MicroProse can kiss My***! Geoff Grammond can goto hell in a
handbasket!! We get all this bullshit hipe
and wait months after MICROPROSE keeps sayin it will be released and
what do we get!!? a GAME thats HALF ASS!!
I mean comon Geoff, Ive seen better performance on a ATARI 2600!! I mean
ok, ok the game has great graphics
and feel, but what does it matter, it wont even run on the fastest
machine without almost all the graphics on!! Shit!!, I might as well be
playing GP2 or Auto Racing for the Intelivision!! What a disapointment!!
I tried to hook up via modem the other night for the first time and to
my very suprise this piece o' SHIT cuts the ,already HALF-ASS framerate,
IN HALF!!!! We both were running p200 with 32 bps! Its amazing!! Not
only is the framerate CRAP!! You have no sound of other cars around you,
no impacts, bumps, or collisions, IS THIS GAME FINISHED YET?!! Whats
this hotlap SHIT?!! I wana replay, showing my modem buddy and I runnin'
some lines for several laps not work my fingers to the bone loading ONE
lap over and over!! Geoff Crammond musta had his head so far up his ass,
that he didnt even learn anything from the other Racing sims and that is
INTERACTIVE and GAMEPLAY!! I'm not suprised Microprose isnt coming out
with a patch, Its their nature. It will be the last time I spend my
money on anything they produce. ICR2 rules!! Papy's the best by far, who
cares about light arithums. Some "Hacker" even had to create a paintkit
converter for GP2. Bottom line is: If your gona create something and
SELL it to the public, Have it ready when you say youll have it ready
and deliver what you say you will deliver!! MICROPROSE
SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Notable threadFlame warAnger over reports of no Grand Prix 2 update
After a poster relayed MicroProse tech support saying there were no plans for a GP2 update with wet weather, a 1996 season or network play, a long and abusive argument followed. Critics said MicroProse had advertised features it did not deliver and gave poor support. Defenders, including John Wallace, said the box made no such promises and called GP2 an excellent sim, and conflicting reports of a planned IPX patch kept the dispute going.
Automated summary.
Quoted text (42 lines)
> > >Tell you what i'll agree to sell you a top of the range tv with all the bells > > >and whistles, i'll take 2 years to arrive but when it does you won't want > > >to watch anything else. i'll take your cash, and give you a black and white > > >model and laugh all the way to the bank knowing you wont complain. > > Get a clue! > > Nobody made you buy this game. There was no false advertising. > > Everything that was printed on the box, was in the game. It made no > > mention of weather and networking so why do you consider the game > > incomplete without them? > > Just because you didn't bother to read the box or research your > > purchase doesn't mean Microprose scammed you. > > Besides, if you didn't like it , why didn't you take it back? > NOOOO NOOOO NOOOO > They DID Falesly Advertise. Their GP2 homepage (before they > released it) said stuff about "Changing Weather patterns" and also > something about Marshalling. I'm afraid The weather doesn't change and > the Marshalling has been on par with the Weather (never changes) > If they half finsihed a product like they did with GP2 why > shouldn't they go ahead and fully complete it. I'm sure it wouldn't be > that hard for them professionals. > If Microprose don't treat this properly they will lose a lot of > trust from a lot of gamers who had faith in Miroprose, like myself. > Yes i do feel ripped off about not having those things included > in the game. The Data logger and performance charts are no real > development. People like Trevor Kellaway and others had those things made > for GP1, i'm sure Microprose only included them this time cause they > already existed. Whats more they didn't credit anyone for taking their > ideas! > Thats my two cents worth (which sometimes seems more than the way > Microprose are hadnling it) > SantoshI finally got hold of someone from microprose on the phone.
THERE ARE NO PLANS FOR AN UPDATE.
This means there will be no Wet Weather, no 1996 expansion disk and most
hideous of all no NETWORK SUPPORT. This is no bullshit, it is straight
from Microprose technical support.
If you want to find out more, or hopefully complain bitterly then phone
Microprose on 01454 893893 when asked for an extension number choose 4102
this should put you through to Richard Cross, the project manager for GP2 >
GIVE HIM HELL. Do not ask for Richard Cross, unless you are a company they
will not let you talk to him.
address in the manual, this goes direct to mp uk. apparently they do
answer email.............
Microprose have sold 600,000 copies of Gp2, they have our money , they got
what they wanted , shame we wont.
dont give a shit , they finnished the game got the money and thats it (this
game cant even dirrect and modem play hows it going to support
multiplayers).
The more I play this sim the less sim it seems to be. The graphics are
great and the little thing, brake lock, wheel spin but the driving side
seems to be lacking. GP2 like GP1 is still a matter of braking at the right
spot and turning. You dont have to setup the corner like in ICR2 , you dont
have to balance the car with bracking and acceleration like you do with the
Papyrus sims.( if you just turn in a Papyrus sim you would understear of
the track ) I realise that GP2 is already hard enough to drive, and IC2 was
mabe a bit to hard, but it is reality we are after. Another thing is the
brake, in GP2 the brake is like an emergency button, no mater how much
trouble your in just hit the brake and all will be well (I dont think so).
At this point I think we should be a bit disapointed with Micropose but
its still good for what it is, the disc is permenant in my drive, but after
racing the new Nascar demo I can see which one I will be spending more time
on in the future.
T.Galvin (swaying towards Papyrus more and more)
What a surprise... phone back a few days later and your get a different story.
I had loads of different storys from them regarding release dates....
AAARRRGGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!
Regards Steve
--
___ _______ ___ ___
/ _ \_______/_ __(_)___ / _ )/ _ )___ http://www.arcticbb.demon.co.uk
/ _ / __/ __// / / / __/ / _ / _ (_-< Arctic Bulletin Board - 24Hours
/_//_/_/ \__//_/ /_/\__/ /____/____/___/ +44 181-903-1309/8 FidoNet#2:254/86
nitehawk:
What's the word I'm looking for here? ah yes, "oxymoron", that's it.
- Craig ("Strobe").
Dear oh deary me! The old adage is true...."you'll never satisfy 100% of
the people 100% of the time"!!
Even if GP2 had wet weather, plans for 1996/97 updated teams/tracks and
network play, some people would STILL find something to complain about!
Do you REALLY have such a boring life?
BruceK
What is an oxymoron ???
The guy i talked to for over half an hour seemed to know his stuff, and this
is the closest i've got to a real answer from Microprose. The wierd thing
he did say was when i asked him about stunt car 2......apparently Track Attack
started off as stunt 2. And Geoff Crammond isn't working on a follow up...
that bit doesn't make sense.
I've got absolutely no reason to make this up i'm just realying what was
told to me. You won't believe how long it takes to get through to these people
^^^
THAT is a little generalisation, isn't it? Next time use "...I am after"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The most civilized civilizations are as close to barba-
rism as polished iron is to rust.
Rivarol
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Quoted text (12 lines)
> >Dear oh deary me! The old adage is true...."you'll never satisfy 100% of > >the people 100% of the time"!! > >Even if GP2 had wet weather, plans for 1996/97 updated teams/tracks and > >network play, some people would STILL find something to complain about! > >Do you REALLY have such a boring life? > >BruceK > Tell you what i'll agree to sell you a top of the range tv with all the bells > and whistles, i'll take 2 years to arrive but when it does you won't want > to watch anything else. i'll take your cash, and give you a black and white > model and laugh all the way to the bank knowing you wont complain.Let me tell you something about Microprose Technical Support:
One of my favorite Microprose titles, Pirates Gold! had a bad disk.
Over time, it failed, like most of my 3 1/2 disks. I wrote to
Microprose Tech. support looking for a new disk or basically some
SUPPORT!!! I told them I had the serial numbers, the box, that I
would send them anything short of one of my kidneys to get a
replacement disk. I was even willing to pay them. Guess what....I
never heard from them....NOT ONCE!!!
J.Walsh
P.S. BTW, that was over a year ago..... <the clincher>
"UP YOURS, MICROPROSE!!!!"
Tell you what i'll agree to sell you a top of the range tv with all the bells
and whistles, i'll take 2 years to arrive but when it does you won't want
to watch anything else. i'll take your cash, and give you a black and white
model and laugh all the way to the bank knowing you wont complain.
Quoted text (21 lines)
>I finally got hold of someone from microprose on the phone. >THERE ARE NO PLANS FOR AN UPDATE. >This means there will be no Wet Weather, no 1996 expansion disk and most >hideous of all no NETWORK SUPPORT. This is no bullshit, it is straight >from Microprose technical support. >If you want to find out more, or hopefully complain bitterly then phone >Microprose on 01454 893893 when asked for an extension number choose 4102 >this should put you through to Richard Cross, the project manager for GP2 > >GIVE HIM HELL. Do not ask for Richard Cross, unless you are a company they >will not let you talk to him. >address in the manual, this goes direct to mp uk. apparently they do >answer email............. >Microprose have sold 600,000 copies of Gp2, they have our money , they got >what they wanted , shame we wont.Quoted text (10 lines)
> >I finally got hold of someone from microprose on the phone. > >THERE ARE NO PLANS FOR AN UPDATE. > >This means there will be no Wet Weather, no 1996 expansion disk and most > >hideous of all no NETWORK SUPPORT. This is no bullshit, it is straight > >from Microprose technical support. > >If you want to find out more, or hopefully complain bitterly then phone > >Microprose on 01454 893893 when asked for an extension number chooseGet a clue!
Nobody made you buy this game. There was no false advertising.
Everything that was printed on the box, was in the game. It made no
mention of weather and networking so why do you consider the game
incomplete without them?
Just because you didn't bother to read the box or research your
purchase doesn't mean Microprose scammed you.
Besides, if you didn't like it , why didn't you take it back?
Quoted text (17 lines)
>> I finally got hold of someone from microprose on the phone. >> THERE ARE NO PLANS FOR AN UPDATE. >> This means there will be no Wet Weather, no 1996 expansion disk and most >> hideous of all no NETWORK SUPPORT. This is no bullshit, it is straight >> from Microprose technical support. >> they got >> what they wanted , shame we wont. >> I could see this comming GP2 is not designed for network and Micropose >dont give a shit , they finnished the game got the money and thats it (this >game cant even dirrect and modem play hows it going to support >multiplayers). > The more I play this sim the less sim it seems to be. The graphics are >great and the little thing, brake lock, wheel spin but the driving side >seems to be lacking.Quoted text (21 lines)
> I finally got hold of someone from microprose on the phone. > THERE ARE NO PLANS FOR AN UPDATE. > This means there will be no Wet Weather, no 1996 expansion disk and most > hideous of all no NETWORK SUPPORT. This is no bullshit, it is straight > from Microprose technical support. > If you want to find out more, or hopefully complain bitterly then phone > Microprose on 01454 893893 when asked for an extension number choose 4102 > this should put you through to Richard Cross, the project manager for GP2 > > GIVE HIM HELL. Do not ask for Richard Cross, unless you are a company they > will not let you talk to him. > address in the manual, this goes direct to mp uk. apparently they do > answer email............. > Microprose have sold 600,000 copies of Gp2, they have our money , they got > what they wanted , shame we wont.Sounds like Microprose have as you put taken our money and run.
I wonder how we stand legally with an unfinished product, whose
specification is different to one that was advertised on there webb
site only a month or two before launch date ???
I guess its down the human state of greed. I know we were eagerly awaiting
the product, but I think we could of waited another month to see if
FINISHED
On your note of getting through to people, I am afraid that is one major
problem with the computer industry, they all seem to hide behind answer
phones or engaged tones, like anyone who has tried to talk to Diamond
Technical will know.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Southend, Essex. UK
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I really think the original author had a point. Surely it would be much
better to have sacrificed <clouds> and other such <lovelies. for a spot of
wet weather. After all, wet weather oftern plays a very big part in F1.
Just look at Spa and Suzuka :))
Here's hoping for wet weather in Grand Prix 5 ;))
Gary
writes:
says...
>>Dear oh deary me! The old adage is true...."you'll never satisfy 100% of
>>the people 100% of the time"!!
>>Even if GP2 had wet weather, plans for 1996/97 updated teams/tracks and
>>network play, some people would STILL find something to complain about!
>>Do you REALLY have such a boring life?
>>BruceK
>Tell you what i'll agree to sell you a top of the range tv with all the bells
>and whistles, i'll take 2 years to arrive but when it does you won't want
>to watch anything else. i'll take your cash, and give you a black and white
>model and laugh all the way to the bank knowing you wont complain.
Then maybe you've learned a good lesson. Rent the game first,or play
it at a friend's house and then decide if you want to spend upwards of
$50 on the game. That's why I decided long ago to play the game first
before I buy it. There are plenty of games that don't hold my interest
long enough. I don't purchase those games. This newsgroup is a forum
for people's opinions about sims. If you had listened to the opinions
voiced here about the game, as well as the lack of certain features,
then maybe you wouldn't have bought the game in the first place. I, on
the other hand, am very happy with the game, and find it to be a great
improvement over GP1, whether it has wet weather and network support,
or not.
JDM
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 00:34:01 +1100, Shane Lansky
>Now this will be interesting to see if this happens as I bought the
>***y game for the ipx play as 4 of us get together saturdays night and
>have a good old go at the network games. That is why we all went out and
>bought it...
I guess it's true, there _is_ one born every minute. Four in this case
;-)
Richard
So I suppose every other racing sim on the market must be a valve model
"John Logie Baird" special?
GP2 is hardly the "black and white portable" of racing sims, that is
VERY harsh.
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
:)
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
> STANDING OVATION, MIKE! ENCORE!
> (I'm fed up with people whinging about this sim. They can't accept it for
> what it is....a ***y good SIMULATION!!!!) READ MY LIPS, FOLKS......IT'S
> A SIMULATION, A GAME...NOT REAL LIFE!!
> brucek
Who cares with what your fed up with! We post these complaints to get
the "SERIOUS" racing
SIM fraternity to wake up and smell the BULLSHIT. As a hobbie, some of
us wont settle for
HALF-ASS and we need to kick these designers in the ass to insure the
integrity of the racing SIMS to come.
Dont respond to these posts if you settle for second best. Evidently
your maturity in the racing sim
evolution is not to a level yet to respect! -David Gary
Quoted text (15 lines)
> Insult folks on the newsgroups? That's the pot calling the kettle black, > ain't it? And where do you get your statistics that "most folks feel that > way (unsatisfied)"? The McNair-Anderson Poll or did you do quick 'phone > around the USA? How about the silent majority out there, who haven't > mentioned anything about the game? > No, I'm not satisfied 100% of the ***y time...far from it...but I don't > BUY a game and then complain like crazy about what is or isn't up to my > expectations. I find out first. With your attitude you probably buy a car > without first testing it! > If you want to complain...do so to the publishers/programmers. They're the > people who can change things, not us! > brucekQuoted text (12 lines)
> On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:03:19 -0500, David Gary > >AND GEOFF CRAMMOND NEEDS TO GO BACK > >TO PROGRAMING SCHOOL OR HELL, JUST GO TO PROGRAMMING SCHOOL!!! BTW, > Since you are such a "TRUE" racing sim fanatic (sic) I am sure that > you yourself recognise the above for the drivel it is. Or have you > forgotten that Geoff has been producing landmark racing sims for the > last 12 years. > Richard> I sincerely hope that they don't. If they read the drivel you've been
> spouting we'll never get another decent sim. Face it, would you spend
> 2 years on a project only to be subjected to juvenile rantings?
> Richard
Well isnt that special? The God of marketing has spoken! Get a grip!
Are you fluent in babble? Are is it just a bad habbit?!
The Bottom line is, instead of worrying what other people think, suggest
what could make this sim better instead of replying to posts that are
not directed toward you. Is this how you wast your time little man
murmer?!
Quoted text (8 lines)
> You really haven't got a clue what you are talking about have you? > Constantly repeating the same pathetic quotes won't get anyone > believing you. The majority of seasoned sim veterans can recognise the > incredible driving model that GP2 offers. Good modem and network > support would be "nice to haves" but in a racing sim (as you should > know since you're such an expert) the driving model is all. > RichardQuoted text (19 lines)
>I really think the original author had a point. Surely it would be much >better to have sacrificed <clouds> and other such <lovelies. for a spot of >wet weather. After all, wet weather oftern plays a very big part in F1. >Just look at Spa and Suzuka :)) >Here's hoping for wet weather in Grand Prix 5 ;)) >Gary >> Dear oh deary me! The old adage is true...."you'll never satisfy 100% of >> the people 100% of the time"!! >> Even if GP2 had wet weather, plans for 1996/97 updated teams/tracks and >> network play, some people would STILL find something to complain about! >> Do you REALLY have such a boring life? >> BruceKOn Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:03:19 -0500, David Gary
Just to comment on a few points -
1. I get 19.6 frames a second on a P133. Granted I don't use all the
graphics options, just the ones I feel are necessary for good racing.
Can you or anyone else play Nascar at full graphics? No....and that
game was made 18 months ago.
2. I can play at almost the same framerate(16) head to head with a
friend as I do alone. I use the "use:16550" switch. Sure I wish it was
better, But I wouldn't slam the sim because I didn't know how to
configure the program or setup my PC.
3. >I'm sorry but maybe Im used to PAPY's COMPLETED racing SIMs>
Give me a break! Papyrus hasn't released a complete program since the
original Indy 500 game. Indycar 1 was released saying that it had
modem play....it took about 6 months for them to release a patch that
actually provided it! Nascar had a serious problem with problem
yellow flags until its second patch. Indycar 2 took 9 months to patch
their yellow flag and traction problem. The only way you could be
satisfied by "Papyrus's completed sims" is if you bought them at least
6 months(more like 9) after the intial release.
Who created the "hype" you mention? We did. Not MPS. Just because the
game doesn't include everything that was hyped about it is not MPS's
fault.
Bottom Line -
Is everything on the "box" in the game?.........YES!!!! This is all
that counts. Hey, it's not like Papyr.... I mean MPS said it had modem
play and released it without it.
Quoted text (37 lines)
>I totally agree with these guys and believe me most of the Racin' SIM >fanatics I know agree >that this game is FAR from finished, Did they forget to release the FULL >version?!! >Have they mistakingly mass produced and packaged the BETA version?!! >Where the hell is everything >the hipe brought out?!! Has Geoff Crammond already went on vacation with >our money?!! >The Bottom Line Is, this sim is far from complete! Yeah the model >physics are great and the detail >is awesome, but hell i can flip through a F1 AutoCourse book faster than >this game runs!! Even >on a p200 you still have to turn over HALF of the graphics off to get an >acceptable 25 fps!! >GEEEEEZZZZ!!.. I still feel like Im playing GP1 because of this!! And >what a piece of ***the >modem config is , When my modem buddy and I hooked up, the already >HALF-ASS framerate was CUT AGAIN in >HALF!! This is a prime example of an unfinished game, so I'm in that >category of "BEING ROBBED"!! >I'm sorry but maybe Im used to PAPY's COMPLETED racing SIMs and >MICROPROSE took me by suprise!! But >DAMMIT, when I wait that long and spend alot of money on a fast system >and We are repeatedly lied to >about the release date, I get pretty upset when GP2 comes out in the far >less condition that >all the bullshit hiped it up to be!! ICR2 still is fluid and via modem >is just as fluid and FRAMERATE is >everything!! So I dont know how important wet weather is or anything , I >just want a game that doesnt >look like a slide show when you have the graphics on!! MICROPROSE SUCKS >AND GEOFF CRAMMOND NEEDS TO GO BACK >TO PROGRAMING SCHOOL OR HELL, JUST GO TO PROGRAMMING SCHOOL!!! BTW, >Microprose has noted that there are >no plans for an update patch, but I'm not suprised thats their nature, I >just hope that if anyone else trys this suck ass SIM they'll pirate it >so Microprose wont rob THEM!!>>Tell you what i'll agree to sell you a top of the range tv with all the bells
Obviuosly didn't check out there website did you.
It clearly mention Random Weather Marshalling etc etc etc.
Quoted text (15 lines)
>>and whistles, i'll take 2 years to arrive but when it does you won't want >>to watch anything else. i'll take your cash, and give you a black and white >>model and laugh all the way to the bank knowing you wont complain. >Get a clue! >Nobody made you buy this game. There was no false advertising. >Everything that was printed on the box, was in the game. It made no >mention of weather and networking so why do you consider the game >incomplete without them? >Just because you didn't bother to read the box or research your >purchase doesn't mean Microprose scammed you. >Besides, if you didn't like it , why didn't you take it back?Quoted text (16 lines)
> >Tell you what i'll agree to sell you a top of the range tv with all the bells > >and whistles, i'll take 2 years to arrive but when it does you won't want > >to watch anything else. i'll take your cash, and give you a black and white > >model and laugh all the way to the bank knowing you wont complain. > Get a clue! > Nobody made you buy this game. There was no false advertising. > Everything that was printed on the box, was in the game. It made no > mention of weather and networking so why do you consider the game > incomplete without them? > Just because you didn't bother to read the box or research your > purchase doesn't mean Microprose scammed you. > Besides, if you didn't like it , why didn't you take it back?I think that's known as "exaggerating", perhaps even SEVERE
exaggerating.
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
It's no wonder MPS is on the brink of extinction. GP2 is a pretty good
sim, BUT, there is nothing wrong about questioning MPS about promises
made about a product that don't materialize when it is released. No
matter what you think about what might be the better sim, ICR2, NASCAR
or GP2, MPS support stinks!!!! I too asked for a patch disk for WC by
mail as I was modemless at the time, Nothing ever came despite 2
letters and a promise over the phone they would send a disk.
Papyrus has never failed to send a patch disk after I requested one,
and it arrived very quickly. Although the Sierra deal has, in my
opinion, watered down Papyrus' rep for good support, MPS doesn't
feel they owe customers anything after the purchase. MAY MPS die an
unly death and Geoff Crammond find a job with Papyrus so we can live
in sim heaven forever. Amen.
"Anything worth doing is worth overdoing"
says...
>>Tell you what i'll agree to sell you a top of the range tv with all the bells
Quoted text (19 lines)
>>and whistles, i'll take 2 years to arrive but when it does you won't want >>to watch anything else. i'll take your cash, and give you a black and white >>model and laugh all the way to the bank knowing you wont complain. >So I suppose every other racing sim on the market must be a valve model >"John Logie Baird" special? >GP2 is hardly the "black and white portable" of racing sims, that is >VERY harsh. > _________________________________ > __ _____| |_____ __ >________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ > \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < > / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ >/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ > http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnewsI think you miss the point. Microprose made these statements. The
biggest was it was going to be IPX network play. That is the reason I
bought it. If it is not made available to the public then it is
disapointing news to me. All the same mags do and can also get it
wrong so we just have to wait and see. You are right and you cant
please all the masses but most companys do listen to reasonable
moaning and do act if valid. After all we are the people who keep
there familys fed...
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
I wish that I would have known about the nocdrom crack before I bought the CD. I would
have borrowed my friends' CD, used the utility and that would be the end of it. For
those of you interested in the game, but havn't purchased it yet, go search the web
for -gp2-, follow the links untill you find the file nocdrom.zip.
--
--I'll turn off the Gravity, it'll help you relax--
: >So far Im quite
: >unhappy with it... seems most folks feel that way.
:
: I think that's known as "exaggerating", perhaps even SEVERE
: exaggerating.
Pardon my ignorance, but what was the big news that this thread has
been going on and on about. My power has been out for several
days so I'm a bit behind in my current events.
Regards,
-Dirt-
*******************************************
* Mechanical Engineering 1996 *
* University of Missouri, Rolla *
*
*
* Need a Mechanical Engineer? E-mail me! *
*******************************************
Insult folks on the newsgroups? That's the pot calling the kettle black,
ain't it? And where do you get your statistics that "most folks feel that
way (unsatisfied)"? The McNair-Anderson Poll or did you do quick 'phone
around the USA? How about the silent majority out there, who haven't
mentioned anything about the game?
No, I'm not satisfied 100% of the ***y time...far from it...but I don't
BUY a game and then complain like crazy about what is or isn't up to my
expectations. I find out first. With your attitude you probably buy a car
without first testing it!
If you want to complain...do so to the publishers/programmers. They're the
people who can change things, not us!
brucek
RG> Are you satisfied 100% of the time?
No.....but very pleased/impressed/etc by it all the same.
RG> I paid good money for GP2 and I want too be satisfied with it. So
RG> far Im quite unhappy with it... seems most folks feel that way.
I also paid good money - and am very happy with it.....as John Wallace
suggested I think your latter statement is, at best, gross exageration.
When it comes to it - sure there are always bits and bobs you can pick
over - the overall product is very fine......technically excellent, well
produced and very entertaining.
OK - it'd be nice if it had wet weather......but I can live with a damn
fine dry-conditions-only sim MUCH better than I could with a seriously-
undriveable wheels-glued-to-the-track sim like ICR2 pre-patch.....how
long did it take them to sort that???!!!
I've driven a lot of F1GP, ICR, Nascar, ICR2 and now GP2 miles - and
expect to continue this trend. NONE of them have been anywhere near
perfect, ALL have open to major criticisms if you are so-minded. But
I've enjoyed them all FOR WHAT THEY ARE.....rather than winging about
what they are not.
Enjoy???!!! B-)
Cheers!
---
* RM 1.3 U0414 * COMMUNICATIONS FAILURE: Error Code 123 - Incompetent Typist
STANDING OVATION, MIKE! ENCORE!
(I'm fed up with people whinging about this sim. They can't accept it for
what it is....a ***y good SIMULATION!!!!) READ MY LIPS, FOLKS......IT'S
A SIMULATION, A GAME...NOT REAL LIFE!!
brucek
Tight git!
Regards Steve
--
___ _______ ___ ___
/ _ \_______/_ __(_)___ / _ )/ _ )___ http://www.arcticbb.demon.co.uk
/ _ / __/ __// / / / __/ / _ / _ (_-< Arctic Bulletin Board - 24Hours
/_//_/_/ \__//_/ /_/\__/ /____/____/___/ +44 181-903-1309/8 FidoNet#2:254/86
Quoted text (18 lines)
> >Someday you will > >aquire > >the knowledge to understand my statements. > Unfortunately by that time we will all have become so tired of listening > that we won't understand anyway. > If you have something to say, and especially if you're trying to > convince people of something, hurling abuse at them is usually NOT a > good place to start - there's a hint for you. Whenever the words > "pathetic mass between your ears" pop up, sarcasm is at a premium and > content suffering in proportion. > Can we keep it civil? The discussion is a valid one, but another thread > turned into a slanging match is just a waste of time. > Cheers! > JohnQuoted text (21 lines)
> Jesus i really created a monster with this one. > I started this thread with the vain hope that maybe just maybe people > would band together, and do something positive, but it has just turned into > a mass slanging match. > Very shortly one of the gp2 web sites will have a special page where you > can "auto email" Microprose an politely ask for the game to be addressed. > If your happy with it then you needn't bother, but it will be there for all > those people that feel betrayed. > I know that this page will be used, i just hope that it will be used a LOT > Microprose UK get 100+ Emails a day, if i can at least double that from > Gp2 owners, then maybe they will take notice. > But, and i'm asking nicely here, even if your 100% satisfied with Gp2 > LEND YOUR SUPPORT, > i'll post the url for this page as soon as it is set up. > btw Wet Weather in GP2 is possible > Set your date to March/april and race > Silverstone :)What "unfinished product" are you talking about?
--
BruceK
VR #31
Homepage: http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/vegemiteracing/index.htm
>Sounds like Microprose have as you put taken our money and run.
>I wonder how we stand legally with an unfinished product, whose
>specification is different to one that was advertised on there webb
>site only a month or two before launch date ???
You'd really go that far over a 30 quid (UKP30 for non-UK sports fans)
game?!
Stuart
--
Stuart Booth
Somewhere in Oxfordshire, England, UK
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 04:06:22 -0500, David Gary
You really haven't got a clue what you are talking about have you?
Constantly repeating the same pathetic quotes won't get anyone
believing you. The majority of seasoned sim veterans can recognise the
incredible driving model that GP2 offers. Good modem and network
support would be "nice to haves" but in a racing sim (as you should
know since you're such an expert) the driving model is all.
Richard
Quoted text (9 lines)
>Who cares with what your fed up with! We post these complaints to get >the "SERIOUS" racing >SIM fraternity to wake up and smell the BULLSHIT. As a hobbie, some of >us wont settle for >HALF-ASS and we need to kick these designers in the ass to insure the >integrity of the racing SIMS to come. >Dont respond to these posts if you settle for second best. Evidently >your maturity in the racing sim >evolution is not to a level yet to respect! -David GaryActually, here in Finland it said "Modem and _network_ support" on the
game box. Now that's what I call misleading customers! I had read this
ng :) so I knew it wasn't true, but someone else must have felt
cheated...
--
K Kalle SSS
K K S Silfverberg
K K S
KK SSS
K K S
K K S S
K K SSS
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 04:10:46 -0500, David Gary
> These posts are not directed toward you and BTW the programmers and
>designers
>read these posts often. So I guess in order to "TEST drive these sims"
>we need
>to PIRATE them before buying?!! Get real!! -David Gary
I sincerely hope that they don't. If they read the drivel you've been
spouting we'll never get another decent sim. Face it, would you spend
2 years on a project only to be subjected to juvenile rantings?
Richard
On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:03:19 -0500, David Gary
>AND GEOFF CRAMMOND NEEDS TO GO BACK
>TO PROGRAMING SCHOOL OR HELL, JUST GO TO PROGRAMMING SCHOOL!!! BTW,
Since you are such a "TRUE" racing sim fanatic (sic) I am sure that
you yourself recognise the above for the drivel it is. Or have you
forgotten that Geoff has been producing landmark racing sims for the
last 12 years.
Richard
writes:
>> STANDING OVATION, MIKE! ENCORE!
>> (I'm fed up with people whinging about this sim. They can't accept it for
>> what it is....a ***y good SIMULATION!!!!) READ MY LIPS, FOLKS......IT'S
Here's a simple solution: don't buy games that you don't like. Test
them out first, read reviews about them, whatever. And if you feel the
need to *** about the game, look up Microprose's address, and write
THEM or phone THEM to complain. ***ing to people in this newsgroup,
instead of the creators of the game about the fact that there is no
network support is not going to get you an upgrade patch any quicker.
Also, I would like to know what simulation GP2 is "second best" to. By
the way, priding yourself as having "maturity in the racing sim
evolution" must be something that you are very proud of, huh ??
JDM
Quoted text (13 lines)
>> A SIMULATION, A GAME...NOT REAL LIFE!! >> brucek >Who cares with what your fed up with! We post these complaints to get >the "SERIOUS" racing >SIM fraternity to wake up and smell the BULLSHIT. As a hobbie, some of >us wont settle for >HALF-ASS and we need to kick these designers in the ass to insure the >integrity of the racing SIMS to come. >Dont respond to these posts if you settle for second best. Evidently >your maturity in the racing sim >evolution is not to a level yet to respect! -David GaryQuoted text (7 lines)
> The more I play this sim the less sim it seems to be. The graphics are > great and the little thing, brake lock, wheel spin but the driving side > seems to be lacking. GP2 like GP1 is still a matter of braking at the right > spot and turning. You dont have to setup the corner like in ICR2 , you dont > have to balance the car with bracking and acceleration like you do with the > Papyrus sims.( if you just turn in a Papyrus sim you would understear of > the track )That's nice....
I'd rather say: if you are really interested in simulations, _buy_ GP2 (it's a
real BARGAIN!!), install it, get nocdrom.zip and play it without the CD.
This game is well worth the price, no matter what whiners tell you.
Jo
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The most civilized civilizations are as close to barba-
rism as polished iron is to rust.
Rivarol
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
You take your wishes for true.....You can complain as much as you want, you can
slaughter the game completely, but you shouldn't ASSUME just like that that most
people don't like the game. You might be FAR off.
Jo
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The most civilized civilizations are as close to barba-
rism as polished iron is to rust.
Rivarol
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I seem to remember that at the time GP1 came out, the only sim Papyrus
had was Indianapolis 500.....and GP1 was a hell of alot better. I even
seem to remember that that was why I had upgraded to a 486-33. My 386-25
was too slow to run it with any graphics on. Huh, Deja Vu? Where's my
786-233? You can only hope right?
Evidently your maturity in the racing sim evolution is not to a level yet
to respect! -David Gary
And your level of maturity is, I suppose?!
BruceK
I've been reading the sports sim news groups for the passed few months and
three football games have been released with twice as many flaws as GP2,
yet the complaints have not nearly been as harsh as the ones here.
Another thing, this game can't be that bad if two thirds of the posts at
this news group are about GP2.
The problem with this is:
1) Test what? There isn't a demo out that I know of.
2) Will your software dealer let you test it for more than 15 minutes?
The bugs and ill designed features in F1GP2 will not get noticed
by a quick spin on quickrace.
3) Reviews? hahhaha, can you spell hype?
I still think F1GP2 is the best racing sim on the market (for PCs),
_BUT_ it has a LOT to improve and did NOT deliver everything that
was promised.
-TPP
Marsh) writes:
The computer software chain, Software, Etc., will accept returns of
OPENED purchases for up to 48 hours, no questions asked. They will
give you your money back, not a store credit. So, buying something
there is a good way to test a game -- I have done it several times
myself.
JDM
Quoted text (10 lines)
>>Here's a simple solution: don't buy games that you don't like. Test >>them out first, read reviews about them, whatever. >The problem with this is: >1) Test what? There isn't a demo out that I know of. >2) Will your software dealer let you test it for more than 15 minutes? > The bugs and ill designed features in F1GP2 will not get noticed > by a quick spin on quickrace.On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:42:28 -0500, David Gary
>PLEASE! PLEASE! tell me these so-called landmark racing sims
>you refer to! What GP1? I'd rather set myself on fire than waste
>my time with that non sense of a game. Save the word "landmark"
>to the real pioneers of the virtual racing world, like Papyrus.
Papyrus have produced some great sims. Both ICR1 & 2 were the best
open wheeled sims at the time of their release. Nascar 1 is still the
best stock car game & N2 will be the best when it is released. Don't
try & turn this into a GC/Papy slanging match.
A brief run down of Geoff Crammond's racing portfolio for those who
don't know:
Revs was released in 1984 (maybe early 1985). It was an amazingly
accurate simulation of Formula 3 racing considering that it was
developed for a machine that only had 32K of RAM (the BBC Micro). I
hate to think just how many hours I clocked up at Silverstone, Brands
Hatch, Donnington, Snetterton & Oulton Park on the sim, and all using
a black & white portable telly as I couldn't afford a monitor!
Stunt Car Racer doesn't exactly qualify for the title of a "sim" but
for a pure arcade game offerred a surprisingly good driving
experience. Released about 1988/9 for the Amiga & Atari ST. (Forget
the PC version, the port wasn't done by GC and is, quite frankly,
crap).
F1GP/WC was released in 1991, first on the Amiga & then the Atari ST.
The PC version was a while later. As such it predated ICR1 by over two
years and was released ahead of Indy 500 if I remember correctly (Indy
500 is the only one of the top sims I've never driven seriously btw -
I didn't have a PC at the time)
All of GC's games have rightfully earned the "landmark" tag, just as
Papy's have also done.
Richard
Quoted text (21 lines)
>On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 04:06:22 -0500, David Gary >>Who cares with what your fed up with! We post these complaints to get >>the "SERIOUS" racing >>SIM fraternity to wake up and smell the BULLSHIT. As a hobbie, some of >>us wont settle for >>HALF-ASS and we need to kick these designers in the ass to insure the >>integrity of the racing SIMS to come. >>Dont respond to these posts if you settle for second best. Evidently >>your maturity in the racing sim >>evolution is not to a level yet to respect! -David Gary >You really haven't got a clue what you are talking about have you? >Constantly repeating the same pathetic quotes won't get anyone >believing you. The majority of seasoned sim veterans can recognise the >incredible driving model that GP2 offers. Good modem and network >support would be "nice to haves" but in a racing sim (as you should >know since you're such an expert) the driving model is all. >RichardUnfortunately by that time we will all have become so tired of listening
that we won't understand anyway.
If you have something to say, and especially if you're trying to
convince people of something, hurling abuse at them is usually NOT a
good place to start - there's a hint for you. Whenever the words
"pathetic mass between your ears" pop up, sarcasm is at a premium and
content suffering in proportion.
Can we keep it civil? The discussion is a valid one, but another thread
turned into a slanging match is just a waste of time.
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
Quoted text (23 lines)
> > You really haven't got a clue what you are talking about have you? > > Constantly repeating the same pathetic quotes won't get anyone > > believing you. The majority of seasoned sim veterans can recognise the > > incredible driving model that GP2 offers. Good modem and network > > support would be "nice to haves" but in a racing sim (as you should > > know since you're such an expert) the driving model is all. > > Richard > I am not here to try to "con" anyone into believing me. I could care > less. > The fact is anyone with even entry level experience in racing sims like > yourself can plainly see that GP2 is far from finished. Evidently I have > to keep repeating my statements so they will get through to the > pathetic mass between your ears. If you read my prior post (maybe I'll > have to repeat it) you will see that I DO agree the driving model is > excellent > in GP2 but "MODEL" is only half of a sim. That is ALL this sim offers. > You will > understand this when you get some experience behind your belt, till then > have fun with GP2, because thats what its all about! Someday you will > aquire > the knowledge to understand my statements. Till then keep practicing.I never siad it was perfect <g> Besides, you're talking about the
_crash_ model which is, indeed, flawed. Still, with such a good drive
model there's no excuse for crashing ;-)
Richard
Hill) writes:
>>STANDING OVATION, MIKE! ENCORE!
>>(I'm fed up with people whinging about this sim. They can't accept it for
>>what it is....a ***y good SIMULATION!!!!) READ MY LIPS, FOLKS......IT'S
Yep, it also doesn't have tifosi running on the track, or drivers
getting into fistfights when one punts the other off. And the Nascar
sims don't have a bunch of jackasses drinking Busch and wearing
"Anybody but Earnhardt" shirts. And the Indycar sims don't even have
Indianapolis as a track.
Like you guys say, it's really a shame that there isn't one company in
the world that makes racing simulators. Unbelievable !!!
JDM
Quoted text (13 lines)
>>A SIMULATION, A GAME...NOT REAL LIFE!! >From the Oxford English Dictionary: >simulate v.t. 1. to pretend to be, have, or feel. 2. to imitate or >counterfeit; to imitate the conditions of (a situation etc.), e.g. for >training. --simulation n., simulator n. >I can not see how a Formula One Grand Prix simulator can satisfy the >OED's definition of 'simulation' without including changeable weather >conditions. GP2 may well simulate a Grand Prix car in the dry, which >is does remarkably well, but it does not simulate a Grand Prix car in >conditions it is likely to find on a Grand Prix circuit, and it does >not simulate a typical Grand Prix season/championship.>STANDING OVATION, MIKE! ENCORE!
>(I'm fed up with people whinging about this sim. They can't accept it for
>what it is....a ***y good SIMULATION!!!!) READ MY LIPS, FOLKS......IT'S
>A SIMULATION, A GAME...NOT REAL LIFE!!
From the Oxford English Dictionary:
simulate v.t. 1. to pretend to be, have, or feel. 2. to imitate or
counterfeit; to imitate the conditions of (a situation etc.), e.g. for
training. --simulation n., simulator n.
I can not see how a Formula One Grand Prix simulator can satisfy the
OED's definition of 'simulation' without including changeable weather
conditions. GP2 may well simulate a Grand Prix car in the dry, which
is does remarkably well, but it does not simulate a Grand Prix car in
conditions it is likely to find on a Grand Prix circuit, and it does
not simulate a typical Grand Prix season/championship.
My 2p worth.
--
Mark Hill
Quoted text (21 lines)
> >STANDING OVATION, MIKE! ENCORE! > >(I'm fed up with people whinging about this sim. They can't accept it for > >what it is....a ***y good SIMULATION!!!!) READ MY LIPS, FOLKS......IT'S > >A SIMULATION, A GAME...NOT REAL LIFE!! > From the Oxford English Dictionary: > simulate v.t. 1. to pretend to be, have, or feel. 2. to imitate or > counterfeit; to imitate the conditions of (a situation etc.), e.g. for > training. --simulation n., simulator n. > I can not see how a Formula One Grand Prix simulator can satisfy the > OED's definition of 'simulation' without including changeable weather > conditions. GP2 may well simulate a Grand Prix car in the dry, which > is does remarkably well, but it does not simulate a Grand Prix car in > conditions it is likely to find on a Grand Prix circuit, and it does > not simulate a typical Grand Prix season/championship. > My 2p worth. > -- > Mark HillI've got a demo!
Just contact Microprose.
Andrew
"The driving model is all", and then go onto describe all the things
that are NOT part of the driving model.....
Sheesh....
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
Call me crazy, but here's a silly little idea that I'm gonna give you
for the low cost of free. If you break a tire off, or hit a wall so
hard that your car would be undriveable in "real life", then there's
this real simple thing you can do. It's called PULLING OVER. Yes,
believe it or not, you can actually stop driving if you so desire.
Wheel falls off -- park it. Hit the wall at 150 MPH+ -- park it. I
don't see why this is such a difficult thing for people to grasp. Do
you really need the computer to tell you when to stop driving?? Is
self-discipline such a hard thing to regulate ?? The game "simulates"
real life, but it doesn't mirror it. It's why it's called a "game".
JDM
Jesus i really created a monster with this one.
I started this thread with the vain hope that maybe just maybe people
would band together, and do something positive, but it has just turned into
a mass slanging match.
Very shortly one of the gp2 web sites will have a special page where you
can "auto email" Microprose an politely ask for the game to be addressed.
If your happy with it then you needn't bother, but it will be there for all
those people that feel betrayed.
I know that this page will be used, i just hope that it will be used a LOT
Microprose UK get 100+ Emails a day, if i can at least double that from
Gp2 owners, then maybe they will take notice.
But, and i'm asking nicely here, even if your 100% satisfied with Gp2
LEND YOUR SUPPORT,
i'll post the url for this page as soon as it is set up.
btw Wet Weather in GP2 is possible > Set your date to March/april and race
Silverstone :)
Well it started after my call to Microprose, in which i was told that they have
no intention of supporting (updating) gp2
but it has turned into a free for all.............
i feel like one of those guys who starts a fight and watches the outcome
says...
Agreed!!!!!!!!
Quoted text (18 lines)
>>Someday you will >>aquire >>the knowledge to understand my statements. >Unfortunately by that time we will all have become so tired of listening >that we won't understand anyway. >If you have something to say, and especially if you're trying to >convince people of something, hurling abuse at them is usually NOT a >good place to start - there's a hint for you. Whenever the words >"pathetic mass between your ears" pop up, sarcasm is at a premium and >content suffering in proportion. >Can we keep it civil? The discussion is a valid one, but another thread >turned into a slanging match is just a waste of time. >Cheers! >JohnQuoted text (9 lines)
> _________________________________ > __ _____| |_____ __ >________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ > \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < > / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ >/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ > http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnewsAnd you're getting as bad as Gary.
--
BruceK
VR #31
For God's sake, Gary, grow up. Your ravings belong in the lunatic fringe.
It's a ***y *game* that you are having apoplexy over. Take a Valium and
go and have a rest.--
BruceK
VR #31
Seems fair enough to me, Give me the Microprose UK Email address and I
will mail them. I am ***y pissed off with these omissions
I am partially interested, as I am a protenial purchaser of 1943 and Xcom
3. But if they are going to muck us about with unfinished products once,
they would no doubt do it again.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Parkstone Motor Company,
Southend on Sea, Essex
United Kingdom.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks David,
It's rare to come across someone big enough to say that - my respect to
you.
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
Quoted text (30 lines)
> says... > >>Someday you will > >>aquire > >>the knowledge to understand my statements. > >Unfortunately by that time we will all have become so tired of listening > >that we won't understand anyway. > >If you have something to say, and especially if you're trying to > >convince people of something, hurling abuse at them is usually NOT a > >good place to start - there's a hint for you. Whenever the words > >"pathetic mass between your ears" pop up, sarcasm is at a premium and > >content suffering in proportion. > >Can we keep it civil? The discussion is a valid one, but another thread > >turned into a slanging match is just a waste of time. > >Cheers! > >John > Agreed!!!!!!!! > > _________________________________ > > __ _____| |_____ __ > >________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________On Tue, 29 Oct 1996 23:03:28 +0000, John Wallace
>Can we keep it civil? The discussion is a valid one, but another thread
>turned into a slanging match is just a waste of time.
Oops. Sorry to everyone out there. I was trying to keep reasonably
civil & not responding too much in kind, but it does get a little
difficult at times :(
I also tend to be just a little too defensive when criticisms are made
of the programmers that I admire, especially if they are vulgar,
personal attacks.
Valid, substantiated criticisms of the _products_ are on topic for
this group. Personal attacks on the programmers are _not_ and are
inevitably counterproductive.
Cheers,
Richard
Quoted text (24 lines)
>[snip for brevity] >> Revs was released in 1984 (maybe early 1985). It was an amazingly >> accurate simulation of Formula 3 racing considering that it was >> developed for a machine that only had 32K of RAM (the BBC Micro). >Richard, >Well said to all your points, and I agree that another Papy v Microprose >battle is not really the issue in this thread, and is pretty pointless in >any thread. >I had REVS+ on my C64, and was my earliest experience of a racing >sim, and is what gave me the bug in the first place. It still amazes me >that even though GP2 is many many times more complex and accurate >than the original Revs, they both echo Geoff's programming and sim >style in many ways. >To those who blame GC, >Geoff Crammond shouldn't be the target of any hostility since he has >yet again excelled in producing a great racing game. How about >laying off the programmers, and realizing that they are >bound to operating under the control of *those who pay the wages* >in much the same way as we all are. >My boss won't even let me sit and read Usenet all day...Quoted text (10 lines)
>On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 04:10:46 -0500, David Gary >> These posts are not directed toward you and BTW the programmers and >>designers >>read these posts often. So I guess in order to "TEST drive these sims" >>we need >>to PIRATE them before buying?!! Get real!! -David Gary >I sincerely hope that they don't. If they read the drivel you've been >spouting we'll never get another decent sim. Face it, would you spend >2 years on a project only to be subjected to juvenile rantings?[snip for brevity]
Richard,
Well said to all your points, and I agree that another Papy v Microprose
battle is not really the issue in this thread, and is pretty pointless in
any thread.
I had REVS+ on my C64, and was my earliest experience of a racing
sim, and is what gave me the bug in the first place. It still amazes me
that even though GP2 is many many times more complex and accurate
than the original Revs, they both echo Geoff's programming and sim
style in many ways.
To those who blame GC,
Geoff Crammond shouldn't be the target of any hostility since he has
yet again excelled in producing a great racing game. How about
laying off the programmers, and realizing that they are
bound to operating under the control of *those who pay the wages*
in much the same way as we all are.
My boss won't even let me sit and read Usenet all day...
Jet
> > "Fix"? What has to be fixed?
Too many things to list. If you read the GP2 FORUM. That answer lies in
the hundreds of problems
found on this forum from hundreds of guys that can list hundreds of
things to be "fixed". To many
hundreds in this sim for me! -David Gary
"Compared to what?" Is a impractical question because theres nothing to
compare it to. Its the latest
F1 Sim on the market. The original post was listed to state the many
problems of GP2, not to compare it to anything! -DG
> I have not had the problems with modem play or direct connect
> play, the game runs very well.
PLEASE tell me how you got this sim to run "very well" via modem! The
modem link wasnt even designed for
GP2, instead it was an old link to a prior game by Geoff Crammond. I
would very much like to here your
interpretation of "very well"!
"Compared to what" should be omitted as a question. The "Question"
should be, Why did Microprose release
a Sim with modem links that were designed for other games, A game engine
that wouldnt run on the fastest hardware, the absence of quality
utilities, etc., etc,...the list goes on! The "Question" should be,
Is this the kind of Sim we should expect after months of delays and
hipe?! Its that simple.
-David Gary
Quoted text (10 lines)
> BTW that thing about wet weather being possible is bullshit. > Still, I lend support to your campaign. > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Parkstone Motor Company, > Southend on Sea, Essex > United Kingdom. > -----------------------------------------------------------------On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 18:43:31 +0100, John Wallace
That is not what the writer was implying. Microprose advertised
something and did not deliver the full adverti***t. As he said...How
would you like to buy a colour T.V and find out it is black and white
to be told that a fix for it will be available when ever.
I think he has a valid point.
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
Quoted text (10 lines)
>>Tell you what i'll agree to sell you a top of the range tv with all the bells >>and whistles, i'll take 2 years to arrive but when it does you won't want >>to watch anything else. i'll take your cash, and give you a black and white >>model and laugh all the way to the bank knowing you wont complain. >So I suppose every other racing sim on the market must be a valve model >"John Logie Baird" special? >GP2 is hardly the "black and white portable" of racing sims, that is >VERY harsh."Fix"? What has to be fixed?
You bought a racing sim, got THE top racing sim on the market, and there
was no fix or update promised. The writer was implying that GP2 was some
sort of unfinished product, the "black and white TV" of the analogy, and
that is from where my "valve model" came from. Since GP2 is, IMO,
superior to anything else on the market by now, it stands to reason that
they must be lower than the black and white TV on the racing-sim
evolutionary scale.
I'd love to see your NICAM, widescreen HDTV model, but it's not
available. GP2 poor? Compared to what?
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \._____\
[link lost in import: /~harmon/simnews]
Quoted text (15 lines)
> "Fix"? What has to be fixed? > You bought a racing sim, got THE top racing sim on the market, and there > was no fix or update promised. The writer was implying that GP2 was some > sort of unfinished product, the "black and white TV" of the analogy, and > that is from where my "valve model" came from. Since GP2 is, IMO, > superior to anything else on the market by now, it stands to reason that > they must be lower than the black and white TV on the racing-sim > evolutionary scale. > I'd love to see your NICAM, widescreen HDTV model, but it's not > available. GP2 poor? Compared to what? > Cheers! > JohnBTW that thing about wet weather being possible is bullshit.
Still, I lend support to your campaign.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Parkstone Motor Company,
Southend on Sea, Essex
United Kingdom.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> I never looked on the MPS web-site so I won`t comment on that but if
> you care to look carefully at the box (UK version anyway) everything
> that was promised on it was delivered.
Need to check MPS before posting your opinion.
They promised multiplayer and
They promised multiplayer, but I dont think they promised it from
another game modem link!
There was no mention of network
No, they didnt "mention" wet weather, but they did advertize most
reaslistic sim ever. 35%(sometimes more)
or F1 races are usually run in the rain.
I'd like to sell you a car sometime, it sounds like youll buy anything.
There may be things in the game
This is a statement from someone who doesnt demand the best and will
settle for half-ass which is what this sim is. Comon, a modem link that
was designed for a older game and a sim that wont run on the fastest
hardware
manufactured without turning off over half of the graphics!
For what people care (very little
That is an opinion with out much thought or research.
says...
sorry it was a joke! thats why i left the smiley there
being from the uk i thought you would have seen the funny side
but my apologies if i got your back up
The Campaign grows!!!!! The Teamsters Union is born (thanks dave for the name)
watch this space for details
btw dave can you email me back..i lost your address when win95 had a tantrum
and decided to kill everything!
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Parkstone Motor Company,
>Southend on Sea, Essex
>United Kingdom.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted text (10 lines)
> You bought a racing sim, got THE top racing sim on the market, and there > was no fix or update promised. The writer was implying that GP2 was some > sort of unfinished product, the "black and white TV" of the analogy, and > that is from where my "valve model" came from. Since GP2 is, IMO, > superior to anything else on the market by now, it stands to reason that > they must be lower than the black and white TV on the racing-sim > evolutionary scale. > I'd love to see your NICAM, widescreen HDTV model, but it's not > available. GP2 poor? Compared to what?Very well put and handled Mark, I didnt mean to "butt" in , but I was
just simply posting my opinions in the
hope that some people would wake up just a little and really start
demanding more for their patience and money. I might give a hard
critique but I hope it keeps the integrity of future sims for the
"***" sim
fanatics. The guys that stay up at night just to get one more lap in and
devote alot of their time just to
"squeeze" that extra 10th of a second outa a lap (some of these guys
know exactly what I'm talking about).
Its this fraternity that deserves a serious racing sim that doesnt take
shortcuts to meet deadlines and collect royalties. My comments are
directed to the game designers that read these post (we know your
whatching
and are probably posting replys under an alias). Isnt it amazing the way
the Microprose team members dont
ever reply, I mean comon their very aware of this newsgroup!. Anyway, I
dont mean to***anyone off, but
Its for the quality of future sims in the future. Its for "the Boys"!
Again Mark no heat intended. -David Gary
I hope that someday all of our practice will pay off and we will all be
able to race together in a virtual
world(with no LAG) and enjoy each others competition and comments. Only
we can "push" this closer to the future. It is up to US. I dont like
paying for a cadillac and finding out it doesnt have AC or a stereo!
> "It" is not that simple. What is?
The Question was simple not the work in designing the SIM.
I dont understand your meaning of "well". 30fps is video speed and is
the hope of any virtual racing fanatic.
With p200/mill4meg/512 cache this game wont run 25fps with half graphics
loaded, so its hard to understand the gray area of "well". Running the
game via modem cuts the already unaccepted framerate in half, so I
REALLY find it hard to believe for any serious SIM fanatic to agree with
that statement. GP1(in my opinion) was a game instead of a true sim. It
really wasnt that good in its time and i think people only excepted it
because it was the latest thing going for F1 fans. ICR1(to me) gave the
first real taste of a virtual racing sim.
If you ever study the response of interest between the 2 I think youll
find ICR1 in favor.
Your correct, no one is saying GP2 is pefect. The problem is no one is
saying its NOT perfect. (understand?)
I find this very hard to believe and hope you tell me how you derived
upon this statement, Do you seriously
believe someone that has taken a career in this field and is not reading
what people have to say about his so
called "masterpiece"?
and NO-ONE is going to listen to a
I have to admit I started off on the wrong foot with my posts and will
be the first one to admit it.
I have said things that I DO regret to a certain extent. I want people
to listen to someone that demands
the best and hopefully they will to, Its hard to listen to insult, my
apology.
None taken John, I hope their are no hard feelings because I enjoy
anyone who shares a love for this hobby
and I may sometimes get "heated", so please understand that Im just a
perfectionist and I give the best,
but I also demand the best! -David Gary
Feel free to check out the fastest Monster Truck Madness team on the
net. I go under the alias of CRAZYACE
[
FlyBoyz < 1K ]
HTTP/1.0 500 Server Error (Insufficient system resources exist to complete the requested service. )
>> available. GP2 poor? Compared to what?
>Compared to what MP promised on the box, in their web site and
>in all the pre-release marketing BS. Face it, MP shipped an
>incomplete product and we have every right to expect an update.
I never looked on the MPS web-site so I won`t comment on that but if
you care to look carefully at the box (UK version anyway) everything
that was promised on it was delivered. They promised multiplayer and
linked capabilities and delivered both (even if they don`t run as
quickly as a single-player game). There wsa no mention of network
capabilities on the box, nor of wet-weather racing or changing
conditions. There was no mention made of utilities to edit the game.
As was already mentioned elsewhere the vast majority of the "BS" was
created by us, the paying consumers. As MPS provided what was
advertised on the box I don`t understand why people think we have some
sort of God-given right to a patch. There may be things in the game
such as pit-stops, damage and spins that people don`t like but you
can`t please everybody with a single product, and these were not
different from how they were advertised. Where people may have cause
for complaint is if the game was badly bugged but the only time I have
ever seen GP2 crash was when it was run under Win95, something which
the documentation advises against. For what people care (very little
I would imagine ;-) ) I don`t think you can call GP2 incomplete.
Mark
_________________________________
"..every lap I think `Oh bollocks!
This is dreadful..`" Damon Hill
__________________________________
If I was Geoff Crammond I would tell the lot of them to get stuffed. A
patch is being made so we all just have to be patient and wait a bit.
Jeez ok so GP2 is not 100% just yet but it is close. We should give
the bloke a fair go as he was rushed by the masses to release it
before he really wanted to. I dont think he will do it again as the
back stabbing is rather sad to see. He is only human and I for one
think he has done heaps for the racing sims and appeciate his work.
Microprose are working on the speed at this moment to make sure it is
fast enough over a network. With all the back lash they wont realese
it till its 100% right and who could blame them..
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
Quoted text (17 lines)
>On Tue, 29 Oct 1996 23:03:28 퍍, John Wallace >>Can we keep it civil? The discussion is a valid one, but another thread >>turned into a slanging match is just a waste of time. >Oops. Sorry to everyone out there. I was trying to keep reasonably >civil & not responding too much in kind, but it does get a little >difficult at times :( >I also tend to be just a little too defensive when criticisms are made >of the programmers that I admire, especially if they are vulgar, >personal attacks. >Valid, substantiated criticisms of the _products_ are on topic for >this group. Personal attacks on the programmers are _not_ and are >inevitably counterproductive.On Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:58:17 퍍, John Wallace
No I think you read what I said wrong. I like the sim and play it to
death. i dont give a shit if a patch is made or not. The point is they
said IPX net work in the mags Wet weather and more. That is not in the
game at the moment. Now i have e-mailed microprose and they said YES a
patch is coming out about December so the game is not yet finished.
All in all i am satisfied with GP2 and some are not. I think some have
gone over the top in voicing there opinions but thats that. I trust
microprose as they have been good in the past and I have faith they
will deliver in the end.
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
Quoted text (17 lines)
>>That is not what the writer was implying. Microprose advertised >>something and did not deliver the full adverti***t. As he said...How >>would you like to buy a colour T.V and find out it is black and white >>to be told that a fix for it will be available when ever. >"Fix"? What has to be fixed? >You bought a racing sim, got THE top racing sim on the market, and there >was no fix or update promised. The writer was implying that GP2 was some >sort of unfinished product, the "black and white TV" of the analogy, and >that is from where my "valve model" came from. Since GP2 is, IMO, >superior to anything else on the market by now, it stands to reason that >they must be lower than the black and white TV on the racing-sim >evolutionary scale. >I'd love to see your NICAM, widescreen HDTV model, but it's not >available. GP2 poor? Compared to what?Thats no argument !!
Name me ONE game with no patches..
Mose
"It" is not that simple. What is?
The game DOES run well on the fastest hardware - I've tried it. The game
DOES run well over modem. Cast your mind back to F1GP and remember the
hardware demands it made of your PC.
No-one is saying GP2 is perfect, I personally ran a campaign in Sim News
asking what people wanted to see, collected thousands of responses,
collated them and forwarded them to Geoff and the design team. Craig
Heath did a very similar thing for bug fixes.
Geoff doesn't read the newsgroups, and NO-ONE is going to listen to a
bunch of people ***ing and whining, especially if they are being
insulting to boot. Think about what can be done constructively, and if
that has already been done or you can't think of anything, perhaps you
could avoid rehashing what has already been said or insulting people.
No offence intended, I've just seen all this so many times before. (No,
it didn't work those times either).
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \._____\
[link lost in import: /~harmon/simnews]
So how would onefeel ifyou went to FORD & bought a Mondeo Ghia
& ended up with a Mondeo L (Nosteror, no sunroof, no abs etc
I suppose you'll just say well itsbetterthan such & such &
accept it.
GP2 is good, but no weather, 1994 teams & not able to change
no decent sound, this isa half finished productthat MP released due
to the pressureof the market place, I mean it
was morethana year late ??
Rob
Quoted text (9 lines)
> From memory, there is nothing about weather or network or any other > `missing` feature on the box of the British version. > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Parkstone Motor Company, > Southend on Sea, Essex > United Kingdom. > -----------------------------------------------------------------> So how would onefeel ifyou went to FORD & bought a Mondeo Ghia
> & ended up with a Mondeo L (Nosteror, no sunroof, no abs etc
I went to a computer store, looked at a box for GP2 and decided I
wanted to buy it because what I saw on the box. Even after all of the
hype if I didn`t like what I saw I wouldn`t have bought it. When I
installed the software I got GP2, as advertised and not some other
product so I think your analagy is a little misplaced.
If I was sold something other than the advertised product I would
politely request my original purchase or a full refund. I don`t think
this is the case here.
At least we agree that GP2 is good :-) Once again, rain wasn`t
advertised on the box. GC had no choice about the 1994 season data,
as that is what was liscenced to MPS by the FIA. IMHO the sound in
GP2 is top notch, little effects such as stones being kicked up in the
gravel, wheels over rumble strips and downchanges etc. You are
probably right about the game being released early due to consumer
pressure. But then when some of the people who were applying the
pressure don`t get everything they wanted they start to moan. That
hardly seems fair on GC and his programming team.
Mark
_________________________________
"..every lap I think `Oh bollocks!
This is dreadful..`" Damon Hill
__________________________________
>> I never looked on the MPS web-site so I won`t comment on that but if
>Need to check MPS before posting your opinion.
So I need to check the MPS site before I can post an opinion on the
box?
They didn`t promise it wouldn`t be from another game either ;-) They
haven`t conned anyone here.
IMHO it is the most realistic racing sim ever. AFAICT the only other
"sim" to have had rain was GP1. Even without rain GP2 is more
realistic than the original in terms of the model, graphics and sound.
People could argue that the changing weather in ICR2 make it more
realistic than GP2, but that is a matter of preference.
That depends on whether or not I trust the person who is doing the
selling ;-)
Judging a person on a single statement or belief is rarely a very wise
choice. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, so just because you
think the sim is half assed doesn`t mean everybody is inclined to
agree with you. I was pointing out that the decisions about damage
etc were made so that the game would appeal to a wider market and not
just a small core of hardened racing fans. I personally would have
prefered more realism in this area, but MPS know I`m not the only
person they have to convince to buy their software. When the GP1 was
released hardly anybody I knew could run it with full detail, now most
can run it in a DOS box, full detail, 25 FPS and get around 35% PO at
worst. I doubt if it wil be too long before the hardware is available
to run most of the graphics options. Isn`t this just a little common
sense from GC in not limiting the grahics to what will run on current
spec. machines?
The _joke_ was meant to point out that a lot of people who read the
newsgroups aren`t interested in listening to what others have to say,
merely trying to shout the loudest.
Please take a little care when you reply to a post. The above would
indicate that I originally posted the "David Gary Quote", which isn`t
the case.
If you dislike the product so much don`t play it, take it back to the
store where you purchased it and see if you can get it swapped or
refunded. If you can`t maybe you`ll be a little more careful with
your money in the future ;-)
Mark
_________________________________
"..every lap I think `Oh bollocks!
This is dreadful..`" Damon Hill
__________________________________
[cut a damn lot of bullshit among other things]
hey gary
what do you really want ? why don't you just leave it alone ? and why
don't you sit down and write YOUR f1-sim, that beats gp2 ? that would be
a constructive thing ...
addie
Quoted text (8 lines)
> [cut a damn lot of bullshit among other things] > > That is an opinion with out much thought or research. > > > "..every lap I drive in GP2, I think `Oh bollocks! > > > This is dreadful..`" David Gary > hey gary > what do you really want ?> My system is P-200, Herc-128 and 32Mb SDRAM - it runs perfectly at 25fps
> with half graphics loaded so I'm not sure of the origin of that factoid
> of yours. With a P-Pro 200 it's even smoother. You know what DOESN'T run
> well on my system with all graphics on - NASCAR, and that's waaaaay
> older than GP2.
Sorry John, I shoulda given more info, That statement was refering to
the framerate tested at
Monaco. (My favorite track and the only track that ,to me, shows more
detail than ICR2). I have a p200 w/mill4meg/lastest triton board,intel
chipset ,512 cache, 32 meg. Also It depend on what you agree
Half detail is- i.e. smoke and high object detail raise the CPU
occupancy higher than, say curbs,
fenses, verges, etc.
Well I dont know where "elsewhere" is, but I'm sure WE both know if I
was "elsewhere" I would have been happy to give my 2 cents worth
then!(grin)
Gp1 used 1 sided bitmaps instead of polyed models(like ICR1) and the
handling felt like I was playing on the ol' Atari 2600, almost reminded
me of Formula 1 at the arcade.
ICR2 ,again to me, was much more convincing and the replay option was
great, I wont even comment on GP1's replay.
Well I dont think we have to take a vote, From what I've read, 9 outa 10
dentists say ICR2 was more of a "SIM"
than GP1.
A figure of speech.
Your actually one of the few that are saying its acceptable!
You are absolutely correct!, Not with people who settle for something
thats not complete.
Yeah, unfortunatly, they cant hit the ball much less a homerun!
is by far the best sim AND arcade racer around at the moment,
Best? What is Best? We will never have the the best sim and in
best something for one group!!
Unfortunately, they bought it not knowing what they were in for. Thats
why their shouting!
If they kept quiet then it will happen again and again, evidently
Microprose could care less!
Well be sure next time you "talk" to them, you let them know that the
majority
of the serious racing fraternity does not accept modem links that chop
the
already "contreversal" framerate in half because they used the link
from a
older game!!
and if we do get a patch/update/new modified release I
I hope so, Hey if you have contact directly with the game designers then
you
should know if their coming out with a patch are not. Are they?!! I hope
so!!
See ya in ***space my friend!! -David Gary
Hmmm, I don't think I did misunderstand.
The MAGS said there was network play? So have a go at them, what
justification is that to have a go at Microrpose? The mags also said
there was wet weather, but as far as we published in Sim Racing News
after talking with Microprose, there was NO wet weather. If facts are
reported wrongly because people can't be bothered to check them, then
this is one case you should shoot the messenger.
As for a patch at Christmas, I won't be holding my breath.
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
>Very well put and handled Mark, I didnt mean to "butt" in , but I was
>just simply posting my opinions in the
>hope that some people would wake up just a little and really start
>demanding more for their patience and money.
At last, we`re in agreement :-) Although I think GP2 is a great game
it seems that GC has gone a little backwards in some areas (as has
already been said). If GP1 had realistic pit stop lengths for damage
and wet weather then why couldn`t\shouldn`t GP2? I was trying to
point out that MPS had in fact sold what they advertised on the box.
<snip>
I know exactly what you mean. Many is the night I`ve got hardly any
sleep because I`ve been extremely close to beating my PB.
<snip>
Cheers, much appreciated.
<snip>
Its a nice vision but I guess its a way off yet.
Mark
_________________________________
"..every lap I think `Oh bollocks!
This is dreadful..`" Damon Hill
__________________________________
> The MAGS said there was network play? So have a go at them, what
> justification is that to have a go at Microrpose? The mags also said
> there was wet weather, but as far as we published in Sim Racing News
> after talking with Microprose, there was NO wet weather. If facts are
> reported wrongly because people can't be bothered to check them, then
> this is one case you should shoot the messenger.
I need to check on this, but I believe that on the European Version
box changing weather is said to be a feature. Anyone can confirm
this?
Bye,
Luca
Quoted text (25 lines)
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >--------------167957E55C77 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> "It" is not that simple. What is? >The Question was simple not the work in designing the SIM. >> The game DOES run well on the fastest hardware - I've tried it. The game >> DOES run well over modem. Cast your mind back to F1GP and remember the >> hardware demands it made of your PC. >I dont understand your meaning of "well". 30fps is video speed and is >the hope of any virtual racing fanatic. >With p200/mill4meg/512 cache this game wont run 25fps with half graphics >loaded, so its hard to understand the gray area of "well". Running the >game via modem cuts the already unaccepted framerate in half, so I >REALLY find it hard to believe for any serious SIM fanatic to agree with >that statement. GP1(in my opinion) was a game instead of a true sim. It >really wasnt that good in its time and i think people only excepted it >because it was the latest thing going for F1 fans. ICR1(to me) gave the >first real taste of a virtual racing sim. >If you ever study the response of interest between the 2 I think youll >find ICR1 in favor.Quoted text (13 lines)
> >No I think you read what I said wrong. I like the sim and play it to > >death. i dont give a shit if a patch is made or not. The point is they > >said IPX net work in the mags Wet weather and more. That is not in the > >game at the moment. > Hmmm, I don't think I did misunderstand. > The MAGS said there was network play? So have a go at them, what > justification is that to have a go at Microrpose? The mags also said > there was wet weather, but as far as we published in Sim Racing News > after talking with Microprose, there was NO wet weather. If facts are > reported wrongly because people can't be bothered to check them, then > this is one case you should shoot the messenger.So basically in layman terms, Microprose, couldnt give a shit that the
job is incomplete. They have our money after all.
I dont have much confidence in them anymore. Imagine if Xcom3 or 1944 EAW
are incomplete as well ?? I wonder were you go from here with Microprose.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Parkstone Motor Company,
Southend on Sea, Essex
United Kingdom.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From memory, there is nothing about weather or network or any other
`missing` feature on the box of the British version.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Parkstone Motor Company,
Southend on Sea, Essex
United Kingdom.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:59:53 +0000, Luca Varani
?I need to check on this, but I believe that on the European Version
?box changing weather is said to be a feature. Anyone can confirm
?this?
I've bought the English version (in Holland) and the box doesn't
mention anything about (changing) weather conditions.
It does say "multi-player capability" (I guess this is the hot-seat
multiplayer option) and another bullet on the box mentions link and
modem play.
Bye,
Erik.
Erik van 't Woud
On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:59:53 +0000, Luca Varani
it's a pitty, There's no weatherchange button or something like that.
__________________________
Remco Freeze
the Netherlands
Quoted text (10 lines)
>> The MAGS said there was network play? So have a go at them, what >> justification is that to have a go at Microrpose? The mags also said >> there was wet weather, but as far as we published in Sim Racing News >> after talking with Microprose, there was NO wet weather. If facts are >> reported wrongly because people can't be bothered to check them, then >> this is one case you should shoot the messenger. >I need to check on this, but I believe that on the European Version >box changing weather is said to be a feature. Anyone can confirm >this?Same thing on the French Box
--
Gerald ;-)
http://web.club-internet.fr/gaubard
Paris sera toujours Paris...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Parkstone Motor Company,
> Southend on Sea, Essex
> United Kingdom.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
Until i get this web page thingy set up this is the only email address to use
to complain bitterly to microprose:
it goes directly to MP UK
Why? The site was utter BS and about six months out of date. It was
reported on Microprose forum on CompuServe MANY months before release
that there would be no IPX and from then on we (Sim News) lobbied the
GP2 team to include it.
Changing weather was there, but it basically came to a choice between
further delays or no weather. The decision was made and we live with it
- hopefully only for now.
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
My system is P-200, Herc-128 and 32Mb SDRAM - it runs perfectly at 25fps
with half graphics loaded so I'm not sure of the origin of that factoid
of yours. With a P-Pro 200 it's even smoother. You know what DOESN'T run
well on my system with all graphics on - NASCAR, and that's waaaaay
older than GP2.
This has been talked to death elsewhere. I disagree but it's horses for
courses. Youy didn't like it? Fine, let's move on.
If I knew what "response of interest" meant I might do that! That's not
facetious, it's a phrase I've never heard before.
Of course - actually I thought MANY people were saying it's not perfect,
but let's gloss over that for now. Perfect? What is perfect? We will
never have the perfect sim and in perfecting something for one group you
will naturally make it imperfect for another. GP2 covers the bases well,
and is by far the best sim AND arcade racer around at the moment, and
that is the opinion of many of the 300,000 or so who rushed out to buy
it immediately. Some are upset and they are shouting loudly, alas that
is the way of the world.
I know this because I talked a great deal with the development team
during the writing of GP2, and they collected info from certain places,
sifted out the facts and forwarded them to Geoff. We at Sim News did
some work and research for them. So yes, I do believe it.
Glad to hear it, and if we do get a patch/update/new modified release I
will join you in being the happiest group of people on the planet (with
the possible exception of Pamela Anderson's baby - I'm assuming she's
breat feeding). I'm not sure how likely this is and I think we should
approach it in a good manner. We think of this area as our "sounding
off" place, but a lot of people read this who we couldn't imagine.
Opinions are easily formed.
Nice chatting!
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
>> why don't you just leave it alone ?
> Cant do that, hopefully if WE demand more, we wont have to put up with
> settling for something thats far from
> finished!
i just think your way is a wrong way to demand more. btw there is no natural
right to demand more. its an offer and demand thingy going on you know.
you really think its that easy dont you ? big mouth and know how to post ***
to a newsgroup, i dont think thats enough to write a f1 sim, its not even
enough to write a LOUSY f1 sim.
up to now i just saw your big mouth complaining and abusing ...
i AM interested in real racing sims, but i am also interested in a little
bit more descency and constructivity in the REAL world.
i m not dependent on what YOU offer to me ('offer and demand', remember ?).
may be i want an airplane, so i look whats outthere, i would even look at
yours, and if i like one, i ll get it. i would have a close look at it,
BEFORE i buy it. if there would be serious trouble afterwards, there would be
the money back guarantee. so what do you want ?
addie ?)
if you would complain about windows95 and all the other mircosoft ***
software, i would understand. but complaining about a computer game ... jiz,
what a waste of energy
Quoted text (17 lines)
> When I bought GP1, I couldn't get max details on my hardware. > When I bought ICR1, I couldn't get max details on my hardware. I could by > then with GP1. > When I bought ICR2, I couldn't get max details on my hardware. I could by > then with ICR1. > Notice a trend? Just think of all the time I could have spent ***ing > about my inability to run the game with max details on my current > hardware rather than playing it ;-) > I can't get max details with GP2, but there again I can't on either > NASCAR or ICR2. (I _don't_ have a P200 - yet <g>). > I know you started off by comparing GP1 to ICR1, but you seem to have > slipped into comparing it with ICR2! There was a four year gap between > the release of GP1 & ICR2 so it's hardly worth trying to compare them. > Might as well compare GP1 with Pole Position or GP2 with Indy 500 <g>Quoted text (30 lines)
> On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:13:01 GMT, "Henrikki (Hena) H?kk?nen" > >> >No I think you read what I said wrong. I like the sim and play it to > >> >death. i dont give a shit if a patch is made or not. The point is they > >> >said IPX net work in the mags Wet weather and more. That is not in the > >> >game at the moment. > >> Hmmm, I don't think I did misunderstand. > >> The MAGS said there was network play? So have a go at them, what > >> justification is that to have a go at Microrpose? The mags also said > >> there was wet weather, but as far as we published in Sim Racing News > >> after talking with Microprose, there was NO wet weather. If facts are > >> reported wrongly because people can't be bothered to check them, then > >> this is one case you should shoot the messenger. > >Are you saying that you NEVER visited or read MP's web site prior > >to the release date?!? They explicitly(sp?) said that the game will > >feature changing weather and network play! > I allready told him that. I tried to make him understand in a follow > up message but I still dont think he will understand. I seen it all at > the site myself. You know what some are like.. :-)On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:13:01 GMT, "Henrikki (Hena) H?kk?nen"
I allready told him that. I tried to make him understand in a follow
up message but I still dont think he will understand. I seen it all at
the site myself. You know what some are like.. :-)
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
Quoted text (17 lines)
>> >No I think you read what I said wrong. I like the sim and play it to >> >death. i dont give a shit if a patch is made or not. The point is they >> >said IPX net work in the mags Wet weather and more. That is not in the >> >game at the moment. >> Hmmm, I don't think I did misunderstand. >> The MAGS said there was network play? So have a go at them, what >> justification is that to have a go at Microrpose? The mags also said >> there was wet weather, but as far as we published in Sim Racing News >> after talking with Microprose, there was NO wet weather. If facts are >> reported wrongly because people can't be bothered to check them, then >> this is one case you should shoot the messenger. >Are you saying that you NEVER visited or read MP's web site prior >to the release date?!? They explicitly(sp?) said that the game will >feature changing weather and network play!On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:27:50 퍍, John Wallace
>>No I think you read what I said wrong. I like the sim and play it to
>>death. i dont give a shit if a patch is made or not. The point is they
>>said IPX net work in the mags Wet weather and more. That is not in the
>>game at the moment.
>Hmmm, I don't think I did misunderstand.
Yes you did. You seem to think i dont like the game. As I said I do
like the game.
Well what on earth has that got to do with the mags. Quote all the
text. I did say they can get it wrong but surly not 90% of the mags
over the world. Shoot the messenger well that I'll agree on so here is
a quote from a reply from microprose.
Snip...........
UK office for replies. Currently, we are working on an upgrade patch
for
network support, however, it will probably be a substantial amount of
time
before it is released. Due to the huge amount of information that
needs to be
transmitted across a LAN, we are trying to find the most streamlined
manner in
which to accomplish this.
Regards,
Jeff Martin
Senior Technician / GP-2
Spectrum HoloByte / Microprose U.S.
snip...
There was a few bits telling me they would E-mail me when ready.
Anyway if the patch is not available I'll catch a Jumbo jet and meet
you at the Microprose office and shoot him together.
I'll repeat again. I like the game, I play the game and I am happy
with the game. I am only saying what what I have been told from
Microprose and not having a go at them so you have know justifacation
having a go at me because there is the message.
I believe it wont be to long. If not big deal I can live with it..
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
Meanwhile......
As the rest of us walk away from all the mud-slinging going on.
Has anybody actually got any news form microprose lately?
I seem to always get conflicting messges?
There's also nothing about wet weather on
the bos of the german version.
Tom!
>> The game DOES run well on the fastest hardware - I've tried it.
>I dont understand your meaning of "well". 30fps is video speed and is
>the hope of any virtual racing fanatic.
>With p200/mill4meg/512 cache this game wont run 25fps with half graphics
>loaded, so its hard to understand the gray area of "well".
Uh... sorry David, John was talking about the "fastest hardware",
not some P5. Don't buy into the "P6 is no good for sims" BS.
Monaco slows things down a bit, but most other tracks seem to be
smooth as in-car coverage on TV. My P6 is the oldest and slowest
"debugged" 200 Mhz unit. I turn off all mirrors, so the cars float in
a blue field, and I turn off the sky texture, everything else is maxed.
Frame rate is NOT a problem. Processor occupancy sometimes goes above
100% (not often), but not enough that I notice the time warp.
I'm also disappointed in GP2's shortcomings, and MPS intention to
not perform upgrades. Let me repeat what I suggested earlier in this
thread. Enjoy the things GP2 does well now, I'm having a blast, and
hope for a better simulator from Psygnoses in December, and from
Visiware early in 97.
If that's not good enough, get a lawyer, or solicitor, and sue the
bastards! In the US, if you convict someone of fraud you can send
them to jail. A couple of years in the slammer will show them. Good
luck.
Larry
===========================================================================
Larry Lindstrom. Consultant - Unix - X Window - Comms
Reality, there's nothing else quite like it.
Shane, what I understand and what I believe are two different things. I
do believe you like GP2, and I do understand your POV, I just don't
agree. Now because I don't agree you may think I don't understand, but I
can assure you I do.
How many sources of info do the mags have? If one gets it wrong they all
get it wrong. The situation was changing daily at MPS, just look at all
the stuff that got left out the game and is there half-finished. Time
and public demand shot it in the foot, not to mention all the delays and
overestimations of what could be completed.
If I thought it would help me get IPX and Kali stuff then I might just
do that!!
Likewise. I'm quoting what I have heard and spoken about. Please don't
think I'm "having a go", it's very rare that I indulge in anything
beyond friendly discussion around here these days :)
Well, I've been chatting with a guy on CompuServe who swears the patch
is for Rendition support and he too has "spoken to Microprose". Again
the story changes constantly! Me, I want both but would waaaaaaay prefer
IPX and Kali. Let's wait and see, I'd happily accept anything. The way
GP2 slows down when TWO cars are controlled is scary, I just wonder what
it would be like with EIGHT! :((((
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
He He He you got 2 hopes
Bob Hope & Envelope & thats your lot
Rob
People in the "serious racing fraternity" drive cars, not video games.
JDM
Quoted text (13 lines)
> >> Well, I've been chatting with a guy on CompuServe who swears the patch > is for Rendition support and he too has "spoken to Microprose". Again the > story changes constantly! >> > Hm, John, you must be talking about me. I don't need to swear anything. > I called Microprose US tech support and that is what I said. I pressed > hard for a release date but the rep didn't budge. He just said that there > was no set release date for it and wouldn't give me a ballpark. And just > to clear up confusion I asked him again, succinctly about Rendition > support and he repeated that this is what was in the patch. You make it > sound like I'm something less than trustworthy. > RandyOn Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:43:52 퍍, Julian Anderson
>So basically in layman terms, Microprose, couldnt give a shit that the
>job is incomplete. They have our money after all.
>I dont have much confidence in them anymore. Imagine if Xcom3 or 1944 EAW
>are incomplete as well ?? I wonder were you go from here with Microprose.
GP2 is one of the better Microprose releases of the last year or so. Just
about all of the others (other than Civ 2) seemed to have been badly
rushed into production with serious bugs. A pity as I used to associate
Microprose with quality sims. Now I am wary of their games unless I know
the work & integrity of the actual programming team.
Richard
When I bought GP1, I couldn't get max details on my hardware.
When I bought ICR1, I couldn't get max details on my hardware. I could by
then with GP1.
When I bought ICR2, I couldn't get max details on my hardware. I could by
then with ICR1.
Notice a trend? Just think of all the time I could have spent ***ing
about my inability to run the game with max details on my current
hardware rather than playing it ;-)
I can't get max details with GP2, but there again I can't on either
NASCAR or ICR2. (I _don't_ have a P200 - yet <g>).
I know you started off by comparing GP1 to ICR1, but you seem to have
slipped into comparing it with ICR2! There was a four year gap between
the release of GP1 & ICR2 so it's hardly worth trying to compare them.
Might as well compare GP1 with Pole Position or GP2 with Indy 500 <g>
See above. Whilst ICR1 was (is) also more of a sim than GP1 there was a
two year gap. Not surprising that the sim was better. Similarly (modem &
damage stuff aside), GP2 is a much better _sim_ than ICR2.
Some of those who think it is acceptable have experience of real open
wheel racing. I wonder why they consider it acceptable if it isn't? I'ld
rather trust their opinion than the many who have complained about GP2
but don't have the real life experience.
Caveat emptor. There was a lot of hype, but anyone who read SRN or the
posts from the knowledgable individuals in this ng in the days before and
immediately after the release would have known what to expect. I did & I
got what I expected. What's more, the more I've been driving it, the more
the subtleties of the driving model have become apparent.
Cheers,
Richard
On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:13:46 GMT, "Henrikki (Hena) H?kk?nen"
Yes that is all I am saying to. As you have probably seen some people
are going over the top in there demands and being very rude about it
and deserve a bit of flack. After all we all must be allowed to have
our say other wise nothing would happen. They promised and did not
deliver for reasons that to me are valid. A patch is being made so to
me that is good enough. If not just like you I would not be devestated
either.
Shane Lansky
Hobart,Tasmania
Australia
Quoted text (15 lines)
>> >Are you saying that you NEVER visited or read MP's web site prior >> >to the release date?!? They explicitly(sp?) said that the game will >> >feature changing weather and network play! >> I allready told him that. I tried to make him understand in a follow >> up message but I still dont think he will understand. I seen it all at >> the site myself. You know what some are like.. :-) >I know. I have the highest respect for Mr. Wallace for SRN and his >posts in general, but I don't know why he's denying the fact that >MPS didn't deliver what they promised six months ago, after the >game had been delayed for another six months! >Me too like the game a lot as it is, I just feel it would be better >if we'd got what we'd been promised ...is for Rendition support and he too has "spoken to Microprose". Again the
story changes constantly! >>
Hm, John, you must be talking about me. I don't need to swear anything.
I called Microprose US tech support and that is what I said. I pressed
hard for a release date but the rep didn't budge. He just said that there
was no set release date for it and wouldn't give me a ballpark. And just
to clear up confusion I asked him again, succinctly about Rendition
support and he repeated that this is what was in the patch. You make it
sound like I'm something less than trustworthy.
Randy
Ahhhhh! Let's not start arguing here too! All that was said was that the
story is different depending upon who you ask. Me, I want
eeeeeverything!!!!!
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews
