Is Nascar 2 a good buy?

I keep hearing you guys rant and rave about poor sound and no race save option in Nascar 2. I don't care about the sound because I usually turn my down so that I can just hear it, because if I turn it loud my whole family yells at me to TURN IT DOWN. guess it gets annoying to them after about 30 minutes. As far as race save, I dont care about this either, because 1) easy way to cheat in Nascar1 2) I never used it but maybe 10 times to , you guessed it, CHEAT. I know some of you may have legitiment reasons for wanting a race save option, but i don't. So what I'm really asking is, is N2 better than N1, and is it worth the 40-50 bucks I will have to shell out for it? I mean does all the added features that are in N2 make up for it's shortcomings? Neil Owens

This depends on the following in my opinion : - What you are looking for: The graphics are excellent and spotter is a great addition for both young and old. For serious racers - the spotter is very helpful. For kids and entertainment value - the spotter is fun. The new menu system and setup page is much improved from NASCAR 1 - in my opinion. However, the driving physics are very different and I for one am struggling to run up to speed at most of the tracks. It is fun running at Bristol and getting passed on both sides (yes - that is how slow I am - wow ??). I personally had gotten used to the loose physics in Nascar Racing 1. Expect many hours of re-learning how to drive. - Your hardware: I was not happy with NASCAR Racing 2 at all until I installed a P200 in what was a P120 system with an S3 VRAM adapter. I could not enable any graphics - so the new graphics were not a benefit. Also, N2 seems to have just a touch slower frame rates than N1. However, if you have a Rendition video adapter - I hear the frame rates and 3D effects are awesome. I will try this soon - although I cannot use a Rendition adapter full time until they get a Windows NT driver. With P200 installed - NASCAR Racing 2 is more enjoyable. There really are some great effects in the new simulation. - Your time and budget: 40-50 dollars is cheap relative to the big bucks hardware required to run the simulation at 30fps. You will be frustrated at first learning to drive tracks that you excelled at before - the physics are that different. - Your needs: I personally am having trouble with no save race weekend. I always randomize between qualifying and race to get some variation in the game. I think the element of surprise is important when you race against computer opponents. There is also a lot of work to do in order to get back all the utilities and tracks etc. that I had worked up for NASCAR Racing 1. Both NASCAR Racing 1 and NASCAR Racing 2 are fun sims. If the spotter and better graphics are important to you - and you have the PC capable of running it - NASCAR Racing 2 is worth it. /THansen

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> I keep hearing you guys rant and rave about poor sound and no race save > option in Nascar 2. > I don't care about the sound because I usually turn my down so that I can > just hear it, because if I turn it loud my whole family yells at me to > TURN IT DOWN. guess it gets annoying to them after about 30 minutes. As > far as race save, I dont care about this either, because > 1) easy way to cheat in Nascar1 > 2) I never used it but maybe 10 times to , you guessed it, CHEAT. > I know some of you may have legitiment reasons for wanting a race save > option, but i don't. > So what I'm really asking is, is N2 better than N1, and is it worth the > 40-50 bucks I will have to shell out for it? I mean does all the added > features that are in N2 make up for it's shortcomings? > Neil Owens

It's worth it. 1)better tracks 2)more realistic handling 3) the car reacts as if it has the mega-horsepower the real NASCAR cars have, the first time you floor it from a dead stop you understand what I mean. 4) The spotter is greet 5) The graphics are alot better but I believe you need a rendition video card to get the full benefit (mine should be arriving at my doorstep any minute now) 6)The car setup process is MUCH improved, done all on one screen with a place for comments and a print option 7) The computer controlled cars act alot more realistic- not like their runnin on rails 8) The paintkit is 10X better than in N1. Did I leave anything out???? Mick in Tampa -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | ____ ___ ___| | Mike Schreiner |CNSRL ADMIN. | ---\ / / /__ | |http://pages.prodigy.com/CNSRL | | --\ / /---/_ | | "Mick" on Hawaii |Earnhardt Rules!!| -\/ / / | | "Mick_S" on Ten | | / | ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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>I keep hearing you guys rant and rave about poor sound and no race save >option in Nascar 2. >I don't care about the sound because I usually turn my down so that I can >just hear it, because if I turn it loud my whole family yells at me to >TURN IT DOWN. guess it gets annoying to them after about 30 minutes. As >far as race save, I dont care about this either, because >1) easy way to cheat in Nascar1 >2) I never used it but maybe 10 times to , you guessed it, CHEAT. >I know some of you may have legitiment reasons for wanting a race save >option, but i don't. >So what I'm really asking is, is N2 better than N1, and is it worth the >40-50 bucks I will have to shell out for it? I mean does all the added >features that are in N2 make up for it's shortcomings? >Neil Owens

Plain and simple YES, YES, YES. If you liked Nas1 you wil LOVE Nas2!!! Wayne

Yes, as one of those R&R people, I belive I still have a good game here. The spotter is cool, until he goes spastic on you. Sometimes he doesn't seem to know where you are supposed to be on the track ( cautions ) and when a big werck occurs, he seems to get stuck on the ' wreck in turn two ', or whatever turn it happens to be. Ever since I upgraded my BIOS and began to see some decent frame rates, yes, I like it fine.

Question here. Has anyone noticed that if you floor the gas in ANY of the gears it will burn the tires just like you were in first? Or, have you jammed the nose against the wall, and floored the gas to see if you could blow the engine, but it just maxes out at around 8900. Also, I displayed the tire temps, and when jammed against the wall and spinning, the rear tires do not get excessively hot. In fact, they tend to cool down? And you ask: " Why would you do a dumb thing like that anyway? ". Because I wanted to see what would happen, that's why.

> > So what I'm really asking is, is N2 better than N1, and is it worth the > > 40-50 bucks I will have to shell out for it? You can buy it direct from Sierra if you have N1 for $29.95 plus shipping. Got mine in 3 days! Vacation starting tomorrow. Life is good. David

: Question here. Has anyone noticed that if you floor the gas in ANY of the : gears it will burn the tires just like you were in first? Or, have you : jammed the nose against the wall, and floored the gas to see if you could : blow the engine, but it just maxes out at around 8900. Also, I displayed : the tire temps, and when jammed against the wall and spinning, the rear : tires do not get excessively hot. In fact, they tend to cool down? Yea, I found the same, except I also found that you can jam the brakes just after the wheels let go and you won't move either as the wheels spin away. No tire warming though :( or even gas usage. I let the car sit with spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use. There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :( Matt

> I let the car sit with > spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use. > There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :( That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the rear tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)... I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

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> > I let the car sit with > > spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use. > > There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :( > That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the rear > tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)... > I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the > car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to > keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch... > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Never would of thoughta that! Glad YOU did. :) Mick in Tampa -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | ____ ___ ___| | Mike Schreiner |CNSRL ADMIN. | ---\ / / /__ | |http://pages.prodigy.com/CNSRL | | --\ / /---/_ | | "Mick" on Hawaii |Earnhardt Rules!!| -\/ / / | | "Mick_S" on Ten | | / | ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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> > > I let the car sit with > > > spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use. > > > There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :( > > That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the rear > > tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)... > > I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the > > car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to > > keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch... > > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus > Never would of thoughta that! Glad YOU did. :) > Mick in Tampa > -- > ______________________________________________________________________ > | | | ____ ___ ___| > | Mike Schreiner |CNSRL ADMIN. | ---\ / / /__ | > |http://pages.prodigy.com/CNSRL | | --\ / /---/_ | > | "Mick" on Hawaii |Earnhardt Rules!!| -\/ / / | > | "Mick_S" on Ten | | / | > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Very nicely done Jim. Thanks. I personally love the wheelspin feature since I hated having to baack up to get out of my pit. Ed

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>> I let the car sit with >> spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use. >> There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :( >That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the rear >tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)... >I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the >car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to >keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch... >---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Jim, I want to thank you. The wheelspin feature is especially nice in 2 instances: 1. leaving the pits in a tight pit lane (i.e., full cars at Richmond or Martinsville) 2. spun out on the track, especially in the groove. light the fire and spin 'er around and get out of there! in Nascar1 we all know how long it took to "turn around"... thanks again!

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> > I let the car sit with > > spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use. > > There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :( > That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the rear > tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)... > I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the > car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to > keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch... > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Bravo Jim, you did good. David Martin

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> > > > I let the car sit with > > > > spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use. > > > > There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :( > > > That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the rear > > > tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)... > > > I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the > > > car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to > > > keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch... > > > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus > > Never would of thoughta that! Glad YOU did. :) > > Mick in Tampa > Very nicely done Jim. Thanks. > I personally love the wheelspin feature since I hated having to baack up > to get out of my pit. > Ed

Yeah, the wheelspin feature is great! The perfect way to get out of a tight pit lane. Personally, I love doing donuts after the race. You can't celebrate a victory better after a race than doing about 4 or 5 donuts and watching it on the replay. With the tire smoke and everything, it looks very realistic. Another fun thing to do is run the car in reverse, turn the wheel sharply and spin the tires, you will do a perfect 180! It's a great move to turn around quickly and get going. After reading the posts in this newsgroup for a week, I was finally able to purchase a copy of N2 this weekend (it sold out at the software shop 2 weekends in a row!) and was surprised how great a game it is. A few annoying bugs that are well documented in this group, but I'm getting a slightly better framerate than N1 with cleaner graphics and all those groovy improvements like the spotter. Definately an improvement! -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + '||'''|. '||'''|, Douglas Bollinger + + || || || || Mt. Holly Springs, PA + + || || ||;;;; + + || || || || Doog on Kali + + .||...|' .||...|' Fighter Duel and Links LS + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ (D)inner not ready: (A)bort (R)etry (P)izza

I, too, really like the wheelspin, though it took some getting used to so that I didn't come back and smash the cars ahead of me. Hopefully, I'll never have to back up again! ChrisP

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> > I let the car sit with > > spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use. > > There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :( > That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the rear > tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)... > I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the > car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to > keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch... > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Good for you Jim!!! ;-) Keep up the great work. Love the game. Patch those minor bugs for us as soon as you can. Have a great holiday. Take some time to enjoy! Thanks again, Tony Joy

Spoil sport! :-)

Now why would you need to backup to get out of the pits? Turn the wheel all the way to the right, and go. No problem.. Is your Wheel LOCK way too low? -- Lannie Schafroth

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> >Very nicely done Jim. Thanks. > >I personally love the wheelspin feature since I hated having to baack up > >to get out of my pit. > >Ed > Now why would you need to backup to get out of the pits? Turn the wheel > all the way to the right, and go. No problem.. Is your Wheel LOCK way > too low? > -- > Lannie Schafroth

try running the short tracks, then you'll know why.

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> Now why would you need to backup to get out of the pits? Turn the wheel > all the way to the right, and go. No problem.. Is your Wheel LOCK way > too low? > -- > Lannie Schafroth

You must run 10 or more wheel lock at Talladega and some of the other large tracks, your not going to get the speed out of them with it set like that.You only need a 7 wheel lock at Dega, I think thats why the wheel spin is so nice. Try it,you`ll see some more speed at the larger tracks.

I guess you haven't messed with the track.txt files to increase the maximum number of cars. Try getting out of your pitstall at Sear Point with 39 other cars without using wheel spin or reverse. -- Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

Jim, I can see the logic in your decision but in real life I always punished the tires coming out of pit lane and on the first lap just for this specific reason. I wonder if you could inlcude some monitoring that would detect ridiculous behavior such as sitting against the pit mall with tires spinning and allow the car to behave more like the real thing with respect to wheel spin. Regards, ---Wayne. > > > I let the car sit with > > > spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use. > > > There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :( > > That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the rear

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> > tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)... > > I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the > > car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to > > keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch... > > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus > Good for you Jim!!! ;-) Keep up the great work. Love the game. Patch > those minor bugs for us as soon as you can. Have a great holiday. Take > some time to enjoy! > Thanks again, > Tony Joy

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>>Very nicely done Jim. Thanks. >>I personally love the wheelspin feature since I hated having to baack up >>to get out of my pit. >>Ed >Now why would you need to backup to get out of the pits? Turn the wheel >all the way to the right, and go. No problem.. Is your Wheel LOCK way >too low? >-- >Lannie Schafroth

I have a question for Jim (Papyrus), What did you guys do to the wheel lock on the cars? I was doing a little testing the other day. The turning radius of the car does not change *AT ALL* from about 9 degrees to 25 degrees. I was checking this at Charolette I think it was. I have a wheel that lets me run full wheel lock at all of the tracks. Again, what did you guys change from Nascar1? Why have the wheel lock option at all if it does not change the angle of the wheels in a full-turn situation? It does appear to alter the sensitivity on the track....but if that is what it is doing....shouldn't it be called something like "Steering Sensitivity"? It works OK the way it is now, but I am curious as to what you changed and why. If anyone else wants to test this out, I would be interested in your results. The way I was doing it was to park right up against the inside wall, turn your wheels all the way to the right, ease on the throttle(so as not to invoke the wheel-spin option) and do a full 360 degree turn, noting where on the track the farthest part of your turn ended up. Then change the setting and try it again. I would like if at least one person would try this so I would have confirmation of my test results. Thanks for any info from anyone. Ralph /----------------------------------------------------------------------\ /Ralph Williams My real .sig file is in the shop getting repaired.\ /----------------------------------------------------------------------\

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> I have a question for Jim (Papyrus), What did you guys do to the wheel > lock on the cars? > I was doing a little testing the other day. The turning radius of the car > does not change *AT ALL* from about 9 degrees to 25 degrees. I was checking > this at Charolette I think it was. > I have a wheel that lets me run full wheel lock at all of the tracks. > Again, what did you guys change from Nascar1? Why have the wheel > lock option at all if it does not change the angle of the wheels in a full-turn > situation? > It does appear to alter the sensitivity on the track....but if that is what > it is doing....shouldn't it be called something like "Steering Sensitivity"?

In developing the PSX version, I spent some time figuring out how to make the steering work "better" without detracting from the simulation aspect of the game. This improvement has been added to N2. Your wheel lock experiment at very low speeds (hence not at the limit of the tires' adhesion) is not particularly representative of what's important on the track. At speed, it is still actually wheel lock, (which in a way, is steering sensitivity). The dynamics of the tire/road interaction are much more complicated than the Physics 101 professor has led you to believe. I believe that what we have is accurate, and we didn't bother too much with the low speed turning circle, as wheelspin "fixes" that problem... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

I don't think your test is a valid way of determining the effect of wheel lock. At low speeds, other factors such as the steering geometry affect the turning radius. To get a true sense of how the wheel lock affects steering at the limits of traction, you need a virtual skid pad. Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

<snip> Dave, maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say. What is wheel lock? I would say that it is how sharply the wheels turn. If you draw a line parallel to the centerline of the car and measure the angle that the wheels move off of this line when fully turned, then this is the wheel lock, this measurement will be in degrees. I did not say that the tires were at the limit of traction. You are correct in that the steering geometry affects the turning radius at low speeds. In fact, the steering geometry is about *all* that will affect the turning radius at low speeds, disregarding the effect of the locked differential. I was not trying to test the effects at high speeds or at the limits of traction. I am more interested in the manueverability of the car in a slow speed situation, like entering a partially blocked pit stall or driving through a demo- derby-turn-one crash site in an online race. :) Try this out in Nascar1 with the wheel lock set pretty high, say 25 degrees. Then do the same in Nascar2 with 25 degrees. You will see what I am talking about. Am still interested in hearing from others, Ralph /----------------------------------------------------------------------\ /Ralph Williams My real .sig file is in the shop getting repaired.\ /----------------------------------------------------------------------\