I disagree. His points are mostly valid, he is too stong
on his conclusions, however. Most of us are not going
to purposely try to push a car through the corner, just
a enjoying the sim by trying to be realistic thing, I'd
say. But he has discovered several points that are not
up to the hard test of reality.
I think he is kidding himself if he thinks that ICR2 is
any different, overall. It has just as many little
warts.
Bottom line, I say...SO WHAT!!!
GP2 is better looking, sound better, more fun, more
exciting, more competitive (AI), more accessable to
more people, and is one hell of a product.
I have both and I like both. I'm not going to
return ICR2 because GP2 is out, nor would I return
GP2 because you can do some clearly unrealistic things
and "get away with it".
These are both fine sims, each has strengths and
weaknesses.
JEB in Vegas
Is GP2 too arcade-like? Damage and braking debated
A poster called GP2 an arcade game, citing minimal damage, quick pit repairs and AI braking too late. Others agreed damage was weak but pointed out that real F1 cars brake from over 300 km/h in under 100 metres, citing Martin Brundle and live observation. Most still rated the handling highly.
Automated summary.
Idiot.
Quoted text (28 lines)
>I thought this was a Simulation!! >Yet you can crash into cars,bounce off walls and barriers,and continue >on racing as though NOTHING happened,COMPLETELY undamaged (NO! I do not >have the damage turned off!).....SIMULATION??...Bulls...! >At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker >into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane >speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked >easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!! >Since when should you be able to push the car in front around a >corner,and STILL have NO DAMAGE...Not even a bent wing???... >SIMULATION???...Bulls...! >But I guess I can look at all those lovely graphics,while I'm playing my >latest ARDCADE GAME...if I had a Pro200 (only have P120)... >It belongs in the local pin-ball parlour,and Microprose should be >commended for producing a ground breaking ARCADE RACING GAME for the >Kids.(of course,that's what they intended from the start,coz the younger >kids is where all the money is,so it has to be arcadish,so they can >drive the ***y thing) >By comparison,ICR2 is an *** RACING SIMULATION... > ----------- >Yeah!!!...I do have a BAD taste in my mouth!!...I really wanted an F1 >simulation,and (silly me),expected microprose to better ICR2...given the >***y time they have had,and the benefit of being second,and being able >to work off the competition!!!!! >Well done PAPYRUS!...yours is streets ahead,as a SIMULATION... >AND IT RUNS BEAUTIFULLY ON MY P120. >rgs >John.I thought this was a Simulation!!
Yet you can crash into cars,bounce off walls and barriers,and continue
on racing as though NOTHING happened,COMPLETELY undamaged (NO! I do not
have the damage turned off!).....SIMULATION??...Bulls...!
At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker
into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane
speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked
easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!!
Since when should you be able to push the car in front around a
corner,and STILL have NO DAMAGE...Not even a bent wing???...
SIMULATION???...Bulls...!
But I guess I can look at all those lovely graphics,while I'm playing my
latest ARDCADE GAME...if I had a Pro200 (only have P120)...
It belongs in the local pin-ball parlour,and Microprose should be
commended for producing a ground breaking ARCADE RACING GAME for the
Kids.(of course,that's what they intended from the start,coz the younger
kids is where all the money is,so it has to be arcadish,so they can
drive the ***y thing)
By comparison,ICR2 is an *** RACING SIMULATION...
-----------
Yeah!!!...I do have a BAD taste in my mouth!!...I really wanted an F1
simulation,and (silly me),expected microprose to better ICR2...given the
***y time they have had,and the benefit of being second,and being able
to work off the competition!!!!!
Well done PAPYRUS!...yours is streets ahead,as a SIMULATION...
AND IT RUNS BEAUTIFULLY ON MY P120.
rgs
John.
Quoted text (41 lines)
> Idiot. > >I thought this was a Simulation!! > >Yet you can crash into cars,bounce off walls and barriers,and continue > >on racing as though NOTHING happened,COMPLETELY undamaged (NO! I do not > >have the damage turned off!).....SIMULATION??...Bulls...! > >At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker > >into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane > >speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked > >easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!! > >Since when should you be able to push the car in front around a > >corner,and STILL have NO DAMAGE...Not even a bent wing???... > >SIMULATION???...Bulls...! > >But I guess I can look at all those lovely graphics,while I'm playing my > >latest ARDCADE GAME...if I had a Pro200 (only have P120)... > >It belongs in the local pin-ball parlour,and Microprose should be > >commended for producing a ground breaking ARCADE RACING GAME for the > >Kids.(of course,that's what they intended from the start,coz the younger > >kids is where all the money is,so it has to be arcadish,so they can > >drive the ***y thing) > >By comparison,ICR2 is an *** RACING SIMULATION... > > ----------- > >Yeah!!!...I do have a BAD taste in my mouth!!...I really wanted an F1 > >simulation,and (silly me),expected microprose to better ICR2...given the > >***y time they have had,and the benefit of being second,and being able > >to work off the competition!!!!! > >Well done PAPYRUS!...yours is streets ahead,as a SIMULATION... > >AND IT RUNS BEAUTIFULLY ON MY P120. > >rgs > >John.I have to say I like GP2 better than ICR2, but I agree that it has some ugly flaws.
If you crash and loose a wheel you can pit and come out with a perfect car in 8 seconds.
And the car takes way to much damage before anything is broken.
On the other hand, the car handling model is very pleasing when playing without
steering help and opposite lock help. Hopefully a patch will come out soon correcting
the damage aspect on this game.
Torgeir
Quoted text (20 lines)
> <VBG> ya beat me to this post as I was watching the GP and thinking of > this thread.<G> Unreal 4 g's in the braking zone, almost glad that > they cant simulate the g's yet. Well maybe that would be cool, nah it > most definitly would be cool. Matter of fact if GP 2 doesnt come out > with a patch simulating g's then it sucks.<G> > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand > >> > >At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker > >> > >into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane > >> > >speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked > >> > >easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!! > >Just watched the German GP and they were braking from 205 mph to 65 mph > >in about 70-80 meters... > >The other points made were valid. > >JeffQuoted text (8 lines)
>I thought this was a Simulation!! >Yet you can crash into cars,bounce off walls and barriers,and continue >on racing as though NOTHING happened,COMPLETELY undamaged (NO! I do not >have the damage turned off!).....SIMULATION??...Bulls...! >Since when should you be able to push the car in front around a >corner,and STILL have NO DAMAGE...Not even a bent wing???... >SIMULATION???...Bulls...! >By comparison,ICR2 is an *** RACING SIMULATION...> > >At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker
> > >into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane
> > >speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked
> > >easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!!
Just watched the German GP and they were braking from 205 mph to 65 mph
in about 70-80 meters...
The other points made were valid.
Jeff
<VBG> ya beat me to this post as I was watching the GP and thinking of
this thread.<G> Unreal 4 g's in the braking zone, almost glad that
they cant simulate the g's yet. Well maybe that would be cool, nah it
most definitly would be cool. Matter of fact if GP 2 doesnt come out
with a patch simulating g's then it sucks.<G>
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Quoted text (8 lines)
>> > >At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker >> > >into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane >> > >speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked >> > >easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!! >Just watched the German GP and they were braking from 205 mph to 65 mph >in about 70-80 meters... >The other points made were valid. >Jeff>>I thought this was a Simulation!!
>>Yet you can crash into cars,bounce off walls and barriers,and continue
>>on racing as though NOTHING happened,COMPLETELY undamaged (NO! I do not
>>have the damage turned off!).....SIMULATION??...Bulls...!
Try doing that at ACE level and you will see the difference.
> >At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker
> >into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane
> >speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked
> >easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!!
According to Hill in an interview recently where he was explaining
the F1 physics he said a F1 car would go for 200->0 in 100 yards.
Seems damn hard to me, but those cars have brakes and then some.
--
Tim Chown | GD Review http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview
I think it is a ***y good game. For the very least, we are driving
F1!!
Actually, if you guys don't like your cars being fixed in 8 secs, then
you are more than entitles to retire. Just park at one side of the
track, and someone will tow your car away!! :>
Jeff
All of you whined:
Ok guys, GP2 is a game. If you wanted a simulation that is on par
with real life, expect to pay tens of thousands, or hundreds of
thousands of dollars. Expect to have a custom hardware system
designed specifically for you to run the simulation.
What I am trying to say is this. Gp2 is a game. It conceeds this
fact by having a price tag of $49.99 or whatever it is. Personally, I
enjoy the game, there are some flaws, but I do like the fact that
Microprose has allowed players to continue racing when normal damage
would have put a real life F1 car out. If you think that you really
broke your car, then stop. (Good suggestion who-ever you were).
Someone also said that the highest level (Pro) I think, the damage was
much easier to come by... Could someone verify that? Perhaps see if
it is easier to damage your car in Pro level, than say Rookie level?
-Kevin
>>At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker
>>into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane
>>speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked
>>easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!!
Sitting at the hairpin during the Canadian GP, I was looking across at
the cars coming in to the turn. I noticed that they wear hitting the
brakes at the 3rd marker. I told my friend F1GP is totally unrealistic
because we were able to brake at about 100 meters(we figured the
markers were placed at 50 meter intervals) . As it turned out, those
signs were placed at 25 meter intervals....that makes their braking
mark at about 75 meters! 190+ to 50 mph in 75 meters. Stunning!
<snip>
I couldn't resist jumping on to this one. You might ask Mr. Martin
Brundle what his opinion was during last weekend in Germany. While
qualifying in Hockenheim for the Sunday's grand prix he told the
reporters how unreal his feeling was when he started to break 70
meters (that's seven-zero, and also less than 100 yards) before the
chicane from a speed of 330 km/h (that is 200+ mph) and conveniently
took the chicane and carried on with his lap (first chicane of the
track). Jordan isn't even the best Formula 1 car around.
Dear Sir, these are Formula 1 brakes, not Indycar brakes! Maybe you
should check your setup.
Greetings,
Pekka Heino
"Flyin'Finn"
Quoted text (8 lines)
>> >At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker >> >into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane >> >speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked >> >easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!! >According to Hill in an interview recently where he was explaining >the F1 physics he said a F1 car would go for 200->0 in 100 yards. >Seems damn hard to me, but those cars have brakes and then some.That's okay! I can't wait to see your car setups on the 'net! :)
Kyle Stevens
Quoted text (12 lines)
> >>At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker > >>into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from 200mph+,down to chicane > >>speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen one outbraked > >>easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!! > Sitting at the hairpin during the Canadian GP, I was looking across at > the cars coming in to the turn. I noticed that they wear hitting the > brakes at the 3rd marker. I told my friend F1GP is totally unrealistic > because we were able to brake at about 100 meters(we figured the > markers were placed at 50 meter intervals) . As it turned out, those > signs were placed at 25 meter intervals....that makes their braking > mark at about 75 meters! 190+ to 50 mph in 75 meters. Stunning!> >At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd marker
Why do you think real F1 teams spends over $20,000 each race on brakes
alone this year?
JJ> > >At Monza the A1 outbrakes me as I'm slamming them on,at the 100yd
JJ> marker > > >into the first chicane...NEVER seen a F1,go from
JJ> 200mph+,down to chicane > > >speed,within a 100yds...let alone seen
JJ> one outbraked > > >easily!!!!...REDICULOUS!!!
If you've never seen one do this, I wonder if you've seen the things "in
the flesh"? Watching them at Silverstone at the end of the Hanger
Straight as they brake for Stowe this seems sensible, they seemed to
brake at the 50m marker!
Their stopping power is what amazes all drivers testing cars for the
first time apparently - an F3 driver rapidly handles the extra
horsepower and the gain in power:weight ratios on things like
accelaration but learning new (apparently ludicrous) braking points
takes time. We are talking cars weighing a hell of a lot less, and using
carbon discs, if you have an Indycar perspective!
I remember an Autosport interview with one driver, Jan Magnussen or
David Coulthard I think, who said that the difference between F1 and F3
cars braking was of the same sort of order as that between a racing
saloon car and an F3 or Formula Ford car. So, if you're a sim-racer
only, try an ICR2 trip around Watkins Glen (say) and then do the same in
a Nascar. In the latter you probably brake for the first turn at, or
just before, the concrete wall becomes armco - and for the chicaine
(Turns 5 & 6?) you probably brake when the first red marker appears.
Surely you brake a LOT later than this in ICR2? Well.....extrapolate
that further - Indycar brakes are limited to iron discs I believe and
they are a lot heavier than F1 cars aren't they - so probably they brake
in a fashion similar to F3 cars (or worse).....
JJ> Why do you think real F1 teams spends over $20,000 each race on
JJ> brakes alone this year?
Don't know if that figure is right, but carbon discs and this other
"cutting edge" technology, etc doesn't come cheap!
Cheers!
---
* RM 1.3 U0414 * Are the noises in my head bothering you?
I never raced below ACE level, but from all the posts here I would
say that the damage degree doesn't change. I hit the wall exitting
turn 11 (the fast left hander before the second chicane) in Hungary,
at 90+ mph. All that happens is my left front wing is in the air. No
flat tire, no cut, nothing. So I guess the damage is constant
throughout the "difficulty" levels.
Dave.
--
David Kadlcak http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak
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Quoted text (10 lines)
>>According to Hill in an interview recently where he was explaining >>the F1 physics he said a F1 car would go for 200->0 in 100 yards. >>Seems damn hard to me, but those cars have brakes and then some. >Not sure this has been mentioned (or how irrelevant!), but I've been told that >by just getting off the gas, Indycars (and presumably F1 cars) get about a G of >aerodynamic braking from 200+ mph! I guess I should be able to figure out this >one. Let's see, 700hp=385000 lb-ft/s. At 200 mph, this converts to 1300 >lb-force. If at terminal-V, drop that power to zero and you have, in effect, >that 1300 lbs in aero braking. If the car weighs 1300 lbs, that's a G. >Sorry for the random meanderings...I never race below ACE - Phew my heads sooo big :)
