GP2 rain

In my opinion I think it would be very difficult to make code for rain. If Microprose had made code for rain the release may have been pushed back another 6-9 months. Spray from the water on the track would have to be made and rain falling from the sky would also have to be implemented. Not to metion changing the handling characteristics of the cars. Maybe Microprose will make a rain patch.

Not to mention that it will make all our systems crawl. Maybe that's why it is no in there now. -- http://www.netins.net/showcase/mpete Nascar..Weather..OnNetCameras..Oddities..and more.. Stop on by, what can it hurt?

>In my opinion I think it would be very difficult to make code for rain. >If Microprose had made code for rain the release may have been pushed >back another 6-9 months. Spray from the water on the track would have >to be made and rain falling from the sky would also have to be >implemented. Not to metion changing the handling characteristics of >the cars. Maybe Microprose will make a rain patch. well, the basics are already there: the dust of the graveltraps, the smoke of braking or accelerating tires. All that had to be changed slightly in behavior, while changing most of the colors to a grey value. And there you were, right in the middle of wet conditions :-) --------------------------------------------------------- manni struck - http://www.dortmund.netsurf.de/~mstruck/

Well while it may be difficult to do it as well as the other graphics in the sim. It is necessary, F1 is reknowned for the races in the rain some of the greatest drivers were incredible in the rain. So I would prefer if they only made the sky gray and showed a few drops to let us know its raining as the most important part is the traction or lack of it. F1 has rain and the best damn car racing sim should have it as well. F1 without rain isnt F1. Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

I think the first poster had it right. Even without the rain drops you would still need the rooster tail coming off the tires which could be done like the smoke but transparencies kill your proccessor. Try doing a little whhelspin in reverse and then drive through the smoke to see what I mean. Now imagine that x4 cars in front of you. I think Geoff was propably unwilling to implement a traction only solution which would not have been very real.

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>But you know what really does stick in my craw about this sim is the >interface....I PHOOCKING HATE THE INTERFACE....ALOT...UM really . >I have counted the amount of clicks with a mouse it takes to get back >to the starting line if you botch a start. ELEVEN...ARRRGGGGHH that >sucks...big time...I realise that the interface duplicates the old WC >but heh its the 21 century..<VBG> How about a shortcut key like ICR >has...botch the start shift-R and you go right back and try again

Not sure I'ld go quite that far, but it is a real shame that Geoff Crammond seemingly refused to even look at Papy's games. He could have learned a lot about the non-physics model stuff (that's not to say that he couldn't also have learned anything from the physics model - different subject <g>) As for the re-start option, I must admit that I found it too easy to restart in ICR. Made me a little too agressive at the start of the races, knowing that I could easily restart <g> Richard

>But you know what really does stick in my craw about this sim is the >interface....I PHOOCKING HATE THE INTERFACE....ALOT....ARRRGGGGHH that >sucks...big time... Amen brother, It sucked in GP1 and it sucks even more in GP2. At least the quick race restart was good in the first version.

>>But you know what really does stick in my craw about this sim is the >>interface....I PHOOCKING HATE THE INTERFACE....ALOT....ARRRGGGGHH that >>sucks...big time... >Amen brother, It sucked in GP1 and it sucks even more in GP2. At least >the quick race restart was good in the first version. Watch you're quoting please. I _did not_ say the above! Richard

kinda like: Well said, PD. It is amazing how much folks want to make this program out to be the end-all of racing sims; I've never seen a group of folks so willing to overlook flaws that would be screamed about in other programs. An F1 sim without rain is hardly a full, accurate simulation of Formula 1 racing. How many races have been won and lost because of a decision to either stay with standard tires or switch to rain tires? merc

Well I hope they get around to it anyway no matter what the cheerleaders say. Its required, some representation of rain is required. Make the skies grey change the color of the track, be ambitous and show the drying line. <VBG> But saying that I still really do like this sim. Its not everything I had hoped for but then again what is? Keep telling myself to not get my expectations up too high but hey Im from the US. Thats a trait.<G> But you know what really does stick in my craw about this sim is the interface....I PHOOCKING HATE THE INTERFACE....ALOT...UM really . I have counted the amount of clicks with a mouse it takes to get back to the starting line if you botch a start. ELEVEN...ARRRGGGGHH that sucks...big time...I realise that the interface duplicates the old WC but heh its the 21 century..<VBG> How about a shortcut key like ICR has...botch the start shift-R and you go right back and try again. Not with GP2 though...escape...are you sure ...."yes"....are you really really sure..."yes" ..no kidding you want to abandon the race "YES" well that would be dumb....still want to "YES YES YES" okay well here goes.Many steps left out because my *** pressure rises just thinking about it. Makes me feel like Im about to lose something really valuable, almost like Im asking it to delete my operating system. Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

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>>>But you know what really does stick in my craw about this sim is the >>>interface....I PHOOCKING HATE THE INTERFACE....ALOT....ARRRGGGGHH that >>>sucks...big time... >>Amen brother, It sucked in GP1 and it sucks even more in GP2. At least >>the quick race restart was good in the first version. >Watch you're quoting please. I _did not_ say the above! >Richard

Yes you did - are you blind?? He's just cut some bits out. ------------- Richard Sobey

>>>>But you know what really does stick in my craw about this sim is the >>>>interface....I PHOOCKING HATE THE INTERFACE....ALOT....ARRRGGGGHH that >>>>sucks...big time... I actually said the above , he said the below agreeing with my somewhat overwrought whinning about the interface. Have you gone to the eye doctor recently?<VBG> Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand >He's just cut some bits out. >------------- >Richard Sobey

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>>>>But you know what really does stick in my craw about this sim is the >>>>interface....I PHOOCKING HATE THE INTERFACE....ALOT....ARRRGGGGHH that >>>>sucks...big time... >>>Amen brother, It sucked in GP1 and it sucks even more in GP2. At least >>>the quick race restart was good in the first version. >>Watch you're quoting please. I _did not_ say the above! >>Richard >Yes you did - are you blind??

Er, look again at my post. I did _not_ say that. I _quoted_ that from Hence the title including "was Re: GP2 Rain" - that was the thread that papadoc had written in. I started a new thread as talking about the interface had nothing to do with rain. btw I know that I didn't say it, because I don't like shouting & if I am going to write f*&$ing then I will ***ing well write f*&$ing <G> Yeah, each & every one of the words that I had written!!!! Richard

hehehe Well old habits die hard. Used to have to write like that on the Prodigy Flight sim board to get past the censors and also when flying H2H in falcon the F key is disabled so if you want to write *** you have to write PHOCK.... Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

GP1 had rain, and it was well done... nice feeling of the real thing... that could have been implemented in GP2 without taking that much of ressources... so, what's the hell Geoff ?

Well I dont have to have a SHIFT-R but do we really need to go thru eleven clicks of the mouse as punishment for botching the start. Couldnt it be 3 or 4? Eleven seems quite a bit of punishment especially considering all the menus default to the wrong answer. Im not a pro at this (yet)<VBG> so going thru all the clicks is just damn tedious. Maybe the screen could just show a graphic of the driver getting spanked for his/her mistake.<G> Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

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>>But you know what really does stick in my craw about this sim is the >>interface....I PHOOCKING HATE THE INTERFACE....ALOT...UM really . >>I have counted the amount of clicks with a mouse it takes to get back >>to the starting line if you botch a start. ELEVEN...ARRRGGGGHH that >>sucks...big time...I realise that the interface duplicates the old WC >>but heh its the 21 century..<VBG> How about a shortcut key like ICR >>has...botch the start shift-R and you go right back and try again >Not sure I'ld go quite that far, but it is a real shame that Geoff >Crammond seemingly refused to even look at Papy's games. He could have >learned a lot about the non-physics model stuff (that's not to say >that he couldn't also have learned anything from the physics model - >different subject <g>) >As for the re-start option, I must admit that I found it too easy to >restart in ICR. Made me a little too agressive at the start of the >races, knowing that I could easily restart <g> >Richard

I think the restart would be good for the "quickrace" selection. I do a lot of quickraces to get used to a course, and flying in to the gravel and spending the next 20 seconds in slow-mo twisting my T2 to the breaking point and watching the entire field dissappear in the distance isn't any help in learning the course, and has often been the last straw for an evening of GP2. I would agree that there shouldn't be a <shift-r> sort of thing for formal races. You***one of them up, you ought to start all over. About the interface- ya, it can be irritating. I'd say that neither Papy nor Crammond quite got it right yet.. In GP2, I'd say the major headache is the default answer to "Are you sure you want to abandon/quit/etc.?" being "no." That is grating. Reminds me of trying to quit WordPerfect for DOS! Anyone remember that stupidity? The GP2 interface might be better if it had a better manual- I understand from rumor in this group that Americans got ripped off in the manual department. I could believe it- it didn't even tell me how to get to car setups, and it took me 4 or 5 days before I tackled how to do anything in the pits. Another thing... weren't in-car torsion bar adjustments in '94 F1 cars? I guess that is a technicality... but what really kills me is not having any brake bias adjustments. I'm in Hungary right now, and getting the car nibmle with the brakes is crucial for me. I really don't like this course; maybe I will learn to. But do I like GP2? Yes, of course I do. It is quite a shock from ICR2, where the cars are seemingly on ice... I really like having both of them to jump between. I love the fact that GP2 has steering and braking help- that way my 5 year old can race too. She feared ICR2, and I don't blame her, it is the most unforgiving driving model. ICR2 is hard-core sim, no frills. I think if they gave it some frills like GP2, they could have made their market wider. BUt I guess that hope is lost these days... I also love the fact Crammond really thought about how important it is to let the user configure controller sensitivities very carefully. I begged Papyrus to consider that; but no, you got linear, you got non-linear, that's it. People might say my request was unrealistic, but let's face it, a real car moving shows a lot of resistance to turning when it goes fast versus slow, which is it's own sort of non-linear sensitivity.

It's weird. I've seen a lot of r.a.s. posts from the USA asking simple questions about car setup, but my USA manual has basic tips for all of the setup questions. There's a six***-page section in the Appendix of my manual that discusses car setup issues. FYI, my manual is 150 pages and all pix are in B&W. I purchased GP2 in Orange Park, FL. -- +-----------------+------------------------------------------- | G. Warren Abao | Official BBL Jacksonville Jaguars Website: | +----------------------------------------+----------------- | SPOOOOOOOOOOON!!! | BBL Jacksonville 1-0 | IFL Chicago 11-7 | +------------------+-----------------------+-----------------

>hehehe Well old habits die hard. Used to have to write like that on >the Prodigy Flight sim board to get past the censors Another nail in the coffin of those who say censorship never works <VVBG> Richard

[snip snip snip] : Another thing... weren't in-car torsion bar adjustments in '94 F1 : cars? I guess that is a technicality... but what really kills me is : not having any brake bias adjustments. I'm in Hungary right now, and : getting the car nibmle with the brakes is crucial for me. I really : don't like this course; maybe I will learn to. I am no rule expert, but I can't believe we can't adjust the brake bias from the car! I mean, even the poor American manuals says, "The driver can adjust the brake balance from the***pit..." (pg.122) : But do I like GP2? Yes, of course I do. It is quite a shock from ICR2, : where the cars are seemingly on ice... I really like having both of : them to jump between. I love the fact that GP2 has steering and : braking help- that way my 5 year old can race too. She feared ICR2, : and I don't blame her, it is the most unforgiving driving model. ICR2 : is hard-core sim, no frills. I think if they gave it some frills like : GP2, they could have made their market wider. BUt I guess that hope is : lost these days... Actually I hope Papyrus does not back away from producing "hard-core" sims. I enjoy GP2, ICR2, & NASCAR. Each brings something unique to the mix. But I need my "hard-core sim" fix! : I also love the fact Crammond really thought about how important it is : to let the user configure controller sensitivities very carefully. I : begged Papyrus to consider that; but no, you got linear, you got : non-linear, that's it. People might say my request was unrealistic, : but let's face it, a real car moving shows a lot of resistance to : turning when it goes fast versus slow, which is it's own sort of : non-linear sensitivity. YES YES YES! This is an excellent feature of GP2! Papyrus, if you learn nothing else from GP2, study this well! Of course while you are at it, CURBS, CURBS, KERBS!!!!!!!!!!! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

: As for the re-start option, I must admit that I found it too easy to : restart in ICR. Made me a little too agressive at the start of the : races, knowing that I could easily restart <g> Well, until I have a computer which is 2x the beast that the race sims are requiring, I NEED a quick restart. I don't know how many times a good clean start has turned into a "red-flag" disaster due to the whole 1st corner turning into a slow-motion nightmare, having no control whatsoever! This goes for GP2 & Papyrus's products. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

>I think the first poster had it right. Even without the rain drops you would >still need the rooster tail coming off the tires which could be done like the >smoke but transparencies kill your proccessor. Try doing a little whhelspin in >reverse and then drive through the smoke to see what I mean. Now imagine that >x4 cars in front of you. I think Geoff was propably unwilling to implement a >traction only solution which would not have been very real. yeah, you're absolutly right about that. I would be satisfied already with the colors turned to grey, like the old version had. :-) --------------------------------------------------------- manni struck - http://www.dortmund.netsurf.de/~mstruck/

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>>The GP2 interface might be better if it had a better manual- I >>understand from rumor in this group that Americans got ripped off in >>the manual department. I could believe it- it didn't even tell me how >>to get to car setups, and it took me 4 or 5 days before I tackled how >>to do anything in the pits. >It's weird. I've seen a lot of r.a.s. posts from the USA asking simple >questions about car setup, but my USA manual has basic tips for all of the >setup questions. There's a six***-page section in the Appendix of my manual >that discusses car setup issues. >FYI, my manual is 150 pages and all pix are in B&W. I purchased GP2 in Orange >Park, FL.

Yep, we got the same one. But maybe you had GP originally... my problem wasn't changing setups- in fact, I find them refreshingly clear as compared to ICR2... but I was looking and looking in the manual for how to GET to the setups, and decided it just isn't in the manual. I finally found it in the program, of course. Took me a while to figure out how to use the pits too, but that is fine now too. Any tips on how to do replays? I don't quite understand where to go on that matter. And once and for all, does GP2 keep personal best times for me, or only track records? I love GP2, don't anyone get me wrong... nowhere's near a disaster release like some products we might be familiar with.

>>I think the first poster had it right. Even without the rain drops you would >>still need the rooster tail coming off the tires which could be done like the >>smoke but transparencies kill your proccessor. Try doing a little whhelspin in >>reverse and then drive through the smoke to see what I mean. Now imagine that >>x4 cars in front of you. I think Geoff was propably unwilling to implement a >>traction only solution which would not have been very real. I'm not in to Geof worship at all, but I will say that I am very, very impressed with the decisions he made, and he had to make an awful lot of decisions (compromises) to get this monster playable on a 486 in VGA minimum. SOme might say he made it "arcadish", but I think he just realized the fundamental importance of really getting the player to believe he is in a car. At Hungary (as I suppose lots of you are gearing up on to), I've found that the depth of the simulation really becomes apparent, riding that edge between control and spin. The curbs are amazing. Amazing.