GP2 - Why keyboard?

I find it interesting to check the newsgroups and the GP2 web pages to compare my GP2 times to those on the net. However, I almost always find that the people posting low times are using the keyboard, and hence steering help. While I can understand someone using keyboard if that's all the have available, but I find it hard to believe that none of these people have a $30 analog joystick or even a $20 digital gamepad. What's the fun in playing with a keyboard when you end up driving around the track in a totally unrealistic manner when you could have at least the reasonable feel of the analog joystick control (for those of us who can't afford or justify a T2, etc)? I've gotten as low as in the 1:29s at Monza with a Gravis Analog Pro with no driving aids - and I know I can get it down to a 1:26 or 1:27, but these 1:22 times seem out of my reach. Cheers, -- Colin Stuckless Memorial University of Newfoundland

[snip] : I've gotten as low as in the 1:29s at Monza with a : Gravis Analog Pro with no driving aids - and : I know I can get it down to a 1:26 or 1:27, : but these 1:22 times seem out of my reach. I also am struggling to a degree. I've decided to stick with Monza until I learn some more setup tricks. I've been able to get down to 1:25.648 (using a T1 & NO driving aids). Now I am ready to dig deeper into the Advanced setup. I tried a few laps with steering help, just to see the difference. This makes it way too easy to do hot laps, but makes it impossible to really simulate driving a F1 car. Out of curiousity, I also tried a Hotlap setup and found it impossible to drive without any aids. I actually did worse than with my setup. Until someone starts posting Hotlaps with no aids and for Joystick & Wheels, everyone will want to work on beating the best times period (which will always be keyboard w/aids). Now I'm not knocking keyboarders. They have their reasons. But, if one can afford a joystick or wheel, this is the only way to go. There also seems to be 2 major camps when it comes down to all of the sims. Those who just work on going fast and those who work on the whole racing experience. I for one don't see the joy in just being able to run the fastest. I'm looking for speed and handling that will get me through a 100% race. While there is something to be gained by "hotlapping", most of it doesn't translate to racing. Take a look at Al Unser, Jr. He hardly ever qualifies well, but when it comes to race day watch out! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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> [snip] > : I've gotten as low as in the 1:29s at Monza with a > : Gravis Analog Pro with no driving aids - and > : I know I can get it down to a 1:26 or 1:27, > : but these 1:22 times seem out of my reach. > I also am struggling to a degree. I've decided to stick with Monza > until I learn some more setup tricks. I've been able to get down to > 1:25.648 (using a T1 & NO driving aids). Now I am ready to dig deeper > into the Advanced setup.

This is my Monza setup - I can manage 1.23.809 with it, using a joystick and nothing but throttle help. It has quite a lot of oversteer though, so you have to be careful. If anyone knows how to cure it I would be grateful... On a related note - to all you GP2 web page owners - can you have different sections for joystick/wheel and keyboard setups, as keyboard setups are useless for people using analogue control methods. Here's the setup: Wings: 06F/01R Gears: 28,35,42,49,56,65 Brake Bias: 62.000 %F Anti-roll F: 3000 lbs Anti-roll R: 100 lbs LF RF LR RR Packers: 40 40 55 55 Fast Bump: 7 7 3 3 Fast Rebound: 4 4 2 2 Slow Bump: 24 24 12 12 Slow Rebound: 16 16 8 8 Spring Rate: 1300 1300 700 700 (lbs) Ride Height: 20.0 20.0 45.0 45.0 (mm) I'll also attatch it in .uue format too, as its only little... Julian _____________________________________________________________________ University of Oxford [ MONZQUA1.UUE < 1K ] [ Section: 1/1 File: monzqual.csl Encoder: Wincode v1.4 ] Original Input File Size: 84 begin 644 monzqual.csl ` end end [ Section: 1/1 File: monzqual.csl Encoder: Wincode v1.4 ]

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> I find it interesting to check the newsgroups and the > GP2 web pages to compare my GP2 times to those on the > net. > However, I almost always find that the people posting > low times are using the keyboard, and hence steering > help. While I can understand someone using keyboard > if that's all the have available, but I find it hard > to believe that none of these people have a $30 analog > joystick or even a $20 digital gamepad. What's the > fun in playing with a keyboard when you end up > driving around the track in a totally unrealistic > manner when you could have at least the reasonable > feel of the analog joystick control (for those of > us who can't afford or justify a T2, etc)? > I've gotten as low as in the 1:29s at Monza with a > Gravis Analog Pro with no driving aids - and > I know I can get it down to a 1:26 or 1:27, > but these 1:22 times seem out of my reach. > Cheers, > -- > Colin Stuckless > Memorial University of Newfoundland

I also have a gravis analog pro joystick and i got 1.23.175 at monza with only throttle help on (with no help i got a 1.23.430). I think if i practised more i could get this time down to a 1.22.7. regards, Marco

Especially on the last lap <g> Richard

I've managed a 1:23.308 at Monza and a 1:23.792 at Silverstone with a "wheel" / pedal combo and no steering help or driving aids. It _is_ possible, but it takes a _lot_ of practice, some experimentation with the set-ups & no social life whatsoever <VBG> If you would like a copy of my setups for the above circuits, just drop me an email. Steering help setups tend to have ridiculous amounts of oversteer. I've been having a look at the racing scene over on Compuserve & there are some really quick guys there. One bloke has just posted a 1:15.987 at Hungary (no aids) and there are some incredible times at Adelaide as well. There's a lot to be said for both approaches. I find getting a consistent setup for a race very hard and concentrating for a full 100% race is very difficult. But at the end of the day, all you've managed is to beat another computer program. With hotlaps, I am not competing against the PC, but against real humans - all be it in a rather stilted manner. The ideal would be Hawaii (or a ICR, GP2 variant), but I just can't afford those international calls :( Richard

Preliminary data from HOF2 strongly supports the view that the fastest way around a GP2 track is with a wheel and pedals and no helps other than opposite lock. The keyboard is NOT faster, unlike F1GP. Using a joystick without steering help is almost certainly doomed to failure. Lock to lock of a few inches? I think not. Now it's my turn to call all the people who accused we of the steering help on club of cheating of cheating themselves, by using opp lock help. *big grin* I'll release the data as part of HOF2 at some point in the future. --

Well I seem to manage. -- Suck The Goat

: > Using a joystick without steering help is almost certainly doomed to : > failure. Lock to lock of a few inches? I think not. those few inches are amplified by the sensitivty decrease with speed option. its not so impossible, think about it ------- Carlos Ribas President MalSoft http://www.nol.net/~draconis

Could it be, that people who spend lots of time playing a raceing sim, mostly spend some money on a wheel ? These guys exercise more than other, and cause of that, they are faster. Cheers Thomas --- Get up, dive down, no problem

> Using a joystick without steering help is almost certainly doomed to > failure. Lock to lock of a few inches? I think not. I don't know about that ... I've done 1:16.284 in Monaco which seems to be faster that the current entry in your HOF2 ... and that's with NO HELPS AT ALL and a tiny little joystick ... Maybe you should ask before speaking against better knowledge .. > -- -- Henrikki (Hena) Hakkanen Tel. +358-(9)0-345 5538 ------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 -------- -------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are mine and does not necessarily reflect those of my employer!

Up to now I've raced only at Monza and Monaco, and after tweaking with the sensitivity values I find the joystick quite confortable. I have disabled all driving aids, opposite lock included. My best times are 1.22.3 at Monza and 1.17.3 at Monaco - obtained in qualifying, so not comparable with the ones in HOF2. I am under the impression that GP2 increases the max lock in tight corners (like Loews) WRT the one selected in the control options. But I could be wrong. Nicola Salmoria

So just think how fast you could be with a wheel..... ;) Whether it's faster or not, it's more realistic and more fun. Cheers! John PS - Nice time BTW! _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

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>>Preliminary data from HOF2 strongly supports the view that the fastest >>way around a GP2 track is with a wheel and pedals and no helps other >>than opposite lock. The keyboard is NOT faster, unlike F1GP. >Could it be, that people who spend lots of time playing a raceing sim, mostly >spend some money on a wheel ? These guys exercise more than other, and cause >of that, they are faster.

could be. I heard about people driving 1:21 's at Monza with joystick. So you can get fast times without a wheel. _____________________________________________________________________ _______ _ _ / \ \ / | \ / Twente University | ___ \ / The Netherlands | | \ / \ / \ ________/ertjan \_/ \_/esteneng _____________________________________________________________________

> >I don't know about that ... I've done 1:16.284 in Monaco which seems > >to be faster that the current entry in your HOF2 ... and that's with > >NO HELPS AT ALL and a tiny little joystick ... > So just think how fast you could be with a wheel..... ;) Whether it's > faster or not, it's more realistic and more fun. As a matter of fact, I think that all the time! My current budget doesn't cut me any slack to buy a decent wheel, though :-( Thanks! -- Henrikki (Hena) Hakkanen Tel. +358-(9)0-345 5538 ------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 -------- -------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are mine and does not necessarily reflect those of my employer!

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> > Using a joystick without steering help is almost certainly doomed to > > failure. Lock to lock of a few inches? I think not. > Up to now I've raced only at Monza and Monaco, and after tweaking with > the sensitivity values I find the joystick quite confortable. I have > disabled all driving aids, opposite lock included. My best times are > 1.22.3 at Monza and 1.17.3 at Monaco - obtained in qualifying, so not > comparable with the ones in HOF2. > I am under the impression that GP2 increases the max lock in tight > corners (like Loews) WRT the one selected in the control options. But I > could be wrong. > Nicola Salmoria

Hi. I too use a joystick (CH flightstick PRO). I have been getting great lap times in hungararing (hungary) . 1:18.595 is my best time. I use a steering lock of 13 degrees, 72% sensitivity on accelerator, same on breaks. (I use the vertical motion of the joystick as throttle/break) I also 66% decrease in lock with speed. What are your joystick values? I would like to try them and see if I can further improve my laptimes.

>>I don't know about that ... I've done 1:16.284 in Monaco which seems >>to be faster that the current entry in your HOF2 ... and that's with >>NO HELPS AT ALL and a tiny little joystick ... >So just think how fast you could be with a wheel..... ;) Whether it's >faster or not, it's more realistic and more fun. What's the best steering wheel out there for the likes of F1GP2 and others like it ? -- Richard Cowl

Have a look at the June and August issues of Sim Racing News at the address in my .sig, and take your pick....!! I have a TSW, but there's lots more good ones out there. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

says... All sensitivities to 90%, lock 12 degrees, 65% decrease with speed. -- Nicola Salmoria

>All sensitivities to 90%, lock 12 degrees, 65% decrease with speed. Maybe I missed the beginning. But any clues on how to make my T2 whell as 'sharp' as possible? I want it so that when I turn it all the way right (or left) I get a REAAAALLLLYY Tight turn. The tightest possible. I'm not sure if GP2 will auto-magically have the MAX X-Left and X-Right = Max Turn of Wheels... Ed \=/, _-===-_-====-_-===-_-=====-_-===-_ /\ /\ / (___,,,}_--= New York, NY _) ) /^\) ^\/ _) =__ iPHONE 4 | CuSeeMe Color available_) ) _ / / _) (_ http://www.walrus.com/~egalvez/ ) /\ )/\/ || | )_) (_ WinTalk Daemon Active _) << > |(,,) )__) -==-___-====-____-====-___-=- || / \)___)\ | \____( )___) )___ \(^o^)/ Use MS IExplorer 3! \(^o^)/ \______(_______;;; __;;; Human Nature is in fact human habit...