How much difference between 3D Nascar 2 and regular N2...

Is there a major difference between the 2 versions. If so, could you give some examples, i'm planning i'm buying a Rendition video card and just wanted to see if it's worth it. Also, if you have any screenshots of N2 3D mode, could you please send them along. Thanks!!!!

The only real difference aside from the speed increase is the use of bi-linear filtering. This feature helps to eliminates pixelization of closely viewed textures. See: http://www.rendition.com/techdef2.html BTW, unfortunately you can't take screenshots of N2 in Rendition mode. -- The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

I don't know about N2, but if you compare ICR2, with and without 3D support, the difference is HUGE.... I should be the same with N2. My guess is, that framerate as a minimum doubles with a 3D card. Besides that, the graphics are MUCH MUCH better.

Don't buy intergraph... They will not work with NT and the card itself is in a beta like state. Nothing really works they way it should and Nascar2 is also in a beta state. Unless you like dishing out money for products that don't preform as advertised that is.

NT drivers are in testing, and should be released in a few weeks. Aside from that, what problems are you having with the card? Mine works flawlessly with every app I have. -- The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

You say the card or the game doesn't perform "as advertised", IMO you may be in error...My Intergraph performs flawlessly, even N2 does pretty well.<g> With a Canopus card, Scitech's new Display Doctor, and renddma, I can get anywhere from 24-28fps (depends on track), all cars drawn, all graphics, and do this either in H2H or alone - all on a P100!! The game (and the cards) may have their quirks, but AFAIK they all perform "as advertised". If it is me who's in error, then please let me know what was advertised that wasn't delivered. This isn't a flame, just my own opinion not conforming to yours. :) Best Regards, Marc Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA http://members.aol.com/simracing

The difference in ICR2 with and without is very substantial, unfortunately for us the Nascar2 with and without is not as great..... I have a pentium 200mmx and a Asus board with 32 meg of edo ram and when running full detail still get a symptom I call freeze frame it is much less than it was with my cyrix166 but still it is there and I can even remove detail and it still happens? The only solution to get fluid frame rate at all times is kill the grand stands. What a Crock of ..... Dont be fooled by how fantastic ICR2 is in rendition mode, it is really fantastic. The truth is it bears little resemblance to the Nascar2 product in its current form. Save your money and get a faster prossesor, Nascar2 in full detail is very good, but for now the rendition of nascar2 is weak. just my opinion Doug Greer

BEFORE: AFTER: THEREAFTER: First there is a huge difference if you ask me. The best way for me to describe it other than it moves smoother and looks better, is I had (HAD is the key word) 1 system that didn't have a verite board in it. As it ended up the group I race with didn't want to play on the system and that system had a 32" svga monitor on it. They found tight control hard to find and that car always placed near the back. The people who bring systems over now are required to have a verite's in place. You can't take enough detail off to make the SVGA version runs as smooth as the excellerated version with everything on. Do it! To the guy that is having troubles with the Intergraph boards period. I ditto Eric, and would like to add I know now about 15 verite owners personally and I get NO negative feedback zero, zilch, nada, nothing, and it doesn't happen either. Q.B.m.

AGAIN: CASE 2: Doug Something is wrong with the system. Again I've seen and heard of dozens of systems that have absolutley no freeze frame. The only time I've seen freeze frame was because the user had a network card in their cpu and hap TCP/IP enabled with obtain ip address automatially. What resulted there was four pauses in order about 5 minutes apart. The resolve of that is to change you ip address from obtain to specify and then put in a fictious address so win'95 didn't go snooping. The above spans sveral different types of processors except cyrix. In your scenario. Look into it, something is off. Again I get full detail. ICR2 is a better port. But N2 isn't by any means bad, it's just not fully optimized. I still personally prefer N2 overall to ICR2. Disagree based on your system is doing something wrong. I hate to state it bluntly but I know it as FACT as I've seen so many system now that run it just fine in rendition mode. I'm sure people will offer help if you ask again. Q.B.M.

Eric, we have exchanged e-mails before about all the problems I have been experiencing with the Intergraph Reactor (now Intense). My main two complaints are: 1. Graphics glitches showing up on the screen at various places. This happens in DOS and Windows'95. These are creepy crawlie areas where pixels (pels) flicker on and off in a pattern. The most standard software that demonstrates this problem is Microsoft's diagnostic program, MSD. I know, this is a DOS program, and so maybe it is not the best example in the world, but it is something that everyone is likely to have installed on their system. When I go into this tool (By typing MSD at a MS-DOS prompt) I see two columns of information on the screen. The left hand column has Computer, Memory, Video, etc. The right hand column has Disk Drives, LPT ports, COM ports, etc. Before upgrading my BIOS to the 74 level, I got creepy graphics glitches on the right hand column. After the Intergraph flash BIOS upgrade, I got creepy graphics glitches on the left hand column. There all look like "off by one" errors. Where the drop shadow is one pel too far and the gap between the block color and the drop shadow is where the creepy crawlie graphics glitches show up. It attracts your eyes. Similar graphics glitches show up in Windows'95 on status bars while installing or downloading software. Sometimes the status bar will skip a column of pixels (pels) and thus, not be a solid bar from 0 to 100%. 2. I have some software that will not run satisfactory. The most frustrating one is connect.exe that is used to configure my DOS client software for dialing into a remote LAN. When I run this software, it runs very. VERY, SLOW. Like one second per character. And it is software that paints a "windows" like background and emulates "windows" like pull downs, etc. If I wait long enough, it will eventually paint the screen and ask for input. But using this tool is now impractical. I am not sure if this tool was written by IBM, Shiva, or jointly by both of them. It has both copyrights. Both of these problems have been reported to Intergraph and I have two problem tracking numbers. I have been informed by intergraph that both of these problems have been assigned "LOW" priority. If I only had one machine and it had a no-name motherboard, then I would blame the motherboard. But I have two identical machines with Intel motherboards and they both demonstrate these problems. Nascar2 (RENDDMA) and indycarII (INDYFAST) look great. IndycarII does hang rather often. The graphics will hang, but from the sound, you can tell that the game is still running. -- Best Wishes!!! Robert Huggins Raleigh, NC

>To the guy that is having troubles with the Intergraph boards period. I ditto >Eric, and would like to add I know now about 15 verite owners personally and I >get NO negative feedback zero, zilch, nada, nothing, and it doesn't happen >either. Well, maybe it is just me, but I have lots of glitches, hangs, etc. that I can attribute to my change from Diamond Viper PCI video to Intergraph Reactor (now Intense) video. I have two machines with Intel motherboards, but still, 15 out of 17 is not bad. -- Best Wishes!!! Robert Huggins Raleigh, NC

See below... I am having trouble with my Intergraph reactor also. I have also noticed some things in N2 that do not match the hype, adverti***ts, and manual. I have run into several bugs in the multiplayer. Yes, the game and the card do have some quirks. It would depend on how you define "as advertised". What is AFAIK? And For All I Know ???? I could come up with a long list. Basically, for the card, I just want it to wok with not side effects. No glitches on my screen, no hangs. For the game, I want the bugs fixed, the features left out to be included, the usability to be improved, and the hangs prevented. The usability issue is something that has seldom been mentioned in this newsgroup. There are several cases where there is no clue given as to the place that you need to click to type something or make something happen. Putting the text in a different color or putting it in a text entry box would give the visual clue that you might be able to click here and type something. Like changing the name of a driver, or saving a setup under a different name or chatting on the multiplayer screen. An expert at EUI's (End User Interfaces) is really needed here. (In my opinion) -- Best Wishes!!! Robert Huggins Raleigh, NC

I am not sure what you mean by a "beta like" state. I happen to own both a Reactor and N2, and I am quite pleased with both. The Reactor performs flawlessly, even when sitting on an overclocked bus. Are you complaining about the fact that Intergraph is optimizing their Win95 drivers? Yeah, I guess that I would complain too if someone continued the improvement process after they had my money, and were going to offer the improvements for free. Unless you signed some sort of an agreement for hardware or software support, any improvements you receive are icing on the cake. And yes, I do feel that Intergraph needs to release drivers for NT. But they don't owe them to anyone. And yes, I do feel that Papyrus should release a patch for the issues that have been beaten to death in this newsgroup, but again they don't owe anyone a patch. People are generally free to return merchandise that does not meet their expectations, but generally "you pay's your money, and you takes your chances". Try going down to the car dealer and see if they will freely "upgrade" the car you bought last year to one with this year's features, power, etc. They will (generally) fix things that are wrong if it falls under the warranty, but people don't usually walk out with more than they walked in with. Just my .02 --Marcus

- sniparoonie ~ I run a cyrix 166 and am networked with my wifes computer. I got the four pauses you mentioned but it was not due to the dynamic tcp/ip it was because an option in the network called 'browse master' was enabled. Disabling that fixed it immediately. After waiting about five days for technical support advice I finally received email from them saying 'use a boot disk' blah - blah - blah. Believe it was a 'form' email since I mentioned everything I had tried. Bottom line is they didn't have a clue and I figured it out on my own. Guess that is about four cents worth <g> hawaii: ingenious

> Is there a major difference between the 2 versions. If so, could you give > some examples, i'm planning i'm buying a Rendition video card and just > wanted to see if it's worth it. Also, if you have any screenshots of N2 3D > mode, could you please send them along. Thanks!!!! Can't get screenshots. Don't buy Rendition -just- for N2. If you're getting decent N2 performance now, Rendition might even slow it down (if your motherboard doesn't support DMA). If you can get a card bundled with ICR2-3D (I couldn't) that might be the deciding factor. Here's some things to mull over, though. Rendition VGA performance can reduce your PC to sub DX33 performance in Mode X games (examples: Doom, Destruction Derby 2, Tunnel B1 - the latter 2 need lo res to run at usable framerates). Tomb Raider is nice (better on 3Dfx - speaking from consensus, not experience) Quake is nice (better on 3Dfx - again, going on other's word) N2 looks a bit nicer and you can have all textures on (It's rumoured to be coming for 3Dfx) You can only get ICR2-3D bundled. I sold my 3D 2000 for Rendition, for N2. I wish I'd hung out a bit longer. Never thought Sierra would do multi-platform now it's in the hardware market. As far as I can see, the only reason to but Rendition over 3Dfx now is price (and maybe ICR2-3D - which I, faithful Papyrus customer, can't get). You pays your money and takes your choice. How often have you heard -that- one for 3D cards. Mark Reading,UK

Another Rendition supporter.....I have both the 3dFX card and a Canopus Total 3D card in my 200 mhz P5.....If you like N2 or Indycar 2.....get a Rendition based card....it's that simple....game play will be greatly enhanced. The Intense 3D can be had for a mere $150......the Total 3D for $279.....The frame rate speed up is dramatic and the graphics quality is seriously improved.....great track textures, cars look real, very few jagged edges....pure eye candy. Since Sierra is selling its own version, you know they will turn out some great titles.....ie Red Baron 2....that will use the card......The sense of motion imparted from an absense of any screen chop is worth the price of admission. Don't be dissuaded by other negative comments.....N2/Indy2 with any Rendition chip is a winning combo and if you notice any serious degradation of your other PC uses, I'll be surprised.....note: one comment about VGA performance has been adressed by a TSR if you have the need to play anything with VGA graphics.... MBG

It's a funny thing with the VGA Rendition performance. Excactely the same as SVGA. My guess is that Rendition not supports any VGA compability in hardware, and that the card is merly using a SVGA standard to emulate this (I might be wrong). But with a fast CPU it really doesn't matter, because the performance is fast enough in SVGA. And besides that, who plays VGA games anymore ;-) Mose

Well, it also displays in 65000+ colors, instead of 256... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

>What is AFAIK? And For All I Know ???? As Far As I Know, so close enough!!! Stuart -- Stuart Booth Somewhere in Oxfordshire, England, UK Note: My email address is in disguise! Remove trailing Z

I just assumed that was implied, since it's a requirement for bi-linear filtering. -- The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

Filtering, along with several other techiques, including alpha blending, gives the image a much more "true" appearence. Increased color depth ect.ect. leads to NO COMPARISON. The 3D standard just works much much better, than normally (speed optimized) CPU calculated graphics. Just try to patch a 2D game to 3D !!!!!!!!!! Mose