racing sims suggestions

I'm about to purchase a racing sim and would like some suggestions on the best and easiest. I have a ms sidewinder pro controller. Thanks, Len Robbins

Where were you? Mars? Buy GP2 now!

GP2 is great, though I have found that my MS Sidewinder Sucks with it. I have returned to be previous Gravis Pro. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Southend, Essex. UK -----------------------------------------------------------------

> I'm about to purchase a racing sim and would like some suggestions on > the best and easiest. I have a ms sidewinder pro controller. Sorry but those terms are mutually exclusive. -- Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or is it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? any comments would be greatly appreciated.

: I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love : them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a : very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or is : it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? : any comments would be greatly appreciated. First consideration is how powerful is your computer. You may not care for the performance hit GP2 creates over ICRx. Secondly, even though both ICRx & GP2 are open-wheel racing simulations, they both approach the discipline from different "artistic" and "programming" sytles. If you are a big F1 fan, I am sure you will say that GP2 blows away ICR2. However, if you are like me and are a racing fan period, you will find GP2 as much fun as ICRx or NASCAR. It will just be different fun. There are enough differences in GP2 to make it a completely different experience. For that reason alone it's worth it. You will have to be your own judge as to whether it is a "vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms". IMO GP2 is an improvement, but only an incremental one. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Don't be too put off by the reported "performance hit" for GP2. When you first get GP2, you will probably think that the frame rate is very slow compared to ICR2. However, there is far more being shown!. Reduce the level of detail in GP2 to more like what you actually get in ICR2 & you will find that you should be able to get near identical frame rates. From my experiments, I reckon that I get about 1-2 fps less in GP2, _but_ it still appears a lot smoother both to look at & in judging breaking points, apexes, etc. (and before anyone asks, that's with an average processor occupancy of less than 70%). My advice is to buy it. As Michael said in the rest of his post, they are two very different approaches to the way that the real world has been simulated, but they are both valid approaches and are both great sims. Richard

> I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love > them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a > very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or is > it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? > any comments would be greatly appreciated. I just picked up GP2 last night. So far, I would rate GP2 better if you are looking for an arcade game and ICR2 far better if you are looking for a simulation. GP2 doesn't give a real driving feal when in traffic. ICR2 makes you think you are part of a real race. Just my opinion, I'm sure!

writes: >> I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love >> them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a >> very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or is >> it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? >> any comments would be greatly appreciated. >I just picked up GP2 last night. So far, I would rate GP2 better if you >are looking for an arcade game and ICR2 far better if you are looking >for a simulation. GP2 doesn't give a real driving feal when in traffic. >ICR2 makes you think you are part of a real race. > Just my opinion, I'm sure! Not just yours partner...ONE BIG DITTO...

Quoted text (13 lines)

>> I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love >> them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a >> very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or is >> it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? >> any comments would be greatly appreciated. >I just picked up GP2 last night. So far, I would rate GP2 better if you >are looking for an arcade game and ICR2 far better if you are looking >for a simulation. GP2 doesn't give a real driving feal when in traffic. >ICR2 makes you think you are part of a real race. > Just my opinion, I'm sure!

Hmm, I hate arcade racing games. But since I have gp2, I haven't played ICR2 anymore. I guess I'll NEVER drive ICR2 again (but I loved it). Looks like my opinion isn't yours. _____________________________________________________________________ _______ _ _ / \ \ / | \ / Twente University | ___ \ / The Netherlands | | \ / \ / \ ________/ertjan \_/ \_/esteneng _____________________________________________________________________

Gp2 is brilliant you bollox

Quoted text (22 lines)

>writes: >>> I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love >>> them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a >>> very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or >is >>> it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? >>> any comments would be greatly appreciated. >>I just picked up GP2 last night. So far, I would rate GP2 better if >you >>are looking for an arcade game and ICR2 far better if you are looking >>for a simulation. GP2 doesn't give a real driving feal when in >traffic. >>ICR2 makes you think you are part of a real race. >> Just my opinion, I'm sure! >Not just yours partner...ONE BIG DITTO...

I think you are all mistaken, if IC2 had the AI that GP2 has in the races, i think I would go to Mars. Get REAL!!! Rui Cook Ferrari, chariots of God

Quoted text (12 lines)

>writes: >>> I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love >>> them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a >>> very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or is >>> it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? >>I just picked up GP2 last night. So far, I would rate GP2 better if you >>are looking for an arcade game and ICR2 far better if you are looking >>for a simulation. GP2 doesn't give a real driving feal when in traffic. >>ICR2 makes you think you are part of a real race. >> Just my opinion, I'm sure! >Not just yours partner...ONE BIG DITTO...

Dissenting opinion here. The AI in GP2 seems better to me, once you get used to it.. GP2 guys seem to really pay attention to what you are trying to do, really search out your weakness in a turn. And this "arcade" thing I keep hearing- I dissagree totally. With all helps off (notably steering, opposite-lock, and throttle), GP2 seems very realistic (at least to what we see in a real race), and is a real challenge to drive. GP2 cars are much "crisper" than the mushy ICR2 model. ICR2 simulates the sound terribly, GP2 does a fantastic job. I didn't realize how important that is to a good sim until GP2. Being able to hear engine load and every nuance of what your throttle and wheels are doing makes driving so much more subtle, in my view. In ICR2, I could hardly tell when I was spining *** or locking up. BTW, when driving, you can only hear you own car... people complain about that, but I'm not sure you can hear as well other cars as what ICR2 presents in a real live race. Bottom line seems to be that Crammond went for getting one car simulated properly at the expense of being able to model any others. Each to his own. I'm an indycar fan more than F1, but I have to admit that I think GP2 is a better sim.

Quoted text (18 lines)

>>> I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love >>> them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a >>> very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or is >>> it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? >>> any comments would be greatly appreciated. >>I just picked up GP2 last night. So far, I would rate GP2 better if you >>are looking for an arcade game and ICR2 far better if you are looking >>for a simulation. GP2 doesn't give a real driving feal when in traffic. >>ICR2 makes you think you are part of a real race. >> Just my opinion, I'm sure! >Hmm, I hate arcade racing games. But since I have gp2, I haven't played ICR2 >anymore. I guess I'll NEVER drive ICR2 again (but I loved it). >Looks like my opinion isn't yours.

Nor mine. I still think ICR2 is excellent but I prefer GP2. It's hard to explain why but the cars just feel better to drive. Easier too I suppose. Tony

Quoted text (23 lines)

> writes: > >> I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love > >> them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a > >> very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or > is > >> it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? > >> any comments would be greatly appreciated. > >I just picked up GP2 last night. So far, I would rate GP2 better if > you > >are looking for an arcade game and ICR2 far better if you are looking > >for a simulation. GP2 doesn't give a real driving feal when in > traffic. > >ICR2 makes you think you are part of a real race. > > Just my opinion, I'm sure! > Not just yours partner...ONE BIG DITTO...

Make that 2.. Long live ICR2!!! (literally too.. i don't want to buy another just yet.. [icr3]) -- /|\ David Otterness / |#\ Lake County, IL, USA / |##\ / |###\ E-mail me at: ----------- \####| / Or find me on UnderNet IRC, \###| / Handle: Roid \##| / \#| / Or go to my home page at: \|/ [link lost in import]

On Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:25:58 -0400, Dan Lambright >I just picked up GP2 last night. So far, I would rate GP2 better if you >are looking for an arcade game and ICR2 far better if you are looking >for a simulation. GP2 doesn't give a real driving feal when in traffic. >ICR2 makes you think you are part of a real race. Personal tastes are bound to differ, but I find exactly the opposite. In ICR2 I was never able to get a setup that allowed close racing with the AI cars. I'm not talking overall speeds as you always can adjust the AI strength but I was always much faster than them on the straights but slower on the corners or vice versa. No matter what I tried in the setups I couldn't get to the point where I was lapping wheel to wheel with the AI. With GP2, the AI seems to act much more like it's another person driving the cars. The only failing in this way is that they rarely crash :( Richard

<...> You gotta make 'em crash;> Ahem... a... actually, what I mean to say is I see plenty of crashes, and encounter yellow cautions and see guys tangled in the grass... The best is when someone's engine lets go in front of you. That is thrilling! (since it is only a sim!) Big rooster tail mess.

>Ahem... a... actually, what I mean to say is I see plenty of crashes, >and encounter yellow cautions and see guys tangled in the grass... >The best is when someone's engine lets go in front of you. That is >thrilling! (since it is only a sim!) Big rooster tail mess. I see my fair share of "Bergers" as well. Great graphics <g> I also often see a puff of smoke from the AI putting a wheel on the dirt or from locking one, but about the only time they actually leave the track is when they are trying to avoid me whilst recovering from one of my spins :( Richard

><...> >>With GP2, the AI seems to act much more like it's another person >>driving the cars. Under water maybe. This is on a Tomcat II, p166, 32mram, svga. Graphics adjusted to est 25.3 fps, set to 22 something. Time slow down 'feature' kills GP2 for me. Great arcade game...when you're not serious....

>>writes: >>>> I have been racing Indycar 1 and 2 for a few years now, and I love >>>> them both. If I bought GP2 would it just be more of the same with a >>>> very slight variation..ie engine sound,***pit graphics, etc... or is >>>> it a vast improvement in gameplay over all previous simms??? >>>I just picked up GP2 last night. So far, I would rate GP2 better if you >>>are looking for an arcade game and ICR2 far better if you are looking >>>for a simulation. GP2 doesn't give a real driving feal when in traffic.

Quoted text (26 lines)

>>>ICR2 makes you think you are part of a real race. >>> Just my opinion, I'm sure! >>Not just yours partner...ONE BIG DITTO... >Dissenting opinion here. The AI in GP2 seems better to me, once you >get used to it.. GP2 guys seem to really pay attention to what you are >trying to do, really search out your weakness in a turn. And this >"arcade" thing I keep hearing- I dissagree totally. With all helps off >(notably steering, opposite-lock, and throttle), GP2 seems very >realistic (at least to what we see in a real race), and is a real >challenge to drive. GP2 cars are much "crisper" than the mushy ICR2 >model. ICR2 simulates the sound terribly, GP2 does a fantastic job. I >didn't realize how important that is to a good sim until GP2. Being >able to hear engine load and every nuance of what your throttle and >wheels are doing makes driving so much more subtle, in my view. In >ICR2, I could hardly tell when I was spining *** or locking up. >BTW, when driving, you can only hear you own car... people complain >about that, but I'm not sure you can hear as well other cars as what >ICR2 presents in a real live race. Bottom line seems to be that >Crammond went for getting one car simulated properly at the expense of >being able to model any others. >Each to his own. I'm an indycar fan more than F1, but I have to admit >that I think GP2 is a better sim.

By arcade, I'm refering to the weird molasses/time slow down 'feature'. The control over your car IS SLOWED DOWN when in heavy traffic, and so are your opponents. I sit and wait until PO gives me the 'all clear' before I regain 'some' modicum of control vs input...this sucks...this is NOT a sim. Also, no real feeling of speed. Play GP2 awhile, then boot up ICR2. cheers...duncan.

Quoted text (8 lines)

>><...> >>>With GP2, the AI seems to act much more like it's another person >>>driving the cars. >Under water maybe. This is on a Tomcat II, p166, 32mram, svga. >Graphics adjusted to est 25.3 fps, set to 22 something. Time slow down >'feature' kills GP2 for me. Great arcade game...when you're not >serious....

I have a similar system as you. Try Turning off sky, track, and all mirror textures except smoke. Then set your FPS to 18. I race Monza all the time with an Occupancy of about 70% most of the time. Only when I spin and have that Smoke-Haze does the occupancy go much over 100%. For some reason in GP2 when you set your FPS to about 2 lower than the estimate, it actually speeds up compared to setting them higher. I set it even lower than 2 for better results. Don't ask me WHY it works, but it DOES. Hope that helps. Cheers. --John -- ------------------- John (Joao) Silva http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jsilva Seattle, Washington USA.

>>Ahem... a... actually, what I mean to say is I see plenty of crashes, >>and encounter yellow cautions and see guys tangled in the grass... >>The best is when someone's engine lets go in front of you. That is >>thrilling! (since it is only a sim!) Big rooster tail mess. Right. Does this kind of thing ever happen in ICR (1 or 2)? The computer cars in ICR never seem to crash or break down.

<...> Ya, I know what you are talking about. They deal with things diferently; my take on it is that ICR2 throws frames out when the going gets tough, whereas GP2 still computes every frame, but that each takes more time in a comlex situation like a start or a wreck.. I don't see how that hurts the "sim" value though, since almost everybody but me with my ancient 486 can get the frame rate low enough (14, in my case) to not slow down much in the thick stuff. After all, if a hard-core driving sim is what is wanted, then VGA with no details should be enough. Let's face it, a REAL F1 or Indycar sim probably should have a Silicon Graphics Onyx or something powering it to even barely get it right.. In two more years, maybe the average PC will be that powerful. We all knew GP2 was going to push the limits on our hardware.

> Gp2 is brilliant you bolloxWell that was a short, succint and informative answer, excellent stuff. Unfortunately, however, not very polite. Mike