*F1GP2 - Moans list and a question.

Considering the time we've had to wait, and the endless "we want it to be as accurate and true-to-life as possible" messages we've had out of Microprose since March, there's some very concerning problems with F1GP2. 1. The damage model is very questionable. Try as I might I cannot cause the car to flip over as it would IRL. Driving it headlong into a wall at 100+mph breaks off the nosecone and then I can continue driving. Why? The car should be a crumpled mess by this point. Granted various parts of the car fly off it you get hit by another car, but not in a realistic fashion. If you scrape the wall, the wheels stay remarkably intact. If you touch someone else's wheel and are flipped up into the air, when you come down the most damage I've had is a broken nosecone. IRL, of course, the car would break behind the***pit and probably catch fire. 2. Shading - if you go under a bridge, the shadow doesn't darken the ***pit. This wouldn't be so bad if Monaco didn't have a tunnel. In there, the***pit should darken and the instruments should become harder to read. 3. Speaking of Monaco - why does the engine sound not change in the tunnel? 4. The car still drives on rails. If you approach a corner and for whatever reason don't want to take the ideal line through it, the game fights you for control of the car. The best example of this is if you come up to a chicane that you might want to drive over. Not possible. The closer you get to the chicane, the more the computer fights you to turn into it. The most appalling example of this is if you've selected to pit-in but decide to go around again without cancelling the pit-in signal. The game just will not let you go back out on to the main track, but sucks you into the pit wall in an effort to get you into the pits. This was one of the major shortfalls of F1GP, and one which I really hoped wouldn't make it into F1GP2. 5. The other cars seem to have the same suicidal British-driver instinct as they did in F1GP. If you park in a corner, they don't try to go around you, they just pile up behind you and bring the race to a halt waiting for you to move on. The prime example is the first chicane in Hockenheim. If you've got a good line into the corner, no matter where you're placed, all the other cars try to drive through you and force you out of the corner. Other examples: if you tangle wheels, the other driver just will not turn away from you. If you're tangling on the left and try to turn right, the other car follows you. This is doubly bad if you're approaching a corner as the computer car heads off on it's seemingly predetermined route, irrespective of the fact that it's tangled with you, and you, the gamer, *always* come off worse. 6. No parade lap? For an 'accurate' sim, this is a glaring ommision. 7. Graphics glitches: lots. Usually the scenery on the outside of a right-handed corner. It's especially bad on the corner onto the long straight at Adelaide, and on the 180 at the end of the long straight in Magny-Cours. Cars-in-walls shows up really badly if you spin at the Eau-Rouge corner in Spa and look back up the track. 8. What happened to wet-weather racing and wet tyres? I see no mention of them in the manual, cannot select a wet race for the "quickrace" option and see no 'W' tyres on the tyre selection. This was one of the strongest points of F1GP and seems to have disappeared! 9. The cars. Graphically superb. They look like the real cars instead of the generic ones in F1GP. Problem? One minor and one major. The minor problem is that IRL the lead car for each team has orange flashed on it (in this case Schumacher's Benetton should have orange flashes on the front and rear wings). Major problem: They all handle the same. Other than the colour of the***pit surround, they all handle the same. They also all have the same instrument cluster. It would have been nice for such an 'accurate' sim for the cars to handle differently, and for the proper instrument clusters to be in there. Proof that they all handle the same comes if you pick a Pacific car and win a season with it with no fiddling or adjustment of the game-standard settings. The real Pacific cars were so underpowered they never even got a place in the top 10 finishers. -------------------------------------------- It's an excellent game, no doubt about it, but I'm disappointed that there are _so many_ problems with it. Especially considering the amount of time we've been waiting, on the excuse of "more realism and less bugs". Now to the question: does anyone know if there are there plans for a paintkit for the cars so we can update to the current team colours? -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

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> Considering the time we've had to wait, and the endless "we want it > to be as accurate and true-to-life as possible" messages we've had > out of Microprose since March, there's some very concerning problems > with F1GP2. > 1. The damage model is very questionable. Try as I might I cannot cause > the car to flip over as it would IRL. Driving it headlong into a wall > at 100+mph breaks off the nosecone and then I can continue driving. Why? > The car should be a crumpled mess by this point. > Granted various parts of the car fly off it you get hit by another car, > but not in a realistic fashion. If you scrape the wall, the wheels stay > remarkably intact. If you touch someone else's wheel and are flipped up > into the air, when you come down the most damage I've had is a broken > nosecone. IRL, of course, the car would break behind the***pit and > probably catch fire. > 2. Shading - if you go under a bridge, the shadow doesn't darken the >***pit. This wouldn't be so bad if Monaco didn't have a tunnel. In > there, the***pit should darken and the instruments should become > harder to read. > 3. Speaking of Monaco - why does the engine sound not change in the > tunnel? > 4. The car still drives on rails. If you approach a corner and for > whatever reason don't want to take the ideal line through it, the game > fights you for control of the car. The best example of this is if you > come up to a chicane that you might want to drive over. Not possible. > The closer you get to the chicane, the more the computer fights you to > turn into it. The most appalling example of this is if you've selected > to pit-in but decide to go around again without cancelling the pit-in > signal. The game just will not let you go back out on to the main > track, but sucks you into the pit wall in an effort to get you into the > pits. This was one of the major shortfalls of F1GP, and one which I > really hoped wouldn't make it into F1GP2. > 5. The other cars seem to have the same suicidal British-driver > instinct as they did in F1GP. If you park in a corner, they don't try > to go around you, they just pile up behind you and bring the race to a > halt waiting for you to move on. The prime example is the first chicane > in Hockenheim. If you've got a good line into the corner, no matter > where you're placed, all the other cars try to drive through you and > force you out of the corner. Other examples: if you tangle wheels, the > other driver just will not turn away from you. If you're tangling on > the left and try to turn right, the other car follows you. This is > doubly bad if you're approaching a corner as the computer car heads off > on it's seemingly predetermined route, irrespective of the fact that > it's tangled with you, and you, the gamer, *always* come off worse. > 6. No parade lap? For an 'accurate' sim, this is a glaring ommision. > 7. Graphics glitches: lots. Usually the scenery on the outside of a > right-handed corner. It's especially bad on the corner onto the long > straight at Adelaide, and on the 180 at the end of the long straight in > Magny-Cours. Cars-in-walls shows up really badly if you spin at the > Eau-Rouge corner in Spa and look back up the track. > 8. What happened to wet-weather racing and wet tyres? I see no mention > of them in the manual, cannot select a wet race for the "quickrace" > option and see no 'W' tyres on the tyre selection. This was one of the > strongest points of F1GP and seems to have disappeared! > 9. The cars. Graphically superb. They look like the real cars instead > of the generic ones in F1GP. Problem? One minor and one major. The > minor problem is that IRL the lead car for each team has orange flashed > on it (in this case Schumacher's Benetton should have orange flashes on > the front and rear wings). Major problem: They all handle the same. > Other than the colour of the***pit surround, they all handle the > same. They also all have the same instrument cluster. It would have > been nice for such an 'accurate' sim for the cars to handle > differently, and for the proper instrument clusters to be in there. > Proof that they all handle the same comes if you pick a Pacific car and > win a season with it with no fiddling or adjustment of the > game-standard settings. The real Pacific cars were so underpowered they > never even got a place in the top 10 finishers. > -------------------------------------------- > It's an excellent game, no doubt about it, but I'm disappointed > that there are _so many_ problems with it. Especially considering > the amount of time we've been waiting, on the excuse of > "more realism and less bugs". > Now to the question: does anyone know if there are there plans for a > paintkit for the cars so we > can update to the current team colours? > -- > *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** > http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ > ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- > Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. > ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

An excellent assessment of the situation, if one chooses to focus on these matters, however, I'm afraid that you have not discovered how to turn off the steering help if you are reporting that the CPU fights you for control of the car. With the steering help off you have to fight with the CPU to get into a curve, not the other way around. You can turn completely in reverse and drive the wrong direction on the track if the steering help is off. I'd check that in the setup menus if I were you. Otherwise a good list, a bit childish in parts, I mean who gives a shit if there is a shadow over the***pit in the tunnel at Monaco. We need a patch for that??? I think not. JEB in Vegas

>> 2. Shading - if you go under a bridge, the shadow doesn't darken the >>***pit. This wouldn't be so bad if Monaco didn't have a tunnel. In >> there, the***pit should darken and the instruments should become >> harder to read. Actually, they have brightened up the tunnel with alot of lights recently, to help reduce being blinded by the sun when exiting the tunnel, this way, your eyes don't have to adjust as much. Maybe it's not so dark in there? I couldn't tell from the last race, too much rain. Now, if we had RAIN in GP2.....!!!! Craig

[list of complaints deleted] I must agree that the CPU still tries to steer you into a corner even when you're not steering at all. Try to approach a turn and do not steer into this turn. Every single time your car will go into the turn and exit it halfway instead of completely missing it. Annoying to say the least. Marco -- "Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek."

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> > 2. Shading - if you go under a bridge, the shadow doesn't darken the > >***pit. > Getting a bit picky now, aren't we? > > 3. Speaking of Monaco - why does the engine sound not change in the > > tunnel? > Surely it is much more important to be able to hear you opponents? > Changing sounds in the tunnel - while nice - is just ear candy.

For both of the above points: I'm being picky because Microprose delayed the game for so long on grounds of "accuracy" and "technical excellence" etc. So how come they've missed these points given those excuses and the delay in release? I've tried, but it's a greyed-out option when you're playing with a keyboard. And driving with a mouse or joystick is well-near impossible. But even with a joystick and steering help off - if you cruise into a corner slowly, the car will turn in and exit at about half way around the corner (usually opposite the apex) without you needing to touch the steering at all. I still find that they drive into me if I happen to be in their way on the line they want to take. I tried again last night, out-braking one of the cars and taking the inside line. Once I was clearly ahead of him, I turned into the corner and was rammed from the left side-pod as he followed the "computer-preffered" line in the corner. When we both stopped on the side of the track, all the other cars piled up behind without making any effort to steer around the problem or overtake. -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

: : I must agree that the CPU still tries to steer you into a corner even : when you're not steering at all. Try to approach a turn and do not : steer into this turn. Every single time your car will go into the turn : and exit it halfway instead of completely missing it. Annoying to say : the least. : : Marco : : -- : "Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek." turn steering help off in "control method" -- ------- Carlos Ribas President MalSoft http://www.nol.net/~draconis

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> An excellent assessment of the situation, if one chooses to focus > on these matters, however, I'm afraid that you have not discovered > how to turn off the steering help if you are reporting that the CPU > fights you for control of the car. With the steering help off you > have to fight with the CPU to get into a curve, not the other way > around. You can turn completely in reverse and drive the wrong > direction on the track if the steering help is off. I'd check that > in the setup menus if I were you.

The steering help option is greyed out on my setup screen when I have the keyboard selected. It only un-greys when I select a joystick/mouse, and driving with one of these is almost impossible. I'm just pointing out that considering so much hype was put into the "realism factor" and we had to wait so long, that this is a bit of an obvious oversight..... :-) -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

> On the shadow issue, someone has pointed out the fact that there are > lights in the tunnel, and sure enough there are. I did not really > notice them until after I read that post. Loading up Monaco and > drving through the tunnel and looking up revealed the lights. So consequently that raises the question: why is there a shadow in the tunnel if it's so well lit then? -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

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> > 4. The car still drives on rails. If you approach a corner and for > > whatever reason don't want to take the ideal line through it, the game > > fights you for control of the car. The best example of this is if you > > come up to a chicane that you might want to drive over. Not possible. > > The closer you get to the chicane, the more the computer fights you to > > turn into it. The most appalling example of this is if you've selected > > to pit-in but decide to go around again without cancelling the pit-in > > signal. The game just will not let you go back out on to the main > > track, but sucks you into the pit wall in an effort to get you into the > > pits. This was one of the major shortfalls of F1GP, and one which I > > really hoped wouldn't make it into F1GP2. > An excellent assessment of the situation, if one chooses to focus > on these matters, however, I'm afraid that you have not discovered > how to turn off the steering help if you are reporting that the CPU > fights you for control of the car. With the steering help off you > have to fight with the CPU to get into a curve, not the other way > around. You can turn completely in reverse and drive the wrong > direction on the track if the steering help is off. I'd check that > in the setup menus if I were you. Otherwise a good list, a bit > childish in parts, I mean who gives a shit if there is a shadow over > the***pit in the tunnel at Monaco. We need a patch for that??? > I think not. > JEB in Vegas

Ok, Jeb. would you please tell me (as you are obviously so smart) how is streering help turned off ? I am driving with keyboard so think before you answer. If you know the right answer, I thank you and apologize my tone of voice, but if you don't - in future think very hard before commenting somebodys message. Chris doesn't tell what device he uses to drive his GP2 but maybe your answer will help him too. And by the way Jeb, I found your reply childish too. Maybe somebody does care about some of his views so give him a chance. And for all: give everybody else a chance too, every possible patch for GP2 would be good news and only chance to get them is to keep noice about bugs etc. Greetings Toni . . . . . . . . . .

> Considering the time we've had to wait, and the endless "we want it > to be as accurate and true-to-life as possible" messages we've had > out of Microprose since March, there's some very concerning problems > with F1GP2. <snip> For those interested, I also sent a copy of this posting to Microprose too and if I get any response, I'll post it here. -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

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> For both of the above points: I'm being picky because Microprose delayed > the game for so long on grounds of "accuracy" and "technical excellence" > etc. So how come they've missed these points given those excuses and the > delay in release? > *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** > http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ > ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- > Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. > ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

My advice to you is take the game back and get a refund. It is obvious that this product does not have some important, to you, features, and therefore you are not satisfied with it. Personally, I find that most of your original concerns are valid, and stated so, but some of your concerns are a bit too picky and in the case of steering your broad claim is not factual, it is only if you use a keyboard and therefore you should have made it clear that from a keyboard users point of view there is a problem with steering, not that the game is defective. I also doubt that you would be able to keep the car on the track for any length of time to speak of if you did not have the steering help on when using the keyboard. It is a struggle to keep the car on the tracks with a wheel and pedal arrangement. Not because the driving model is bad, just because the tracks are tough. JEB in Vegas

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> Ok, Jeb. would you please tell me (as you are obviously so smart) how is streering > help turned off ? I am driving with keyboard so think before you answer. If you > know the right answer, I thank you and apologize my tone of voice, but if you > don't - in future think very hard before commenting somebodys message. Chris > doesn't tell what device he uses to drive his GP2 but maybe your answer will help > him too. > And by the way Jeb, I found your reply childish too. Maybe somebody does care > about some of his views so give him a chance. And for all: give everybody else a > chance too, every possible patch for GP2 would be good news and only chance to get > them is to keep noice about bugs etc. > Greetings > Toni > .

It would appear that if you use the keyboard you can NOT turn off steering help. I don't know, I DO NOT USE A KEYBOARD for driving sims. I use a wheel, because when I go and look into a car, any car, or truck for that matter, I see a wheel, and not a keyboard. If you use a keyboard then you should not be posting up a note that states that the sim is faulty because it interferes with your steering as that is what it is designed to do, when using a keyboard. It is not factual, therefore, to conclude that there is a "bug" or "problem" with the steering control. If you use a controller, you CAN turn off the steering help, and should, and there is no problem. In short, the original poster's claim that there is a problem with steering help is not only misleading, as he did not identify the control method that he was using, he made a sweeping claim, and it is also not factual. If you use a control device other than the keyboard you can turn off the steering help, and when you do you will find that the "driving" model, or steering characteristics in GP2 are very well done indeed. On the views issue, I say give the programmers a break. They did not include the soda vending machines in the grandstand area either, but do we need a patch for every nit picky thing that someone thinks should be included in a $49.00 simulation. Again, I think not. JEB in Vegas

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>: >: I must agree that the CPU still tries to steer you into a corner even >: when you're not steering at all. Try to approach a turn and do not >: steer into this turn. Every single time your car will go into the turn >: and exit it halfway instead of completely missing it. Annoying to say >: the least. >: >: Marco >: >: -- >: "Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek." >turn steering help off in "control method"

It IS off! And this kinda thing still happens. Marco -- "Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek."

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>Considering the time we've had to wait, and the endless "we want it >to be as accurate and true-to-life as possible" messages we've had >out of Microprose since March, there's some very concerning problems >with F1GP2. >1. The damage model is very questionable. Try as I might I cannot cause >the car to flip over as it would IRL. Driving it headlong into a wall >at 100+mph breaks off the nosecone and then I can continue driving. Why? >The car should be a crumpled mess by this point. >Granted various parts of the car fly off it you get hit by another car, >but not in a realistic fashion. If you scrape the wall, the wheels stay >remarkably intact. If you touch someone else's wheel and are flipped up >into the air, when you come down the most damage I've had is a broken >nosecone. IRL, of course, the car would break behind the***pit and >probably catch fire. >2. Shading - if you go under a bridge, the shadow doesn't darken the >cockpit. This wouldn't be so bad if Monaco didn't have a tunnel. In >there, the***pit should darken and the instruments should become >harder to read. >3. Speaking of Monaco - why does the engine sound not change in the >tunnel? >4. The car still drives on rails. If you approach a corner and for >whatever reason don't want to take the ideal line through it, the game >fights you for control of the car. The best example of this is if you >come up to a chicane that you might want to drive over. Not possible. >The closer you get to the chicane, the more the computer fights you to >turn into it. The most appalling example of this is if you've selected >to pit-in but decide to go around again without cancelling the pit-in >signal. The game just will not let you go back out on to the main >track, but sucks you into the pit wall in an effort to get you into the >pits. This was one of the major shortfalls of F1GP, and one which I >really hoped wouldn't make it into F1GP2. >5. The other cars seem to have the same suicidal British-driver >instinct as they did in F1GP. If you park in a corner, they don't try >to go around you, they just pile up behind you and bring the race to a >halt waiting for you to move on. The prime example is the first chicane >in Hockenheim. If you've got a good line into the corner, no matter >where you're placed, all the other cars try to drive through you and >force you out of the corner. Other examples: if you tangle wheels, the >other driver just will not turn away from you. If you're tangling on >the left and try to turn right, the other car follows you. This is >doubly bad if you're approaching a corner as the computer car heads off >on it's seemingly predetermined route, irrespective of the fact that >it's tangled with you, and you, the gamer, *always* come off worse. >6. No parade lap? For an 'accurate' sim, this is a glaring ommision. >7. Graphics glitches: lots. Usually the scenery on the outside of a >right-handed corner. It's especially bad on the corner onto the long >straight at Adelaide, and on the 180 at the end of the long straight in >Magny-Cours. Cars-in-walls shows up really badly if you spin at the >Eau-Rouge corner in Spa and look back up the track. >8. What happened to wet-weather racing and wet tyres? I see no mention >of them in the manual, cannot select a wet race for the "quickrace" >option and see no 'W' tyres on the tyre selection. This was one of the >strongest points of F1GP and seems to have disappeared! >9. The cars. Graphically superb. They look like the real cars instead >of the generic ones in F1GP. Problem? One minor and one major. The >minor problem is that IRL the lead car for each team has orange flashed >on it (in this case Schumacher's Benetton should have orange flashes on >the front and rear wings). Major problem: They all handle the same. >Other than the colour of the***pit surround, they all handle the >same. They also all have the same instrument cluster. It would have >been nice for such an 'accurate' sim for the cars to handle >differently, and for the proper instrument clusters to be in there. >Proof that they all handle the same comes if you pick a Pacific car and >win a season with it with no fiddling or adjustment of the >game-standard settings. The real Pacific cars were so underpowered they >never even got a place in the top 10 finishers.

10. Put the gears in Neutral and rev the engine to its highest, it takes a long time before you blow it up. (that is IF it blows) Greetings from Rob, All British F1 drivers fan.

> Considering the time we've had to wait, and the endless "we want it > to be as accurate and true-to-life as possible" messages we've had > out of Microprose since March, there's some very concerning problems > with F1GP2. > 1. The damage model is very questionable. Agreed by everyone. It feels like the arcade model in ICR2 Getting a bit picky now, aren't we? Surely it is much more important to be able to hear you opponents? Changing sounds in the tunnel - while nice - is just ear candy. Disable steering help, and the car handles very realistically IMO. I find they are quite good - they will make room for you in a corner, and not try and push you off the road. 90% of the tangles I've had with other cars have been my fault. Yes, it would be nice These don't really bother me - the graphics are lovely, and the odd glitch is OK by be - I would rather heave them spend their time on more important things. An unforgiveable omission, especially as some of the code already seems to be in the program. The best, most exciting F1 races have been in the wet. Yes. At first I thought they were cartoonish, but I appreciate their beauty now. Agreed - according to MicroProse the player's car always handles like a Williams. If I'm driving a McLaren, I want it to handle like one! It's still a great game - I enjoy it far more than ICR2, but there are some definite improvements that could be made. Unfortunately, I don't think any patches or upgrades will be forthcoming :( Julian _____________________________________________________________________ University of Oxford

Dear Chris, I 100% agree with your post... it's a great game but but but :)... especially point 9... I can drive with Heinz Harald Frentzen Black Sauber car and indeed win a race... Until now he hasn't done that yet... I was also major disapointed that there is absolutely no difference between minor and top teams, not even the Williams' are a bit better then the rest, althought THEY (=microprose) are sponsering Williams. A paintkit and somthing like an disigning room (so you can design your own F1 car, MS has even something to make your own planes so why not make your own F1 car) would be really great. As you might know Ferrari does everything to get their car more streamlined, so it's nothing irreal I'm asking. Anyway I somewhere picked up that there will be an update arround Xmas, supporting a lot off bugfixes, like the damage bug, and also a paintkit and the weather will then work too. Indeed, the parade lap just may not be left out, even driving your car into 'parc ferme' just would finish it off. The Rails really suck, especially if you accidently forget to turn off the pitrequest, last time I got a damn good time if I just did not got sucked into the walls of the pit :(. Oh monaco is great ! and its a pain in the ass that nothing changes if you drive through the tunnel, no lighteffects or no soundchanges. Try this, change the graphics settings to automatic, then drive on monace... do you see the tunnel ??? I didn't, if that isn't a bug then I really don't know, imagine, driving somewhere for the first time (like I did) and expeting a tunnel but you just can't find it :). Another request from me is that the 1996 rules should be included. I really like the 1994 rules, and I'm even wrestingling with the car-setups, but though I think it's a bit a pain in the ass that you can't drive with the 1996 rules. The game did come out in 1996 and not in 1994. The car almost completely changed in comaprison of 1994. And there is also a 107% rule to get slowies from the race. There is only one track that I'm missing, and that is the current Europe Track, Nurnburgring... maybe it would be great to add or remove tracks, maybe even create your own tracks.

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> The steering help option is greyed out on my setup screen when I have > the keyboard selected. It only un-greys when I select a joystick/mouse, > and driving with one of these is almost impossible. > > Otherwise a good list, a bit > > childish in parts, I mean who gives a shit if there is a shadow over > > the***pit in the tunnel at Monaco. We need a patch for that??? > > I think not. > I'm just pointing out that considering so much hype was put into the > "realism factor" and we had to wait so long, that this is a bit of an > obvious oversight..... :-) > -- > *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** > http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ > ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- > Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. > ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

Well, then I would suggest that you should have identified the fact that on "your" setup there is a problem with steering. It is hardly fair, or factual, to be critical of the sim on this point when it is clearly not valid. I use a T2 steering wheel and there is no noticeable problem in the steering area that I can see. Frankly I'd love to have a CPU nudge in the right direction in some of the curves at Brazil and Pacific. On the shadow issue, someone has pointed out the fact that there are lights in the tunnel, and sure enough there are. I did not really notice them until after I read that post. Loading up Monaco and drving through the tunnel and looking up revealed the lights. Again, good list overall. I just don't think it's fair to be unrealistically demanding of a $49.00 piece of game software as though it really mattered in the larger scheme of things. JEB in Vegas

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> By your logic that it's only software and "only" costs $49.00, I guess > you're willing to put up with whatever comes out of the box and think that > it's okay... after all, it's only software. If everyone had that attitude, > I hate to think how hard the current games would be to install and > configure and how crappy they would be to play. Everyone would still be > playing the original Indy 500 sim if people didn't want more. > Have fun, lighten up. > Scott > -- > I have seen the enemy, and it > is my registry...

Damn your right Scott, you are always right. Thanks for putting me straight. JEB in Vegas

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> Go to your control method menu. From there, highlight an unused setting (call > it anything you want). Now you can manipulate things and you can turn steering > help off. > Hope this helps. > Ashraf

Darn, Ashraf...why did ya have to go and tell 'em that. I was starting to really enjoy all of 'em making ***s out of themselves cuz they had not discovered that they can turn off the steering help, even with their keyboard thingies there. And I was NOT gonna tell 'em...hehehehe JEB in Vegas PS ruined all our fun....(Grin)

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> Well, if you drive with the keyboard what do you expect? It is the most > unrealistic method of controlling a car possible. A joystick is not a > patch on a wheel, but it's a damn sight better than keys. > Julian > _____________________________________________________________________ > University of Oxford

Thank you Julian. My sentiments EXACTLY. If one doesn't have the equipment to run the sim the way the designers intended, one should not make claims that the product is defective. That was my only point in the first place. And, further, I'd not lift a finger to help a person who was trying to fly a complex flight sim with a keyboard either. It simply isn't worth it. If one is serious about his or her "games", one finds a way to get the "serious" equipment, or one doesn't go around claiming that the "game" is defective. JEB in Vegas

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> Ok, Jeb. would you please tell me (as you are obviously so smart) how is streering > help turned off ? I am driving with keyboard so think before you answer. If you > know the right answer, I thank you and apologize my tone of voice, but if you > don't - in future think very hard before commenting somebodys message. Chris > doesn't tell what device he uses to drive his GP2 but maybe your answer will help > him too. > And by the way Jeb, I found your reply childish too. Maybe somebody does care > about some of his views so give him a chance. And for all: give everybody else a > chance too, every possible patch for GP2 would be good news and only chance to get > them is to keep noice about bugs etc.

Well, if you drive with the keyboard what do you expect? It is the most unrealistic method of controlling a car possible. A joystick is not a patch on a wheel, but it's a damn sight better than keys. Julian _____________________________________________________________________ University of Oxford

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>I still find that they drive into me if I happen to be in their way on >the line they want to take. I tried again last night, out-braking one of >the cars and taking the inside line. Once I was clearly ahead of him, I >turned into the corner and was rammed from the left side-pod as he >followed the "computer-preffered" line in the corner. When we both >stopped on the side of the track, all the other cars piled up behind >without making any effort to steer around the problem or overtake. >-- > *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** >http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ >---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- > Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. >---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

Are you sure you weren't playing ICR2. The opponents in ICR2 think nothing of ramming you off the road if your anywhere near their preferred line. In GP2 I quite often use the tactic of outbraking my opponent, whereby he changes his approach and I go through (maybe you've been unlucky). As for ICR2 realsim, well, ever had the back-end start to slide out.... the game goes into a "all user response ignored, I'm going to spin" mode. And how about the speed of the graphics? ICR2 runs beautifully on my P150, but where's the detail. All the tracks are like paddocks!! However, I do enjoy both GP2 and ICR2. I like the fact they have differences (otherwise I would only ever race one of them). Bazza

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> Ive seen this posted a couple of times and just thought it about time > to respond. From the perspective of a driver who has a hard time > getting under a 10minute time around MONZA.<VBG> If you block the > leaders long enough , half a lap or so they WILL boot you off. Not > that I mind the flaw but it is a flaw. Yes there are some famous > incidents of drivers knocking each other off the track but lets say if > it happened as much as its happening to me then FISA would require > bumpers.<VBG> > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

Obviously those CC drivers don't know WHO you are...hehe The swine, upstarts, they do it to me too...why the nerve of those silicon slimeballs.... JEB in Vegas (Grin)

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>> Otherwise a good list, a bit >> childish in parts, I mean who gives a shit if there is a shadow over >> the***pit in the tunnel at Monaco. We need a patch for that??? >> I think not. >I'm just pointing out that considering so much hype was put into the >"realism factor" and we had to wait so long, that this is a bit of an >obvious oversight..... :-)

As long as we're talking realism, I want a couple of nice buxom grid girls wearing nothing but the Scuderia Ferrari flag! ;) Well maybe the flag part is not so realistic. Cheers. --John -- ------------------- John (Joao) Silva http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jsilva Seattle, Washington USA.

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> It would appear that if you use the keyboard you can NOT turn off > steering help. > I don't know, I DO NOT USE A KEYBOARD for driving sims. I use a wheel, > because > when I go and look into a car, any car, or truck for that matter, I see > a > wheel, and not a keyboard.

Do you not feel a bit daft sitting in front of a PC with a steering wheel in your hands? :-) I'd still argue this. Why is the game designed to interfere with the keyboard steering. I'm referring to the 'analog' setting on Nascar Racing, where the longer you held the steering key down, the more it turned the steering. Why couldn't this be replicated in GP2? I still classify this as a bug. Anyway, as I've heard, even if you do turn the steering help completely off, and even if you do have a steering wheel, the car will still turn into a corner on it's own and exit at the apex if you leave it unchecked. Perhaps you could confirm or deny this? Travel into a corner at about 80kmh or so without touching the steering and let us know what happens....... Except a mouse or a joystick......In other words you can only turn off steering help if you've forked out for a steering wheel. ......Plus however much you paid for the steering wheel........ Like I keep posting - the game was delayed on ground of technical excellency - and that has turned out to be a bit of a misleading statement as the final game has so many niggly little flaws in it. -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

Well, tell me, JEB, do F1 drivers peer into a computer screen and sit indoors during an f1 race? No?? Then I guess you still aren't as close to the real thing as you think you are. Don't be a dweeb. Not everyone can afford steering devices. Some people either have joysticks, so they can use them with NON-driving sims (imagine that!) or they are using a keyboard until they can afford something else. Is that difficult to comprehend? Wrong. I have a joystick and the option to turn off steering help is also grayed out. Once again you don't have a clue what you are babbling about but are more than willing to slam someone with your made up "facts" anyway. I have no idea if everyone with joysticks has this problem, or just me, but at least one non-keyboard user has the same thing happening. Simulations are supposed to mimic reality as closely as is reasonable. Since the original World Circuit included rain, and real f1 racing cars also drive in the rain (using steering wheels, not keyboards, as I learned today) I don't think it's either a technically difficult or unreasonable request. By your logic that it's only software and "only" costs $49.00, I guess you're willing to put up with whatever comes out of the box and think that it's okay... after all, it's only software. If everyone had that attitude, I hate to think how hard the current games would be to install and configure and how crappy they would be to play. Everyone would still be playing the original Indy 500 sim if people didn't want more. Have fun, lighten up. Scott -- I have seen the enemy, and it is my registry...

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>Subject: Re: *F1GP2 - Moans list and a question. >Date: 31 Jul 1996 01:41:44 GMT >[list of complaints deleted] >>An excellent assessment of the situation, if one chooses to focus >>on these matters, however, I'm afraid that you have not discovered >>how to turn off the steering help if you are reporting that the CPU >>fights you for control of the car. With the steering help off you >>have to fight with the CPU to get into a curve, not the other way >>around. You can turn completely in reverse and drive the wrong >>direction on the track if the steering help is off. I'd check that >>in the setup menus if I were you. Otherwise a good list, a bit >>childish in parts, I mean who gives a shit if there is a shadow over >>the***pit in the tunnel at Monaco. We need a patch for that??? >>I think not. >I must agree that the CPU still tries to steer you into a corner even >when you're not steering at all. Try to approach a turn and do not >steer into this turn. Every single time your car will go into the turn >and exit it halfway instead of completely missing it. Annoying to say >the least. >Marco >-- >"Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek."

Go to your control method menu. From there, highlight an unused setting (call it anything you want). Now you can manipulate things and you can turn steering help off. Hope this helps. Ashraf --- DISCLAIMER: My comments are my own and not necessarily those of my employer OR my service provider. ************************************************************************** Ashraf Ghebranious "If it takes only one person to suppress your religion, then it cant be much of a religion then can it?" - me To find out more about the cult that is Scientology, subscribe to ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY. Dont get me wrong, these people are dangerous! "Jesus woman! I dont give a ***!" Rhett Butler, slightly paraphrased **************************************************************************

Yes the manual is rather dull on this issue isnt it. Just select other device in the controller section and make your choices. I puzzled this one out in 3 hours of wondering if I had made a mistake getting this sim. Glad I stuck to it. Just wish there was more of an effort to BETA TEST manuals. Not a slame against the current Beta Testors but just an observation that maybe inexperienced users (like me<G>) should be included in the test. If I can understand a manual anyone can. Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand >-- >I have seen the enemy, and it >is my registry...

Ive seen this posted a couple of times and just thought it about time to respond. From the perspective of a driver who has a hard time getting under a 10minute time around MONZA.<VBG> If you block the leaders long enough , half a lap or so they WILL boot you off. Not that I mind the flaw but it is a flaw. Yes there are some famous incidents of drivers knocking each other off the track but lets say if it happened as much as its happening to me then FISA would require bumpers.<VBG> Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

>> > 3. Speaking of Monaco - why does the engine sound not change in the >> > tunnel? >> Surely it is much more important to be able to hear you opponents? >> Changing sounds in the tunnel - while nice - is just ear candy. FYI, I have seen many compliants about CPU occupancy.... more sounds take up CPU time which means even less eye candy!!. I too would like to see changes in weather and wet races etc. But can my P100 handle the extra computation? No!. Time to compromise I guess :-( I had a similar problem with my T1 and by altering the dead zone setting in the control method menu I was able to get a better response. (Okay... so I use Steering Assistance!!! my T1 pots have seen better days ok?<gg>.) Wishfull thinking!!<bg>. Are you listening Eurosport? Regards, Ian.

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>>> 2. Shading - if you go under a bridge, the shadow doesn't darken the >>>***pit. This wouldn't be so bad if Monaco didn't have a tunnel. In >>> there, the***pit should darken and the instruments should become >>> harder to read. >Actually, they have brightened up the tunnel with alot of lights recently, to >help reduce being blinded by the sun when exiting the tunnel, this way, your >eyes don't have to adjust as much. Maybe it's not so dark in there? I couldn't >tell from the last race, too much rain. Now, if we had RAIN in GP2.....!!!! >Craig

Just reduce the detail and take the roof off. You don't need any shading now do you! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you believe in the light, its because of obscurity If you believe in happiness, its because of unhappiness If you believe in God, its because of the Devil Father X - Exorcist, church of Notre Dame, Paris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Heck, SH/MP seemed to have little regard to whether anything less than a cray could run all their graphics anyway, so why not through the rain in their too?

[...] [...] >Have fun, lighten up. >Scott >-- >I have seen the enemy, and it >is my registry... I had the same problem with my joystick, but if you choose one of the other control methods (other than keyboard and joystick), and configure your joystick as you wish, you can then adjust everything that was previously grayed out with the default joystick setup. Hope this helps, W.Tymowski

>Ok, Jeb. would you please tell me (as you are obviously so smart) how is streering >help turned off ? I am driving with keyboard so think before you answer. If you >know the right answer, I thank you and apologize my tone of voice, but if you >don't - in future think very hard before commenting somebodys message. Chris >doesn't tell what device he uses to drive his GP2 but maybe your answer will help >him too. Hi, if you really want to try keyboard without steering help check out http://www.utu.fi/~snurmela/gp2util.zip You're not gonna like it though :) There is also gp2util2.zip with track record printer and resetting utilities, same URL. --

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>>: >>: I must agree that the CPU still tries to steer you into a corner even >>: when you're not steering at all. Try to approach a turn and do not >>: steer into this turn. Every single time your car will go into the turn >>: and exit it halfway instead of completely missing it. Annoying to say >>: the least. >>: >>: Marco >>: >>: -- >>: "Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek." >>turn steering help off in "control method" >It IS off! And this kinda thing still happens. >Marco >-- >"Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek."

That's strange, I'm playing with the keyboard, and steering help on, and the CPU doesen't steer me into a corner. I can take what ever line I choose (assuming that I'm not going too fast!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you believe in the light, its because of obscurity If you believe in happiness, its because of unhappiness If you believe in God, its because of the Devil Father X - Exorcist, church of Notre Dame, Paris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess I am new to this group, but I cannot understand why nodoby is moaning about the lack of the advertised weather changes !!? Where are the wet tyres gone? Quitely deleted I feel..... Also, where the hell is the network options, which were also promised in early magazine blueprints? Null modem is too restricting Not bad omissions for a game two years in the making. - apart from that, its brilliant. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Southend, Essex UK -----------------------------------------------------------------

: >> > 3. Speaking of Monaco - why does the engine sound not change in the : >> > tunnel? : FYI, I have seen many compliants about CPU occupancy.... more sounds : take up CPU time which means even less eye candy!!. actually judging from the gp2log.txt where is goes through allocations for sounds, this would be simple and not take too much cpu time. simply have them record a sound (or process the current one with echo/reverb/delay), and when you are in the tunnel, swap which sound to play. the only complication is finding out when you are in a tunnel... without knowing how the 3d engine works (perhaps there is a flag), i'd recommend a height check above the car. ceiling close to car = echo'd sound effects. : I too would like to see changes in weather and wet races etc. But can : my P100 handle the extra computation? No!. Time to compromise I : guess :-( i bet it could handle the sound but the weather would be tough. : > > 4. The car still drives on rails. : >> Disable steering help, and the car handles very realistically IMO. : : I had a similar problem with my T1 and by altering the dead zone : setting in the control method menu I was able to get a better : response. (Okay... so I use Steering Assistance!!! my T1 pots have : seen better days ok?<gg>.) e-mail thrustmaster... they are brilliant in service. http://www.thrustmaster.com -- ------- Carlos Ribas President MalSoft http://www.nol.net/~draconis

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> >> Otherwise a good list, a bit > >> childish in parts, I mean who gives a shit if there is a shadow over > >> the***pit in the tunnel at Monaco. We need a patch for that??? > >> I think not. > >I'm just pointing out that considering so much hype was put into the > >"realism factor" and we had to wait so long, that this is a bit of an > >obvious oversight..... :-) > As long as we're talking realism, I want a couple of nice > buxom grid girls wearing nothing but the Scuderia Ferrari flag!

Good point! Where are the groupies? The champagne? The luxury-appointed hotel suite for the winner. I don't know. Talk about lacking :-) -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

> the only complication is finding out when you are in a tunnel... without > knowing how the 3d engine works (perhaps there is a flag), i'd recommend > a height check above the car. How about the road texture/colour under the car. The tunnel texture/colour is only used in Monaco. The only other place where there's an obvious colour change is at Silverstone, and that's not the same as the tunnel one. Simple. (if you have a good programming background, an inside knowledge of the 3D engine, a decompiler and a shitload of spare time :-) -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

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> > Ok, Jeb. would you please tell me (as you are obviously so smart) how is streering > > help turned off ? I am driving with keyboard so think before you answer. If you > > know the right answer, I thank you and apologize my tone of voice, but if you > > don't - in future think very hard before commenting somebodys message. Chris > > doesn't tell what device he uses to drive his GP2 but maybe your answer will help > > him too. > > And by the way Jeb, I found your reply childish too. Maybe somebody does care > > about some of his views so give him a chance. And for all: give everybody else a > > chance too, every possible patch for GP2 would be good news and only chance to get > > them is to keep noice about bugs etc. > > Greetings > > Toni > > . > It would appear that if you use the keyboard you can NOT turn off > steering help. > I don't know, I DO NOT USE A KEYBOARD for driving sims. I use a wheel, > because > when I go and look into a car, any car, or truck for that matter, I see > a > wheel, and not a keyboard. > If you use a keyboard then you should not be posting up a note that > states that > the sim is faulty because it interferes with your steering as that is > what it > is designed to do, when using a keyboard. It is not factual, therefore, > to > conclude that there is a "bug" or "problem" with the steering control. > If you use a controller, you CAN turn off the steering help, and should, > and > there is no problem. In short, the original poster's claim that there is > a > problem with steering help is not only misleading, as he did not > identify > the control method that he was using, he made a sweeping claim, and it > is also > not factual. > If you use a control device other than the keyboard you can turn off the > steering help, and when you do you will find that the "driving" model, > or > steering characteristics in GP2 are very well done indeed. > On the views issue, I say give the programmers a break. They did not > include > the soda vending machines in the grandstand area either, but do we need > a > patch for every nit picky thing that someone thinks should be included > in > a $49.00 simulation. Again, I think not. > JEB in Vegas

I agree with the patches comment, but not with the steering help. If you create a new control set, switch to joystick, turn off steering help, switch back to keyboard, save that control set and then use it, you should be able to change steering lock, turn off help and also opposite lock help. Personally I wouldn't under keyboard control, it needs all the help it can get. Mike

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>> Ok, Jeb. would you please tell me (as you are obviously so smart) how is streering >> help turned off ? I am driving with keyboard so think before you answer. If you >> know the right answer, I thank you and apologize my tone of voice, but if you >> don't - in future think very hard before commenting somebodys message. Chris >> doesn't tell what device he uses to drive his GP2 but maybe your answer will help >> him too. >> And by the way Jeb, I found your reply childish too. Maybe somebody does care >> about some of his views so give him a chance. And for all: give everybody else a >> chance too, every possible patch for GP2 would be good news and only chance to get >> them is to keep noice about bugs etc. >> Greetings >> Toni >> . >It would appear that if you use the keyboard you can NOT turn off >steering help. >I don't know, I DO NOT USE A KEYBOARD for driving sims. I use a wheel, >because >when I go and look into a car, any car, or truck for that matter, I see >a >wheel, and not a keyboard. >If you use a keyboard then you should not be posting up a note that >states that >the sim is faulty because it interferes with your steering as that is >what it >is designed to do, when using a keyboard. It is not factual, therefore, >to >conclude that there is a "bug" or "problem" with the steering control. >If you use a controller, you CAN turn off the steering help, and should, >and >there is no problem. In short, the original poster's claim that there is >a >problem with steering help is not only misleading, as he did not >identify >the control method that he was using, he made a sweeping claim, and it >is also >not factual. >If you use a control device other than the keyboard you can turn off the >steering help, and when you do you will find that the "driving" model, >or >steering characteristics in GP2 are very well done indeed. >On the views issue, I say give the programmers a break. They did not >include >the soda vending machines in the grandstand area either, but do we need >a >patch for every nit picky thing that someone thinks should be included >in >a $49.00 simulation. Again, I think not. >JEB in Vegas

YYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good repley Although, as a "keyboarder" myself, I can find nothing wrong with the steering. Steering help is noticable, but I can take whatever line I choose through a corner, the CPU does not inhibit the car's handling at all. If he doesent like GP2 with the keyboard, then he should try to drive the cars in ICR/ICR2 (and I do meen try). Keyboard control in those games makes you really appereicte steering help ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you believe in the light, its because of obscurity If you believe in happiness, its because of unhappiness If you believe in God, its because of the Devil Father X - Exorcist, church of Notre Dame, Paris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Go to your control method menu. From there, highlight an unused setting (call > > it anything you want). Now you can manipulate things and you can turn steering

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> > help off. > > Hope this helps. > > Ashraf > Darn, Ashraf...why did ya have to go and tell 'em that. > I was starting to really enjoy all of 'em making ***s > out of themselves cuz they had not discovered that they > can turn off the steering help, even with their keyboard > thingies there. And I was NOT gonna tell 'em...hehehehe

You CAN do this... but when you put it back to joystick, it puts steering help back on, at least in my case. Scott -- I have seen the enemy, and it is my registry...

>Anyway, as I've heard, even if you do turn the >steering help completely off, and even if you do have a steering wheel, >the car will still turn into a corner on it's own and exit at the apex >if you leave it unchecked. Perhaps you could confirm or deny this? That's completely untrue. If you approach a corner without turning the joystick, the car goes happily in the grass straight ahead. Nicola Salmoria

>The steering help option is greyed out on my setup screen when I have >the keyboard selected. It only un-greys when I select a joystick/mouse, >and driving with one of these is almost impossible. Well! Using a mouse is literally impossible, since the game doesn't support it. ;-) But a joystick is quite usable, and actually much more fun. My best lap at Monza using a joystick with all helps off is 1:22:358, which isn't bad after all. If you find it impossible to handle the car using a joystick, your car setup is probably WAY wrong! If you setup your car with steering help on, you will not notice your errors because the computer compensates for them. You can then drive a very oversteering car, and sure, obtain faster laps with steering help on, but in real life you would never be able to keep that car on track. BTW, there is no way you could possibly turn off steering help while using the keyboard and be able to handle the car. You would spin out at the first corner. Nicola Salmoria

> As for ICR2 realsim, well, ever had the back-end start to slide > out.... the game goes into a "all user response ignored, I'm going to > spin" mode. And how about the speed of the graphics? ICR2 runs > beautifully on my P150, but where's the detail. All the tracks are > like paddocks!! Mark Blundell had an interesting comment in this week's Autosport stating that "when the Indycar starts to go, there's not much you can do about it" I'm paraphrasing but he should know... Jeff

Blundell was probably speaking about cornering on ovals, especially the fast ones. F1 types generally have a big problem in their first serious slide through a corner (see both Mansell and Blundell in their first oval performances). When the back end starts to come around, the innate response from all other forms of driving is to apply some opposite lock to catch it. This generally results in hitting the wall head first. An experienced Indy driver knows when all is lost and, rather than trying to correct the spin, will assume the crash position.

> If he doesent like GP2 with the keyboard, then he should try to drive the cars in ICR/ICR2 (and > I do meen try). Keyboard control in those games makes you really appereicte steering help This is true. I did play ICR2 for a while, and it rates amongst the least driveable driving sims I've played. Compared to that benchmark, GP2 is leaps, bounds, chasms, and galaxies ahead. It still bugs me though :-) -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

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> >Anyway, as I've heard, even if you do turn the > >steering help completely off, and even if you do have a steering wheel, > >the car will still turn into a corner on it's own and exit at the apex > >if you leave it unchecked. Perhaps you could confirm or deny this? > That's completely untrue. > If you approach a corner without turning the joystick, the car goes > happily in the grass straight ahead.

Oh. Sorry. Excuse me whilst I go and retreat to a dark corner for a moment :-* -- *** Pass or Pull Over! ** NO AD BREAKS IN TELEVISED F1 RACES *** http://www.division.co.uk/~chrisl/ ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..---------------------------- Standard disclaimer: The views expressed here are entirely my own. ---------------------------..oooOOOooo..----------------------------

Why would anyone want to steer with a keyboard??? Even a 10 dollar joystick has got to be an option. Gene

I have a question about GP2. I have a 120mhz PENTIUM 16MB RAM and a 6X CD, ATI MACH 64 (VGA) video card. Can I run GP2 with what I currently have???? Thanks Brandon Lutz

> I have a question about GP2. I have a 120mhz PENTIUM 16MB RAM and a 6X > CD, ATI MACH 64 (VGA) video card. Can I run GP2 with what I currently > have???? Thanks Brandon Lutz Yep. However, you can forget about full detail in SVGA. My system is identical, only my processor is a P150 overclocked to 166, and I get 17 fps with no sky or hill textures, and nothing but cars and track in the mirrors. At Monaco, this drops to about 12 fps unless I turn off a few of the buildings. With this game, anything below 15 fps can be quite annoying. You'll probably get about 13 fps at similar detail settings, and probably 15 if you overclock to 133.

> I have a question about GP2. I have a 120mhz PENTIUM 16MB RAM and a 6X > CD, ATI MACH 64 (VGA) video card. Can I run GP2 with what I currently > have???? Thanks Brandon Lutz Yes, you can run it. I have an almost identical system (4x cd-rom rather than 6x) and it runs well for me. You may find the graphics have to be toned down a lot for SVGA play in order to get a good (20+ fps) frame rate. I play in VGA with most graphics on right now. Paul

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> Blundell was probably speaking about cornering on ovals, especially the > fast ones. F1 types generally have a big problem in their first serious > slide through a corner (see both Mansell and Blundell in their first > oval performances). When the back end starts to come around, the innate > response from all other forms of driving is to apply some opposite lock > to catch it. This generally results in hitting the wall head first. An > experienced Indy driver knows when all is lost and, rather than trying > to correct the spin, will assume the crash position.

Glen, You have a good point, but I think these are bad examples. Blundell's brakes failed when he crashed in Rio and Mansell didn't hit the wall head first; he backed into it (if we're talking about the same crash at his initial Phoenix practice in '93). Paul