Daytona and Indy

Everyone seems to be doing alot of moaning and groaning about daytona and indy tracks for N2. Well guys it's not doing much good here. Pappy wants the tracks just as bad as you do, lot of revenue there huh? Why don't we try another way to get the tracks we want? If someone out there knows the email address that Tony George and Daytona USA can be reached at. With all of the people in this group our point can be made.

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> Everyone seems to be doing alot of moaning and groaning about daytona > and indy tracks for N2. Well guys it's not doing much good here. Pappy > wants the tracks just as bad as you do, lot of revenue there huh? > Why don't we try another way to get the tracks we want? If someone out > there knows the email address that Tony George and Daytona USA can be > reached at. With all of the people in this group our point can be > made.

You don't think Tony George gives a shit about the FANS do you? If he did he would never have turned the Indy 500 into a farce and put dogshit IRL drivers and teams on the track. Tony George only cares about one thing, power. The fans can get screwed. Mike

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> > Everyone seems to be doing alot of moaning and groaning about daytona > > and indy tracks for N2. Well guys it's not doing much good here. Pappy > > wants the tracks just as bad as you do, lot of revenue there huh? > > Why don't we try another way to get the tracks we want? If someone out > > there knows the email address that Tony George and Daytona USA can be > > reached at. With all of the people in this group our point can be > > made. > You don't think Tony George gives a shit about the FANS do you? If he > did he would never have turned the Indy 500 into a farce and put dogshit > IRL drivers and teams on the track. Tony George only cares about one > thing, power. The fans can get screwed. > Mike

Obviously you don`t know much about Tony George. Fact #1 The Hulman family ARE the most powerful people in racing. Always have been,always will be. Tony George is not trying to flex his power.If he did then you WOULD see some fireworks. Fact #2 Tony George is also a *** DRIVER himself, not just some suit and tie delegating authority. He loves the fans of auto racing and has shown it time and time again to the people of Indianapolis let alone the rest of the racing community. Fact #3 The reason for the IRL is to bring Indycar racing back to where it belongs--OVALS. Plus to make it more affordable to the guy that otherwise would never be able to get involved in the sport. Fact #4 The IRL is set up to make Indycar racing more competitive,instead of having Al"let me ram this guy into the wall" Unser jr or Michael "If I don`t when every race it`s someone elses fault" Andretti win because they have owners that have pockets that stretch all the way to China. And finally Fact #5 Probably the most important reason for the IRL is to slow the cars down to semi sane speeds. I`ll bet Scott Brayton`s beautiful wife and adorable little girl wish Tony had done it sooner. But then again you may be right, but I seriously doubt it.

If the CART circut is so great why are drivers going to Nascar (like Robby Gordon and John Andretti), and why did one of the greatest drivers in all of Indycar Racing history move over to the IRL. Because the cars were getting to dangerous and the racing was to boring. BTW, I think it seems to me that Nascar has provided a great challenge for Indycar drivers (competition wise and driving skill). And did I forget the Tony Stewart is moving to Nascar next year.

writes: Reading some one-sided reports on TG, Mike...? Best Regards, Marc

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> >Fact #3 The reason for the IRL is to bring Indycar racing back to where > >it belongs--OVALS. Plus to make it more affordable to the guy that > >otherwise would never be able to get involved in the sport. > "Racing" and "affordable" shouldn't even be in the same sentence. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Winston Cup Busch South NCTS > Busch North Mod Tour IGN 93 0 43 > Busch North Info at http://www.vgernet.net/aclaffie/bgnn/ > NASCAR in the Northeast - the best racing nobody's seen - Yet

I think you now what I meant,sure they still have to be able to lay those hot little hands on alot of cash.But in the IRL,just not nearly the amount they needed to run in Cart.Plus Tony George has arranged for loans to teams in need of operating cash with a certain bank.

>Fact #3 The reason for the IRL is to bring Indycar racing back to where >it belongs--OVALS. Plus to make it more affordable to the guy that >otherwise would never be able to get involved in the sport. "Racing" and "affordable" shouldn't even be in the same sentence. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Winston Cup Busch South NCTS Busch North Mod Tour IGN 93 0 43 Busch North Info at http://www.vgernet.net/aclaffie/bgnn/ NASCAR in the Northeast - the best racing nobody's seen - Yet

>>Fact #3 The reason for the IRL is to bring Indycar racing back to where >>it belongs--OVALS. Plus to make it more affordable to the guy that >>otherwise would never be able to get involved in the sport. >"Racing" and "affordable" shouldn't even be in the same sentence. ...unless there's a negating word in that sentence... :-) ---Jim

: If the CART circut is so great why are drivers going to Nascar (like : Robby Gordon and John Andretti), and why did one of the greatest drivers : in all of Indycar Racing history move over to the IRL. Because the cars : were getting to dangerous and the racing was to boring. BTW, I think it : seems to me that Nascar has provided a great challenge for Indycar : drivers (competition wise and driving skill). And did I forget the Tony : Stewart is moving to Nascar next year. Well let's see, John Andretti got a better offer from NASCAR. Robby Gordon was not doing well in CART, his driving style and agressiveness will fit better in NASCAR. Now, just who are we talking about, "one of the greatest drivers"? Could we be talking about A.J. Foyt? Well he left CART because he had issues with CART that he could not get resolved to his liking. On another issue, I am tired of hearing the Tony George wanted to make IRL safer than CART. Is this why he undid the safety features to the Indy Track? Is this why he allowed the drivers to drive in cars which did not even match CART's 1996 safety codes? Don't get me wrong, there's room for another open-wheel racing series. Let's just get the facts right. Tony's in it for the glory and the money. That's what they are all in it for. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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> : If the CART circut is so great why are drivers going to Nascar (like > : Robby Gordon and John Andretti), and why did one of the greatest drivers > : in all of Indycar Racing history move over to the IRL. Because the cars > : were getting to dangerous and the racing was to boring. BTW, I think it > : seems to me that Nascar has provided a great challenge for Indycar > : drivers (competition wise and driving skill). And did I forget the Tony > : Stewart is moving to Nascar next year. > Well let's see, John Andretti got a better offer from NASCAR. Robby > Gordon was not doing well in CART, his driving style and agressiveness > will fit better in NASCAR. > Now, just who are we talking about, "one of the greatest drivers"? > Could we be talking about A.J. Foyt? Well he left CART because he had > issues with CART that he could not get resolved to his liking. > On another issue, I am tired of hearing the Tony George wanted to make > IRL safer than CART. Is this why he undid the safety features to the > Indy Track? Is this why he allowed the drivers to drive in cars which > did not even match CART's 1996 safety codes? Don't get me wrong, > there's room for another open-wheel racing series. Let's just get the > facts right. Tony's in it for the glory and the money. That's what > they are all in it for. > -- > **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

My my my,how little you know. I`m amazed you can find you way to the keyboard each day.

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> > : If the CART circut is so great why are drivers going to Nascar (like > > : Robby Gordon and John Andretti), and why did one of the greatest drivers > > : in all of Indycar Racing history move over to the IRL. Because the cars > > : were getting to dangerous and the racing was to boring. BTW, I think it > > : seems to me that Nascar has provided a great challenge for Indycar > > : drivers (competition wise and driving skill). And did I forget the Tony > > : Stewart is moving to Nascar next year. > > Well let's see, John Andretti got a better offer from NASCAR. Robby > > Gordon was not doing well in CART, his driving style and agressiveness > > will fit better in NASCAR. > > Now, just who are we talking about, "one of the greatest drivers"? > > Could we be talking about A.J. Foyt? Well he left CART because he had > > issues with CART that he could not get resolved to his liking. > > On another issue, I am tired of hearing the Tony George wanted to make > > IRL safer than CART. Is this why he undid the safety features to the > > Indy Track? Is this why he allowed the drivers to drive in cars which > > did not even match CART's 1996 safety codes? Don't get me wrong, > > there's room for another open-wheel racing series. Let's just get the > > facts right. Tony's in it for the glory and the money. That's what > > they are all in it for. > My my my,how little you know. I`m amazed you can find you way to the > keyboard each day.

Hmmm ... you seem to know even less, given the facts and insights included in your post. I happen to agree with Michael, and I don't see how you can agrue with him without revealing your opinions ... -- Henrikki (Hena) Hakkanen Tel. +358-(9)0-345 5538 -------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer

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> > > : If the CART circut is so great why are drivers going to Nascar (like > > > : Robby Gordon and John Andretti), and why did one of the greatest drivers > > > : in all of Indycar Racing history move over to the IRL. Because the cars > > > : were getting to dangerous and the racing was to boring. BTW, I think it > > > : seems to me that Nascar has provided a great challenge for Indycar > > > : drivers (competition wise and driving skill). And did I forget the Tony > > > : Stewart is moving to Nascar next year. > > > Well let's see, John Andretti got a better offer from NASCAR. Robby > > > Gordon was not doing well in CART, his driving style and agressiveness > > > will fit better in NASCAR. > > > Now, just who are we talking about, "one of the greatest drivers"? > > > Could we be talking about A.J. Foyt? Well he left CART because he had > > > issues with CART that he could not get resolved to his liking. > > > On another issue, I am tired of hearing the Tony George wanted to make > > > IRL safer than CART. Is this why he undid the safety features to the > > > Indy Track? Is this why he allowed the drivers to drive in cars which > > > did not even match CART's 1996 safety codes? Don't get me wrong, > > > there's room for another open-wheel racing series. Let's just get the > > > facts right. Tony's in it for the glory and the money. That's what > > > they are all in it for. > > My my my,how little you know. I`m amazed you can find you way to the > > keyboard each day. > Hmmm ... you seem to know even less, given the facts and insights > included > in your post. I happen to agree with Michael, and I don't see how you > can > agrue with him without revealing your opinions ... > -- > Henrikki (Hena) Hakkanen Tel. +358-(9)0-345 5538 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are mine and do not > necessarily reflect those of my employer

I just know he`s wrong and I`m right-- simple! END OF STORY.

I bet Sir Winston Churchill had thought of that argument in 1940, then none of his other inspirational speeches would have been necessary to inspire everyone. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

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> >I just know he`s wrong and I`m right-- simple! END OF STORY. > I bet Sir Winston Churchill had thought of that argument in 1940, then > none of his other inspirational speeches would have been necessary to > inspire everyone. > Cheers! > John > _________________________________ > __ _____| |_____ __ > ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ > \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < > / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ > /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \._____\ > [link lost in import: /~harmon/simnews]

Good point!

My, my, how little time you've spent on this group to be casting nasturtiums at people. I'm amazed that you don't just put both feet in your mouth and be done with it.... Cheers! ;) John PS - What I'm saying here is, Mike is a well respected cat around these here parts, and I, for one, think he deserves a little more time spent on a reply than the one you gave his well thought out post. Just striking a blow for a friendlier, more intellectually stimulating r.a.s. _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

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>> : If the CART circut is so great why are drivers going to Nascar (like >> : Robby Gordon and John Andretti), and why did one of the greatest drivers >> : in all of Indycar Racing history move over to the IRL. Because the cars >> : were getting to dangerous and the racing was to boring. BTW, I think it >> : seems to me that Nascar has provided a great challenge for Indycar >> : drivers (competition wise and driving skill). And did I forget the Tony >> : Stewart is moving to Nascar next year. >> Well let's see, John Andretti got a better offer from NASCAR. Robby >> Gordon was not doing well in CART, his driving style and agressiveness >> will fit better in NASCAR. >> Now, just who are we talking about, "one of the greatest drivers"? >> Could we be talking about A.J. Foyt? Well he left CART because he had >> issues with CART that he could not get resolved to his liking. >> On another issue, I am tired of hearing the Tony George wanted to make >> IRL safer than CART. Is this why he undid the safety features to the >> Indy Track? Is this why he allowed the drivers to drive in cars which >> did not even match CART's 1996 safety codes? Don't get me wrong, >> there's room for another open-wheel racing series. Let's just get the >> facts right. Tony's in it for the glory and the money. That's what >> they are all in it for. >My my my,how little you know. I`m amazed you can find you way to the >keyboard each day.

Wow! yeah you sure told him? Care to let the rest of us know just what he said was incorrect and you happen to disagree with? I think most of us that have followed the unfortunate debacle that Tony George brought on Indycar racing would agree pretty much with what Michael said. Nothing wrong with starting another open-wheel racing series, but Tony went and ruined the tradition of the Indy 500 just for his own glory. I'm glad CART finally decided to quit using the Indy name, this will end much of the confusion for some of the not-as-well informed TV fans who tune in to IRL events wondering where is Little Al, Michael, and the rest of the upper quality drivers have gone, after the misleading adverti***t done by ABC and the IRL for some of these races IMHO. Oh and if you do want to post further in this thread, do list out why you disagree and spare us the childish name calling and insults. Cheers. --John -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

: >My my my,how little you know. I`m amazed you can find you way to the : >keyboard each day. : PS - What I'm saying here is, Mike is a well respected cat around these : here parts, and I, for one, think he deserves a little more time spent : on a reply than the one you gave his well thought out post. : Just striking a blow for a friendlier, more intellectually stimulating : r.a.s. Heck, I could have been wrong in my post. I know it's happened "once" before, I'm sure it's bound to happen "once" again. In a way I would like to get the second one out of the way ;-) I am always open to hearing the other side of an issue. But, I also know I was more than likely asking for it, since this whole thread sorta don't belong in r.a.s. But, hey J.D. please do enlighten us. I know that these kind of issues aren't really "black 'n white". That's why I was trying to show the other side of the issues. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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> >> : If the CART circut is so great why are drivers going to Nascar (like > >> : Robby Gordon and John Andretti), and why did one of the greatest drivers > >> : in all of Indycar Racing history move over to the IRL. Because the cars > >> : were getting to dangerous and the racing was to boring. BTW, I think it > >> : seems to me that Nascar has provided a great challenge for Indycar > >> : drivers (competition wise and driving skill). And did I forget the Tony > >> : Stewart is moving to Nascar next year. > >> Well let's see, John Andretti got a better offer from NASCAR. Robby > >> Gordon was not doing well in CART, his driving style and agressiveness > >> will fit better in NASCAR. > >> Now, just who are we talking about, "one of the greatest drivers"? > >> Could we be talking about A.J. Foyt? Well he left CART because he had > >> issues with CART that he could not get resolved to his liking. > >> On another issue, I am tired of hearing the Tony George wanted to make > >> IRL safer than CART. Is this why he undid the safety features to the > >> Indy Track? Is this why he allowed the drivers to drive in cars which > >> did not even match CART's 1996 safety codes? Don't get me wrong, > >> there's room for another open-wheel racing series. Let's just get the > >> facts right. Tony's in it for the glory and the money. That's what > >> they are all in it for. > >My my my,how little you know. I`m amazed you can find you way to the > >keyboard each day. > Wow! yeah you sure told him? Care to let the rest of us know just > what he said was incorrect and you happen to disagree with? > I think most of us that have followed the unfortunate debacle that > Tony George brought on Indycar racing would agree pretty much with > what Michael said. > Nothing wrong with starting another open-wheel racing series, but Tony > went and ruined the tradition of the Indy 500 just for his own glory. > I'm glad CART finally decided to quit using the Indy name, this will > end much of the confusion for some of the not-as-well informed TV fans > who tune in to IRL events wondering where is Little Al, Michael, > and the rest of the upper quality drivers have gone, after the misleading > adverti***t done by ABC and the IRL for some of these races IMHO.

Just one last comment in this thread.IMO Little Al,Michael and upper quality drivers do not belong in the same time zone let alone the same sentence.

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>> Wow! yeah you sure told him? Care to let the rest of us know just >> what he said was incorrect and you happen to disagree with? >> I think most of us that have followed the unfortunate debacle that >> Tony George brought on Indycar racing would agree pretty much with >> what Michael said. >> Nothing wrong with starting another open-wheel racing series, but Tony >> went and ruined the tradition of the Indy 500 just for his own glory. >> I'm glad CART finally decided to quit using the Indy name, this will >> end much of the confusion for some of the not-as-well informed TV fans >> who tune in to IRL events wondering where is Little Al, Michael, >> and the rest of the upper quality drivers have gone, after the misleading >> adverti***t done by ABC and the IRL for some of these races IMHO. >Just one last comment in this thread.IMO Little Al,Michael and >upper quality drivers do not belong in the same time zone let alone >the same sentence.

Well I admit that statement is a bit subjective, personally I thought Michael and lil'Al drove pretty well toward the end of last season so that is my opinion, but I could replace that by saying some of the MORE WELL KNOWN drivers, like Michael and Lil'Al, Paul Tracy etc. Cheers. --John -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

: >My my my,how little you know. I`m amazed you can find you way to the : >keyboard each day. : PS - What I'm saying here is, Mike is a well respected cat around these : here parts, and I, for one, think he deserves a little more time spent : on a reply than the one you gave his well thought out post. : Just striking a blow for a friendlier, more intellectually stimulating : r.a.s. Heck, I could have been wrong in my post. I know it's happened "once" before, I'm sure it's bound to happen "once" again. In a way I would like to get the second one out of the way ;-) I am always open to hearing the other side of an issue. But, I also know I was more than likely asking for it, since this whole thread sorta don't belong in r.a.s. But, hey J.D. please do enlighten us. I know that these kind of issues aren't really "black 'n white". That's why I was trying to show the other side of the issues. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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> > You don't think Tony George gives a shit about the FANS do you? If he > > did he would never have turned the Indy 500 into a farce and put dogshit > > IRL drivers and teams on the track. Tony George only cares about one > > thing, power. The fans can get screwed. > > Mike > Obviously you don`t know much about Tony George. > Fact #1 The Hulman family ARE the most powerful people in racing. > Always have been,always will be. Tony George is not trying to flex > his power.If he did then you WOULD see some fireworks.

Agreed. Agreed. Point of debate. It is your OPINION that Indycar racing belongs on ovals. I personally prefer oval racing to road racing but I'll admit that that doesn't make one better than the other (but I do feel NASCAR stock cars, or trucks, have no place on road courses, especially ones in Japan, but that's another thread). Again, point of debate, I watched the Indy 500 and it didn't seem much more competitive than CART's US 500, but at least they didn't tear up about a $1 mill worth of equipment before the start finish in Indy. But the thing you describe happens the same way in all forms of racing, NASCAR, indycar, dirt tracks, Formula 1, etc... I'm not sure I agree with you on this one, otherwise maybe they would have waited a year to repave the track, once they had the slower cars, no doubt he intended it as a sort of "bragging right" thing, but perhaps the new regulations were helped brought about by this trragedy. As a whole I find myself supporting what the IRL is trying to do, especially giving some of the most promising dirt track open wheel drivers in the nation a chance to live their dream, something that can't truly be said about CART. Having said this I will also say that I think it was a possibly fatal flaw in the plan, to reserve spots in the Indy 500 for IRL drivers. But with all new chassis and engines to be run, this becomes moot point after all. Brian Kinkaid