Nascar2 Patch??? NO ANSWER FROM PAPY

I vented my frustration in a previous post on the so called patch that PAPY is working on. Like most of you other supporters (customers) of Sierra/Papy I would like an answer on what the status is on that patch. But guess what..... I don't get ANY reponse from PAPY on my quest for an answer. Great guys like Eric and others that have web sites are doing Papy's work for free by their great utilities and tips. But what support are they getting from Papy, - ZIP-. The only time Papy takes on the web is to bash someone for violating their copywrites. For example Papy doesn't want any tracks posted but does Papy post any tracks???? I don't think so!!!! We are the consumer- customer. If papy won't post new tracks, let the Web sites post them. After all Papy can't lose cause you can't run custom tracks without purchasing the sim anyway. And I own all the sims from Papy, there great..... but we should demand and deserve more support!!!!! Anyone else agree? One last thing, there is NO WAY with all their testing Papy did not know about the Atlanta pit bug and other quirks in the sim. I understand Papy had to go to market but these problems should be solved by now!!! And why put out a sim in Dec of 96 with 96 output on the results screens that can't be altered???... to 97 . Are we supposed to buy Nascar3 in Dec of 97????? The sim was out of date in 3 weeks. Now were supposed to run 1996 year in all of 97???? A Customer.....

One comment : What often happens in software development is a bug will get introduced while trying to fix other bugs. This was probably the case with the Atlanta pit bug you refer to. /THansen

Yeah Right, So (According to your statement ) the best thing to do is not post any patch, cause it might cause another bug!!!! There is a bug in my Atlanta pit bug fix though, but my pit crew cleans it off my winshield everytime I pit. Hello-----Papy---- care to tell the newsgroup When??? you plan to put someone on this and will he or she keep us POSTED on that Patch????

The sim is based on the '96 season and that's why it has '96 on it. The patch will be here. Wouldn't you rather have a patch that worked instead of a patch that has to be patched to work correctly? Cowen Wilson -------------------- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7137

> I vented my frustration in a previous post on the so called >patch that PAPY is working on. Like most of you other supporters >(customers) of Sierra/Papy I would like an answer on what the status >is on that patch. But guess what..... I don't get ANY reponse from >PAPY on my quest for an answer. I'm not sure what you were expecting in the way of a response. I imagine that Papyrus is laying pretty low right now. If you'll recall the last time they announced an estimated ship date for a patch, they were flamed endlessly when it slipped a few days. In fact, thinking back to November, they were getting flamed pretty good for letting the NASCAR 2 ship date slip a week. Now those same people are flaming them because there were bugs in it. Sheesh! Not true. I receive email nearly every week from someone at Papyrus offering suggestions or advice. Obviously they can't take the time to email everyone who posts on RAS, so they pass the information on to people who are willing to pass it along to others. Not true. Jim Sokoloff and Charlie Heath post here quite regularly, offering advice to anyone who will listen. Yes, Ed and Adam have both made it clear that copies of tracks posted on the web that contained licensed materials are illegal. Under their licensing agreements, they have an obligation to do that. They are simply upholding the bargain they made with Tony George and others when they signed the license agreement. So Papyrus should be giving away tracks, is that it? I guarantee you that Papyrus would have absolutely no objections to someone posting a truly original track. But I haven't seen a completely original track, they are all just derivatives of licensed and copyrighted works, and therefore, illegal. Calm down - the patch IS coming. There's a lot of things they didn't know about. There are some bugs that the beta testers didn't run into until after the product shipped. All in all, NASCAR 2 is pretty solid compared to the first release of NASCAR 1. This is terrible - I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!! ;) Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

> So (According to your statement ) the best thing to do is not >post any patch, cause it might cause another bug!!! Anytime you make changes to software, new bugs can creep in. That's not to say we should never change software, but that when we do, we need to test the results of those changes. People have been on the patch for quite some time now. We've taken input from rec.auto.sim, our own play-testing, private e-mail, and however else we've gotten it... No official announcement regarding the timing of the release of the patch has been made, and I'm not going to make one now. All I can say is that it's actively being worked on, that it will please 95% of the people who can be pleased, and that it will be out as soon as we can engineer, debug, test and release it. (And not one minute before.) ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

THansen, correct for 10 points; you choose the next category. This bug was introduced in the last week of development. (And no one caught it, because engineering/development put it in too late for testing/QA to possibly catch it. In fact, the first we heard of this bug was from rec.auto.sim. And the fix is now "well known" and will be fixed by our patch. In the meantime, you can get the fix from a number of web sites. Papyrus QA hasn't had a chance to OK any patches yet, so that's why you don't find any on our web or ftp site. ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

They seem to be really getting a huge ego at Papyrus.. quit talking down to us...after all we are customers, and have paid good money for a bug filled program. Bruce Chandley

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>> So (According to your statement ) the best thing to do is not >>post any patch, cause it might cause another bug!!! >Anytime you make changes to software, new bugs can creep in. That's >not to say we should never change software, but that when we do, we >need to test the results of those changes. >>Hello-----Papy---- care to tell the newsgroup When??? you plan to put >>someone on this and will he or she keep us POSTED on that Patch???? >People have been on the patch for quite some time now. We've taken >input from rec.auto.sim, our own play-testing, private e-mail, and >however else we've gotten it... >No official announcement regarding the timing of the release of the >patch has been made, and I'm not going to make one now. All I can say >is that it's actively being worked on, that it will please 95% of the >people who can be pleased, and that it will be out as soon as we can >engineer, debug, test and release it. (And not one minute before.) >---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

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> > So (According to your statement ) the best thing to do is not > >post any patch, cause it might cause another bug!!! > Anytime you make changes to software, new bugs can creep in. That's > not to say we should never change software, but that when we do, we > need to test the results of those changes. > >Hello-----Papy---- care to tell the newsgroup When??? you plan to put > >someone on this and will he or she keep us POSTED on that Patch???? > People have been on the patch for quite some time now. We've taken > input from rec.auto.sim, our own play-testing, private e-mail, and > however else we've gotten it... > No official announcement regarding the timing of the release of the > patch has been made, and I'm not going to make one now. All I can say > is that it's actively being worked on, that it will please 95% of the > people who can be pleased, and that it will be out as soon as we can > engineer, debug, test and release it. (And not one minute before.) > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

I'm pleased that Papyrus is at least working on it. There are some racing sims out there that have kept the customers in the dark about possible patches, etc. At least Nascar 2 customers know that a patch is coming - not to mention NRO. Ken

That's a bit harsh! Jim Sokoloff (excuse if spelt incorrectly) has been here quite regularly since the New Year. In fact, it was he who advised that Papy were intending to produce a patch. Get off their backs and let them do it without undue pressure........which was placed on them initially to get N2 out. bk

God , Sombody might think David is on the PAPY payroll. The only time I've heard from Jim Sokoloff is when he has a complaint about a post. All I'm asking is Who is writing the patch and WHEN is it going to be ready (approx.) and why doesn't Jim tell us? Oh I remember he's too busy writing the patch!!!!! WAKE UP and COMPARE the Utilities posted on all the Nascar2 Web sites to PAPY's and tell me who has more support for us. I never said papy should give us DATONA for free but PAPY does not own the rights to it Sega does. Yet who does not want anybody to post any tracks----PAPY. And who will not sell us the tracks-----PAPY. Get a Clue!!!!! And Before you get all defensive ( too late!!) Nascar2 is my favorite sim and you can give me my money back but your not getting my sim. What I'm trying to say is Lets have a progress report with some real answers. I can't be alone on this viewpoint. Or should I just Pit and let the spotter tell me there's an accident in turn 4 - GO HI GO HI GO HI...............

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>They seem to be really getting a huge ego at Papyrus.. quit talking >down to us...after all we are customers, and have paid good money for >a bug filled program. >Bruce Chandley >>Anytime you make changes to software, new bugs can creep in. That's >>not to say we should never change software, but that when we do, we >>need to test the results of those changes. >>People have been on the patch for quite some time now. We've taken >>input from rec.auto.sim, our own play-testing, private e-mail, and >>however else we've gotten it... >>No official announcement regarding the timing of the release of the >>patch has been made, and I'm not going to make one now. All I can say >>is that it's actively being worked on, that it will please 95% of the >>people who can be pleased, and that it will be out as soon as we can >>engineer, debug, test and release it. (And not one minute before.) >>---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Bruce, Help me out here. Can you point out, in Jim Sokoloff's above post, where he is talking down to us? That way I'll know when I should be offended. Don't forget, this is not an official Papyrus support news group. You should also take your concerns and problems directly to Sierra to be sure that they are heard by thier support staff. Of course, I'm sure you've already done that.

>The only time I've heard from Jim Sokoloff is when he has a complaint >about a post.<snip> Contact your ISP and complain. You are most DEFINITELY NOT recieving all of the postings from this newsgroup. By far, most postings from Papyrus employees have been to answer questions. As Jim has said, he is not here as an official Papyrus representitive. He's hasn't been the official conduit for Papyrus announcements. He's here as another Nascar Sim enthusiast who is able to provide some information that others cannot. For official Nascar2 info, contact Sierra. Papyrus builds the car, then somebody makes cool windshield wipers for it and you complain that Papy should have made the wipers. I guess your gonna be one of those guys that's lost to "ya can't please all the people all the time". If that's what you were trying to say then....That's all you had to say. I can't speak for Papy but If this last paragraph was all that was in your post, I'd be more receptive.

I'm not announcing the time of the patch, because that's not within my role at Papyrus, I like my job a lot, want to keep it, and part of keeping my job is playing by the rules. It's Adam's ball to talk about specifics regarding N2, the patch and its release. It's Ed's ball to talk about specifics with NRO/TEN. When I've asked Adam in the past to make announcements on r.a.s. regarding the patch, he's done so. We don't have any more information ready for public release at this time; so he hasn't said anything recently... If you are a statistics type, www.dejanews.com has the information to prove or disprove the "only time Jim posts is to complain about a post" assertion. (This particular post, you could probably put in the "complain" column... :-) ) If that's the only way you're going to measure support is by utilities posted on Web sites, then Papyrus is not supporting you at all currently... If you (or anyone) is able to create a completely original track, and not a derived work, that person (or group) will own the copyright to that material and will be free to do with it as they please, at their own licensing risk, without any legal restricitions by Papyrus. So far, all anyone has done is to modify our copyrighted and licensed materials and repost them. Papyrus and our licensors have acted and will continue to act aggressively to protect our intellectual property and the value of those licenses. I can sympathize with your frustration. Don't get me wrong. And I can assure you that Charlie, John, Adam and I are all equally anxious to get the patch done, through QA, and into the hands of our (adoring and not so adoring) sim fans... Everyone is on the same page there... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Why won't Papyrus sell you the tracks? Because they can't get the licensing, or don't have it (yet). Why don't they want you to make your own tracks? Because you'd be violating copyright laws? Remember the Pits? They were trying to make a Daytona track, but had to stop because Daytona (or their laywers) were threatening them. It's not as easy as you think. And no, I'm not on Papyrus' payroll, either.

<snip> : No official announcement regarding the timing of the release of the : patch has been made, and I'm not going to make one now. All I can say : is that it's actively being worked on, that it will please 95% of the : people who can be pleased, and that it will be out as soon as we can : engineer, debug, test and release it. (And not one minute before.) DEBUG MODE ON: "...please 95% of the people who can be pleased..." This code is confusing -- do I compile it to mean that there are 5% of the people who can not be pleased? Or does this mean that there are 5% of people who can be pleased, but won't be pleased? DEBUG MODE OFF: Jim, I'm just beta-testing here. ;-) What Jim is trying to say is that there are 5% of you out there that wouldn't be pleased if Papyrus gave you a Real Winston Cup Ride in a Real Winston Cup Car with a Real Winston Cup Team for a Real Winston Cup Season. Do them and us a favor and take a deep breath and learn some patience. It took you at least 9 months in development before you where released and at least 14 years to get you patched to this buggy state. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I think you guys should all calm down, I want that patch to but I can wait for a good one. At least papyrus is working on a patch and responding to us. We know they are coming. ( the patches ). Look at Microprose. NO PATCH. NO SUPPORT. NO NEWS. NOTHING!! Result...NO MONEY FROM MYSELF EVER AGAIN. Time to dust off the CD Duplicator. Microprose. you suck. Oh, was that to harsh? What I meant was.. YOU REALLY SUCK !! The Billman.

> > I vented my frustration in a previous post on the so called > >patch that PAPY is working on. Like most of you other supporters > >(customers) of Sierra/Papy I would like an answer on what the status > >is on that patch. But guess what..... I don't get ANY reponse from > >PAPY on my quest for an answer. Well when things are in the works it seems to be a little quite, nobody wants to be accounted for something they say that might not end up in the patch, settle down Beavis and just give it a little time! Papy's not obligated to compensate any of these guys. These guys manage these web-sites and create utilities because they love this hobby. N2 was shipped as a finished product. And I havent heard of any real complaints about the utilities Papy has incorporated into their sims. Now GP2 on the other hand wasnt only "unfinished", but they didnt give you squat for utilities, compare the two and youll feel much better about N2 This is about the only newsgroup I really post in and I have read just about every re- post by Papy's guys. I have not seen one bash from these guys. As a matter a fact everything I've read from Jim or Ed has been handled very professionaly. Are you sure you mean PAPY-rus? Who says they owe you anything!? N2 came with all the tracks available with their first sim. With N1 you had to buy the add-on tracks. In my opinion they were very fair with N2. Ive seen more than enough support from PAPY in here. As a matter of fact their the ONLY software support I've seen in this newgroup!! Then you DONT understand Papy had to go to market. Ever heard of editing the players strength and '97 carsets?! -DG-

Let me correct you. The Pits' Daytona project was canceled because of pressure from the people who own the real Daytona track. Quoted from the Pits: "On a fateful day in April...I recieved a phone call. The caller was Andrew from ISC...International Speedways Corp. "So what?" ..you may say. ICS owns the REAL Daytona and Talladega tracks...and they were calling me personally to let me know that their next move would be to call a lawyer to deliver a letter to "cease and desist" all efforts on the Daytona Project. Why? Their copyright laws were being violated." Papyrus didn't say that you can't make additional tracks. If you make a fictional track all by yourself, then there is nothing wrong with that.

Some of you guys are amazing. First of all all I was trying to do is generate a little activity in the patch that all of YOU could benefit from. Secondly the only complaint on the Datona track came from Papyrus NOT from Datona, NOT from Sega. If you were paying attention to those track sites you would have noticed where the complaints were coming from!!!!!! The deal is, it cost money to purchase rights to something. IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE COST OR THEY WON'T SELL YOU CAN'T GET THEM. It's as simple as that. And PAPYRUS falls into one of those two scenarios. Papyrus is just saying that if they can't get the rights YOU can't get the track. All you guys defending that line of thinking are hurting yourselves only and PAPYRUS loves a FREE defense. In plain English If PAPYRUS can't get the track or others, leave the web sites alone. After all how many of you were running the #3 car and others in Nascar1 without copyright clearance??? As a note Jim Sokoloff told me that they are working on the patch and again I thank Jim and the others for the best sim ever, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't get a bug free (or close) sim, or be allowed to have more tracks. Your turn........

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>Let me correct you. The Pits' Daytona project was canceled because of >pressure from the people who own the real Daytona track. >Quoted from the Pits: >"On a fateful day in April...I recieved a phone call. The caller was >Andrew from >ISC...International Speedways Corp. "So what?" ..you may say. ICS owns the >REAL Daytona and >Talladega tracks...and they were calling me personally to let me know that >their next move would be to >call a lawyer to deliver a letter to "cease and desist" all efforts on the >Daytona Project. Why? Their >copyright laws were being violated." >Papyrus didn't say that you can't make additional tracks. If you make a >fictional track all by yourself, then there is nothing wrong with that.

You can correct me all you want but every web site that had tracks siad "DUE TO A REQUEST FROM PAPYRUS........."

I wasn't correcting you as far as that goes. I know that most of the time, it's Papyrus who says that you can't make a certain track, but this was not the case with the Pit's Daytona project, like you had said. This time it was Daytona itself. It's not like Papyrus is bored and is just telling people to stop making tracks because they feel like bothering them, but because those tracks violate copyright laws. That tracks' and their owners'. If you make a totally orginally track all by yourself, then that's fine, but if you start making and releasing tracks like Texas, Las Vegas, etc., then that is a violation of copyright law.

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>>Let me correct you. The Pits' Daytona project was canceled because of >>pressure from the people who own the real Daytona track. >>Quoted from the Pits: >>"On a fateful day in April...I recieved a phone call. The caller was >>Andrew from >>ISC...International Speedways Corp. "So what?" ..you may say. ICS owns the >>REAL Daytona and >>Talladega tracks...and they were calling me personally to let me know that >>their next move would be to >>call a lawyer to deliver a letter to "cease and desist" all efforts on the >>Daytona Project. Why? Their >>copyright laws were being violated." >>Papyrus didn't say that you can't make additional tracks. If you make a >>fictional track all by yourself, then there is nothing wrong with that. >You can correct me all you want but every web site that had tracks >siad "DUE TO A REQUEST FROM PAPYRUS........."

If it said "Due to a request from Elvis...", would you believe that? ---Jim Sokoloff, speaking for myself.

I beleive it is WELL documented, either on the box itself, or in the manual, that the game is BASED on the 1996 season, so I think you should go back and RTFM before flaming Papyrus!

>I beleive it is WELL documented, either on the box itself, or in the >manual, that the game is BASED >on the 1996 season, so I think you should go back and RTFM before flaming >Papyrus! Duh, All I'm saying is that if your putting out sim in the first week of Dec 1996 and can't change the year you have 3 weeks before your running an out of date season. Where are you supposed to run all those NEW 97 cars, on a 96 season???? God, get a clue...... I don't care what the Sim is called, the user should be able to change the season year!!!! Amazed at your lack of understanding......

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> >>Let me correct you. The Pits' Daytona project was canceled because of > >>pressure from the people who own the real Daytona track. > >>Quoted from the Pits: > >>"On a fateful day in April...I recieved a phone call. The caller was > >>Andrew from > >>ISC...International Speedways Corp. "So what?" ..you may say. ICS owns

the > >>REAL Daytona and > >>Talladega tracks...and they were calling me personally to let me know that > >>their next move would be to > >>call a lawyer to deliver a letter to "cease and desist" all efforts on the

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> >>Daytona Project. Why? Their > >>copyright laws were being violated." > >>Papyrus didn't say that you can't make additional tracks. If you make a > >>fictional track all by yourself, then there is nothing wrong with that. > >You can correct me all you want but every web site that had tracks > >siad "DUE TO A REQUEST FROM PAPYRUS........." > If it said "Due to a request from Elvis...", would you believe that? > ---Jim Sokoloff, speaking for myself.

Where can I get these Elvis tracks at?

You can find the evis tracks at nhttp://nww.zong.nepnet/~phlergdrr/elvis/tracks.htmz

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ My browser doesn't like this. Please check your spelling! Just curious...What is the "evis" track?

Oops. Sorry. That was supposed to be "Elvis" and not "evis"

I messed up and wrote evis instead of Elvis. The URL I wrote was a joke. It doesn't exist.

> Yeah Right, > So (According to your statement ) the best thing to do is not > post any patch, cause it might cause another bug!!!! Maybe a patch to the fix the patch to fix the patch to fix the... Silly :) [===] Go R. Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nicolas Mnard "Nien Numb" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)

Wake up people this is a JOKE:),:),:)...... >>You can find the evis tracks at >>nhttp://nww.zong.nepnet/~phlergdrr/elvis/tracks.htmz > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >My browser doesn't like this. Please check your spelling! >Just curious...What is the "evis" track?

evis is Elvis's long lost brother. > >You can find the evis tracks at > >nhttp://nww.zong.nepnet/~phlergdrr/elvis/tracks.htmz > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > My browser doesn't like this. Please check your spelling! > Just curious...What is the "evis" track?

> You can find the evis tracks at > nhttp://nww.zong.nepnet/~phlergdrr/elvis/tracks.htmz Uh no you can't that won't work. -- Todo Es Justo En Amor Y Carreras. The Rusty Wallace Miller Genuine Draft stock car, awsome when opened up! GO#2! Mullins Motorsports Inc. http://www.***tron.com/~ddmj

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>>God , Sombody might think David is on the PAPY payroll. >>The only time I've heard from Jim Sokoloff is when he has a complaint >>about a post. All I'm asking is Who is writing the patch and WHEN is >>it going to be ready (approx.) and why doesn't Jim tell us? Oh >>I remember he's too busy writing the patch!!!!! >Ahh, Jim isn't in charge of the "patch for N2". He was the "producer" >for NASCAR Racing for the console, PSX!! Adam was the producer and >from the looks of it, Adam is very busy!! Can't you tell he isn't >posting anything. >Just like when Rick Genter was with Papy, he like disappeared when he >was doing the patch for ICR2!!!!!! The "patch gremlins" have got Adam >and crew!! Hehe..; ) >And I believe he didn't do anything with N2. >Jim has been very helpful in RAS. At least there is a company rep in >here!!: ) Hear that Micorpose!! >>WAKE UP and COMPARE the Utilities posted on all the Nascar2 Web >>sites to PAPY's and tell me who has more support for us. >Sheesh, well if you are going to talk about that then, then look at >all the utilities for N1 and ICR2!! There's really not much to compare >from, meaning N1 utlities to N2 utilities. I mean N1 dominates by a >long shot. Plus, N2 is still a "new kid" on the block, give it time, >okay? >As for support, Papy is here!! Does that at least say something to >you?? >Relax..It will come out. Play Quake or something while you wait..Hehe; >) >>I never said papy should give us DATONA for free but PAPY does not own >>the rights to it Sega does. Yet who does not want anybody to post any >>tracks----PAPY. And who will not sell us the tracks-----PAPY. Get a >>Clue!!!!! >Hmm.. You must be really "young" to understand the copyright laws. You >just want, want, want.. >> And Before you get all defensive ( too late!!) Nascar2 is my favorite >>sim and you can give me my money back but your not getting my sim. >>What I'm trying to say is Lets have a progress report with some real >>answers. I can't be alone on this viewpoint. Or should I just Pit and >>let the spotter tell me there's an accident in turn 4 - GO HI GO HI GO >>HI............... >Well, I am happy that is your favorite sim!! But you wanting a >progress report is asking to much I think. Cause when I am >concentrating a great deal on something, such as laying out the plans >for a race engine and making sure it's within the rules, I DON"T want >to get bothered!! I just want to do this "one time and one time only." >Get it right the first time, you know what I am saying? >I will get off my chair now.. >Hehe.. >take care.. >Julian Data >IVGA Member #0004 >Director of Information Technology >ACE Beta Tester and Driver of IVGA >Channel Operator of #ivga on IRC (Undernet) >Powered by IVGA Pro Gamer System P6-200 oc 233, 96MB EDO

Well, get a clue ........ when you pay full price for s sim you should expect one without bugs. If you bought a new car and the windows did not work you might be a little Upset, and you MIGHT be a little interested in when the problem would be fixed!!!! All I was asking is Approx when, and if there is a patch coming. You might think more like a consumer than someone who is trying to pick apart posts!!!!! I'm not asking for the impossible, just some feedback. I think thats fair!!!! However some people like you just don't get it!!!!. Jim is NOT my enemy he's doing his job. I do have an idea when the patch is coming but you wouldn't care. You just want to be a ****. If you read ALL my posts you would know I thanked Jim and Eric T. for their help. But I can still ask for answers!!!! Can't please everyone.....

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>> >>Let me correct you. The Pits' Daytona project was canceled because of >> >>pressure from the people who own the real Daytona track. >> >>Quoted from the Pits: >> >>"On a fateful day in April...I recieved a phone call. The caller was >> >>Andrew from >> >>ISC...International Speedways Corp. "So what?" ..you may say. ICS owns >the >> >>REAL Daytona and >> >>Talladega tracks...and they were calling me personally to let me know >that >> >>their next move would be to >> >>call a lawyer to deliver a letter to "cease and desist" all efforts on >the >> >>Daytona Project. Why? Their >> >>copyright laws were being violated." >> >>Papyrus didn't say that you can't make additional tracks. If you make a >> >>fictional track all by yourself, then there is nothing wrong with that. >> >You can correct me all you want but every web site that had tracks >> >siad "DUE TO A REQUEST FROM PAPYRUS........." >> If it said "Due to a request from Elvis...", would you believe that? >> ---Jim Sokoloff, speaking for myself. > Where can I get these Elvis tracks at?

Don't know, but I hear they're nothing but Nashville with different on-track objects.

I know it won't. It was a joke. There aren't any Elvis tracks.

> Oops. Sorry. That was supposed to be "Elvis" and not "evis" What is the right address? -- Todo Es Justo En Amor Y Carreras. The Rusty Wallace Miller Genuine Draft stock car, awsome when opened up! GO#2! Mullins Motorsports Inc. http://www.***tron.com/~ddmj

There isn't one. It was a joke. Elvis didn't make any tracks..

It was evis Elvis's brother.

Amazed at your ***retentiveness! I am so damned tired of people complaining about the tracks/cars/signs/haulers not matching as far as the season goes. Who the hell cares?! It is a fine simulation (they all are) and what the hell difference does it make. Someone should come out with a patch that changes the pictures and ages of the drivers because lord knows all hell will break loose when a driver has a birthday and the game is now wrong!!Get a life idiots -- "You stick to driving your typewriter and I'll stick to driving the racecars"-Freejack David W. McFarland '87 LX hatch

Any chance of a Hound Dog car and a pit crew with Blue suede shoes....:-) Shane Lansky Hobart,Tasmania Australia

Gee, hope there aren't any new teams or driver changes after that 3 week prior to season start time. We'd be waiting on 48 patches a season instead of 1-2. Ron

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>>I beleive it is WELL documented, either on the box itself, or in the >>manual, that the game is BASED >>on the 1996 season, so I think you should go back and RTFM before flaming >>Papyrus! >Duh, > All I'm saying is that if your putting out sim in the first week of >Dec 1996 and can't change the year you have 3 weeks before your >running an out of date season. > Where are you supposed to run all those NEW 97 cars, on a 96 >season???? God, get a clue...... I don't care what the Sim is >called, the user should be able to change the season year!!!! > Amazed at your lack of understanding......

*********************************************** ** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down ** *** Ron Riekens II *** **** Co-Owner - Driver **** **** Maui Sunshine Raceing/*** Photography **** *** NASS BGN Series #97 Pontiac *** ***********************************************

>If it said "Due to a request from Elvis...", would you believe that? >---Jim Sokoloff, speaking for myself. Elvis!!, Where??? <G><Jk> Ron *********************************************** ** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down ** *** Ron Riekens II *** **** Co-Owner - Driver **** **** Maui Sunshine Raceing/*** Photography **** *** NASS BGN Series #97 Pontiac *** ***********************************************

I agree!!! If you can't spell DATONA right, you shouldn't be posting messages.

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> Some of you guys are amazing. > First of all all I was trying to do is generate a little activity in > the patch that all of YOU could benefit from. > Secondly the only complaint on the Datona track came from > Papyrus NOT from Datona, NOT from Sega. > If you were paying attention to those track sites you would > have noticed where the complaints were coming from!!!!!!

<<<snip snip>>>

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> As a note Jim Sokoloff told me that they are working on the patch and > again I thank Jim and the others for the best sim ever, but that > doesn't mean we shouldn't get a bug free (or close) sim, or be allowed > to have more tracks. > Your turn........ > Just one little thing to add to this very exciting thread....... > STOP SPELLING DAYTONA WITHOUT THE "Y"!!!!!!!!!

Hey man saying Daytona is evil cause Daytona could get you into a whole lot of Daytona not to mention Daytona. Which may even lead to Daytona. Hey its Daytona time. Sorry just making up for people spelling it wrong. You know Daytona. :) -- Todo Es Justo En Amor Y Carreras. The Rusty Wallace Miller Genuine Draft stock car, awsome when opened up! GO#2! Mullins Motorsports Inc. http://www.***tron.com/~ddmj

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> >> >You can correct me all you want but every web site that had tracks > >> >siad "DUE TO A REQUEST FROM PAPYRUS........." > >> If it said "Due to a request from Elvis...", would you believe that? > >> ---Jim Sokoloff, speaking for myself. > > Where can I get these Elvis tracks at? > Don't know, but I hear they're nothing but Nashville with different on-track > objects.

Yeah with "love me tender" song from the spotter when E.Irvan goes crashing you :) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nicolas Mnard "Nien Numb" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)

>> >> >You can correct me all you want but every web site that had tracks >> >> >siad "DUE TO A REQUEST FROM PAPYRUS........." Etc, etc. None of my business, but is this thread supernatural or something? It just won't die, it keeps coming back in various incarnations<G>. Ron *********************************************** ** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down ** *** Ron Riekens II *** **** Co-Owner - Driver **** **** Maui Sunshine Raceing/*** Photography **** *** NASS BGN Series #97 Pontiac *** ***********************************************

Yes, we at the Institute for Supernatural Threads try our best to keep the thing alive, although our conjurers are gonna go on strike here in a minute..

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> >> >> >You can correct me all you want but every web site that had tracks > >> >> >siad "DUE TO A REQUEST FROM PAPYRUS........." > Etc, etc. > None of my business, but is this thread supernatural or something? > It just won't die, it keeps coming back in various incarnations<G>. > Ron > *********************************************** > ** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down ** > *** Ron Riekens II *** > **** Co-Owner - Driver **** > **** Maui Sunshine Raceing/*** Photography **** > *** NASS BGN Series #97 Pontiac *** > ***********************************************

I saw Elvis at Daytona in 1992 buying a hot dog.

Has anybody called the Physcic Hotline for their answer?