche could only muster 232mph while the duct taped >stock car pulled 240+ (If memory serves me correctly it was a Rothmans >Porsche vs. Dale Earnhardt's Chevy) Actually it was Tim Richmond's Folgers Chevy vs. Al Holbert's Lowenbrau Porsche 962. We had this subject (the Road & Track article) brought up in rec.autos.sport.nascar a month or so back and it convinced me to dig through my old mags to find the actual issue and set everyone straight since there were a lot of inaccuracies posted (probably because the article is 10 years old). Pretty entertaining article to read if you can scare up a copy of the January 1987 R&T. As for making the TRC into a sim game, come on - Talladega's boring enough! Give me Stafford Motor Speedway. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Southern New England Correspondent for "The Racin' Paper" Winston Cup 7 23 25 Busch South 3 6 34 47 NCTS 7 39 Busch North 15 47 28 4 Mod Tour IGN 93 1 43 NASCAR Busch North Info at http://www.vgernet.net/aclaffie/bgnn/

Yeah!!! How about Riverside Park (MA), Thompson (CT), New Smyrna (FL), Hickory (NC), Ace(NC), Orange County(NC), South Boston (VA), Oxford (ME), Langley (VA), St. Pete (FL).... How about it....??? Jimmy

Thanks Jan, We all think those words are coming from a guy who really know about track licensing and all the stuff. But I was wondering if it would be illegal if someone would draw from scratch a new track, example the international grand prix. This would be a 3,5 mile oval track (remember this is just a example!). Because no where in the world exist such track, would it be illegal to post it on the Internet. I think the only thing it would be illegal is because the NASCAR officials don't want it. Is it true? Thanks a lot, Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)

That is a-bit suprising since Chevy's Monte is too small for Nascar, and the Ford Tbird is due to be buried next year. So technically, nobody will have cars that meet Nascar specs. Dave Henrie

Aint illegal. Just make sure the track doesnot exist. The Pits at <A HREF="http://www.theuspits.com">www.theuspits.com</A> tried to make a Daytona, but quit because Daytona wanted to sue them even though the track was way better than Sega Daytona. Christopher http://members.aol.com/ROSCS In dedication to John Nemechek, who died March 21.