The REAL NASCAR 2 Question....

Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's that #3 car...") John

> Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we > REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's > that #3 car...") > John NO. -- Brian Fox The Fox Den: Nascar and ICR2 http://www.4w.com/pages/fox AND/OR http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1238 When I die, I want to go peacefully, like my grandfather in his sleep, not screaming like the other passengers in his car.

>Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we >REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's >that #3 car...") > John NO. Papyrus has said multiple times, "No flipping cars". What is this fascination with wrecks anyway? Go buy Need For Speed or one of other arcade games if you want wrecks. Geez... Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

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>>Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we >>REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's >>that #3 car...") >> John >NO. Papyrus has said multiple times, "No flipping cars". >What is this fascination with wrecks anyway? Go buy Need For Speed or one >of other arcade games if you want wrecks. Geez...

Of course if he's british he may have meant the same thing as "bleedin wrecks" Uh, let me rephrase that..... No pun intended. Ron R II *********************************************** ** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down ** *** Ron "Cougar" Riekens II *** **** Owner - Driver **** **** Medallion Motorsports/*** Photography **** *** NASS ARCA Series #96 Pontiac *** ***********************************************

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> > Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we > > REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's > > that #3 car...") > > John > NO. > -- > Brian Fox > The Fox Den: Nascar and ICR2 > http://www.4w.com/pages/fox AND/OR > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1238 > When I die, I want to go peacefully, like my grandfather in his sleep, > not screaming like the other passengers in his car.

The #3 car WILL be included in NASCAR2 :-) YES!! Ty <Ty's NASCAR Racing Page - http://web2.airmail.net/rbyrd >

> > Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we > > REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's > > that #3 car...") You're not even going to see many tumbling crashes in real NASCAR racing these days. The cars all use spoilers now that flip up whenever the car ends up backwards and totally ruins any lift that may otherwise lift the car up. I've personally not seen a flip since.

Ken Schrader 1995 Taladega. Bill Elliot 1996 Taladega. Man were they airborne.

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>> > Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we >> > REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's >> > that #3 car...") >You're not even going to see many tumbling crashes in real NASCAR >racing these days. The cars all use spoilers now that flip up whenever >the car ends up backwards and totally ruins any lift that may otherwise >lift the car up. I've personally not seen a flip since.

Kenny Schrader, Talladega, last year, when his teammate, Jeff Gordon, nudged him comin' out of 2... Ricky Craven, Talladega, this year, when he was nudged during that huge wreck, flipped over Martin into the barrier fence, then came back down over 5 cars into the infield... If a car gets sideways, then there is a distinct possibility that it will flip regardless of the roof flaps, especially at Talladega - Fresh md -

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> > Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we > > REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's > > that #3 car...") > > John > NO.

That's too bad. That REALLY should be included. Are you listening Papyrus/Sierra???

>> > Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we >> > REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's >> > that #3 car...") >You're not even going to see many tumbling crashes in real NASCAR >racing these days. The cars all use spoilers now that flip up whenever >the car ends up backwards and totally ruins any lift that may otherwise >lift the car up. I've personally not seen a flip since. Don't watch much racing do you? Mike

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>> > Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we >> > REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's >> > that #3 car...") >You're not even going to see many tumbling crashes in real NASCAR >racing these days. The cars all use spoilers now that flip up whenever >the car ends up backwards and totally ruins any lift that may otherwise >lift the car up. I've personally not seen a flip since.

cough <<Taladega>> cough, cough <<Ricky Craven>> cough

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>> > Okay, okay, we've heard all the hype about NASCAR 2. But what we >> > REALLY want to know is.... will there be flipping wrecks!? ("Where's >> > that #3 car...") >You're not even going to see many tumbling crashes in real NASCAR >racing these days. The cars all use spoilers now that flip up whenever >the car ends up backwards and totally ruins any lift that may otherwise >lift the car up. I've personally not seen a flip since.

Bill Elliot, Rickey Craven.

Enzo, Your right about tumbling car crashes. It is pretty apparent that the responses you received were from people who are relatively new to NASCAR. I wonder if they know why NASCAR came up with roof flaps in the first place. I would bet you that they don't even know who the other drivers refer to as Bumper. I'll I can say is these boys need to study the history of NASCAR before they make such uneducated comments. TJ

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>Wow, you guys came up with three 'flipping' wrecks in how many THOUSANDS >of laps driven? Fact is flips are VERY rare now and hardly deserving of >the processor hogging calculations they would require. Can you imagine >how difficult it is to realistically model a three dimensionally spinning >object being impacted at different directions and forces. Even if they >could make the flips realistic the game would slow to a crawl while the >computer tried to determine how the car should react. Ever notice the >flipping cars in arcade games? They don't act realistic at all, they >simply bounce around some. I think the majority of people are looking for >realism when they buy this sim. And short of a Cray I don't think Papyrus >would be able to accurately or realistically portray flipping cars. And >so what if something that happens every once every 6,000 miles isn't >included? I hardly think sim fans our being cheated.

I see your point but isn't this like saying that because airplanes fly millions of miles per 1 major crash that flight sims shouldn't have crashes in them, or military flight sims have missle explosions since the military flys way more safe training flights than wartime flights in hostile areas. Likewise, I don't feel cheated per se myself, I think it's just that everyone wants sims to be as absolutely realistic as possible these days. Due to what the fans percieve as the rapid advances in technology they tend to feel that if it can realy happen then it should be possible in the sim version, even if it does only come up 1 or 2 times during a season. I would like to see it advance to the point that it could be included without the assist of a hacker but until then I will enjoy the sim either way as long as it improves on it's predecessors. (I just hope next year it won't be called the Microsoft Million) Ron R II *********************************************** ** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down ** *** Ron "Cougar" Riekens II *** **** Owner - Driver **** **** Medallion Motorsports/*** Photography **** *** NASS ARCA Series #96 Pontiac *** ***********************************************

Wow, you guys came up with three 'flipping' wrecks in how many THOUSANDS of laps driven? Fact is flips are VERY rare now and hardly deserving of the processor hogging calculations they would require. Can you imagine how difficult it is to realistically model a three dimensionally spinning object being impacted at different directions and forces. Even if they could make the flips realistic the game would slow to a crawl while the computer tried to determine how the car should react. Ever notice the flipping cars in arcade games? They don't act realistic at all, they simply bounce around some. I think the majority of people are looking for realism when they buy this sim. And short of a Cray I don't think Papyrus would be able to accurately or realistically portray flipping cars. And so what if something that happens every once every 6,000 miles isn't included? I hardly think sim fans our being cheated.

> realism when they buy this sim. And short of a Cray I don't think Papyrus > would be able to accurately or realistically portray flipping cars. And > so what if something that happens every once every 6,000 miles isn't > included? I hardly think sim fans our being cheated. Flips are for Arcade games. I'd much rather have more setup options. -- Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

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>Wow, you guys came up with three 'flipping' wrecks in how many THOUSANDS >of laps driven? Fact is flips are VERY rare now and hardly deserving of >the processor hogging calculations they would require. Can you imagine >how difficult it is to realistically model a three dimensionally spinning >object being impacted at different directions and forces. Even if they >could make the flips realistic the game would slow to a crawl while the >computer tried to determine how the car should react. Ever notice the >flipping cars in arcade games? They don't act realistic at all, they >simply bounce around some. I think the majority of people are looking for >realism when they buy this sim. And short of a Cray I don't think Papyrus >would be able to accurately or realistically portray flipping cars. And >so what if something that happens every once every 6,000 miles isn't >included? I hardly think sim fans our being cheated.

NFS did it better than most, but it's still cheesy.

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> Wow, you guys came up with three 'flipping' wrecks in how many THOUSANDS > of laps driven? Fact is flips are VERY rare now and hardly deserving of > the processor hogging calculations they would require. Can you imagine > how difficult it is to realistically model a three dimensionally spinning > object being impacted at different directions and forces. Even if they > could make the flips realistic the game would slow to a crawl while the > computer tried to determine how the car should react. Ever notice the > flipping cars in arcade games? They don't act realistic at all, they > simply bounce around some. I think the majority of people are looking for > realism when they buy this sim. And short of a Cray I don't think Papyrus > would be able to accurately or realistically portray flipping cars. And > so what if something that happens every once every 6,000 miles isn't > included? I hardly think sim fans our being cheated.

I agree. I want as much detail and realism as possible but at the same time the game should still be smooth. I won't sacrifice performance for a flippin' wreck. I do however wish there were more wrecks which could be attributed to something other than the "bananna peel" effect.

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>Enzo, >Your right about tumbling car crashes. It is pretty apparent that the >responses you received were from people who are relatively new to NASCAR. >I wonder if they know why NASCAR came up with roof flaps in the first >place. I would bet you that they don't even know who the other drivers >refer to as Bumper. I'll I can say is these boys need to study the history >of NASCAR before they make such uneducated comments. >TJ

That was a rather shallow set of statements you made. I am very familiar with NASCAR and their marvelous roof flaps. It is not true, however, to say that flips have been eliminated... they haven't been. The flips have still been coming in WC, BGN, and ARCA races at Daytona and Talladega. Surely, since you are NASCAR's #1 and most educated fan, I need not list the instances of cars getting airborne since the introduction of the roof flaps. ANYWAY, the reason I asked this question is rather simple. In a magazine review of NASCAR v1.0 (back in the day), I read where the interviewer asked a rep. from Papyrus if there would be flipping wrecks, whereupon the rep. said, "No, not in this version, maybe in a future version..." NASCAR 2 >IS< a FUTURE version, so that is why I asked... John

On Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:13:19 -0700, Chris Humphrey

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>> Wow, you guys came up with three 'flipping' wrecks in how many THOUSANDS >> of laps driven? Fact is flips are VERY rare now and hardly deserving of >> the processor hogging calculations they would require. Can you imagine >> how difficult it is to realistically model a three dimensionally spinning >> object being impacted at different directions and forces. Even if they >> could make the flips realistic the game would slow to a crawl while the >> computer tried to determine how the car should react. Ever notice the >> flipping cars in arcade games? They don't act realistic at all, they >> simply bounce around some. I think the majority of people are looking for >> realism when they buy this sim. And short of a Cray I don't think Papyrus >> would be able to accurately or realistically portray flipping cars. And >> so what if something that happens every once every 6,000 miles isn't >> included? I hardly think sim fans our being cheated. >I agree. I want as much detail and realism as possible but at the same >time the game should still be smooth. I won't sacrifice performance for >a flippin' wreck. I do however wish there were more wrecks which could >be attributed to something other than the "bananna peel" effect.

Ever see Car&Driver? The wrecks were a tad overdone. I'd flip end over end in the air for hours before coming down. Dizzy, dizzy. But that was part of the fun, seeing what I could do with those cars (cross country, over hill, land on roof of my buddy. hehe). Rick

> > realism when they buy this sim. And short of a Cray I don't think Papyrus > > would be able to accurately or realistically portray flipping cars. And > > so what if something that happens every once every 6,000 miles isn't > > included? I hardly think sim fans our being cheated. > Flips are for Arcade games. I'd much rather have more setup options. Flips for flip's sake is arcadish. Agreed! But flips as an inherent possibility because the >>3D<< engine is very realistic is another matter. If the car can move off the ground(over kerbs) it should also roll in the air. But that is not a way to achieve good lap times, is it? :) -- --- Terje Wold Johansen --- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/ --- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.

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>writes: >> Flips are for Arcade games. I'd much rather have more setup options. >Flips for flip's sake is arcadish. Agreed! >But flips as an inherent possibility because >the >>3D<< engine is very realistic is another matter. >If the car can move off the ground(over kerbs) >it should also roll in the air. >But that is not a way to achieve good lap times, is it? :) >-- >--- Terje Wold Johansen

Not unless you've got a jet engine strapped to the back. <g> Actually, I agree with you. However, the Papyrus engine is actually about a 2.5D model. It seems to model acceleration and velocity in Z, just not position. When you come over the top of the rise at the end of the back straight at Mid-Ohio or coming out of the esses at Watkins Glen, the car definitely gets a little light. It's just stuck to the ground, and I suspect this may have more to do with the capabilities of the rendering engine than it does with the physics model. Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

Ya mean I gotta have ALL 4 tires on the ground at the SAME time?!?! Sheesh! No wonder my lap times are so low!!! (G) -- Greg Hicks ___ --------------UUU---UUU-------------------- Check out my website at http://www.koan.com/~ghicks

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> > > realism when they buy this sim. And short of a Cray I don't think Papyrus > > > would be able to accurately or realistically portray flipping cars. And > > > so what if something that happens every once every 6,000 miles isn't > > > included? I hardly think sim fans our being cheated. > > Flips are for Arcade games. I'd much rather have more setup options. > Flips for flip's sake is arcadish. Agreed! > But flips as an inherent possibility because > the >>3D<< engine is very realistic is another matter. > If the car can move off the ground(over kerbs) > it should also roll in the air. > But that is not a way to achieve good lap times, is it? :) > -- > --- Terje Wold Johansen > --- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/ > --- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.

If you want car flipps!! Try The Need for speed and The Need for speed SE.!!!