OverRated Sim"s and Games.

PCGamer is a BS magazine, lots of fluff and very little usable info. I doubt if PCG plays a game more than a few times before "reviewing" it. The only decent mass-market mags are CGW and Strategy Plus. IMHO. ^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^% AWDIWO Racing Inc. Pty. Ltd. Etc. "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing" %^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^

Reading the review of GP2 in PC gamer. Those guys gave it a 95% rating!!!! Said " It is the most advanced sim to date". Among other stupid comments. As hardware goes they recommend a P-100. hehe, Duuuu. I have noticed that this mag overrates MANY games and hardware for fear of losing their Advertisers I suppose. Also some of these mags are owned by game companies. Most Game Mag's are guilty of this Overrating policy so don't trust what you read. Next Generation Mag seems to stand out from this I think. TRY BEFORE YOU BUY!!!! I am sick of being ripped off as are many millions of others. Time to boycott?

I'm not one to judge whether PC Gamer's crew can hit the mark or not, but I can assure you that GP2 does run well on a P100 using a Diamond Stealth 64...The game performs even better since the installstion of a Rendition card...not much better, but a little. Best Regards, Marc Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA http://members.aol.com/simracing

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> Reading the review of GP2 in PC gamer. Those guys gave it a 95% rating!!!! > Said " It is the most advanced sim to date". Among other stupid comments. > As hardware goes they recommend a P-100. hehe, Duuuu. > I have noticed that this mag overrates MANY games and hardware for fear of > losing > their Advertisers I suppose. Also some of these mags are owned by game > companies.

From my experience reading PC Gamer and Computer *** World, PC Gamer provides reviews that are slightly less objective and slightly more emotionally biased reviews. CGW provides the most objective and scientific game reviews. So... this is not necessarily a bad thing. PC Gamer tells me if I may have a strong reaction to a game and say to myself "This is a truly killer game..." while CGW tells me if a game has all the proper components, polish, and groundbreaking features to be a great game. The reviews are totally different oftentimes and I, for one, appreciate differing perspectives. BTW, CGW has given five stars to games that are no longer on my harddrive because I never got hooked on them. PC Gamer often tells me if I can get really hooked on a game totally based solely on esthetic merit. Don't badmouth PC Gamer because you don't agree with some of their reviews. Remember that a game review is only one person's personal opinion. And opinions are opinions. I don't think PC Gamer breaches ethics to maintain advertising. This magazine is such a major player in the *** world that it doesn't have to... -- Matt Lewis

> Reading the review of GP2 in PC gamer. Those guys gave it a 95% rating!!!! > Said " It is the most advanced sim to date". Among other stupid comments. You seem to have all the inside information necessary to make an authoritative analysis. So what's the most advanced sim out there, chief? Maybe you are sick for no apparent reason, you know, _just_ sick? I'll bet there are millions out there in a similar situation, as you so profoundly implied. One never knows. Cheers! -- Terje Wold Johansen --- "I am your inferior superior" - O.W. ---

GP2 works fine with my P90. I dont drive in SVGA but I can get 23fps in VGA with all but sky detail on! I reckon PC Gamer over rated it because they had a prerelease copy, and were told it would feature weather and IPX support. Because of this they had to kind of estimate a score, and to be honest, if it had weather and IPX I'd have given it 95%!! -- Dave Bowers

They used to be my favorite magazine, but lately I've also noticed that PC Gamer isn't doing a very good job. The amount of adverti***t is increasing, while the number of good reviews and usable info is decreasing. They are even getting lazy with their demo CD's.

> >Reading the review of GP2 in PC gamer. Those guys gave it a 95% rating!!!! > >Said " It is the most advanced sim to date". Among other stupid comments. > >As hardware goes they recommend a P-100. hehe, Duuuu. > >I have noticed that this mag overrates MANY games and hardware for fear of > >losing > >their Advertisers I suppose. This is exactly why people really should wait after the sim has already come out and read the news group before buying any new sim. Your exactly right "Idontknow"! PC gamer is making a killing off of their advertisments, hell their whole magazine is one big catalog for advertisments! Its a disapointment when a great magazine goes to shit because someone in management or maybe event the marketing director wants a new Lexus. PC gamer used to be great, but now for the past year their magazine has gotten full of adverti***ts, some of which we see over and over. Arent catalogs are usually made free to the public?! After seeing how many pages of advertising and how bias the reviews are getting. Ill stick to the smaller magazine companies to get the "real" scoop. I read that review on GP2 and I just cant see how in the hell some reviewer gave this sim that kinda score! I wonder if it has something to do with the size of Microprose's bank-account. How can you review something thats as incomplete as GP2 and then even give it any rating, much less a 95%?!! Again we're in a day and age where money talks and the "truth" walks! The bullshit really smells when you uncover it! Well heres my review to the "reviewer" at PC gamer: a flat ***ing %0 Thought for the day: Grab the CD that comes with PC gamer and stick it in the sleeve of a magazine that doesnt kiss ass to their advertisers. Then you'll have your moneys worth.

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> GP2 works fine with my P90. I dont drive in SVGA but I can get 23fps in > VGA with all but sky detail on! > I reckon PC Gamer over rated it because they had a prerelease copy, and > were told it would feature weather and IPX support. Because of this they > had to kind of estimate a score, and to be honest, if it had weather and > IPX I'd have given it 95%!! > -- > Dave Bowers

Sorry Dave, but the majority of guys that spent a couple of grand on a pent comp, dont settle for VGA. All the other sims run fine on anything higher that a p100 and GP2 runs like shit in SVGA. Either way we're in a day and age of SVGA. If you dont mind the way VGA looks then go out and get yourself a Playstation. Their a hell of a lot cheaper! -DG-

To M.David Gary and M.Aw'Cmon? and everyone that is complaining about a simulation called GP2. I got a question to ask you! 1st Are you always complaining about every little things in life? 2nd Instead of saying I am frustrated because my 3000$ pentium can't take the load and those BIG companies have the OBLIGATION to GIVE me the simulation I ever wanted. Why not thinking about some overclocking? Why not talking about the AI of GP2? The real problem is that M.Gary is very frustrated because he bought a computer and he can not run every F****** games that exist with full load graphics. You should know that the 1st day you bought your PC it was already obsolete and that is life TOUGH LUCK!!! I'm not saying that GP2 is perfect it is not but there's no other competitive F1 sims on the market right now and for the others like NFS,Screamers the AI is to arcadish and for Icr,Icr2 and N2 it's to often straight turn left straight turn left and so on. We all know the goods and bads of GP2 but I could tell you that I got all those sims and the one that I got the most fun of is GP2 because it gots the best AI,Graphics and also this one is going to live long (a lot more than our Pentium's) If you know that much M.Gary why you don't complete that so incomplete game,why not even just painting a simple car?Or maybe just selling your very expensive PC to buy one in seperate parts so it would be a lot cheaper for you??? This letter was only to say that there is a lot of people who would like a lot of features to be adjusted or patched for GP2 but what can we do apart complaining,Do you think seriously that a couple of complaints and Mr Microprose will start building GP3 NO WAY!!!Yes he wanted his Lexus and if it was yourself M.Gary!!!THIS IS LIFE To all the people who likes GP2 Enjoy it and see ya in Australia GSXRR Way to go Jacques!!!

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> To M.David Gary and M.Aw'Cmon? and everyone that is complaining about a > simulation called GP2. > I got a question to ask you! > 1st Are you always complaining about every little things in life? > 2nd Instead of saying I am frustrated because my 3000$ pentium can't > take the load and > those BIG companies have the OBLIGATION to GIVE me the simulation I ever > wanted. > Why not thinking about some overclocking? > Why not talking about the AI of GP2? > The real problem is that M.Gary is very frustrated because he bought a > computer and he > can not run every F****** games that exist with full load graphics. > You should know that the 1st day you bought your PC it was already > obsolete and that is > life TOUGH LUCK!!! > I'm not saying that GP2 is perfect it is not but there's no other > competitive F1 sims > on the market right now and for the others like NFS,Screamers the AI is > to arcadish and > for Icr,Icr2 and N2 it's to often straight turn left straight turn left > and so on. > We all know the goods and bads of GP2 but I could tell you that I got > all those sims and > the one that I got the most fun of is GP2 because it gots the best > AI,Graphics and also > this one is going to live long (a lot more than our Pentium's) > If you know that much M.Gary why you don't complete that so incomplete > game,why not even > just painting a simple car?Or maybe just selling your very expensive PC > to buy one in seperate parts so it would be a lot cheaper for you??? > This letter was only to say that there is a lot of people who would like > a lot of features to be adjusted or patched for GP2 but what can we do > apart complaining,Do you > think seriously that a couple of complaints and Mr Microprose will start > building GP3 > NO WAY!!!Yes he wanted his Lexus and if it was yourself M.Gary!!!THIS IS > LIFE > To all the people who likes GP2 Enjoy it and see ya in Australia > GSXRR Way to go Jacques!!! > To M.David Gary and M.Aw'Cmon? and everyone that is complaining about a > simulation called GP2.

Complaining is not the point, stating the facts are. I am not posting my articles to target people who already own GP2, but the people who are thinking about buying it. Fortunately for my time's sake this excludes you. shoot.... Read above I thought you stated you had A question for me. Im trying to figure out what your saying here. You are not English speaking, are you?. I think your trying to ask me, why I dont overclock my prossessor. If thats the case, I dont start overheating and straining my CPU because Geoff Crammond's design team can't create a decent SIM engine that will run efficiently on the fastest hardware to date. Is this the only thing you base your SIMS on. This game is incomplete, period. The graphics and IA in this SIM are great, but these are clouded by the all the things that are unfinished in this SIM. Of the newest and best sims to date, N2, ICR2, N1, F22 runs fluid as water on my system and their graphics stand alone compared to GP2 because of their ENGINE. Theres time for compromise and then theres time for having to put up with Bullshit! I can see that you are someone that will buy anything. It sounds like your a "newbie" to this computer thing and really dont have any "real" time in the seat. I wouldnt mind selling you a car some time. Hmmmm, Competitive? Theres not ANY other F1 sims on the market right now. Well if you like GP2 and have fun then thats what its all about! I, on the other hand can smell bullshit, no matter how much icing you put on it. If you like it so much then why would you be wasting your time writing me? I built my computer and basically you sound like you've lost any hope that would defend the quality and integrity of GP2, by just blatenately spouting off drivel. Really? Where in this letter was it only to say that? I havent read one thing above that said that. I think you need to practice a little more with you cutting and pasting. but what can we do What can we do?! hmmmmmmm,...how about not buy unfinished products. No, but a couple of million may. The Bottm line is: With NO multi-player option, NO sound, NO acceptable framerate, NO utilities, NO tech support, NO..........nothin, this game should be sold for nothin! Its a ripp off!!...nuff said. -DG-

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>All the other sims run fine on anything higher that a p100 and GP2 runs >like >shit in SVGA. Either way we're in a day and age of SVGA. If you dont >mind the way VGA >looks then go out and get yourself a Playstation. Their a hell of a lot >cheaper! >-DG-

Sorry David, not a single driving sim runs fine in SVGA on a P200. Screamer comes close, but this is hardly a sim. Can you actually NAME a game that runs very smooth in SVGA with full graphics on "anything higher than a P100"? Your remark about the PlayStation shows your ignorance. I guess you've never seen a modern PlayStation game. The resolution, graphics (and also framerate) of Destruction Derby 2 or Tekken 2 for example are far better than what can be achieved with the fastest SVGA card on a PC. Filip Humble

Well, there is tech support, a multiplayer option (modem play at least), there is sound (you can't hear the other cars, but it is still being debated whether drivers can hear other cars or not. I think they can. Damon Hill said that he heard Berger when he was almost beside him at Suzuka), there are lots of utilities (but not from Spectrum Holobyte). The frame rate isn't very good, and I don't like it that a lot of events in a race are "pre-programmed" (You can go to a certain race a couple of times, and more than likely the same car will have the same failure or accident on the same lap that it had the previous races. I've gone to Canada a couple of times, and I always got an electrical failure on lap 22.) Although I think that MicroProse could have done A LOT better on this one, but I still like Gp2.

Have you tried Rendition ICR2-3D? And maybe you should update your knowledge of PC video cards. ;) Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking... Did he complain to five or six postmasters last month? Now, you must ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you, punk?

Re: GP2 This isn't true. I compete in the Little Formula Racing Series (LFRS) and always run two to three practice races prior to running my actual race. Each race on the same track has been VERY different - who wins the race, who wins pole, who has mechanical failure, etc. It IS determined, however, at the start of a particular GAME which cars will have mechanical failure. So, for example, if you save a game after qualifying but prior to starting the actual race, then run the race and have an engine failure, if you restart the game from that save, you will still have engine failure on the same lap. However, if you were to select "race again on the same circuit", restarting the entire event, it is highly unlikely that a car would experience the same failure. I suspect this is what you experienced (restarting a race from a save rather than restarting the entire event). If not, it must have been a VERY rare coincidence. -- ************************************************************************ David A. Ewing Interleaf - Boulder Lab ************************************************************************

I can think of one. The original NFS works just fine in SVGA mode with high detail on my P133. Doesn't look choppy at all.

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> >All the other sims run fine on anything higher that a p100 and GP2 runs > >like > >shit in SVGA. Either way we're in a day and age of SVGA. If you dont > >mind the way VGA > >looks then go out and get yourself a Playstation. Their a hell of a lot > >cheaper! > >-DG- > Sorry David, not a single driving sim runs fine in SVGA on a P200. > Screamer comes close, but this is hardly a sim. Can you actually NAME > a game that runs very smooth in SVGA with full graphics on "anything > higher than a P100"?

Sure! ICR2, Nascar1 and N2 run very fluid with ALL graphics on! > Your remark about the PlayStation shows your ignorance. I guess you've > never seen a modern PlayStation game. The resolution, graphics (and > also framerate) of Destruction Derby 2 or Tekken 2 for example are far > better than what can be achieved with the fastest SVGA card on a PC. > Filip Humble I OWN a play station. All of its games that I've played, including DD and T2 are "hollow" compared to most PC based games. What the hell is a SVGA card anyway? You mean a video card? What does that have to do with SVGA? -DG-

I think that is what happened. I had to re-load the race because the electrics failed and I was stuck in first gear. A back marker hit me and slammed me into the wall. I couldn't go anywhere because I couldn't put the car in reverse. It was annoying.

: Re: GP2 : > ... I don't like it that a lot of events in a race are : >"pre-programmed" (You can go to a certain race a couple of times, and more : >than likely the same car will have the same failure or accident on the : >same lap that it had the previous races. I've gone to Canada a couple of : >times, and I always got an electrical failure on lap 22.) : This isn't true. I compete in the Little Formula Racing Series : (LFRS) and always run two to three practice races prior to running : my actual race. Each race on the same track has been VERY different - : who wins the race, who wins pole, who has mechanical failure, etc. : It IS determined, however, at the start of a particular GAME which : cars will have mechanical failure. So, for example, if you save : a game after qualifying but prior to starting the actual race, : then run the race and have an engine failure, if you restart : the game from that save, you will still have engine failure on : the same lap. However, if you were to select "race again on the : same circuit", restarting the entire event, it is highly unlikely : that a car would experience the same failure. : I suspect this is what you experienced (restarting a race from a save : rather than restarting the entire event). If not, it must have been : a VERY rare coincidence. : -- : ************************************************************************ : David A. Ewing Interleaf - Boulder Lab : ************************************************************************

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> > Your remark about the PlayStation shows your ignorance. I guess you've > > never seen a modern PlayStation game. The resolution, graphics (and > > also framerate) of Destruction Derby 2 or Tekken 2 for example are far > > better than what can be achieved with the fastest SVGA card on a PC. > > Filip Humble > I OWN a play station. All of its games that I've played, including DD > and T2 are "hollow" > compared to most PC based games. What the hell is a SVGA card anyway? > You mean a video card? > What does that have to do with SVGA? > > -DG-

A television operates at a very low resolution, similar to VGA graphics on a PC. PC's can run at much higher resolutions in SVGA and offer much crisper pictures. The playstation uses dedicated 3D hardware graphics acceleration. This works well, but not nearly as well as 3D video cards can run on a PC. There is no comparison. I don't want to rekindle the PC/console debate (please...NO!!). I just am trying to clear up the information of television resolution in comparison to PC resolution. PC graphics can be much sharper (read: higher resolution) and much faster (framerates) than is possible on the playstation when using 3D accelerated video hardware. This is simply objective information. -- Matt Lewis

..... If thats the David, you have all the right in the world NOT to like GP2. But stop lying: the game can be played fluently in VGA with ALL details on (maybe some mirror textures off, but that's something for the future) on a P100. In SVGA, it can be played fluently on a level of detail that other sims call "maximum detail". Explain to me how you can blame Crammond for putting in some extras to lengthen the sim's life? On "the fastest hardware", you can get >20fps in SVGA with all but some minor textures enabled. Don't whine about sky texture, because that's obviously something for the future as well. You know, your posts would be taken much more seriously if you just tried *a little* to let reason prevail. JH =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When everything else failed, we can still become im- mortal by making an enormous blunder.... John Kenneth Galbraith =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

.... and I don't like it that a lot of events in a race are As with Gp1, every start of a race is unique. Only when you start several races from the same saved game (of the START), you will get exactly the same events. JH =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When everything else failed, we can still become im- mortal by making an enormous blunder.... John Kenneth Galbraith =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

This is not completely true. Check it: every indivual START OF A RACE is unique. In other words: if you just restart from a game saved at the end of qualifying or pre-race practice, you will have unique races. JH =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When everything else failed, we can still become im- mortal by making an enormous blunder.... John Kenneth Galbraith =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I think that Gp2 has the best VGA mode I have seen. It runs smoothly with almost maximum details at several tracks, but it does get very slow at places like Hungary and Monaca even with a lot of detail turned off. I think it should get fun in about half a year to a year, though, when there are faster computers and more people can afford P200's.

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> > > Your remark about the PlayStation shows your ignorance. I guess you've > > > never seen a modern PlayStation game. The resolution, graphics (and > > > also framerate) of Destruction Derby 2 or Tekken 2 for example are far > > > better than what can be achieved with the fastest SVGA card on a PC. > > > Filip Humble > > I OWN a play station. All of its games that I've played, including DD > > and T2 are "hollow" > > compared to most PC based games. What the hell is a SVGA card anyway? > > You mean a video card? > > What does that have to do with SVGA? > > > -DG- > A television operates at a very low resolution, similar to VGA graphics > on a PC. PC's can run at much higher resolutions in SVGA and offer much > crisper pictures. > The playstation uses dedicated 3D hardware graphics acceleration. This > works well, but not nearly as well as 3D video cards can run on a PC. > There is no comparison. > I don't want to rekindle the PC/console debate (please...NO!!). I just > am trying to clear up the information of television resolution in > comparison to PC resolution. PC graphics can be much sharper (read: > higher resolution) and much faster (framerates) than is possible on the > playstation when using 3D accelerated video hardware. This is simply > objective information. > -- > Matt Lewis

Your absolutly right Matt I have a PSC06 converter that converts my computer's frequency to that of my 60" big screen. I convert it and run N2 and ICR2 in SVGA mode but its still not nearly as clear as a computer monitor or "true" SVGA even though when i convert it and run N2 or ICR2 in VGA mode it makes a huge difference in graphic quality. If you would like to see my setup on the bigscreen just email me and request it. I have built a monocoupe sim and race N2 and ICR2 on it. My wife doesnt like it too much because it takes up most of the livin room but I make sure its put up before she gets home!(grin) -David Gary-

>Sure! ICR2, Nascar1 and N2 run very fluid with ALL graphics on! I hope you are ironic, but I'm afraid you're not. I have tried N1 (special Matrox accelared version) and N2 on my 200, don't tell me they run fluid with all graphics on! Although I noticed before that some of you are easily satisfied when it comes to framerate: I've read posts here on this newsgroup were one calls 15 fps (fif***!) playable and 20 fps very smooth. Well I don't. A smooth framerate is 25 fps, not less! You're right about that, but if you ever compared DD2 on the PC and the PlayStation, you can't deny that the PlayStation version looks much better (lightsourcing on the cars for example). Now I never said that the TV has a higher resolution than a monitor. My point was that in order to play games on a PC with the same sense of speed (framerate) as on a PlayStation, you'll have to play it in VGA, not SVGA, and thereby the resolution will be less than on a TV. Filip Humble

Who owns a P200

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> You're right about that, but if you ever compared DD2 on the PC and > the PlayStation, you can't deny that the PlayStation version looks > much better (lightsourcing on the cars for example). > Now I never said that the TV has a higher resolution than a monitor. > My point was that in order to play games on a PC with the same sense > of speed (framerate) as on a PlayStation, you'll have to play it in > VGA, not SVGA, and thereby the resolution will be less than on a TV. > Filip Humble

REPLY: No what you need to do next is buy a verite based video card. You already have a bundle in your P200, go out and do yourself a favor and get the verite board. Thank me later. It will be more like 30+ with all features on including filtering. Q.B.M.

This is a response to an older post. The older post first: An interesting perspective, considering both Next Generation and PC Gamer are run by the same company, Imagine Publishing. "Also some of these mags are owned by game companies." Imagine Publishing is hardly owned by a game company. It's owned by its founder, Chris Anderson, who before founding Imagine here in the US created Future Publishing in the UK. And since I sit right across the aisle from Next Generation, and I do a lot of *** PC reviews for them, I can assure you, there is no Great ***/Advertiser Influence, despite the many strange postings on these newsgroups. Jason Bates PC Gamer

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:07:28 +0000, Dave Bowers >GP2 works fine with my P90. I dont drive in SVGA but I can get 23fps in >VGA with all but sky detail on! >I reckon PC Gamer over rated it because they had a prerelease copy, and >were told it would feature weather and IPX support. Because of this they >had to kind of estimate a score, and to be honest, if it had weather and >IPX I'd have given it 95%!! Actually, we reviewed the final, boxed version of GP2. In fact, we specifically listed as one of the game's "Lows" that it doesn't include network support for multi-player racing. We don't base our reviews on features that the game's publisher says the game will have when it's released in retail channels. Too many *** magazines (including PC Gamer, in earlier days) have been burned by that. Dan Bennett Editor, PC Gamer

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:07:28 +0000, Dave Bowers >GP2 works fine with my P90. I dont drive in SVGA but I can get 23fps in >VGA with all but sky detail on! >I reckon PC Gamer over rated it because they had a prerelease copy, and >were told it would feature weather and IPX support. Because of this they >had to kind of estimate a score, and to be honest, if it had weather and >IPX I'd have given it 95%!! Actually, we reviewed the final, boxed version of GP2. In fact, we specifically listed as one of the game's "Lows" that it doesn't include network support for multi-player racing. Dan Bennett Editor, PC Gamer

Thank you for replying to or concerns Mr Bennett. Your response is much more "informative" than your employee Jason Bates "As a matter of fact" "Mr bigshot" post. No offence meant Mr Bates but a person in your position should expect some critisism and reply properly. That said.. Why and who gave GP2 such a Overrated "IMO" rating. 95%, thats close to perfection. No computer made can run that thing properly. Not to mention all the bugs and lousy modem problems. Then there is the issue of Microprose leaving it to die. "No updates" ever. Perhaps you would consider bringing up the issue in your mag? You could call it "Microprose's lousy game and customer support". Microprose sold well over half a million copies of that game and I bet most of those people are not real happy with it. You may also want to reply about the issue of so much advertising in your mag. Thank you for yor time. Mr Bill. A fake name and email Im a usin, cause viruses n bombs Im sick of gettin. --------------------------------------------------------------------- An interesting perspective, considering both Next Generation and PC Gamer are run by the same company, Imagine Publishing. "Also some of these mags are owned by game companies." Imagine Publishing is hardly owned by a game company. It's owned by its founder, Chris Anderson, who before founding Imagine here in the US created Future Publishing in the UK. And since I sit right across the aisle from Next Generation, and I do a lot of *** PC reviews for them, I can assure you, there is no Great ***/Advertiser Influence, despite the many strange postings on these newsgroups. Jason Bates PC Gamer ----------------------------------------------------

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> On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:07:28 +0000, Dave Bowers > >GP2 works fine with my P90. I dont drive in SVGA but I can get 23fps in > >VGA with all but sky detail on! > >I reckon PC Gamer over rated it because they had a prerelease copy, and > >were told it would feature weather and IPX support. Because of this they > >had to kind of estimate a score, and to be honest, if it had weather and > >IPX I'd have given it 95%!! > Actually, we reviewed the final, boxed version of GP2. In fact, we > specifically listed as one of the game's "Lows" that it doesn't > include network support for multi-player racing.

We don't base our reviews on features that the game's publisher says the game will have when it's released in retail channels. Too many *** magazines (including PC Gamer, in earlier days) have been burned by that.

I reviewed GP2, and I have to say I didn't run into any of those problems in hours of playing it at home and at the office. As for the speed of the game -- maybe it was the ET6000-based video card I was using, or maybe I just have a more generous definition of "smooth" than some other gamers (it's a pretty subjective thing, after all) -- but GP2 ran smoothly on the P120 I was using at the time, even in SVGA with most of the details turned on. Well, that's an issue I have no control over, but I'll address it as best I can. I've seen a few people complaining about how recent issues of PCG have had more than 50 percent ads -- but the fact is that the magazine has almost always been more than 50 percent ads. In fact, that's not at all uncommon in magazine publishing -- the bean-counters will tell you it has to do with the cost of producing an issue; every page that doesn't bring revenue in (i.e., every editorial page) has to be "bought" by a number of pages that do bring in revenue (ad pages). This becomes more and more important as the size of the magazine grows (a bigger issue doesn't just mean more paper and ink; it means exponentially higher shipping and distribution costs, too). Of course, if we were People or Entertainment Weekly, we'd just charge five-figure sums for every page of advertising -- that'd bring the ad-to-edit ratio way down. But -- thank God -- we're not People or Entertainment Weekly. Unfortunately, the ads seem to become a lot more noticeable (and, to some readers, annoying) as the overall page count climbs toward 300. Every year, we get a temporary increase in complaints about ads -- it starts shortly after the November issue hits the stands and tapers off shortly after the January issue is released. (Those are the big holiday issues, of course, in which every game company wants to advertise heavily, and we have to bust our buns to fill the editorial pages in between.) If I could wish for the people who complain about the ads in PC Gamer to notice one thing, it would be this: Every time our ad count has increased, so has our editorial-page count. If December's 444-page issue only had as many editorial pages as the previous month's 348-page issue, I could understand people complaining that PCG was being overrun by ads. They'd be right. But it didn't just have more ads than we've ever had before; it had more editorial pages (by far) than we've ever had in a single issue. Assuming you stayed awake through that long-winded explanation, thanks for bearing with me. db

> I reviewed GP2, and I have to say I didn't run into any of those > problems in hours of playing it at home and at the office. Dan Its really hard to see how you gave GP2 the rating you did. I wish you coulda been my history teacher back in high school(grin)! The bottom line is that GP2 should NOT have been released in the "beta" condition it was in. I did not see any critisism at all in your article which insults alot of people's intellegence. I wonder how someone in your postition can give such high ratings to a SIM that has so many flaws and is far from complete. Since I am in the advertising field I can analyze it fairly simple. The fact of the matter is in BIG business you DONT bite the hand that feeds you. Microprose is a very large company and advertises frenquently in PCG. Because of this, you have to be shallow in your reviews of their software. But here you still try to portray GP2 as a quality sim. This is where my respect for PCG's competencey comes to a screenching halt. How can you as a reviewer say you didnt find anything wrong with this software?! Thats unbelievable to me! How did you get your job? Did you know someone or have you just not reviewed racing simulations for long? If you've visited this newsgroup frequently, which it sounds like you havent, then you can see that 99% of the posts in here are "help me" questions on how to get GP2 to run right and bug complaints. Again this questions your competencey as a reviewer. Is PCG taking applications? Generous?! How can you be generous as a reviewer?! A reviewer is a CRITIC! That means you CRITIQUE the software. I am astonished the more I read! I wont comment too much on the advertising end of it. I really dont care how many advertising pages PCG adds to their magazine as long as the ratio doesnt rise above 50%. Like I said I make my livelyhood in this field and understand publishing and press costs, even though with the adds compaired to information ratio PCG prints, the executives arent starving by any means. Not to mention high bonuses for top advertising executives. I am sure your boss doesnt drive a volkswagon. Fortunately people magazine can truly critique events they review in their magazine because their not knocking heads with their advertisers Well with a comment like "busting buns" to fill edit***pages opens up the truth to why your reviews are far from complete and unsatisfactory. Again the comment above explains why your review of GP2 is so inefficient. Your basically saying you were rushed by release pressure. When in fact if you hired "***" help during the holidays(like most Business) then you would not have to gamble the integrity of PCG's ruputation for quality. But thats not the case. Instead you have been rushed in your reviews and that does not fly with my decision to purchase quality information, instead, it seems the truth is in this newsgroup because most of these serious racing sim fanatics are not bound by release pressures and "heat" from their advertisers. Therefore it is not your fault. Dan, I appreciate your replying to this group. I am grateful for your honesty You have opened alot of our eyes as to why your review was so off the wall. Unfortunately my subscription to PCG will be terminated shortly. Maybe in a perfect world *** magazines could *** their reviews out specifically to people who have spent countless hours on certain types of games and sims. But this is not a perfect world and BIG business is governed by politics and the public is who pays for it. I am not blaming you for your actions. I have a good idea what type of "leash" you are on in your employment. If I had been in your postion I would have been fired the first day because I would truly critique these games. As for GP2, I would have gutted it!! -David Gary-

OK, sorry about that, it must have been another mag who reviewed a prerelease version (but I'm not mentioning any names now :) ) Regards, -- Dave Bowers

I see your point as to how in a perfect world, Dan Bennett would have spent 24/7 for 2 months playing GP2 before reviewing the game. I also see how he should have considered the use of options and features from every possible perspective before claiming that it is so great..... But, I must point something out here. While we get the nitty-gritty on racing sims here is r.a.s., the average computer game reviewer is not NEARLY as fanatical about racing and racing games as the members of this newsgroup. Even many of those half million or so who bought GP2 play it much more casually than we do. Perhaps Dan likes other types of games and just got stuck reviewing a game he doesn't feel that passionate about with GP2. That happens and must be understood. He should NEVER give a soft review to any game company. Their anticlimactic review of Quake was embarassing to ID software, but ID still advertises there. I don't agree with their rating of GP2 any more than you do. Nonetheless, I can see how the "more casual" gamer with a killer video card could really like it and give it a great review after a couple weeks. The annoying nuances only creep out after months of fanatical racing. We should neither let PC Gamer go soft nor fail to put the shoe on the other foot. Happy Racin' -- Matt & Audrey Lewis

Hi Dan Thanks for responding, I have a hard time swallowing some of what you said but at least you have the guts to come in and expose yourself to the group. "Sticks n stones my break your bones, But Flames from ***space can't hurt you" PS- May I have your PC, It must be a Real BadBoy!! :) Mr Bill

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> >That said.. Why and who gave GP2 such a Overrated "IMO" rating. > >95%, thats close to perfection. No computer made can run that thing > >properly. Not to > >mention all the bugs and lousy modem problems. > I reviewed GP2, and I have to say I didn't run into any of those > problems in hours of playing it at home and at the office. > As for the speed of the game -- maybe it was the ET6000-based video > card I was using, or maybe I just have a more generous definition of > "smooth" than some other gamers (it's a pretty subjective thing, after > all) -- but GP2 ran smoothly on the P120 I was using at the time, even > in SVGA with most of the details turned on. > >You may also want to reply about the issue of so much advertising in

your

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> >mag. > Well, that's an issue I have no control over, but I'll address it as > best I can. I've seen a few people complaining about how recent issues > of PCG have had more than 50 percent ads -- but the fact is that the > magazine has almost always been more than 50 percent ads. > In fact, that's not at all uncommon in magazine publishing -- the > bean-counters will tell you it has to do with the cost of producing an > issue; every page that doesn't bring revenue in (i.e., every editorial > page) has to be "bought" by a number of pages that do bring in revenue > (ad pages). This becomes more and more important as the size of the > magazine grows (a bigger issue doesn't just mean more paper and ink; > it means exponentially higher shipping and distribution costs, too). > Of course, if we were People or Entertainment Weekly, we'd just charge > five-figure sums for every page of advertising -- that'd bring the > ad-to-edit ratio way down. But -- thank God -- we're not People or > Entertainment Weekly. > Unfortunately, the ads seem to become a lot more noticeable (and, to > some readers, annoying) as the overall page count climbs toward 300. > Every year, we get a temporary increase in complaints about ads -- it > starts shortly after the November issue hits the stands and tapers off > shortly after the January issue is released. (Those are the big > holiday issues, of course, in which every game company wants to > advertise heavily, and we have to bust our buns to fill the editorial > pages in between.) > If I could wish for the people who complain about the ads in PC Gamer > to notice one thing, it would be this: Every time our ad count has > increased, so has our editorial-page count. If December's 444-page > issue only had as many editorial pages as the previous month's > 348-page issue, I could understand people complaining that PCG was > being overrun by ads. They'd be right. But it didn't just have more > ads than we've ever had before; it had more editorial pages (by far) > than we've ever had in a single issue. > Assuming you stayed awake through that long-winded explanation, thanks > for bearing with me. > db

I *wish* <g>. If I had my way, we'd get to spend three months with every game we review and see how it runs on 15 different systems. Like you said, in a perfect world.... I wrote that review, too. But I really don't think it was embarrassing to id Software. Heck, Quake got a 90 percent and an Editor's Choice rating. A lot of Quake fanatics griped about it, but no one at id complained. Dan Bennett Editor, PC Gamer

On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:42:28 -0500, David Gary >Dan Its really hard to see how you gave GP2 the rating you did. I wish >you >coulda been my history teacher back in high school(grin)! The bottom >line is that GP2 should NOT have been released in the "beta" >condition it was in. I did not see any critisism at all in your article >which insults alot of people's intellegence. Well, it certainly wasn't my intention to insult anyone's intelligence. But, like I said, I played the game pretty solidly for a few weeks and didn't run into any problems. I was sincerely very surprised to find out that some people consider GP2 to be a buggy game, since I don't get the chance to read this newsgroup (or any other) regularly, and since I had no trouble with it myself. No. I'm sorry to be blunt, but this is absolutely wrong. And it suggests that, however much you know about advertising, you don't understand the magazine business very well. The writers and editors of a national magazine like PC Gamer have nothing at all to do with advertising. That's handled by a completely different department. The advertising sales department is responsible for selling ads; they're paid a commission for every ad they sell, so they do whatever is in their power to keep the advertisers happy. But they have absolutely no power over the editorial department. People in the editorial department don't get commissions. When we talk to game companies, we speak to their public relations people, not to the people who buy ads. We don't even know what ads are going to appear in a given issue until it's printed. It's not our job to keep advertisers happy; it's our job to please the readers. I can assure you that no one in the editorial department gives a rat's behind about what our advertisers think. We play the games; we make up our minds about them; and we print our honest opinions of them. Sometimes, you'll agree with those opinions; sometimes, you won't. You could take my word that our reviews aren't influenced by advertising dollars, or you could look at some recent issues and prove it to yourself. You'll find plenty of games published by major companies and/or regular advertisers, which nevertheless received less-than-glowing reviews from us. Just a few examples: Deathkeep (SSI, 20%); Mindgrind (Microforum, 45%); MegaRace 2 (Mindscape, 65%); Striker 96 (Acclaim, 40%); The Neverhood (DreamWorks, 40%); Sonic CD (Sega, 65%); Hellbender (Microsoft, 66%); Gene Wars (Electronic Arts, 61%); Caddy Hack (***, 29%). I was going to go through the last five issues, but I think I found plenty of examples in the November and December issues. No need to belabor the point. Check for yourself, and you'll see there's really no correlation between who advertises with us and who gets good or bad reviews. The bottom line is this: if we enjoy playing a game, it gets a good review. If we *really* enjoy playing a game, it gets a great review. If we don't like a game, it gets a bad review. If we hate a game, it gets an abysmal review. That's where it begins and ends. I really liked Grand Prix 2, and I didn't run into any significant problems with it, so I gave it a really good review. I didn't stop for a second to think about MicroProse. If I was worried about hurting MicroProse's feelings, I would've flexed my editor-muscles and killed our earlier review of This Means War (49%). We're always looking for good *** writers who are passionate about games. If you're seriously interested, I'll extend a serious invitation: work on your spelling and punctuation a bit, and send us a couple of sample reviews. I'll try to explain: On a Pentium 120 with 16MB of RAM and an STB Lightning 128 video card, I found GP2 ran smoothly enough that I had no trouble at all controlling my car in SVGA mode, as long as I turned a few of the minor detail options off (backgrounds in rear-view mirrors, that sort of thing). As far as I'm concerned, that's smooth enough. I only suggested that my definition of "smooth" might be more generous than others because I couldn't think of any other way to explain why some people say GP2 doesn't run smoothly enough for them. Actually, I walked out to the parking lot with the president of our company this evening. I got into my Chevy Cavalier; he got into a Saturn sedan, and we drove away. As you said, no one here is starving, but no one's getting *** rich at the expense of our readers, either. Having said that, I don't think you can have it both ways: You can't accuse us of having too many adverti***ts, then accuse us of being so desperate for ads that we'd sacrifice our credibility by writing dishonest reviews to please advertisers. PC Gamer is the #1 computer *** magazine; I'm told we have a qualified circulation of more than a quarter of a million every month. We don't need to pander to advertisers; they come to us. In fact, we've lost at least one advertiser because we refused to retract a review they didn't like -- that advertiser came back recently to buy a run of two-page ads from us. Software companies don't advertise with magazines that write nice reviews of them; they advertise with magazines that reach the most readers. I'm not saying all this to try and convince you that PC Gamer's a bigshot magazine; I'm sure that doesn't matter to you, and it shouldn't. I just want to make it clear that we've been successful enough in pleasing readers that we don't have to worry about pleasing advertisers. No, David. I never said that. I had plenty of time to review GP2. I liked it; I gave it a good review. Disagree with my *opinion*, if you like. Tell me you think my *opinion* was wrong. But please don't accuse me of kowtowing to the advertisers or rushing the review; you're jumping to too many conclusions simply because I wrote a review you disagree with. Actually, that *is* the case. That's precisely the case. About half of PC Gamer is written by ***rs -- not just during the holidays, but every month. Dan Bennett Editor, PC Gamer

If you did read r.a.s regularly you would realise that a few individuals have been taking every chance possible to flame GP2. This isn't limited to GP2 though - another group of individuals will take every opportunity to flame N2 and yet another group will probably do likewise with the next major release. They are not representative of the majority of sim racers and my advice is to simply ignore any author who doesn't back up accusations with any facts or can only flame someone who doesn't agree with them. If they keep it up, add them to your kill file and have a more peaceful time <g> Cheers, Richard