What driving method U guys have to drive GP2?

I loved f1gp with keyboard and now Im running gp2 with keyboard and its great...I wont change to joystic because I like manual gears and with joystic theyre virtually impossible to get right....but Ive been thinking of purchasing a wheel and pedal combo in near future. But anyway Id just like to know what control method U f1gp and GP2 hotshots R using? ...and some comments would be appreciated too. thx... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Ville Kopu~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ViK at IRC, #f1 & #gp2 http://koti.kolumbus.fi/~vkopu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Second is first of loserS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>I loved f1gp with keyboard and now Im running gp2 with keyboard and >its great...I wont change to joystic because I like manual gears and >with joystic theyre virtually impossible to get right....but Ive >been thinking of purchasing a wheel and pedal combo in near future. >But anyway Id just like to know what control method U f1gp and GP2 >hotshots R using? ...and some comments would be appreciated too. I sure am no hotshot, but anyway: I've been quite happy with my Gravis Firebird stick, it's relatively cheap, has throttle control lever and 17 programmable keys and buttons (sending separate strings for key-down and key-release, or any of the four joy1/joy2 fire buttons). The keys give full access to all views and whatever you can do from keyboard (the stick plugs between your machine and keyboard, in addition to the joystick connector). The feel of the stick is not exactly wonderful, even with the 6-step sensitivity controls for each axis, as the movement arc is quite short. But still it's just great with ICR/Nascar/GP1/GP2 (or just about any sim, racing or flight), you never need to reach for the keyboard anymore. The price is about 250 FIM or less (check PC-Superstore for this).

> = > = > >I loved f1gp with keyboard and now I=B4m running gp2 with keyboard and > >it=B4s great...I won=B4t change to joystic because I like manual gears a= nd > >with joystic they=B4re virtually impossible to get right....but I=B4ve > >been thinking of purchasing a wheel and pedal combo in near future. > = > >But anyway I=B4d just like to know what control method U f1gp and GP2 > >hotshots R using? ...and some comments would be appreciated too. > = Moi! I'll drive with keyboard too, sure it lock brakes a lot but it doesn't = bother me. Tried joystick-keybord combo (few diffirent ones) but it = didn't work for me. The braking/gas pedal should be handled with analog = device but try to do that with your left hand and steer with your right = - disaster ! Maybe I'll try some (T2) steering wheel thing soon, at the moment I'm = still competitive with keys and winning some races in Semi Pro level but = when moving up ? Who knows. Greetings Toni

If anyone finds GP2 in the US today, please post and let me know where you purchased it. Thanks N2KARTN

I use joystick (Mach II by "CH Products") which is very accurate and works much better than the keyboard or mouse..... I think that a T2 would be better...

> = > I loved f1gp with keyboard and now I=B4m running gp2 with keyboard and > it=B4s great...I won=B4t change to joystic because I like manual gears an= d > with joystic they=B4re virtually impossible to get right....but I=B4ve > been thinking of purchasing a wheel and pedal combo in near future. > = Gravis Analog Pro joystick is very good & cheap. Assign one button for = gear up, one for gear down. No problem with shifting, much better = overall than keyboard (IMO)... Pekka

Virtually all F1GP1 hotshots use(d) keyboard if I'm right. "Gravity doesn't exist; the Earth sucks!"

You guys have got to try wheel pedal. I used to do Nascar with keys but it i just not the same as the real thing. T2 is cheap and bound to get cheaper as we near the force feedback era. You can make a wheel Fairly cheap if you have a little bit of mechanical ability. The pedals are a bit more difficult. I am using a wheel that I made and while it is not pretty it works alot better than my old T1. I figure the wheel cost about $40.00 US to make and it uses a much higher quality pot than the T1, which makes a big difference. I am getting ready to build my pedals with some ideas given to me by others who have allready done it but it looks to be a little more involved than the wheel.

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> > I'm not knocking the keyboard or joystick users, just pointing out > > that it is CLEARLY unrealistic to drive an auto sim that way, and > > therefore, I'm NOT impressed by times posted using those controls. > > Just my $ 0.02, now that you've opened "that can of worms"...hehehe > > JEB in Vegas > I only have my joystick :( While I would love to get a wheel, I just > don't have the cash. However, lumping joystick users in with the > keyboarders is unfair IMO. The response from the analogue controls of a > joystick is far more realistic than the keyboard. > BTW, why is a joystick faster than a wheel? They are both analogue. > Julian > _____________________________________________________________________ > University of Oxford

I really don't want to get into it over this, BUT, clearly a race car is driven with a wheel device. There are different types of wheels, but all wheels nonetheless. The joystick places the hand in a different position and it is clearly not the position that the hands are placed in on a wheel. The palms down position on a wheel is different than the palm (singular) vertical on a joystick. I think/feel that one has more precise control with one hand on a joystick than one has with two hands, palms down on a wheel. I would suggest that it's a brain hand thing, basically. In any case a race car uses a wheel. Aircraft often use joysticks. I prefer not to mix the two. Just a matter of personal taste. I do not fly any flight sims with the wheel. On the issue of lumping keyboard and joysticks together I just feel that if you are going to "play" or "simulate" a car racing thing, it is more interesting to do so with the simulated control(s) that match the actual. So, I, simply MY opinion, and NOT any case for fact, just am not impressed with times posted by keyboard and joystick users. Cars don't use 'em, so I'm not interested in those times, because I know I drive faster with a joystick as opposed to my T2 as well. Just a matter of taste, nothing more. JEB in Vegas

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> I'm not knocking the keyboard or joystick users, just pointing out > that it is CLEARLY unrealistic to drive an auto sim that way, and > therefore, I'm NOT impressed by times posted using those controls. > Just my $ 0.02, now that you've opened "that can of worms"...hehehe > JEB in Vegas

I only have my joystick :( While I would love to get a wheel, I just don't have the cash. However, lumping joystick users in with the keyboarders is unfair IMO. The response from the analogue controls of a joystick is far more realistic than the keyboard. BTW, why is a joystick faster than a wheel? They are both analogue. Julian _____________________________________________________________________ University of Oxford

>But anyway Id just like to know what control method U f1gp and GP2 >hotshots R using? ThrustMaster T2. Keyboard & Joysticks certainly appear to give nominally 'faster circuit times' in my observation, but at a price, and that price (= % fun & suspension of disbelief) is relative and dependent upon the perception of each *individual* player. Speaking subjectively from a personal perspective, I find driving with the Thrustmaster T2 is just plain *more fun* and more challenging (IMO) to use. The 'suspension of disbelief" factor is higher. Using the keyboard is easier, and more satisfying for the ego when posting lap times comes around <G>, but the extra assistance given and it's digitally switched (on/off) limitations just detracts from the overall sim experience for *me*. GP2 supports the T2 better than any driving sim I've experienced to date, especially in the braking department. Ordinarily with the T2 the linear pressure of a simple spring for tension mechanism reduces the peripheral sense input naturally given in a real world braking situation by the expotentially increasing pressure of the brake pedal against our foot. With GP2 the allowance of range adjustment of sensitivity of this device lessens the impact of that unnatural feel upon our peripheral senses to some degree. I appreciate that inclusion in this sim. I used to use a CH Flightstick, the spring tension on which allowed precise input and was very smooth. F1GP was certainly very enjoyable using this method and high lap times achievable, although after having used the T2, I couldn't go back to either a non-analogue control method or the joystick. BTW the T2 isn't the proverbial 'brand new toy', and I've had plenty of time to adjudicate on it's pros and cons. If your budget will extend, give it a try...you might even like it. PS: I've made a couple of minor adjustments to mine such as shimming up the actual steering wheel with spacers to reduce play, silicon grease to keep the action smooth etc. It works on a bungee system, and with use, (ie: once 'run in') the bungees reduce to a consistant tension & feel. It ain't perfect, but then what is?...but it is affordable. It nicely fills the gap between the joystick and top end (top $$$$) driving control systems. Hope this has been of interest. Regards, --- Cogito Ergo Sum --- * * Fidonet: (temporarily unavailable) * Keiron Rado, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia *

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> = > = > >But anyway I=B4d just like to know what control method U f1gp and GP2 > >hotshots R using? > = > ThrustMaster T2. > = > >...and some comments would be appreciated too. > = > Keyboard & Joysticks certainly appear to give nominally 'faster circuit= > times' in my observation, but at a price, and that price (=3D % fun & > suspension of disbelief) is relative and dependent upon the perception > of each *individual* player. > = > Speaking subjectively from a personal perspective, I find driving with > the Thrustmaster T2 is just plain *more fun* and more challenging (IMO)= > to use. The 'suspension of disbelief" factor is higher. > = > Using the keyboard is easier, and more satisfying for the ego when > posting lap times comes around <G>, but the extra assistance given and > it's digitally switched (on/off) limitations just detracts from the > overall sim experience for *me*. > = > GP2 supports the T2 better than any driving sim I've experienced to > date, especially in the braking department. Ordinarily with the T2 the > linear pressure of a simple spring for tension mechanism reduces the > peripheral sense input naturally given in a real world braking situatio=

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> by the expotentially increasing pressure of the brake pedal against our= > foot. With GP2 the allowance of range adjustment of sensitivity of this= > device lessens the impact of that unnatural feel upon our peripheral > senses to some degree. I appreciate that inclusion in this sim. > = > I used to use a CH Flightstick, the spring tension on which allowed > precise input and was very smooth. F1GP was certainly very enjoyable > using this method and high lap times achievable, although after having > used the T2, I couldn't go back to either a non-analogue control method= > or the joystick. > = > BTW the T2 isn't the proverbial 'brand new toy', and I've had plenty of= > time to adjudicate on it's pros and cons. If your budget will extend, > give it a try...you might even like it. > = > PS: I've made a couple of minor adjustments to mine such as shimming up= > the actual steering wheel with spacers to reduce play, silicon grease t=

o

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> keep the action smooth etc. It works on a bungee system, and with use, > (ie: once 'run in') the bungees reduce to a consistant tension & feel. > = > It ain't perfect, but then what is?...but it is affordable. > It nicely fills the gap between the joystick and top end (top $$$$) > driving control systems. > = > Hope this has been of interest. > = > Regards, > = > --- Cogito Ergo Sum --- * > * Fidonet: (temporarily unavailable) * > Keiron Rado, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia *

Boy am I glad that you are the one who "started this"...hehehe Driving with the keyboard or a standard type joystick is DEfinately faster, lap times performancewise. It brings up a point. I, personally, would not be inclined to compare my times with a keyboard or joystick driver. I would, however, be interested in = comparing times with a T2 or other "wheel" driver. The difference as you mentioned has to do with "simulation" and suspension of disbelief. = I'm not knocking the keyboard or joystick users, just pointing out that it is CLEARLY unrealistic to drive an auto sim that way, and therefore, I'm NOT impressed by times posted using those controls. Just my $ 0.02, now that you've opened "that can of worms"...hehehe JEB in Vegas

>> If anyone finds GP2 in the US today, please post and let me know where >> you purchased it. >> Thanks >> N2KARTNi bought at the viewmont mall in scranton Pa Available in Upstate SC, lots of copies (this is NASCAR country)

: GP2 supports the T2 better than any driving sim I've experienced to : date, especially in the braking department. Ordinarily with the T2 the : linear pressure of a simple spring for tension mechanism reduces the : peripheral sense input naturally given in a real world braking situation : by the expotentially increasing pressure of the brake pedal against our : foot. With GP2 the allowance of range adjustment of sensitivity of this : device lessens the impact of that unnatural feel upon our peripheral : senses to some degree. I appreciate that inclusion in this sim. Care to share your *.con file with it. Since these files are so small I think it is okay to post them here in r.a.s. (they are smaller than most messages here, so don't start a flame war on this folks). I am very interested in seeing how other have setup their T1/2's for GP2. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>Boy am I glad that you are the one who "started this"...hehehe >Driving with the keyboard or a standard type joystick is DEfinately >faster, lap times performancewise. It brings up a point. >I, personally, would not be inclined to compare my times with a >keyboard or joystick driver. I would, however, be interested in = >comparing times with a T2 or other "wheel" driver. The difference >as you mentioned has to do with "simulation" and suspension of >disbelief. = >I'm not knocking the keyboard or joystick users, just pointing out >that it is CLEARLY unrealistic to drive an auto sim that way, and >therefore, I'm NOT impressed by times posted using those controls. >Just my $ 0.02, now that you've opened "that can of worms"...hehehe >JEB in Vegas

I agree w/you. I'm sure a lot of keyboard users will complain about _____(fill in your own complaint) Another thing that a lot of folks seem to be missing, is that most of the hot lap replays I've seen so far, it looks like the drivers are using steering help. Steering help alone should disqualify you from "Real HotLap Competition" or something to that effect. Using steering help is the most unrealistic setting in the game. I propose that whoever runs hotlap competitions, find a way to distinguish those of us that prefer to do our driving "unassisted"

Hi Mike, Here are two. One which I use myself (TSW.CON) and also one which Marc (SRN-USA) sent me. He got it from a GP2 event, where Alessandro Zanardi drove the car at the US500 in Michigan. He set the controller up to feel like his old F1 car, so you can try that - a touch more realism. I was going to include it with Sim News in August, but what the heck :) Cheers! John [ Section: 1/1 File: tsw.con Encoder: Turnpike Version 1.11 ] begin 644 tsw.con MOJ$]A0(````````````````````````````````````&`1D`%#(,!P$>!P$4 :`!`R#0P`5%-7`%5S960`="`Q`````(8&D3T` ` end end sum -r/size 36284/124 section (from "begin" to "end") sum -r/size 39324/71 entire input file [ Section: 1/1 File: zenardi.con Encoder: Turnpike Version 1.11 ] begin 644 zenardi.con :`!`R#0P`6F%N87)D:2!&,0`Q`````+<&EY$` ` end end sum -r/size 32544/128 section (from "begin" to "end") sum -r/size 20752/71 entire input file _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

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> > I'm not knocking the keyboard or joystick users, just pointing out > > that it is CLEARLY unrealistic to drive an auto sim that way, and > > therefore, I'm NOT impressed by times posted using those controls. > > Just my $ 0.02, now that you've opened "that can of worms"...hehehe > > JEB in Vegas > I only have my joystick :( While I would love to get a wheel, I just > don't have the cash. However, lumping joystick users in with the > keyboarders is unfair IMO. The response from the analogue controls of a > joystick is far more realistic than the keyboard. > BTW, why is a joystick faster than a wheel? They are both analogue. > Julian > _____________________________________________________________________ > University of Oxford

Whaaaaaa cry baby!! In racing the guys with the most money, effort, and brains. Do much better than the people who don't put as much in to it. So to all you keyboarders buy a wheel and pedals or make your own and shut up! And for all you guys that want a seprate class for you keyborders. Their all ready is one it is called SKILL LEVEL 0!!! DROP THE RAG LETS RACE Duane

I use the keyboard as I have no other option. As for steering help I wish I could turn it off but when I use the keyboard option in the control menu I can't seem to turn it off, it is 'greyed out'. How can I get rid of it? Regards Dave -- ("'\-/'").___..--''"-._ ( 0_ 0 ) -. ( ).-.__.) *** Kitty mmeeeeeoooowwwwwww (_Y_.)' ._ ) ._ . -..-' Cheers _..--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Dave Roberts (().-'' (().' ((!.-' [link lost in import: /~darob]

I use keys Yes they suck. I havn't a joystick or a wheel, but am saving for a wheel. with keys in F1GP1 it was more than possible to get respectible lap times as your wheels didn't lock up under braking or wheelspin under acceleration, which are the two major problems for key users in F1GP2. With keys your brake and accelerator pedal are like light switches, either on or off, which makes the car impossible to drive without the F7 help on and still very hard with it on. 3 things i have noticed also, 1. In qualifying, the session ends exactly when the time is up. This is not what ACTUALLY happens at GP's. As long as you (read they) pass the start/finish line merely seconds before the end of the session (indicated by the checkered flag) that lap will be included. In GP2, it doesn't matter where you are , once it says qualifying over, thats it (annoying if you were on a really good lap) 2. If we submit lap times using the Hot Lap thingy, who is to say that you not slipstreaming on that lap. 3. Has anyone found the manual full of everything but what you really want to know. ie on the car damage image in the***pit, what are the two strips that glow down the middle of the car every now and then, the plank? the undertray? not in the manual. Also other things are either missing or just too hard to find. The game however is THE BEST game i have played EVER. Will be much better if i can ever afford that wheel! If you are thinking of getting it, stop hurting yourself and go out and get it.

Rycx)Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:59:08 GMT writes: :>>Care to share your *.con file with it. Since these files are so small I :>>think it is okay to post them here in r.a.s. (they are smaller than most :>>messages here, so don't start a flame war on this folks). I am very :>>interested in seeing how other have setup their T1/2's for GP2. :> :>See on your CD Rom of GP2. You will found a t2.con file which will :>solve your problems. I use mu Thrustmaster x-axes for steering, fire button for gears and the WCSII for throttle and breaks. This works like a charm for me. I'm buying a T2 tommorow though (payday) :) Cheers Christo ------------------------------------------------------- Univ of Pretoria | WWW : http://hagar.up.ac.za South Africa | -------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 27 Jul 1996 14:01:38 -0700, Duane Morehead

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>> > I'm not knocking the keyboard or joystick users, just pointing out >> > that it is CLEARLY unrealistic to drive an auto sim that way, and >> > therefore, I'm NOT impressed by times posted using those controls. >> > Just my $ 0.02, now that you've opened "that can of worms"...hehehe >> > JEB in Vegas >> I only have my joystick :( While I would love to get a wheel, I just >> don't have the cash. However, lumping joystick users in with the >> keyboarders is unfair IMO. The response from the analogue controls of a >> joystick is far more realistic than the keyboard. >> BTW, why is a joystick faster than a wheel? They are both analogue. >> Julian >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> University of Oxford >Whaaaaaa cry baby!! > In racing the guys with the most money, effort, and brains. Do much >better than the people who don't put as much in to it. So to all you >keyboarders buy a wheel and pedals or make your own and shut up! And >for all you guys that want a seprate class for you keyborders. Their >all ready is one it is called SKILL LEVEL 0!!! >DROP THE RAG LETS RACE >Duane

OH Stuff It...

>I use the keyboard as I have no other option. As for steering help I >wish I could turn it off but when I use the keyboard option in the >control menu I can't seem to turn it off, it is 'greyed out'. >How can I get rid of it? Dave, At an intuitive guess, and with apology for pointing out the obvious, I'd say you can't! Think about it. Keyboard is switched on/off (digital) input. Not exactly offering finesse in steering now is it? If you didn't have steering help ON, then it would be the equivilent of going full lock to full lock, with every alternating key input, or alternatively in large angular changes, which would be a function of the time the key was kept depressed & implementation of the keyboard repeat function in the game. (someone else may care to elaborate here) In this mode (steering help - OFF) if it were an option, the car would be uncontrollable. Thus steering help off isn't an option with the keyboard as your steering device. Regards, --- Cogito Ergo Sum --- * * Fidonet: (temporarily unavailable) * Keiron Rado, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia *

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>>I use the keyboard as I have no other option. As for steering help I >>wish I could turn it off but when I use the keyboard option in the >>control menu I can't seem to turn it off, it is 'greyed out'. >>How can I get rid of it? >At an intuitive guess, and with apology for pointing out the obvious, >I'd say you can't! >Think about it. >Keyboard is switched on/off (digital) input. Not exactly offering >finesse in steering now is it? >If you didn't have steering help ON, then it would be the equivilent of >going full lock to full lock, with every alternating key input, or >alternatively in large angular changes, which would be a function of the >time the key was kept depressed & implementation of the keyboard repeat >function in the game. (someone else may care to elaborate here) >In this mode (steering help - OFF) if it were an option, the car would >be uncontrollable. >Thus steering help off isn't an option with the keyboard as your >steering device.

If you really want to try keyboard steering with no steering lock, check http://www.utu.fi/~snurmela/gp2utils.html But believe me, it's not worth it :) BTW, it just occurred to me a few days ago that I've got a brake pedal controller right at home: an old volume pedal in my synthesizer stack. It's pivoted in the middle so it's not really like a true pedal, and the maximum resistance (electrical, that is) is less than the 100k used in game controllers, but it was so easy to rig up that I decided to try. I just bought 2 15-pin D-connectors (male and female) and made a short cable that plugs between the computer and the joystick. All pins were connected directly from male to female, except for the robbing of +5v signal from pin 9 and feeding it through a 6.3 mm jack to pin 11 ( joystick 2's x-axis) in the female d-connector (the pin 11 was left unconnected in the male connector). So now I just put my joystick on this extension cable and the volume pedal to the 6.3 mm connector, and voila: the stick provides steering (stick1), clutch (stick 1 y), throttle (stick2 y, my Firebird has a throttle lever at the side of stick) and the pedal gives brake. Analog braking makes really a huge difference. So, check your household for old volume controllers :) You might find them real cheap from some second-hand music shop. They usually have very reliable pots.

[snipped] As much as I disagree with all the postings complaining about the inability to switch off the steering help, while playing with the keyboard, I would like to point something out. In REVS, G. Crammond's F3 simulator for the BBC and C64, there was no intrusive steering help, in fact you could say there was no help at all. Steering with the keyboard worked by holding the key down, the longer it was held the more angle. If you let go of the direction key the steering would centre quickly. Obviously if you wanted to alter your line slightly mid corner it was awkward. You either continued to steer more or straightened up then had to steer again. This problem was overcome by the brilliantly simple action of pressing the opposite direction. Imagine turning right. You hold the steer right key till the maximum required lock is attained. You then hold down the steer left key while still holding the steer right key. The lock locks, so to speak. To wind of the lock you had to quickly let go of the steer right key to allow the steering to straighten a little then press it again to hold it again. This system was remarkably sucessful. The further from the straight a head position you got the quicker the rate of steering became. Though at a really tight corner, like a hairpin, the normal steering rate was not quick enough. So you pressed the spacebar to accelerate the steering rate. IIRC it also had a slight help function where only when you were got to a tight corner did the full steering lock become available without the use of the spacebar. As I said this system worked well, especially for the simpler circuits such as the version of Silverstone used. A later update of REVS, REVS+ on the C64 only I think, had a steering help feature. It took the earlier mentioned limited lock feature a bit further by limiting the lock to the right sort of level required for a given corner. It certainly didn't steer into corners for you. This method of steering may work on an F1 game but the an F3 car is much slower and has a lot less power. Power slides were almost impossible so it might be very difficult to use in F1. I hope all that made sense. If any one who has played REVS recently, I haven't for about 5 years, could correct any errors I have made I would be grateful. Having said all that I didn't become really good at REVS till I got an analogue steering controller. I can understand the keyboard users frustration with the steering help, I wanted mouse steering on F1GP1 for the ST, but I really feel that an analogue joystick or steering wheel is the only way. Rich. this thread, finished at a degree at SHU last year can he E-mail me. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Richard Wow, I didn't think there were many of us Revs players left! ISTR that in Revs you had another key to give you steering help. I used to use < and > for left and right but when the wheel turn became slow you could press space to speed it up. I have always used the keyboard from Revs though F1GP on the Atari ST and then PC to todays F1GP2. I just can't use a joystick as I don't get a feel for driving the car. Wandered into PC world today and they had F1GP2 running on a P5 200Mhz with a cheapish (40ukp) steering wheel attached. With all detail except sky the game ran ok but I think the machine had a poor graphics card so it could have been better. The wheel was ok ish but lacked any sort of quality feel but it was very smooth, I think the thrustmaster would be the way to go but it's a lot of money for a game which I will most likely tire of in a few months. >this thread, finished at a degree at SHU last year can he E-mail me. Sorry but I'm not that Dave Roberts. Regards Dave -- ("'\-/'").___..--''"-._ ( 0_ 0 ) -. ( ).-.__.) *** Kitty mmeeeeeoooowwwwwww (_Y_.)' ._ ) ._ . -..-' Cheers _..--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Dave Roberts (().-'' (().' ((!.-' [link lost in import: /~darob]

I haven't played it for about 5 years now. I dug out the old C64 last year but it has broken. I will have to pick up another one sometime. I am thinking of putting together some sort of Revs WWW page now that Demon has given all it's subscribers some server space. E-mail em if you have any ideas for content. >>this thread, finished at a degree at SHU last year can he E-mail me. >Sorry but I'm not that Dave Roberts. Oh well. Right name, right country and an interest in F1GP. Thanks for letting me know. Rich. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------