Flip at Martinsville

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> > I personally have no problems with binaries either (I just ignore > > them), but many use off-line newsreaders and it's not fair to force > > them to download attachments. Binaries groups were created for this > > purpose. It's just common courtesy to not post them in a discussion > > group such as this. > I see your point, Eric. But, it is also important to include pcx's like > the "flip at martinsville" for discussion....If someone makes a claim like > that...I WANT TO SEE IT. > Also.....like the Daytona USA pictures that stupid Joel Putty put up.....I > was dumb enough to look at them....but I just had to look!!!! I don't > think that there is anything wrong with posting binaries in this > group.....In fact, this is the only group I monitor!!!! And posting these > items leads to NEW discussion.....

EXACTLY! -DG-

Please don`t post pcx. files here as mr. busch can`t help himself when it comes to clicking on the file,and it wastes at least 30 seconds of his time.I really don`t give a damb if you do or not,but some people don`t have a meeting place for a twelve step program for mouse abuse.

I personally have no problems with binaries either (I just ignore them), but many use off-line newsreaders and it's not fair to force them to download attachments. Binaries groups were created for this purpose. It's just common courtesy to not post them in a discussion group such as this. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

I see your point, Eric. But, it is also important to include pcx's like the "flip at martinsville" for discussion....If someone makes a claim like that...I WANT TO SEE IT. Also.....like the Daytona USA pictures that stupid Joel Putty put up.....I was dumb enough to look at them....but I just had to look!!!! I don't think that there is anything wrong with posting binaries in this group.....In fact, this is the only group I monitor!!!! And posting these items leads to NEW discussion.....

While they can spawn discussion, they still don't belong in this group. This is NOT a binaries newsgroup. It never has been, and hopefully never will become one. Why is this concept so hard for people to understand? Is it asking to much to say something like, "Hey, I just say the coolest thing at Martinsville. I posted a PCX in alt.binaries.simulators.autos and put a copy on my webpage, check it out: http://my.web.page/flip.pcx" That way you still can see the pcx if they want to without having to have them posted here. Everybody wins. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

AND, with the newest versions of free agent/agent, you can click on the URL and your web browser will automatically bring up that web link, without no more effort than double clicking on the highlighted link in the message... (just as easy as downloading the binary from the newsgroup)

This is not intended as a flame, but for information sake... On 5 Jan 1997 19:25:26 GMT, "Joshua Walsh"

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>> I personally have no problems with binaries either (I just ignore >> them), but many use off-line newsreaders and it's not fair to force >> them to download attachments. Binaries groups were created for this >> purpose. It's just common courtesy to not post them in a discussion >> group such as this. >I see your point, Eric. But, it is also important to include pcx's like >the "flip at martinsville" for discussion....If someone makes a claim like >that...I WANT TO SEE IT.

Fine, let them *discuss* it here (which is what this newsgroup is for) and post the binaries to a *binaries-only* newsgroup. Alt.binaries.simulators.autos was *created specifically* for that purpose. If you don't have that newsgroup, you can request that your ISP provide it, or ask the poster to email the file to you or to post it to a web site or ftp site. It sounds like you should get around a bit more on Usenet and learn how things work. Subscribe to news.announce.newsusers for valuable newbie information. When you understand that every time a *single binary message* is posted to this newsgroup, it has to be transmitted to and stored on many *thousands* of news servers around the world. Taking up space that could be used by scores of useful text messages. Causing some news servers to drop Usenet groups that they feel are a waste of space. All because a few uninformed, stubborn, or selfish individuals don't follow the rules. It makes much more sense to handle binaries through proper channels. Following the rules of common courtesy and newsgroup etiquette don't hurt anyone (unless you're John Daugherty; it *does* seem to pain him so ;). Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking... Did he complain to five or six postmasters? "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you, punk?

I personally have no problems with binaries either (I just ignore them), but many use off-line newsreaders and it's not fair to force them to download attachments. Binaries groups were created for this purpose. It's just common courtesy to not post them in a discussion group such as this. Agreed. Mr Eric Seems too think he is the new king in this group. More of my hard drive space is wasted on Mr Eric's Endless spewing of his beloved Intergraph, and ***ing about CR labs,And answering all these posts with his So intellegent and knowlegable replies. hehe- Right. SURE. That a few binaries is nothing compared too all his Hot Air. I happen too enjoy a few interesting binaries and pix in this group, People like too share a few interesting pix n files is ok with me. GO FOR IT. Considering that The Auto sim binaries group is all spam and ***, knowone goes there anyway.

This is not intended as a flame, but for information sake...

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> On 5 Jan 1997 19:25:26 GMT, "Joshua Walsh" >> I personally have no problems with binaries either (I just ignore >> them), but many use off-line newsreaders and it's not fair to force >> them to download attachments. Binaries groups were created for this >> purpose. It's just common courtesy to not post them in a discussion >> group such as this. >I see your point, Eric. But, it is also important to include pcx's

like >the "flip at martinsville" for discussion....If someone makes a claim like >that...I WANT TO SEE IT. Fine, let them *discuss* it here (which is what this newsgroup is for) and post the binaries to a *binaries-only* newsgroup. Alt.binaries.simulators.autos was *created specifically* for that purpose. If you don't have that newsgroup, you can request that your ISP provide it, or ask the poster to email the file to you or to post it to a web site or ftp site. >Also.....like the Daytona USA pictures that stupid Joel Putty put up.....I >was dumb enough to look at them....but I just had to look!!!! I don't >think that there is anything wrong with posting binaries in this >group.....In fact, this is the only group I monitor!!!! And posting these >items leads to NEW discussion..... It sounds like you should get around a bit more on Usenet and learn how things work. Subscribe to news.announce.newsusers for valuable newbie information. When you understand that every time a *single binary message* is posted to this newsgroup, it has to be transmitted to and stored on many *thousands* of news servers around the world. Taking up space that could be used by scores of useful text messages. Causing some news servers to drop Usenet groups that they feel are a waste of space. All because a few uninformed, stubborn, or selfish individuals don't follow the rules. It makes much more sense to handle binaries through proper channels. Following the rules of common courtesy and newsgroup etiquette don't hurt anyone (unless you're Eric T. Busch; it *does* seem to pain him so ;). http://www.wizvax.net/jvincent/ Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking... Did he complain to five or six postmasters? "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you, punk?

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>Agreed. Mr Eric Seems too think he is the new king in this group. >More of my hard drive space is wasted on Mr Eric's Endless spewing >of his beloved Intergraph, and ***ing about CR labs,And answering all these >posts with his So intellegent and knowlegable replies. hehe- Right. SURE. >That a few binaries is nothing compared too all his Hot Air. >I happen too enjoy a few interesting binaries and pix in this group, People >like too share a few interesting pix n files is ok with me. GO FOR IT.

<biting tongue> Hmmm.... That must be because people are not following the rules in that newsgroup. Sound Familiar??? Go there and get a preview of where this group is headed. Mike Radler

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>These rules were established a long time ago. Eric Busch didn't just invent >them. He's trying to help maintain harmony that's existed on Usenet since >before there was a World Wide Web. >Unfortunately, there's a crop of newbies coming to the Net that have no >idea what the existing 'rules of conduct' are. They don't care either. They >won't even bother to read the posts in 'news.announce.newusers'. I may be >skeptical but I'm afraid that things are going to continue to get worse. So >bad that even... this current crop of newbies will be probably be >complaining at a future generation of newbies.

As it always is... There is an auto-killbot that runs periodically and cancels binaries in non-binaries groups. The problem is that by the way news propogates, there will be many sites that will show the binary post for a couple days until the post gets to the killbot and the cancel message propogates around. No two ways about it: discussion in discussion groups and binaries in binaries is the way to go, but for most people who are relatively new, they aren't aware of this custom. As they spend more and more time on-line, they become aware, see the need for this custom, and tend to abide by it (and thus metamorphisize from being newbies to good net.citizens) Those who are aware of the custom and choose to ignore it are generally incorrigible and time spent trying to educate them is blowing in the wind. I've said my last on this topic here (at least for a while), as this newsgroup was not setup to discuss binary posting policy; it was setup to discuss auto simulators... Further replies and discussion by e-mail... ---Jim Sokoloff, speaking for myself, as Papyrus has no official policy on the posting of binaries to the net :-)

Actually I think you are the one full of hot air. Eric is simply pointing out some basic etiquette and you some back with this crap. I believe Eric is one of the more knowledgeable people on this newsgroup and I have found him to be a nice guy and extremely helpful. If the person that posted the pic does not have a problem with Eric's reminder then why do you? You are obviously some little weasel that has nothing better to do than insult decent people. Regards, ---Wayne.

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> I personally have no problems with binaries either (I just ignore > them), but many use off-line newsreaders and it's not fair to force > them to download attachments. Binaries groups were created for this > purpose. It's just common courtesy to not post them in a discussion > group such as this. > >Please don`t post pcx. files here as mr. busch can`t help himself > >when it comes to clicking on the file,and it wastes at least 30 seconds > >of his time.I really don`t give a damb if you do or not,but some people > >don`t have a meeting place for a twelve step program for mouse abuse. > Agreed. Mr Eric Seems too think he is the new king in this group. > More of my hard drive space is wasted on Mr Eric's Endless spewing > of his beloved Intergraph, and ***ing about CR labs,And answering all

these > posts with his So intellegent and knowlegable replies. hehe- Right. SURE. > That a few binaries is nothing compared too all his Hot Air. > I happen too enjoy a few interesting binaries and pix in this group, People > like too share a few interesting pix n files is ok with me. GO FOR IT. > Considering that The Auto sim binaries group is all spam and ***, knowone > goes there anyway.

I looked on "http://my.web.page/flip.pcx" and di not see any pix... -Andy SNIPPED AGAIN Just kidding :)))))

> Agreed. Mr Eric Seems too think he is the new king in this group. No, he doesn't. What he's *asking* is that people show some consideration for those of us (not me) who have to download *** like your post in order to read it offline. Mostly he offers advice to those that need it, and uses his considerable technical knowledge where he feels it's useful. Have you done the same recently? I don't mind it either, but it's not what RAS is for. USENET is going to hell in a handbasket, but *we* don't have to contribute to it. In the meantime > CLUE < Use this one, you seem to be without. Neil -- | \| |/ _ \ | | Neil Yeatman | |\ | __/ | | Ajax, Ontario, CANADA |_| \_|\___|_|_|

..If you have a web page to post it to. I don't see the problem with posting a moderate size binary to a relative discussion group if it sparks interest. Relax, the majority of readers in this group will have a normal on-line news reader. I like binaries such as this in this group. Why would I want to jump software to view something that I can just view here in this group. This does not bother 99% of the readers. DaMan

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>I looked on "http://my.web.page/flip.pcx" and di not see any pix... >-Andy >SNIPPED >>Is it asking to much to say something like, "Hey, I just say the >>coolest thing at Martinsville. I posted a PCX in >>alt.binaries.simulators.autos and put a copy on my webpage, check it >>out: http://my.web.page/flip.pcx" >SNIPPED AGAIN >Just kidding :)))))

hehehehehehe

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>Agreed. Mr Eric Seems too think he is the new king in this group. >More of my hard drive space is wasted on Mr Eric's Endless spewing >of his beloved Intergraph, and ***ing about CR labs,And answering all these >posts with his So intellegent and knowlegable replies. hehe- Right. SURE. >That a few binaries is nothing compared too all his Hot Air. >I happen too enjoy a few interesting binaries and pix in this group, People >like too share a few interesting pix n files is ok with me. GO FOR IT. >Considering that The Auto sim binaries group is all spam and ***, knowone >goes there anyway.

Anyone can criticize. It takes a little effort to find the good in things. If people would POST in the auto sim binaries, then it wouldn't be overrun by spam and *** now, would it?

: : > I personally have no problems with binaries either (I just ignore : > them), but many use off-line newsreaders and it's not fair to force : > them to download attachments. Binaries groups were created for this : > purpose. It's just common courtesy to not post them in a discussion : > group such as this. : : I see your point, Eric. But, it is also important to include pcx's like : the "flip at martinsville" for discussion....If someone makes a claim like : that...I WANT TO SEE IT. : : Also.....like the Daytona USA pictures that stupid Joel Putty put up.....I : was dumb enough to look at them....but I just had to look!!!! I don't : think that there is anything wrong with posting binaries in this : group.....In fact, this is the only group I monitor!!!! And posting these : items leads to NEW discussion..... A better way to do it would be to put the picture on a web page somewhere, and then post a message to this group with the URL. That way, no binaries get sent to this group, and people who want to see the picture can do so. That also cancels out the "My ISP doesn't have alt.binaries.*" argument. Everyone's happy. I'm also interested in how this picture was taken, since N2 only has a 2D physics model (right?) Is it fake? -- NOTE: the email address in the headers above is purposely incorrect, to prevent spam email. To email me, delete the '9' from the beginning of the address.

Too bad you aren't controlling the newsgroups. As it is, the posting of binaries in groups other that those designated for them leads to chasti***t from the newsgroup monitors, and they just delete the things and post *** grams to the newsgroups. But hey, no one ever got hurt from a *** gram, right! :-)

N2 has a 2D physics model. At the Martinsville track, there is a "discontinuity" inside one (perhaps both) of the turns. It's a limitation of our current generation of track tools, and leaving this there was the only way to get the rest of the geometry accurate. It was not a doctored picture; given enough patience, you could get the game to recreate it. (Of course, your time would better be spent racing the sim than trying to recreate that, or participating in this particular thread of "Don't do it; go ahead and do it...") ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

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> ..If you have a web page to post it to. I don't see the problem with posting > a moderate size binary to a relative discussion group if it sparks interest. > Relax, the majority of readers in this group will have a normal on-line news > reader. I like binaries such as this in this group. Why would I want to jump > software to view something that I can just view here in this group. This does > not bother 99% of the readers. > DaMan

How do you know it doesn't bother 99% of the readers??? I'd like to get a copy of your polling software, and find out how it polled me and the others in that 99% without us knowing. I don't recall seeing you post a query asking everyone's opinion, yet you seem to be the expert. All bow down and worship at the altar of DaMan; NOT! My friend, you can only speak for yourself here. I personally don't have the capability right now for a kill file, so I'm stuck with the likes of John(somebody please notice me or I'm gonna kick the dog) Daugherty. Also I have to manually stop the binary download every time I encounter one. Whether or not I want binaries in this group, please don't speak for the rest of us! Mike -- ___ _ ____ _____ ____ ____ _____ | \ | | / _ \| ___| / ___| / _ \| __ \ | \ | || | | || |___ | | | | | || |__| | | |\ \| || |_| ||___ || | | |_| || _ / | | \ || _ | ___| || |___ | _ || | \ \ |_| \__||_| |_||_____| \____||_| |_||_| \_\ Go fast, Turn left!

This is my point exactly.....I don't have a web page and alot of people don't maintain web pages. Nor do I have access to alt.binaries.autos.simulators on my News Server and I do NOT intend changing Internet Service Providers. Also, if all the anti-binaries people don't like it, make a kill-type file.....You can make it so that messages over a certain amount of lines will not be viewed. You people who are anti-binary sound like a bunch of miserable old men. I do not want this group to be clustered full of binary posts and neither does anyone else. I do not believe that would happen hear either as the people who post here (for the majority) are good people. Also, please do not take this post as an opportunity to flame the hell out of me....I know who's against binaries in the newsgroup and I like reading their posts and consider them to be well-read, intelligent people. However, if someone wants to write a reply arguing against my opinion, please do so....Flaming is another problem on this group. When did we lose the ability to communicate here? Can we carry on normal conversation without the uses of short derrogatory posts?.....If you disagree with someone, make it known to them...Don't FLAME them!!!! I myself have been guilty of flaming now and then as it is an easy way to blow off some steam....The next time I log on to the server though, I usually say something like, "What the hell was I thinking?" There is a line that must be drawn seperating humor and bad taste... Where the line is drawn is up to us. Josh Walsh (sirglock on Hawaii and TEN)

Why don't you ask someone who maintains a news server how much he/she enjoys having binaries posted in discussion groups? Many smaller news servers carry only discussion groups because they do not have the resources (disk space) to handle the load created by the binaries groups. When binaries posted to the discussion groups, they take away disk space which leaves less room for the intended discussion. In extreme instances, continued binary postings to discussion groups can lead to the sysadmins dropping that newsgroup to remove the strain on their system. While this FAQ deals with bincancels, it has an introduction explaining the reasons why binaries belong in their designated groups. If you've never read it, I highly suggest you do: http://ursula.uoregon.edu/~geniac/binfaq.txt -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

On 11 Jan 1997 00:40:00 GMT, "Joshua Walsh" > This is my point exactly.....I don't have a web page and alot of people >don't maintain web pages. Nor do I have access to >alt.binaries.autos.simulators on my News Server and I do NOT intend >changing Internet Service Providers. Also, if all the anti-binaries people >don't like it, make a kill-type file.....You can make it so that messages >over a certain amount of lines will not be viewed. 1) It's alt.binaries.simulators.autos, which might be why you haven't been able to find it. If your ISP doesn't carry it, and you want it, ask them for it. (Traffic to that group is quite light, and you are your ISP's customer; they need to provide you with enough of what you want, or you do need to change ISPs or live with your current limitataions...) 2) Does the fact that YOUR ISP doesn't carry a group you want grant you (figuratively, not necessarily "YOU") the right to spew binary posts into any old group you feel like? I wouldn't think so, just as the fact that my house lacks convenient indoor plumbing wouldn't entitle me to spread my human waste material all over my neighbor's front yard would it? 3) There is a killbot that auto-cancels binary posts in most non-binary groups. However, people with offline newsreaders still have to download it, because it's not (generally) killed in time. Off-line newsreaders still parse their "kill files" locally, so sure I don't have to see the post, but I still pay to download it. 4) ISP's planning news server disk allocation should be able to make certain inode assumptions about discussion newsgroups in setting up. If people don't bother to follow the generally accepted customs (aka nettiquette), no one wins. (Except for those people whose ISP refuses to carry a group that their customers want, which should be a problem for that customer and that ISP to work out between themselves, rather than flinging binary posts willy-nilly to just any old group...) ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus, again, speaking totally for myself.

On 11 Jan 1997 00:40:00 GMT, "Joshua Walsh" > This is my point exactly.....I don't have a web page and alot of people >don't maintain web pages. Nor do I have access to >alt.binaries.autos.simulators on my News Server and I do NOT intend >changing Internet Service Providers. Also, if all the anti-binaries people >don't like it, make a kill-type file.....You can make it so that messages >over a certain amount of lines will not be viewed. Have you *requested* that your ISP carry "alt.binaries.simulators. autos" (the correct name of the group)? You can tell them that its a low-traffic binaries group if they are hesitant. Its interesting what you mention about web pages. Some guy from Portugal was posting some great pictures of a F86 Sabre jet in the alt.binaries.models.scale newsgroup. They were a great resource but he was only offering them via Usenet. I thought that they deserved a more permanent home, more available to everyone, so I have contacted him and I'll soon have these pictures (3 meg worth) on my web page. With all of the N2 web pages out there, I find it hard to believe that *someone* wouldn't offer to host any significant binaries that you offer them. Also, your "solution" doesn't address the problems of potential discussion bandwidth wasted by binaries in this group on servers around the world. Grumble, grumble... ;) How do you know that the majority of people here (much less the significant minority sufficient to wreak havoc) *agree* with you on what a "reasonable" level of binaries is? Do *you* trust the Putty's and the Daugherty's and the MillerTime's? It's ironic that you have your own (unspecified) threshold at which you'll complain, just like us grumpy old men. ;) Why not stick to an established, explicit standard (*no* binaries in discussion groups)? I hope this isn't interpreted that way. Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking... Did he complain to five or six postmasters last month? Now, you must ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you, punk?

>2) Does the fact that YOUR ISP doesn't carry a group you want grant >you (figuratively, not necessarily "YOU") the right to spew binary >posts into any old group you feel like? I wouldn't think so, just as >the fact that my house lacks convenient indoor plumbing wouldn't >entitle me to spread my human waste material all over my neighbor's >front yard would it? Hi Jim, See what happens when you make a crack about plumbers!!! I hope you get things worked out with your neighbor<BG> Sorry, couldn't resist. (not a plumber)

Which means, layed out for the "slow minded", that while you don't care if binaries show up in here, you might not like it if your ISP DROPS rec.autos.simulators from their news-server. hehehehe talk about learning the HARD way!