Nascar 2 - Is it worth it?

I have not yet purchased N2 and am kind of on the fence as to whether I should go out and get it or just hang on a bit. I have the demo and must admit the graphics are great, but there are features I don't like as well. Of course after seeing all the problems on the newsgroup - well IT JUST CONFUSES ME MORE !!!!!! Any thoughts on this are appreciated. A contented fence sitter (for now) enjoying the past (N1) <g> chasman

Chasman: Of course, you will likely get replies refuting that N2 is worthwhile. As for my opinion, I say an unqualified yes to getting it. I find it improved in almost every way. The car handling is much better (read - believably realistic), the tracks are much more representative of the real thing, the setup process is easier (both the setup screen and the ability to sense minor adjustments in car handling have improved), the computer car AI is better (not perfect though), the spotter is a godsend, and the attention to detail is better in many places. Although I am biased because I run the Rendition 3D accelerated version, the graphics and frame rates are both improved considerably even running the normal, non 3D accelerated version. If you encounter some of the bugs, you may resent my recommendation. There is no save race feature yet. This was axed from the new game, but may be added in a patch.... Nonetheless, Nascar2 is much more engrossing than Nascar1 ever was for me. P.S. If you have the money, get a Rendition card. Matt Lewis

Quoted text (12 lines)

> I have not yet purchased N2 and am kind of on the fence as to whether I > should go out and get it or just hang on a bit. > I have the demo and must admit the graphics are great, but there are > features I don't like as well. Of course after seeing all the problems > on the newsgroup - well IT JUST CONFUSES ME MORE !!!!!! > Any thoughts on this are appreciated. > A contented fence sitter (for now) enjoying the past (N1) <g> > chasman

: I have not yet purchased N2 and am kind of on the fence as to whether I : should go out and get it or just hang on a bit. : I have the demo and must admit the graphics are great, but there are : features I don't like as well. Of course after seeing all the problems : on the newsgroup - well IT JUST CONFUSES ME MORE !!!!!! : Any thoughts on this are appreciated. : A contented fence sitter (for now) enjoying the past (N1) <g> The "bugs" are minor and Papyrus is working on fixing them. Overall N2 is more realistic than N1. I can't even imagine wanting to go back to N1 after racing N2. It's just not the graphics. The physics of the car and tracks are much improved along with the AI. The biggest bugs seem to do with multi-player, rest assured that Papyrus will fix the multi-player part since that is the kernel of NRO. The only other thing that could be a draw back is the save-game is lacking. This was a conscious design, therefore not a bug. Papryus is hard at work on a means to give us a decent save-game feature (they've listened to their customers). In the meantime, I'm running a season at 33% length which is just about right for at least 1 pit stop at most tracks. This is enough to keep me happy for the moment. (Note to Papy: I'm almost done with the 33-1/3 season, so I'll be needing my save-game soon! <G>) -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Quoted text (10 lines)

> : I have not yet purchased N2 and am kind of on the fence as to whether I > : should go out and get it or just hang on a bit. > : I have the demo and must admit the graphics are great, but there are > : features I don't like as well. Of course after seeing all the problems > : on the newsgroup - well IT JUST CONFUSES ME MORE !!!!!! > : Any thoughts on this are appreciated. > : A contented fence sitter (for now) enjoying the past (N1) <g>

The AI is much better, the graphics too....The spotter in the game is GREAT.......However....THERE IS NO SAVE GAME FEATURE. I like pitting more than 1 time in a race......I was under the impression that Papyrus is considering a Save game option......I think Jim S. stated he was going to talk to his superiors about whether it was cost effective to put out a patch for the save game feature...This status may have changed since then....But, I have not seen anybody from Papyrus state that YES there would be a patch. Not putting the save game feature in N2 is purely short-sighted leadership from somebody!.....or laziness, or hurry up (we don't have time) let's get it out before Christmas...we can always put out a patch. P.S. installing is a pain...especially the new way you set up the sound card.....

If you enjoy racing sims then get it. Plain and simple. Same goes for all the top sims. There may be a few bugs but none of them are such that it means that you won't enjoy the racing (OK before the whiners jump in here, at one or two tracks things may be a little bad but workarounds are already being posted and an official patch should appear before too long). I find that N2 is a vast improvement over N1. It is also a _lot_ better than the demo. I nearly didn't buy N2 as I thought the demo was appalling, but I'm glad to say that a lot of work was done before getting the real thing out. Cheers, Richard

Yes, it's worth it. I had no problems with the installation and the sim runs great. Everything runs very smooth and I havn't had it lock up on me yet. Going through the menus gets a bit slow at times if you have minimal install. Other than that it's great. Yes, no save race feature, but I think that Adam said that Papyrus is working on one.

I would recommend it if you have the horses to run it. The graphics are fantastic and I have not experienced any of the problems discussed in the group. RJ

The statement that iit is very smooth except for menus makes me believe that you have a Rendition video adapter. The sim is very smooth with a Rendition adapter running in DMA mode (not all motherboard support this correctly) and/or a fast Pentium processor. The sim will probably not provide exceptable frame rates on < P133 unless you have a Rendition video adapter.

Quoted text (15 lines)

> The statement that iit is very smooth except for menus makes me believe > that you have a Rendition video adapter. The sim is very smooth with a > Rendition adapter running in DMA mode (not all motherboard support this > correctly) and/or a fast Pentium processor. The sim will probably not > provide exceptable frame rates on < P133 unless you have a Rendition video > adapter. > > Yes, it's worth it. I had no problems with the installation and the sim > > runs great. Everything runs very smooth and I havn't had it lock up on me > > yet. Going through the menus gets a bit slow at times if you have minimal > > install. Other than that it's great. Yes, no save race feature, but I > > think that Adam said that Papyrus is working on one.

Actually, I've played the game on two friend's P120's and had a very good frame rate (asphalt was the only texture off). I have a PPro180 now, but I ran the game for a considerable amount of time on a P90, with almost every texture turned on.

> > The statement that iit is very smooth except for menus makes me believe > > that you have a Rendition video adapter. The sim is very smooth with a > > Rendition adapter running in DMA mode (not all motherboard support this > > correctly) and/or a fast Pentium processor. The sim will probably not > > provide exceptable frame rates on < P133 unless you have a Rendition video > > adapter. Sandbag: REPLY: Well I have 1 system without a Verite and once you go verite then going straight is tough. Last night I did my final adjustments on the non-accelerated version to get it to run as smooth as the Verite version. On a P133 I'm set at 20 fps turns of auto detail and 24 turns on auto detail. I have walls and car textures always on everything else is auto. Obviously I take a graphics hit but the smoothness is a neccessity if your used to the verite version. When competeing against others you need the control equal. For the record the P133 without a verite would have a verite if it could. If the verite version of N2 was as smooth as ICR 2 verite I'm not sure what I would have to do with the non-accelerated version.

I bought N2 when it went on sale for $29.99 locally. I've played N1 at least once every week since it came out and looked forward to N2. Aside from the improved look on the track I'm disappointed. I have removed it from my computer. Admitedly I did not spend a great deal of time with the game but the "features" that made the decision for me are the lack of a SAVE GAME option and screwing around with getting the mouse cursor just right on the spot in the various menus. If N1 came with only Talladega I'd be happy. N2 is great eye and ear candy but IMHO not an easy thing to work with compared to N1. I will put it back on the computer at some date - I do like that crew chief dialogue feature. The 2 main reasons why my serious racing will be on N1are; I prefer to race lengths 50-100% but cannot set aside that kind of time always so the SAVE GAME feature is a must. I also enjoy working with the replay feature and to have to fiddle with the mouse in this program is a royal pain compared to the "old" way. At least I didn't pay TOO much for it and it came with a free copy of IndyCar 1. And that made a great Christamas gift for someone I know who's been tempted to try a driving sim but does not have the latest in computer technology. The two of them are getting along just fine. believe the Holiday shopping season did have an impact on SIERRA's decision to put it on the shelf when they did. Too bad. I think in this case newer is better looking but not necessarily "better." Know what I mean?

[snip] The "old" way still works. Pressing V and Shift-V changes the car in focus, C and Shift-C changes the camera view, space-bar starts and stops and the angle brackets change rewind and fast forward. Also, L and Shift-L will skip ahead or behind a lap for the car in focus, but I suspect this may only work with race replays. The Save Game may be addressed in a patch. There are also a number of other small bugs that are being addressed. Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

Quoted text (12 lines)

> I bought N2 when it went on sale for $29.99 locally. I've played N1 at > least once every week since it came out and looked forward to N2. Aside > from the improved look on the track I'm disappointed. I have removed it > from my computer. > Admitedly I did not spend a great deal of time with the game but the > "features" that made the decision for me are the lack of a SAVE GAME > option and screwing around with getting the mouse cursor just right on the > spot in the various menus. > If N1 came with only Talladega I'd be happy. N2 is great eye and ear > candy but IMHO not an easy thing to work with compared to N1. I will put > it back on the computer at some date - I do like that crew chief dialogue > feature.

REPLY: That's yourside let me tell my POV on the biggest reason why N2 blows away N1. First I can't argue and will not the save game feature. It seems a lot of people are brainwashed with Talladega. I can understand since N1 that was the only track you could really race due to performance issues on N1. But N2 with Verite is outstanding because you can race the other tracks. And ya know what? you find out that only "Pussies" (friends words) run at Talladega. All it is is a big straightaway. The beauty of N2 is you can run all 16 tracks nicely and each track is unique all to it's self. Plus add the fact you can IPX 8 players!! Q.B.M.

We've been round and round about save game in rec.auto.sim, so I'll not cover that ground again, but the replay still has (I'm pretty sure) the same keyboard accelerators as before... < rewind c next camera C previous camera v next vehicle V previous vehicle SPACE pause/unpause Additionally, there are some new ones (l,L for next/previous lap) ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Quoted text (17 lines)

>> The 2 main reasons why my serious racing will be on N1are; I prefer to >>race lengths 50-100% but cannot set aside that kind of time always so the >>SAVE GAME feature is a must. I also enjoy working with the replay feature >>and to have to fiddle with the mouse in this program is a royal pain >>compared to the "old" way. >We've been round and round about save game in rec.auto.sim, so I'll >not cover that ground again, but the replay still has (I'm pretty >sure) the same keyboard accelerators as before... >> fast forward >< rewind >c next camera >C previous camera >v next vehicle >V previous vehicle >SPACE pause/unpause >Additionally, there are some new ones (l,L for next/previous lap) >---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

What I dislike is having to go from steering device (in my case a joystick) to mouse to support simple functional changes. N1 automatically gave you a replay "preview" upon hitting ESC, in N2 you have to diddle with the mouse to get the screen, then go around with the pointer to change the view, go to the forward/backward/ start of replay/end of replay, then go back over to view, then..... well, you get the idea. Then, when you are done with all of this, you have to mouse over to the selection to go back to the other screen, then go to the race.... well, I repeat myself. By the way, DO NOT hit ESC when you are in qualifying, like you forgot too late to change the QUAL setup selection, because this is over on another screen, that you have to mouse over to, then mouse back, etc, because if you DO hit EXC, you just blew your qualifying, and you are stuck in the back of the pack. So, to recover, you have to mouse over to the track screen and reselect the same track, go thru the same BS to get to where you were. The amount of needless mousing back and forth between screens without simple keyboard control is borderline absurd. BTW, I may have not stated exactly the steps in the above examples, I only drew from memory some of the silly things I have experienced. I seriously question if anyone actually tested the sim for usability. Nascar2 has taken a serious step backward on flow and ease of use, in my opinion. N1 was slick and easy to use, N2 is irritating. Also, please notice (other than this factoid), I did not mention the missing savegame feature, a pretty basic feature of almost any game, much less than a Simulation.

There is absolutely no necessity to use the mouse once in the replay mode, other than to go to full screen viewing. Every other action, including reverting to small screen (Esc) can be accomplished by using keyboard shortcuts.....as outlined by JS in this thread. -- BruceK VR #31, Pro. Division VRE Site is [link lost in import]

The amount of

Quoted text (12 lines)

> needless mousing back and forth between screens without simple > keyboard control is borderline absurd. > BTW, I may have not stated exactly the steps in the above examples, > I only drew from memory some of the silly things I have experienced. > I seriously question if anyone actually tested the sim for usability. > Nascar2 has taken a serious step backward on flow and ease of use, in > my opinion. N1 was slick and easy to use, N2 is irritating. > Also, please notice (other than this factoid), I did not mention the > missing savegame feature, a pretty basic feature of almost any game, > much less than a Simulation.

There are several useful keyboard controls, same as N1 in N2. Also, I've found the mouse much faster and easier to move about the menus with than keyboard keys (wheel users couldn't use a joystick to menu up/down in N1). Face it, we're in a mouse world now. I was training a friend the other day on their office computer, as they had upgraded from an old DOS 286 to a new Pentium with win95. Pointing and clicking was a treacherous chore for them, as they struggled to figure out the mouse. But I suspect as they get more accustomed to it over the next few weeks, they'll learn to like it. My point is that yes, mousing for some people is difficult, but if you're really used to it, it can be very fast and easy.

Quoted text (7 lines)

> The 2 main reasons why my serious racing will be on N1are; I prefer to >race lengths 50-100% but cannot set aside that kind of time always so the >SAVE GAME feature is a must. I also enjoy working with the replay feature >and to have to fiddle with the mouse in this program is a royal pain >compared to the "old" way. > (etc.)

Dave - sorry to hear your impressions on NASCAR II. We are looking into adding save game in a patch, but still can't promise if/when that might arrive. On the replay subject, I think you'd find the NASCAR II replay considerably more useful than the original, especially if you do any post-race analysis. There is telemetry information in the replay so you can see laps and positions throughout the race, as well as speeds. All of the old keyboard commands still work in the NASCAR II replay. There is also an undocumented keyboard command to move forward/backward through the replay by a lap at a time - use "L" and "shift-L" keys to go forward/back a lap. I hope you'll take another look at NASCAR II's replay, if thats an area where you feel the original was better than the sequel ... I put a lot of effort into keeping that screen keyboard-friendly as well as trying to make it more useful for race analysis, and I spend a lot of time on the screen myself so I think I'm pretty well tuned in to how the user interface flow works there. If you've got any specific suggestions that you think might improve the useability of the NASCAR II replay, you're welcome to send me email on the subject. Charlie Heath Papyrus

IMO - the new replay with telemetry is very good. It is extremely useful when modifying the LP files - 'cause I can see exactly where the AI cars slow down etc. /THansen

> The amount of > > needless mousing back and forth between screens without simple > > keyboard control is borderline absurd. "This" babble is absurd. One who gripes about such minute things as mouse control needs to take this sim back, because thats what it needs to be critiqued as, A SIM! Not a mouse device. And the babble just keeps comin'.... ..and...comin'.... Which is "neanderthaw" compared to N2. You sound like my grandmather! Always ***in' about the littlest formalaties. Bottom line: If your gona waste bandwith on criticizing something, then give credit where credits due. Nascar2 has transformed into a much more seasoned sim than N1. The IA are ten times as good as N1, the control of the car is ten times better, the replays give all the options and more than N1, the cars are a hell of alot better modeled and dont change to "block" form when watching them on replay, You can paint more of the car in paintkit, and on and on and on..... The framerate is faster than N1, the multiplayer is better, because you can set options on-line,...and on and on and on.......nuff said! -David Gary- Cheer! (a dishwashing detergent) Bullocks (a way to restrain male cows)