GP2 SPEED - 220mph - how?

In the Hockenheim GP yesterday I raced the track myself beforehand. With fiddling around I managed to just push 200mph, but was then disheartened to hear Hill was doing 220+ in Berger's slipstream. So, what's the fastest anyone has been up to in F1GP2? And how different are perferomance/setup rules this year from '94? -- Tim Chown | GD Review http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview

I wonder how many GP2 owners were practesing Hockenhiem Saturday/Sunday :) I got upto 205mp[h & thats with the rear wing at 1 Rob

The only way to run at Hockenheim is front and real wings on 1... :-))) And the car DAMN low to get some sort of grip in the stadium... Yves

330 at the German GP... Still a bit slower than most cars, but I think that's due to my ugly exits from the chicanes :-) Yves

> In the Hockenheim GP yesterday I raced the track myself beforehand. > With fiddling around I managed to just push 200mph, but was then > disheartened to hear Hill was doing 220+ in Berger's slipstream. > So, what's the fastest anyone has been up to in F1GP2? And how > different are perferomance/setup rules this year from '94? I have got up to 212mph in Hill's slipstream at Monza on the straight before the final curve. The cars in 1994 should probably be a bit faster, as they had 3.5 litre engines, where as now they have 3 litres. Julian _____________________________________________________________________ University of Oxford

I think that 330 km/h is the max. speed of the damn motors we have in the 1994 championship... or am I wrong here ? Michael

:In the Hockenheim GP yesterday I raced the track myself beforehand. :With fiddling around I managed to just push 200mph, but was then :disheartened to hear Hill was doing 220+ in Berger's slipstream. : :So, what's the fastest anyone has been up to in F1GP2? And how :different are perferomance/setup rules this year from '94? At Hockenheim, you should be running with a rear wing of 1, and that will max you out at 205mph at the end of all three straights, with good chicane exits. Similarly, you'll top out twice at Monza too with minimal rear wing. I feel 205mph is terminal velocity for these cars, except, of course, when slipstreaming. Ken

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> >Subject: GP2 SPEED - 220mph - how? > >Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:55:25 +0100 > >In the Hockenheim GP yesterday I raced the track myself beforehand. > >With fiddling around I managed to just push 200mph, but was then > >disheartened to hear Hill was doing 220+ in Berger's slipstream. > >So, what's the fastest anyone has been up to in F1GP2? And how > >different are perferomance/setup rules this year from '94? > I pushed it to 333km a hour in practise on Hochenheim. Yet those chicanes > really slowed the overall times down because you have to brake a lot to get > into a good speed for the tighter turns and then you need to accelerate > again. I am only at rookie mode (except damage is turned on), but I could > only manage 1.50 in qualifying. I need to frig around a lot with the setups > if I want to break 1.48. And the top time is 1.43!!!

I can reach 206 mph during practice and 207mph during qualifying at Hockenheim. During one race there I got a great tow down the main straight from a two-a*** draft and saw 212 mph. I think it would've gone faster, but I was at the rev limiter. ----------------------------------------------------------- Mike Wisner Convex Division, HP Data Management Group 3000 Waterview Parkway (214) 497-4012

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>Subject: GP2 SPEED - 220mph - how? >Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:55:25 +0100 >In the Hockenheim GP yesterday I raced the track myself beforehand. >With fiddling around I managed to just push 200mph, but was then >disheartened to hear Hill was doing 220+ in Berger's slipstream. >So, what's the fastest anyone has been up to in F1GP2? And how >different are perferomance/setup rules this year from '94?

I pushed it to 333km a hour in practise on Hochenheim. Yet those chicanes really slowed the overall times down because you have to brake a lot to get into a good speed for the tighter turns and then you need to accelerate again. I am only at rookie mode (except damage is turned on), but I could only manage 1.50 in qualifying. I need to frig around a lot with the setups if I want to break 1.48. And the top time is 1.43!!! Ashraf --- DISCLAIMER: My comments are my own and not necessarily those of my employer OR my service provider. ************************************************************************** Ashraf Ghebranious "If it takes only one person to suppress your religion, then it cant be much of a religion then can it?" - me To find out more about the cult that is Scientology, subscribe to ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY. Dont get me wrong, these people are dangerous! "Jesus woman! I dont give a ***!" Rhett Butler, slightly paraphrased **************************************************************************

>I pushed it to 333km a hour in practise on Hochenheim. Yet those chicanes >really slowed the overall times down because you have to brake a lot to get >into a good speed for the tighter turns and then you need to accelerate >again. I am only at rookie mode (except damage is turned on), but I could only >manage 1.50 in qualifying. I need to frig around a lot with the setups if I >want to break 1.48. And the top time is 1.43!!! I have just completed a 1 hour test to fine tune the car for Hockenheim and I still can't break in to the 1.44s my best to this date 1:45.285. I need a better setup. Anyone?? Cheers Martin

: I can reach 206 mph during practice and 207mph during qualifying : at Hockenheim. During one race there I got a great tow down the : main straight from a two-a*** draft and saw 212 mph. I think : it would've gone faster, but I was at the rev limiter. Get them gears fixed. I have the same top speeds, but can easily hit 225 or so in the slipstream. I'll try and get it on replay and send you it. BTW, I got two replays of some HUGE air at Germany. I'm still trying to get used to the width of my car!! ;)

Dont try to go the speeed of light. Obviously if you cant get through the chicanes well, balance your car better so that you can get a top speed of 200 or 190, 195. Be able to get through the chicanes at the suggested gear. Thats all I know what to do. I've only been to Hockenheim very few times myself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

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| Henrik Monti ** ** * ** ****** ****** ***** ***** ** % | IVGA#2542 ** ** * ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** % | Int. Tool Racing ** ** *** ** * ** ***** ***** ***** % | "You dont have to swim faster than the % | Shark, just faster than the friend your with. %

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> > In the Hockenheim GP yesterday I raced the track myself beforehand. > > With fiddling around I managed to just push 200mph, but was then > > disheartened to hear Hill was doing 220+ in Berger's slipstream. > > So, what's the fastest anyone has been up to in F1GP2? And how > > different are perferomance/setup rules this year from '94? > I have got up to 212mph in Hill's slipstream at Monza on the straight > before the final curve. The cars in 1994 should probably be a bit faster, > as they had 3.5 litre engines, where as now they have 3 litres. > Julian > ___________________________________________________

__________________ > University of Oxford Glad somebody else is on this top speed thing. I can't get above 208 at Hockenheim unless I slipstream. Is this right? Do the pro-AI cars go faster? Mike

weig.netsurf.de> writes Actually the best time seen so far is 1:41.xxx by Georg Naujoks of CompuServe. This is also with no driving aids _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

>I pushed it to 333km a hour in practise on Hochenheim. Yet those chicanes >really slowed the overall times down because you have to brake a lot to get >into a good speed for the tighter turns and then you need to accelerate >again. I am only at rookie mode (except damage is turned on), but I could only >manage 1.50 in qualifying. I need to frig around a lot with the setups if I >want to break 1.48. And the top time is 1.43!!! Wrong. The best time is 1.42.471 with no driveing help (Only marks on road on). Take a look at Frits Lucas homepage. Greetings --- Get up, dive down, no problem.

>Wrong. The best time is 1.42.471 with no driveing help (Only marks on >road on). Take a look at Frits Lucas homepage. But that _is_ with driving help...... Let's see some laps without _any_ form of help. After all, if you can manage a 1:42, you really shouldn't need the line displayed :) Richard

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> >Subject: GP2 SPEED - 220mph - how? > >Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:55:25 +0100 > >In the Hockenheim GP yesterday I raced the track myself beforehand. > >With fiddling around I managed to just push 200mph, but was then > >disheartened to hear Hill was doing 220+ in Berger's slipstream. > >So, what's the fastest anyone has been up to in F1GP2? And how > >different are perferomance/setup rules this year from '94? > I pushed it to 333km a hour in practise on Hochenheim. Yet those chicanes > really slowed the overall times down because you have to brake a lot to get > into a good speed for the tighter turns and then you need to accelerate > again. I am only at rookie mode (except damage is turned on), but I could only > manage 1.50 in qualifying. I need to frig around a lot with the setups if I > want to break 1.48. And the top time is 1.43!!! > I get about the same speed on mine actually i think yours is faster, i

think i get about 331kph, the trick is to get as much downforce as possible without adjusting your wings, ruduce the ride hight all round keeping back higher than the front. If the plank wears on the ground use packers so the suspension doesn't move down as much. My top time in practice is about 1.46, i use keyboard so i can't better that for now but you've got a joystick or better a wheel u can take 2 or more seconds off. If u want u can have my setup just let me know. Signing off Homer Simpson

>>Wrong. The best time is 1.42.471 with no driveing help (Only marks on >>road on). Take a look at Frits Lucas homepage. >But that _is_ with driving help...... Not as such. If you look at any track you will see *** lines. This is not a feature of GP2 therefor making you would substitute them with "best line" markings. It's really almost the same with steering help. You don't get same feedback through the wheel as you would in a real F1 car. This makes it harder to judge when your over the limit. The only feedback is visual. F ex when you come in to a spin. You first notice it visualy where as in a real F1 car you would feel the front wheels working your steering wheel. This is real bad news for us who likes oversteering cars. Cheers Martin

> I wonder how many GP2 owners were practesing Hockenhiem Saturday/Sunday > :) > I got upto 205mp[h & thats with the rear wing at 1 I posted some questions to Microprose and the guy answering my questions said that there are differences on the cars. F ex driving a Williams you should get better results. I tried to go faster then 2:00.00 at Spa with a Simtek. No go. Did a 2:05.xxx. Switched to Footwork 1:58.115. I did get the Simtek to run att 333 km/h (208mph) Cheers Martin

I spoke to the lead tester of the development team, and he confirmed that there is _NO_ difference between the cars. Whatever car you choose, you always have the performance of a Williams. I've set a few hotlaps which are equivalent to anything anyone else has run, and I'm using a Pacific. Georg Naujoks over on CompuServe drove a Simtek to 1:12.7xx around Adelaide. Try that with a Williams.... :) Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

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>>>Wrong. The best time is 1.42.471 with no driveing help (Only marks on >>>road on). Take a look at Frits Lucas homepage. >>But that _is_ with driving help...... >Not as such. If you look at any track you will see *** lines. This >is not a feature of GP2 therefor making you would substitute them with >"best line" markings.

Admittedly, its the least important of the aids, but it is still one of them (and I suppose I can't really complain as I made good use of the *** marks in Indycar <g>) Totally disagree with this. You will find very few (if any) real racing drivers who will opt for oversteer, let alone the amounts that seem to be used by most people with steering help. It is _way_ too dangerous as it is almost impossible to correct an oversteer induced spin (whilst pretty easy to correct a bit of understeer). An aid that helps driving with oversteer is completely unrealistic IMHO. Actually, as I get used to the tracks (especially Silverstone), I _do_ seem to be able to sense when I get into the start of a spin. Maybe it's just using visual clues, but it seems to be more a case of _feeling_ that I am overdoing it <g>. Richard

For now... :) eric

You can't reach 220mph. that would be 354 kmh. That's impossible. I reached 334 kmh (207mph) without slipstreaming and 343 with slipstreaming. But since then I never reached this speed again. Perhaps my carsetup has to much downforce. But less then RearWing 1 is not possible. It could be that a big frontwing disturbs the airflow to rearwing and reduces it's effectivity. I don't know exactly. Any ideas from other racing freaks ? My best time is know a 1.42.306 but I think that it's possible to get into the 1.41.xxx. My splittimes are 30.600 1.04.6xx. But I have been faster at those splittimes but I ofter crash by pushing to hard. Topspeed 206mhp 332kmh The computercars can drive faster on the straights 337kmh (209mph). Due to slipstreaming the computer can reach 220. A little bit unfair in my opinion. Andi

>Actually, as I get used to the tracks (especially Silverstone), I _do_ >seem to be able to sense when I get into the start of a spin. Maybe >it's just using visual clues, but it seems to be more a case of >_feeling_ that I am overdoing it <g>. >Richard I agree. When you`ve driven huge numbers of laps (and had huge numbers of spins<vbg>) then you learn what the car should and shouldn`t look like going into a corner. If it don`t look right, better do somethin` quick! Mark _________________________________ "..every lap I think `Oh bollocks! This is dreadful..`" Damon Hill __________________________________

>>Wrong. The best time is 1.42.471 with no driveing help (Only marks on >>road on). Take a look at Frits Lucas homepage. >But that _is_ with driving help...... Its more with looking help ;-) The 3D looking effect on a flat monitor is not very good. The line helps a little bit. Real drivers also have some helping of the road, cause of differences of brightness, structure, etc. Iam now driveing at hungary without the line. Cheers Thomas --- Get up, dive down, no problem.

>>Wrong. The best time is 1.42.471 with no driveing help (Only marks on >>road on). Take a look at Frits Lucas homepage. >Actually the best time seen so far is 1:41.xxx by Georg Naujoks of >CompuServe. This is also with no driving aids Driveing the 1.42.4, the first split was over half a second away from my best first-split time. So I know, I could manage a 1.41.xxx, but I am tired of driveing a few hundred laps for the ultimate lap. I only drive a cours a few days, and switch to another. On the other hand, its hard work to switch from FLCS/TQS to T2 and my Apatche needs a run every day ;-) Cheers Thomas --- Get up, dive down, no problem.

Michael Schumacher Gilles Villeneuve Nigel Mansell Ayrton Senna Jean Alesi Shall I continue....? ;) Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

On Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:25:42 +0100, John Wallace

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>>Totally disagree with this. You will find very few (if any) real >>racing drivers who will opt for oversteer >Michael Schumacher >Gilles Villeneuve >Nigel Mansell >Ayrton Senna >Jean Alesi >Shall I continue....? ;)

Oops, have I been talking through the wrong orifice again <g> Seriously though, have I really been harbouring such a major misconception? I had always thought that because oversteer is so sudden and difficult to correct that drivers favoured understeer (at least during races). I'ld raise the fact that you didn't include Hill in the list if I wasn't scared that it would start another 50 Damon posts <vbg> Drat, now look what I've gone and done..... Richard

Notice how all the drivers in that list are incredibly famous, incredibly quick and incredibly brave (and all nutters!!). MILD oversteer can be quicker because it means you can brake later and still get the car to turn quickly into the corner, without understeering off into the gravel, especially true at tight corners. By doing so the car gets pointed in the right direction quicker meaning as long as you know when the back is going to step out when you accelerate out of the corner you can catch the slide and power out quicker than the guy with understeer. I would hazard a guess that most of the lesser known drivers tend towards understeer, and that is why they are lesser known. Hill and Prost are perhaps the exception to this, in that they are both very smooth drivers which to me indicates that they perhaps favour understeer (Hill less so I would guess). Basically you need enormous balls to drive with oversteer, but as you see from that list, there are rewards for doing so.

weig.netsurf.de> writes Well, the CompuServe lap was just lowered to a 1:41.2xx if that gives you a little more incentive to park the Apache and take the F1 car for a spin :) _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

Drivers have very different styles, and each has his own preference. When I say "oversteer", we're not talking "hanging the tail end out over the kerbs" (well, perhaps Mansell was like that!), but _just_ a little oversteer which is predictable. Rather like a pro golfer has a swing which is either a hook or a draw, so a driver will have over or understeer. If you have a golf swing which is totally neutral (straight), the ball could either hook or slice, and not knowing is a disaster. So drivers tend to develop a style of either understeer or oversteer so they know how the car will react. That's why Alesi took to Schumacher's Benneton (oversteering), but Berger was very nervous in it. Had you asked me to list understeering cars I could easily say :- Alain Prost Niki Lauda Martin Brundle Damon Hill Gerhard Berger Any oval driver! (oversteer is BAAAD news on an oval) With Prost and Lauda, it's a pretty illustrious list too. See what works best for you and drive it. There, I put him above to keep everyone happy :) Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \._____\ [link lost in import: /~harmon/simnews]

On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 19:27:58 +0100, John Wallace

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>Drivers have very different styles, and each has his own preference. >When I say "oversteer", we're not talking "hanging the tail end out over >the kerbs" (well, perhaps Mansell was like that!), but _just_ a little >oversteer which is predictable. Rather like a pro golfer has a swing >which is either a hook or a draw, so a driver will have over or >understeer. If you have a golf swing which is totally neutral >(straight), the ball could either hook or slice, and not knowing is a >disaster. So drivers tend to develop a style of either understeer or >oversteer so they know how the car will react. That's why Alesi took to >Schumacher's Benneton (oversteering), but Berger was very nervous in it.

Thanks for the explanation (also thanks to Tony for his). Although I don't really agree with the golf analogy, debating that would be way off topic! Getting back to what started this off. Does anyone have any views on whether GP2's steering help enables drivers to use _mild_ oversteer safely or it is actually a case of allowing drivers to throw the car into a corner knowing that the PC will correct things for you? From the set-ups I've seen, I rather think it is the latter. Richard

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>>I pushed it to 333km a hour in practise on Hochenheim. Yet those chicanes >>really slowed the overall times down because you have to brake a lot to get >>into a good speed for the tighter turns and then you need to accelerate >>again. I am only at rookie mode (except damage is turned on), but I could only >>manage 1.50 in qualifying. I need to frig around a lot with the setups if I >>want to break 1.48. And the top time is 1.43!!! >I have just completed a 1 hour test to fine tune the car for >Hockenheim and I still can't break in to the 1.44s my best to this >date 1:45.285. I need a better setup. Anyone?? >Cheers >Martin

Hiya m8. I can do a 1:43.151 with this setup. Cya

begin 644 hock!.csi ` end end

The latter - watching an a replay with SA scares the pants off me! Cries of "You can't do that!!!!!" and waiting for the crunch - which never happens. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

>Getting back to what started this off. Does anyone have any views on >whether GP2's steering help enables drivers to use _mild_ oversteer >safely or it is actually a case of allowing drivers to throw the car >into a corner knowing that the PC will correct things for you? From >the set-ups I've seen, I rather think it is the latter. I never use any aids, I get more satifaction knowing I can drive the thing un-aided, even I in the middle of an amateur championship and finding it tough.

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>>>>Wrong. The best time is 1.42.471 with no driveing help (Only marks on >>>>road on). Take a look at Frits Lucas homepage. >>>But that _is_ with driving help...... >>It's really almost the same with steering help. >>You don't get same feedback through the wheel as you would in a real >>F1 car. This makes it harder to judge when your over the limit. The >>only feedback is visual. F ex when you come in to a spin. You first >>notice it visualy where as in a real F1 car you would feel the front >>wheels working your steering wheel. This is real bad news for us who >>likes oversteering cars. >Totally disagree with this. You will find very few (if any) real >racing drivers who will opt for oversteer, let alone the amounts that >seem to be used by most people with steering help. It is _way_ too >dangerous as it is almost impossible to correct an oversteer induced >spin (whilst pretty easy to correct a bit of understeer). An aid that >helps driving with oversteer is completely unrealistic IMHO.

Both Jean Alesi and Micheal Schumacher likes it. In the game the best bet is to go for understeer, I agree, but this doesn't change the fact that if you, like me, like oversteer its though to get the right kind of feed-back. Steering aid is not very good to use, accept if you steer by keyboard. You can't get the right lines through a chicane f ex. I seems that you are always on the limit with steering aid. Cheers Martin