GRAND PRIX 2 - '94 cars

So Microprose are gonna use the 1994 cars in Grand Prix 2, big deal. 1994 was a better season than '95 has been, and there will be a greater competition between Hill and Schumacher, as there was in '94. Microprose have done an excellent job judging by the looks of things and I for one can't wait to play it. Good work Mr. Crammond!! Cheerz, Dave Bowers.

In my opinion there never is a close race in F1GP, if you want close racing then you have to watch NASCAR, it dont get any closer! Go chevys, Mike

: So Microprose are gonna use the 1994 cars in Grand Prix 2, big deal. : 1994 was a better season than '95 has been, and there will be a : greater competition between Hill and Schumacher, as there was in '94. I don't like dragging F1 discussion into rec.autos.simulators, but how do you figure that '94 was a better season? '94 was probably the WORST season in recent F1 history! Senna died, the tracks were castrated, there was not one overtaking move for the lead done on the track, there was not a single close race aside from Suzuka and Adelaide, and the only competition between Hill and Schumacher was because of FIA rulings. With all the good races this year, '95 would have been a great season to simulate. It's true that Schumacher's won over half of the races, but at least he's had to fight for them (unlike the +1:30 finishes of early '94). : Microprose have done an excellent job judging by the looks of things : and I for one can't wait to play it. Good work Mr. Crammond!! Me too. Martin Nigel Mansell RIP!

Ha Ha go chevys go :( More like roll chevys roll. You cant beat F1 in any way OK?

Depends if you're talking about the real thing or the game. Yep, there's not a lot of close racing in real life F1GP anymore, but in the game, I've had plenty of close races (and finishes). Try a race at Monza and just watch as for lap after lap the computer cars slip-stream each other and swap places down the straights. If it doesn't happen on your copy of the game, then you obviously have different car/driver performance settings to me. Seeya, Steve.

|> >> there was not a single close race << |> In my opinion there never is a close race in F1GP, What planet are you living on? The '95 Belgium GP is indeed the best ever. With Hill and Schumacher battling for first place in the wet, Hill with wet tires and Schumacher with slick tires... |> if you want close |> racing then you have to watch NASCAR, it dont get any closer! ***-CAR? The series where cars run around in circles? Yeah... three or four caution laps every 20 laps or so, to bunch up everybody and create some "close" racing... IMO this is not racing. If you want to see cars closely bunched up, look into your local supermarket's parking lot. They are indeed real close. But there is no real racing. -- Isaac Wong (613) 763-6127 | Protel Compiler Group (Helpline ESN 395-4009) http://chat.carleton.ca/~iwong | Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

MC> >> there was not a single close race << MC> if you want close racing then you have to watch NASCAR, it dont get MC> any closer! Naaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!! This is a mindless-four-wheel view.....lets get a REAL racing sim ....... 250cc GP or Superbikes! __T_H_A_T_'_S__ RACING!!! B-) Cheers! --- * RM 1.3 U0414 * Dogs crawl under gates, software crawls under Windows!

|> The thing with both Indy and F1GP racing. is the are both computer |> races. The team who can set their computer to control the car the best, |> will win. With NASCAR, the DRIVER controls the shifting, the throttle, |> the brakes...A REAL driver/team series!! Huh? Are we talking about the same thing? How can someone compare real NASCAR series with Indycar, and real Formula One? I thought NASCAR only run around in circles and only use the brakes when they need to avoid hitting somebody and to make pit stops. Do NASCAR drivers change gears a lot? I suppose not... I thought they use the same gear throughout most of the race... Perhaps the driver is there to put his right foot on the throttle and his two hands on the steering wheel, and sit there for a couple of hours driving around in circles... Have you ever seen wet races in F1 BTW? It is the ultimate test of drivers' guts and skills. -- Isaac Wong (613) 763-6127 | Protel Compiler Group (Helpline ESN 395-4009) http://chat.carleton.ca/~iwong | Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

Errr... right!! So there isn't any auto-brake and automatic gear option in NASCAR Racing? It's easier in NASCAR because there's only 4 gears whereas in the other two there's 6. The main annoyance with both NASCAR and Indycar in my mind is full course yellows on any track but particularly ovals. God.. it makes the race so boring (as if ovals were interesting to start with).

: The thing with both Indy and F1GP racing. is the are both computer : races. The team who can set their computer to control the car the best, : will win. With NASCAR, the DRIVER controls the shifting, the throttle, : the brakes...A REAL driver/team series!! : Mike What?!? --

Quoted text (13 lines)

|> Hmmm... Isaac, I'm sorry to point this out but it would appear that if |> someone on this planet is clueless about Nascar, then it is you.. your |> claim about Nascar drivers not shifting gears and not using brakes is, |> to be honest, completely ridiculous. After I got Nascar Racing, my eyes |> were opened; Nascar is, possibly, the most challenging and competitive sport |> on the planet. Obviously you have never raced on an oval, or at least have |> not raced enough ---> Nascar racing seems stupid to many people because it |> is so different, but I tell you: there is no sport in my knowledge which |> demands as much skill, cunning, and pure _ability_ if you want to win. |> Money, unlike in so many other sports, won't make much a difference, since |> the rules force the cars to be almost equal.. I once saw a Nascar race |> where the winner started 44th on the grid. That tell you something? Would |> this be possible in F1?

I admit that I am clueless about NASCAR, since I just hate watching it on TV, not to mention playing it on the computer. But I think you are just about as clueless as I am in terms of things about F1. If you think F1 is less demanding, I am sure many people will immediately point it out, that you are dead wrong. F1 demands the most physical strength from the drivers, if you know how much g-force they suffer throughout the 2 hour race. F1 also demands the most concentration from the drivers, if you know they don't have caution laps very often (maybe once or twice in a year?). All the drivers go flat out and try to gain split seconds in every corner. If you think that the richest team in F1 wins the most races, then I again point it out to you, you are wrong again. McLaren is among one of the richest team in the sport, however they are not winning for two seasons. If you watch F1 races occasionally and think that the drivers seem to cruise around without difficulties, then you are wrong again. Because they are the best drivers in the world. They possess the highest driving skills among all auto sports. F1 is the ultimate challenge. I really urge you to look at wet races in F1, then you will never, ever turn back and watch NASCAR again. |> I once saw a Nascar race |> where the winner started 44th on the grid. That tell you something? Would |> this be possible in F1? Anything can happen in real life sports. That doesn't prove NASCAR is more superior to F1. F1 doesn't have more than 26 runners. I am sure many F1 fans can also raise a lot of examples about why F1 is more superior. -- Isaac Wong (613) 763-6127 | Protel Compiler Group (Helpline ESN 395-4009) http://chat.carleton.ca/~iwong | Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

[snip] You mean that Nascar drivers dont go through all of this! Give me a break all racing requires alot of concentration from the drivers. All racing puts G forcer on their drivers, you obviously dont realise how much g-forces are put on a driver in a high bank race track. You are saying Nascar drivers dont go flat out! Nascar drivers go flat out all the time just like F1 drivers do. Just because there are yellow in Nascar doesnt mean Nascar drivers dont go through what F1 drivers have to. I am sure both forms of racing require just as much from the driver. Nascar needs yellow to clean up after a wreck because there is so much close racing there would be no safe time to clean it up except during a yellow. Does a team with half the money of McLaren, or any other big buck team in F1, ever win a race? Enough said! I dont think any real driver just cruises around the track without difficulties whether it be Nascar, F1 or Indycar. They all require a lot out of the driver if that driver wants to be successful. What kind of experience do you have to say F1 is the ultimate challenge? Nascar and F1 are totally two different sports and each of them are a challenge to who ever drives in them. According to you, any F1 driver can jump right in to a Nascar car and blow away everyone. I really doubt that this would happen, maybe after they get the experience but not right at first. But then again if you are a great driver then you could go from Nascar to F1 or F1 to Nascar and be a champion. Instead of putting down a sport you obviously dont know much about, try and understand it first! A real race fan can watch any form of racing and atleast respect the fact the it is a challenge in its on respect. You just cant say one is more demanding thant the other because you dont have any experience in neither. You do have the right though to enjoy one over the other and respect they fact that someone else might enjoy something different! All racing is great, Mike

>Errr... right!! So there isn't any auto-brake and automatic gear option >in NASCAR Racing? It's easier in NASCAR because there's only 4 gears >whereas in the other two there's 6. >The main annoyance with both NASCAR and Indycar in my mind is full course >yellows on any track but particularly ovals. God.. it makes the race so >boring (as if ovals were interesting to start with). Yeah, I find ovals a total bore and snore which is one of the reasons I dont play Papryus games. And when you get to the road courses, the AI stinks in them. Of course, real F1 racing has been a bore for me since around '89, and find running World Circuit at 8:00am on Sunday mornings more interesting than watching the F1 races. Ah, I long for those days in the 60's/ 70's and 80's of F1 super great racing. Ah well, at least GP Motorcycle races still hold my interest.

HH> Yeah, I find ovals a total bore and snore Mmmmm. This man seems to have some sense. HH> Ah well, at least GP Motorcycle races still hold my interest. I was right - another fan of _REAL_ racing!!! All this gob about ovals vs tracks, NASCAR vs ICR vs F1 misses the point. For a genuine racing sim we need a 250cc GP simulator.....very close racing, skill predominating, clean riding, exciting viewing......it's got everything except the sim! Papyrus? Crammond? B-) Cheers! --- * RM 1.3 U0414 * Include this in your CONFIG.SYS File: BUGS=OFF

Quoted text (10 lines)

>> Have you ever seen wet races in F1 BTW? It is the ultimate test of drivers' >> guts and skills. >Hmmm... Isaac, I'm sorry to point this out but it would appear that if >someone on this planet is clueless about Nascar, then it is you.. your >claim about Nascar drivers not shifting gears and not using brakes is, >to be honest, completely ridiculous. After I got Nascar Racing, my eyes >were opened; Nascar is, possibly, the most challenging and competitive sport >on the planet. Obviously you have never raced on an oval, or at least have >not raced enough --->

Oh yes...And Mansell just stepped in for one year to become Indycar Champion.I remember everyone told he would have to accommodate to ovals first..But how many races did he win on ovals in his first year ? I think you can be more precise than I :) I'm not saying NASCAR isn't challenging, but with all respect I think that DRIVING a formula one car FAST around a circuit like Spa Francorchamps is more of a challenge... Greets, Jo =~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~ signature requires __,,,,_ fixed-pitch font , _ ___.--'''`--''// ,-_ `-. \`"' ' || \\ \ \\/ / // / ,- `,_ /'` \ || Y | \|/ / // / -.,__ `-, / _.-. .-\,___| _-| / \ \/|_/ | `-._._) `-' f/ | / __/ \__ / |__/ \ `-' | -| \__ \ |-' | __/ /__,-' ) ,' _|' (((__.-'((___..-'((__,' "Tiger run around the tree......" =~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~=~^\/^~

Quoted text (17 lines)

> Mike Carrothers writes: > |> The thing with both Indy and F1GP racing. is the are both computer > |> races. The team who can set their computer to control the car the best, > |> will win. With NASCAR, the DRIVER controls the shifting, the throttle, > |> the brakes...A REAL driver/team series!! > Huh? Are we talking about the same thing? How can someone compare real > NASCAR series with Indycar, and real Formula One? I thought NASCAR only > run around in circles and only use the brakes when they need to avoid > hitting somebody and to make pit stops. Do NASCAR drivers change gears > a lot? I suppose not... I thought they use the same gear throughout most > of the race... Perhaps the driver is there to put his right foot on the > throttle and his two hands on the steering wheel, and sit there for a couple > of hours driving around in circles... > Have you ever seen wet races in F1 BTW? It is the ultimate test of drivers' > guts and skills.

Hmmm... Isaac, I'm sorry to point this out but it would appear that if someone on this planet is clueless about Nascar, then it is you.. your claim about Nascar drivers not shifting gears and not using brakes is, to be honest, completely ridiculous. After I got Nascar Racing, my eyes were opened; Nascar is, possibly, the most challenging and competitive sport on the planet. Obviously you have never raced on an oval, or at least have not raced enough ---> Nascar racing seems stupid to many people because it is so different, but I tell you: there is no sport in my knowledge which demands as much skill, cunning, and pure _ability_ if you want to win. Money, unlike in so many other sports, won't make much a difference, since the rules force the cars to be almost equal.. I once saw a Nascar race where the winner started 44th on the grid. That tell you something? Would this be possible in F1? Tommi Pajari

>HH> Ah well, at least GP Motorcycle races still hold my interest. [...] >I was right - another fan of _REAL_ racing!!! All this gob about ovals [...] As I understand it, Crammond was working on a "Superbike Grand Prix" game to use the same basic engine as F1GP2. It is no longer listed on their web site so perhaps they gave up the idea. Bombard --

Quoted text (11 lines)

|> |> [snip] |> > F1 demands the most physical strength from the drivers, |> >if you know how much g-force they suffer throughout the 2 hour race. F1 also |> >demands the most concentration from the drivers, if you know they don't have |> >caution laps very often (maybe once or twice in a year?). All the drivers |> >go flat out and try to gain split seconds in every corner. |> You mean that Nascar drivers dont go through all of this! Give me a |> break all racing requires alot of concentration from the drivers. All |> racing puts G forcer on their drivers, you obviously dont realise how |> much g-forces are put on a driver in a high bank race track.

Ha! I wasn't saying NASCAR drivers don't suffer from g-forces. For certain they don't suffer as much. How many times do they have to brake from 200mph to 50mph and accelerate back up to 180mph every lap? Remember, not only the cornering g-forces that count, drivers also suffer braking/accelerating g-forces. You obviously don't realize this. |> You are saying Nascar drivers dont go flat out! Nascar drivers go |> flat out all the time just like F1 drivers do. Just because there are |> yellow in Nascar doesnt mean Nascar drivers dont go through what F1 |> drivers have to. I am sure both forms of racing require just as much |> from the driver. What's the point of going flat out during the caution laps??? Do they gain any advantages of doing so? I thought there might be a few caution laps every ~20 laps or so. I am sure during the caution laps, the drivers must be in a more relaxed condition. Compared to F1, the drivers are concentrating throughout the whole race. |>>If you think that the richest team in F1 wins the most races, then I again |>>point it out to you, you are wrong again. McLaren is among one of the richest |>>team in the sport, however they are not winning for two seasons. |> Does a team with half the money of McLaren, or any other big buck |> team in F1, ever win a race? Enough said! ^^^^ Obviously you don't watch F1 races very often. I am sure Michael Schumacher and Nelson Piquet both won races for Bennetton when it was still a "small team" compared to the "big boys" several years back.

Quoted text (15 lines)

|> What kind of experience do you have to say F1 is the ultimate |> challenge? Nascar and F1 are totally two different sports and each of |> them are a challenge to who ever drives in them. According to you, |> any F1 driver can jump right in to a Nascar car and blow away |> everyone. I really doubt that this would happen, maybe after they get |> the experience but not right at first. But then again if you are a |> great driver then you could go from Nascar to F1 or F1 to Nascar and |> be a champion. |> Instead of putting down a sport you obviously dont know much about, |> try and understand it first! A real race fan can watch any form of |> racing and atleast respect the fact the it is a challenge in its on |> respect. You just cant say one is more demanding thant the other |> because you dont have any experience in neither. You do have the |> right though to enjoy one over the other and respect they fact that |> someone else might enjoy something different!

Ok, what kind of experience (or theory) do you have to prove that NASCAR is _as_ demanding _as_ F1? -- Isaac Wong (613) 763-6127 | Protel Compiler Group (Helpline ESN 395-4009) http://chat.carleton.ca/~iwong | Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

snip> At last, some more people with a taste for *exciting* racing. C'mon Papyrus or Crammond, lets see a decent Motorcycle Sim. They are everywhen in the arcades, why not at home ? -- +--------------------------------------------------------+ | Graeme Weston-Lewis Symbios Logic | | KE6HUH snail mail: 2001 Danfield Court, | | Fort Collins, CO 80525 | | voice: (970) 226 9629 Fax: (970) 226 9686 | | "If its got more than 2 wheels - it isn't fast enough" | +--------------------------------------------------------+

Yes, add me to the list of one who wants a GP moto sim, Accolades "The Cycles" is getting old in the tooth. While I do love open wheel racing, I do believe it takes far more cajones to race a 500cc GP bike than any open wheeled racing car. Hunter

writes: > As I understand it, Crammond was working on a "Superbike Grand Prix" > game to use the same basic engine as F1GP2. It is no longer listed on > their web site so perhaps they gave up the idea. Bombard Aye, MPS were working on a superbikes game. Last news (about a month ago) was that they were having problems with design - falling off the bike etc. The problem was, did the rider actually depart from his bike as in real biking or did he stay on as in No Second Prize, the old motorbike game from Thalion. Or at least those were the rumours. Dave Bowers

Nope except a great game I like (not a sim but cool) is Road Rash

>Yeah, I find ovals a total bore and snore which is >one of the reasons I dont play Papryus games. And when >you get to the road courses, the AI stinks in them. That doesn't leave you much choice then! Stuart. -- From the bedroom of Stuart Booth, Somewhere in Guildford, England...

DG> As I understand it, Crammond was working on a "Superbike Grand Prix" DG> game to use the same basic engine as F1GP2. It is no longer listed DG> on their web site so perhaps they gave up the idea. Bombard Were they? Oh WOW! Full coventional/nuclear *** launched as advised! B-) Cheers! --- * RM 1.3 U0414 * In DoubleSpace, no one can hear you scream !

Quoted text (7 lines)

>I was right - another fan of _REAL_ racing!!! All this gob about ovals >vs tracks, NASCAR vs ICR vs F1 misses the point. For a genuine racing >sim we need a 250cc GP simulator.....very close racing, skill >predominating, clean riding, exciting viewing......it's got everything >except the sim! >Papyrus? Crammond?

I am interested in almost all forms of autosport (motorcycles included) and would love a 500cc World Championship Simulation. One of the problems I envisage is the controller. My T1 really gives me the realism (without VR or g forces ofcourse) but how would we get the need to lean into the corners etc. Back to my Quick Shot Joystick I suppose. I even built my own 'car' out of wood. It allows me to sit in a reclining angle for better control. I could post a photo if anyone is interested. Anyone else could build one (I am no handyman) and it only cost me A$70 in materials (not including T1). A knowledgable friend says that the 500cc is not so popular in USA (is he right?) so that might preclude Papryus. Cheers, Craig ************************************************************** * Canberra, Australia * * IWCC #2 Marker Bindings Pontiac - Rick Higbee Motorsports * **************************************************************