GP2 UPDATE NEWS

The GP2 UPDATE will be called.......... FORMULA ONE by PSYGNOSIS! Seeya, A Disappointed GP2 Player. ========================================================= Jeff Johnson Tommotek WA P/L PH: 619 409 6500 Digital Geometry Unit FAX: 619 409 9349 Unit 8/10 O'Connor Way WANGARA WESTERN AUSTRALIA 6065 "Unce, tice, fee times a mady" - Buh Weet Sings! =========================================================

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> The GP2 UPDATE will be called.......... > FORMULA ONE by PSYGNOSIS! > Seeya, > A Disappointed GP2 Player. > ========================================================= > Jeff Johnson > Tommotek WA P/L PH: 619 409 6500 > Digital Geometry Unit FAX: 619 409 9349 > Unit 8/10 O'Connor Way > WANGARA > WESTERN AUSTRALIA 6065 > "Unce, tice, fee times a mady" - Buh Weet Sings! > =========================================================

Afraid not (-:

When will it see the light of day?? I'm very anxious... I want more and more and more F1 games!! :))

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>The GP2 UPDATE will be called.......... >FORMULA ONE by PSYGNOSIS! >Seeya, >A Disappointed GP2 Player. >========================================================= >Jeff Johnson >Tommotek WA P/L PH: 619 409 6500 >Digital Geometry Unit FAX: 619 409 9349 >Unit 8/10 O'Connor Way >WANGARA >WESTERN AUSTRALIA 6065 >"Unce, tice, fee times a mady" - Buh Weet Sings! >=========================================================

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> The GP2 UPDATE will be called.......... > FORMULA ONE by PSYGNOSIS! > Seeya, > A Disappointed GP2 Player. > ========================================================= > Jeff Johnson > Tommotek WA P/L PH: 619 409 6500 > Digital Geometry Unit FAX: 619 409 9349 > Unit 8/10 O'Connor Way > WANGARA > WESTERN AUSTRALIA 6065 > "Unce, tice, fee times a mady" - Buh Weet Sings! > =========================================================

Or Starting Grid by Visiware. -- Todo Es Justo En Amor Y Carreras. The Rusty Wallace Miller Genuine Draft stock car, awsome when opened up! GO#2! Mullins Motorsports Inc. http://www.***tron.com/~ddmj

>The GP2 UPDATE will be called.......... >FORMULA ONE by PSYGNOSIS! I hope not. F1 by Psygnosis is a nice arcade game. You like the in-the-cockpit view in GP2?? Tough. You ain't getting it. I won't even start on the so-called "setups" the program claims to offer..... The AI sucks too. Enjoy! The other stuff is for preventing spammage. Thanks!

I think he was talking about the PC version...I think Psygnosis will have a ligitimate contender for the F1-sim crown...and I'm not talking PSX either!! ;) Best Regards, Marc Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA http://members.aol.com/simracing

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>>The GP2 UPDATE will be called.......... >>FORMULA ONE by PSYGNOSIS! >I hope not. F1 by Psygnosis is a nice arcade game. You like the >in-the-cockpit view in GP2?? Tough. You ain't getting it. I won't even >start on the so-called "setups" the program claims to offer..... >The AI sucks too. >Enjoy! >The other stuff is for preventing spammage. Thanks!

have to agree with you, F1 is a good arcade game, but it is not even in the same league as an unfinished GP2. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Derek Murray Fife/Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -

Geez...You guys are still talking about the PSX version, while the PC one hasn't been released yet. ~:-| Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA

>have to agree with you, F1 is a good arcade game, but it is not even in >the same league as an unfinished GP2. Yes it is, if only because the F1 tracks are the 1995 tracks, and they are proportionately correct, not the squished up little suckers in GP2. That goes for track dimensions, and true-to-life graphics of the real thing. I can give you a ton of examples, but I will say that driving around in choppy ole GP2 certainly doesn't look or feel like I'm driving on any Formula One track. Randy

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>Yes it is, if only because the F1 tracks are the 1995 tracks, and they >are proportionately correct, not the squished up little suckers in >GP2. That goes for track dimensions, and true-to-life graphics of the >real thing. I can give you a ton of examples, but I will say that >driving around in choppy ole GP2 certainly doesn't look or feel like >I'm driving on any Formula One track. >Randy

Obviously you dont have a PC thats up to the job. Mind you, I've played it on a DX4/100 and it's still a great simulator. Note I didn't say game. I also have the PSX F1 and after playing every track once, I've never gone back to it. It's just an arcade game and will never be anything else. As for the sounds, they really go for you after a while. Like bees in a bottle. Nothing like real GP cars. The m***is: if you want to play games, stick to the PSX, if you want a real driving experience, then GP2 is still by far the best. The only guys who seem to disagree are those who just cant play GP2 on the PC. It's too difficult for them...... :-)) _____ _ _ _ _ _ _ ___ ___ ___ !_ _! |_| | | | | \| | _ \| __| \ | | | _ | !_! | .` | !_) | _!| !! / !_! !_! !_!\___/!_!\_!___ /!___!_!\_\

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>>Yes it is, if only because the F1 tracks are the 1995 tracks, and they >>are proportionately correct, not the squished up little suckers in >>GP2. That goes for track dimensions, and true-to-life graphics of the >>real thing. I can give you a ton of examples, but I will say that >>driving around in choppy ole GP2 certainly doesn't look or feel like >>I'm driving on any Formula One track. >>Randy >Obviously you dont have a PC thats up to the job.

I have a P-133. What F1 track does GP2 come even close to simulating accurately? Saying F1 is "just an arcade game" is a pretty extremist statement. That would be like me saying that GP2 has so many bugs its unplayable. Neither statement is completely true. The driving model in F1 is darned good, and the fact that the elevation changes and banking of the real tracks are there is excellent, as are the look and driving feel of F1's high speed curves. Try driving Spa in both of them and tell me you think GP2 nailed it anywhere close to accurately -- not. Which is funny because Psygnosis says the recording came from a DAT recorder strapped to an F1 drivers' body? I guess digital just isn't good enough for you. In other words, if you can't make your point effectively, act condescending with the person you disagree with. I've spent way more hours with GP2 than I care to admit, as well as ICR2, ICR2-3D, NASCAR 1 and NASCAR 2. There are those on the group who recognize me from various Internet and Hawaii racing leagues, so please spare me your condescension. GP2's biggest flaw, in my book, is the tracks. Where F1 spent the time and money painstakingly creating the tracks from the official surveyors' guides and video footage, I have NO idea what Crammond uses. I've talked to Bizarre Creations about this and they were puzzled as well. I'd have to say that for modelling an F1 car, GP2 is by far superior to F1. No arguments. But in terms of modelling F1 tracks and F1 races, GP2 can't hold a candle to F1. Its really just that simple...neither one is ideal, but I tend to enjoy the racing more in F1 than GP2. A pity Crammond and Psygnosis couldn't get together and do a 3D-accelerated GP2 using Psygnosis' excellent tracks! Randy

Uh, oh... I noticed that too...FWIW, GP2 can be refered to as a "sim", but to actually label it a "simulator" is going a bit far...Need an example? How about hitting a wall at around 30Kph - little (if any) damage. Sure, there are damage editors out there, but anything like a 3rd- party utility is simply a hack. (Hmmm...getting warm in here...) Also, there isn't any force-feedback (the change in my pockets stays there when I get airborne<g>), and I can't remember hearing anything other than my own engine when playing the game...er..."sim". Plenty of other things I could mention, but the point is, it's still a game. (pzzzzzzzzzzzztttt!!! >>sound of zipper on fire-retardent suit<<) F1 (PSX) wasn't meant to be anything else. I also have it, and I have a good time playing it...It has its place, but when it comes down to the serious stuff... Oh, I dunno about that...Spend much time in a real F1 lately? Keep in mind that I'm not (intentionally) trying to flame, but after several years aboard a Ducatti in AMA, evrything else starts to sound like buzzing bees. Ever wonder why some drivers wear ear-plugs? I wear them so I don't have to listen to an inline-4.<g> If you want a "real" driving experience, then go to Skip Barber, or another driving school - Learn the ropes, then go racing!! :) I'm not going to disagree that GP2 is a great "sim", but I do understand its (and my) limits. No matter what "turns your crank" - whether it's F1 (PSX), GP2, Wipe-Out, or Pac Man - If it feels good, then play it. :) See ya' on the track... ;) Best Regards, L8BRKR Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA [link lost in import]

(Snip) Hmmmmmm....so what would you rather have Randy? A more acurate track or a more acurate car? Personally I'll gladly put up with a few Inaccuracies in the track for the trill that is involved when driving GP2 with my wheel and pedal set-up. GP2 - great Sim!! F1 - great(?) Game Mark McCall --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit The UK Home Automation Web Site... http://www.btinternet.com/~uk.homeautomation/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just about all of them I think. And this was one of the things I liked about GP2. You can watch the F1 races on ESPN2 & know exactly where the cars are. Also, Jaques V. learned many of the track layouts with GP2. ect... IMHO you are wrong here :-)

OK...were comparing apples and oranges here...Let's all wait for the PC version. :) Marc

Ken (the all-knowing, champion of Formula 1 racing simulators) Barrow

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> Obviously you dont have a PC thats up to the job. Mind you, I've > played it on a DX4/100 and it's still a great simulator. Note I > didn't say game. I also have the PSX F1 and after playing every > track once, I've never gone back to it. It's just an arcade game and > will never be anything else. As for the sounds, they really go for > you after a while. Like bees in a bottle. Nothing like real GP cars. > The m***is: if you want to play games, stick to the PSX, if you > want a real driving experience, then GP2 is still by far the best. > The only guys who seem to disagree are those who just cant play GP2 on > the PC. It's too difficult for them...... :-)) > _____ _ _ _ _ _ _ ___ ___ ___ > !_ _! |_| | | | | \| | _ \| __| \ > | | | _ | !_! | .` | !_) | _!| !! / > !_! !_! !_!\___/!_!\_!___ /!___!_!\_\

You havent been*** around in this newsgroup much, have you? GP2 is a pig for framerate on the fastest hardware available and has major bugs to top that! the guys that are disagreeing in here are only pointing put obvious "beta" problems. If your comparing PSX to PC, then I agree with you. The PSX doesnt have the power to calculate the dimensions, physics, informationm etc. as a pentium processor. -DG-

That is the biggest load of bullshit I've heard in decades. Firstly, GP2 is way too easy, and as a matter of fact, I have not even looked at in 6 months now. I have been running GP2 on a 166 pentium, and guess what, I still have to turn most of the graphics off, and heaven forbid that there is a cluster of cars in a bend, then you will really know what slowdown is all about. F1 by psygnosis will be 3d accelerated, and since you are obviously such a potential budding armchair Alain Prost you should probably not buy it, because it is just not realistic enough for an enthusiast of your calibre. All of your concerns with F1 can easily be overlooked when comparing the astronomical shortcomings of GP2. I mean I've watched formula one for years now, and I have yet to see them slow down when there are many cars on the track. If you have ever been to Spa-Francorchamps or Silverstone, you will also be aware that rain is a big factor in F1 racing. So how can GP2 be a real "sim" when it does not mimic rain in the game.. This is just my opinion, and I think you should hold off judgement on F1 until it is released, in the interest of fairness. It is not your fault that you believe you have the elixir of life in GP2, when it was sold to you by a bunch of snake oil salesman.

>>I'd have to say that for modelling an F1 car, >>GP2 is by far superior to F1. No arguments. But in terms of >>modelling F1 tracks and F1 races, GP2 can't hold a candle to F1. >Hmmmmmm....so what would you rather have Randy? A more acurate track >or a more acurate car? I want 'em both. And I own 'em both. I just wish they were in the same package! And part of the fun of having the accurate car is to race on the accurate track, otherwise why bother providing the F1 tracks? If the tracks are all screwed up so badly you can't drive them anywhere near the way you'd drive the real thing, some of value the accuracy in the car physics goes right out the window. The marriage to Formula One is broken. A good part of the thrill is high speed sweeping high-G turns in an F1 car. Unfortunately, most of those are gone because the tracks are so screwed up. Note Brazil, for example. Look at how you have to crawl through the turns in 1st (or 2nd at most) gear. Compare that to the way the real cars go around them. Its not the car physics that are wrong, its the bogus track design. Randy

>> What F1 track does GP2 come even close to simulating accurately? >Just about all of them I think. And this was one of the things I liked >about GP2. It was one of the things I thought I liked about GP2 as well, until I had Formula One to compare it with. Yes, but you can do that in both games. Knowing that at the end of such and such straight there is a certain kind of corner is all well and good, but if the straight leading up to it is the wrong speed and the car can't corner it at the same speed as the F1 car, something is lost. Yes, he did. I read every single shred of text written about JV's experiences, and it became increasingly clear that Jacques didn't want too much read into what he did. He made distinct reference in one of his interviews to the fact that the purpose of the game was to simply "find out what's coming up next". For this, GP2, is just fine. If you've never driven Spa before (which he hadn't), GP2 will readily answer the question "what's coming up next". But then again, so will Formula One/PSX, and the latter will do it far better. You have the right to your opinion, but having spent ample time in both games, and having discussed with Bizarre Creations the issue of track accuracy specifically as compared to GP2, I'm convinced that Bizarre got it right track-wise. Their tracks are up to date per 1995 (unlike 1994's tracks in GP2, most notably the differences in tracks like Imola), and they exhibit a stunning degree of accuracy in ways that Crammond didn't or couldn't do, such as the track banking coming onto the front straight in Brazil, as well as the altitude changes on that track, the bump coming down from *** square in Monte Carlo, the banking and elevation changes in the chicanes in Hockenheim...its all done extraordinarily accurately, because of the fact that Bizarre used the surveyors charts and hours and hours of video footage to get the job done right. I've gone to the trouble of racing a track on one on my TV, writing down split times and speeds, and then coming down and comparing the same track on GP2, and while the GP2 cars are more accurate from an acceleration and top-speed standpoint, F1 models the way the actual track is driven far better, because the tracks are simply more accurate, not the scrunched up, flattened things we get in GP2. Don't get me wrong -- I love both of these games, but I'm not so arrogant as to look down my nose at F1, just because its a Playstation game. Randy

> A good part of the thrill is high speed sweeping high-G turns in an F1 > car. Unfortunately, most of those are gone because the tracks are so > screwed up. Note Brazil, for example. Look at how you have to crawl > through the turns in 1st (or 2nd at most) gear. Compare that to the > way the real cars go around them. Its not the car physics that are > wrong, its the bogus track design. I still disagree. After I have ran around a track in GP2, I was amazed that the *REAL* drivers were using the same gears & wingsettings as I found that I needed. ie, What the game showed me was what the real teams & drivers did. For the most part I think GP2's tracks are far better than you make them out to be. Greg

Thanks for the reply. Oh I thought you were referring to POWER F1... I was about ready to re-install the demo (which I thought sucked).

GP2 is too easy? Well, why don't you download an editor and make the AI cars faster? If GP2 is too slow on your computer, then it's your computer that's at fault, get a more powerful one; you'll need one soon anyway with the amount of next generation games! What's more, if we wanted to play arcade games we'd go to an arcade. Yeah, and I wonder how many F1 cars feel like they do in Psygnosis' F1. Not that it's a bad game, but it's sure unrealistic, far more so than GP2. As for rain, big deal... no-one knows how to drive fast in the rain anyway, and everyone would be bored of it after a couple of weeks. Well, I have played F1 on the PSX, and I don't think it's half as much fun as GP2. It's like comparing Wolfenstein to Quake! I know what I like, and GP2 I like! Sorry Mr. Bear, but I don't agree with you. Regards, -- Dave Bowers

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> >That is the biggest load of bullshit I've heard in decades. Firstly, GP2 > >is way too easy, and as a matter of fact, I have not even looked at in 6 > >months now. I have been running GP2 on a 166 pentium, and guess what, I > >still have to turn most of the graphics off, and heaven forbid that there > >is a cluster of cars in a bend, then you will really know what slowdown is > >all about. F1 by psygnosis will be 3d accelerated, and since you are > >obviously such a potential budding armchair Alain Prost you should > >probably not buy it, because it is just not realistic enough for an > >enthusiast of your calibre. > GP2 is too easy? Well, why don't you download an editor and make the AI > cars faster?

yeah, thats the answer! As usual, lets load a hex "freagin" editor to run this sim "realistically"! get real!! What a joke, sorry but you asked for the heat with this babble! Yeah, get something faster than one of the fastest computers out there to run this "insult" of a SIM. Telling someone they need to upgrade from a 166 to a 200 to get this "pig" of a SIM to run fast enough is a not an excuse to defend this FAR from complete sim! In other words, "shut the *** up"! I'd rather play an arcade game than watching "slow motion" on my Pent 200mmx! Which is what GP2 calculates on the fastest pent avalable! We're looking for realism not replays of SUPER-SLOW-MOTION! Why dont you actually watch a F1 race sometime and see that rain plays a part in about 25% of all F1 races on average in a season. Comparing Dogshit to GP2 if fair enough, I would rather play Pole position at the local "outdated" arcade than try to figure out why GP2 wont run on the fastest hardware(this is my "Humble opinion)! I know what quality is and I know when a software company promises something and not half of the hipe is reality, then I dont agree with you Mr. Bowers! (as usual) -David Gary-

> = > way the actual track is driven far better, because the tracks are > simply more accurate, not the scrunched up, flattened things we get in > GP2. I think you're gonna be in for a surprise on this one. At least when/if a= n update/patch comes out. -- = Ren=E9 van Lobberegt, The Netherlands. http://www1.tip.nl/users/t752096/index.html

> >Firstly, GP2 > >is way too easy, . > I know what I like, and GP2 I like! > Sorry Mr. Bear, but I don't agree with you. > Regards, > -- > Dave Bowers I'm with you Dave !! Despite its shortcomings anyone who doesn't find GP2 an exhilarating challenge racing at unaided ace level probably hasn't put in enough laps !! <grin> Too easy Mr. Gulubear ! Yeah, Right !! :-) Phil Abel -- "Don't look back - they may be gaining on you !!" ************************************************** http://www.magna.com.au/~mohair/

..... If you have ever been to Spa-Francorchamps or Silverstone, you will also be aware that rain is a big factor in F1 racing. So how can GP2 be a real "sim" when it does not mimic rain in the game.. << GP1 had rain in it and I dare say that just about nobody used it. Certainly the GP1 racing league it which I participated didn't. And it had top drivers that'd blow the socks of a whirlwind. Frankly I wouldn't like to see a simple implementation of rain in GP2. That is - raining all the time from beginning to end. For rain to be really desirable it needs to be very well simulated. Something that no one has ever done. IMO, a worthwhile rain weekend would have to include... - varying amounts of rain and sunshine over the race weekend - varying amounts of rain and sunshine during the race period - a dry line effect during sunshine breaks - a weather forecaster to help with your strategy ..... and not essential but desirable ... - a less-traction effect on the ***ised dry-weather racing line All of the above is necessary IMHO to produce a worthwhile rainy day race weekend experience. Simply having a race run in downpour from beginning to end is a waste of time, and is still somewhat unrealistic. The most interesting and challenging thing about a rain affected weekend is the strategy. The actually racing can be ***ly awful. Phillip McNelley http://www.powerup.com.au/~philmak/

I would be very surprised when/if a patch comes out... ;) Marc