Re: N3 ON-LINE (the truth about Latency)

Ron, Even though you have proven that a lot of the latency myths are just that, you'll never convince the people who think otherwise. They'll still limit latency to ridiculously low limits etc. when they host games, and do their own thing. Great post though. -- Mike Johansson NeOhio SCCA Ron Ayton <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01bf12f9$128c3b40$0100007f@ronayton... > Hi, > With all the comments that have been thrown around about how we all > have to have a cable and extra low pings to be able to enjoy N3 > on-line, i thought i would post my on-line testing results i have so > far done with N3, and try to dispel a few un-truths and myths.... > > I live in Australia, and use an analogue 56k USR serial modem, which i > have capped at 26400 baud and so far, i have had dozens of warp-free > connections into USA based hosts with N3. > I have also had a few warpy ones, but the warpy ones i have been in, > were warpy for everyone else as well, even those with cable, not just > me. > > I have my modem capped at 26400 baud and have taken the time to setup > my on-line DUN for as good & error free as possible connections, and so > far, nearly all my on-line experiences with N3 have been as good as N3 > on-line can get.. > Normally my pings to the USA based hosts are in the region of 260 to > 400 ms and providing the host has taken steps to tune his own > connection, then that level of latency has been perfect for me from > Australia to the USA, in N3 on-line racing... > > Up untill tonight, i had not even bothered to try hosting any events, > but i gave it a try tonight, with my modem still capped at 26400 baud. > I set up a race at Michigan and also limited the ammount of people who > could join to four.. > > ( i did not set a client latency cap, nor will i ever do so ) > > Three other USA based drivers joined my race at Michigan and the > connections were as good as a lan, i kid you not.. !!! > There was NO warping at all, from any of the three clients who joined > my race, and they all said i was just as solid as they were. > One of the drivers was following me with only inches to spare between > us, at speeds over 200 mph and not once were we ever in danger of > touching, through latency issues... > This was all done through my analogue modem at 26400 baud, with me > based in Australia and the three other clients based in the USA. > The only thing i will add here, is that the clients who joined my race, > all know about on-line issues and how to fine tune their connections > etc. for on-line play. > Also, it is obvious that clients in N3, do not require more than 8800 > baud of bandwidth each, or it would have been impossible for the three > clients who did join my race to do so, seen as how i had my modem > capped at 26400 baud.. > > So, to cap this off, i now know, that a ping of up to 350 ms, from an > analogue modem can/will be perfect for N3 on-line, if steps have been > taken by the modem user to fine tune his/her DUN etc.. > I have noticed very slight warping, once my ping gets closer to 400ms, > but it is very slight and hardly noticeable to the other clients that i > have questioned in regards to my connection quality at the time.. > > So, maybe, just maybe, any N3 hosts reading this post, might try > upping their latency caps a bit to a more reasonable level, like 400ms > maximum, if they really feel they need to kid themselves that latency > capping will cure their on-line woes anyway.. > I have proved to myself, and others, that latency capping N3 below 350 > ms, or restricting clients to cable only etc.. will not cure warping, > but education on connection issues will. > > N3 has got the potential to be a good on-line sim, on an international > scale, so why do hosts insist on setting ridiculously low capping > limits on their races, that do nothing, apart from keep out > international sim racers who would like to be able to enjoy N3 > on-line... ? > The answer is simply ignorance of connection issues.!!!! > I am not being peevish etc. i am simply trying to get the message > across, that a latency of 300 to 350 ms etc. will work perfectly, in > N3 on-line, as my testing over the last 3 weeks has proven to me. > > Obviously, we can't control the routers to or from the host and client, > so there will be times when we should disconnect ourselves and try > again, but at least, i know now, that N3 on-line can work, and work as > good for a medium ping modem client as it does for a low ping cable > client. > > This can only be good news to us all, and thanks have to go out to > Papyrus for making on-line racing over an unstable medium, like the > internet, possible to us, firstly with GPL and now with N3. > The future is looking bright. :) > Cya on-line.. > Cheers, > Ron >

Hi, With all the comments that have been thrown around about how we all have to have a cable and extra low pings to be able to enjoy N3 on-line, i thought i would post my on-line testing results i have so far done with N3, and try to dispel a few un-truths and myths.... I live in Australia, and use an analogue 56k USR serial modem, which i have capped at 26400 baud and so far, i have had dozens of warp-free connections into USA based hosts with N3. I have also had a few warpy ones, but the warpy ones i have been in, were warpy for everyone else as well, even those with cable, not just me. I have my modem capped at 26400 baud and have taken the time to setup my on-line DUN for as good & error free as possible connections, and so far, nearly all my on-line experiences with N3 have been as good as N3 on-line can get.. Normally my pings to the USA based hosts are in the region of 260 to 400 ms and providing the host has taken steps to tune his own connection, then that level of latency has been perfect for me from Australia to the USA, in N3 on-line racing... Up untill tonight, i had not even bothered to try hosting any events, but i gave it a try tonight, with my modem still capped at 26400 baud. I set up a race at Michigan and also limited the ammount of people who could join to four.. ( i did not set a client latency cap, nor will i ever do so ) Three other USA based drivers joined my race at Michigan and the connections were as good as a lan, i kid you not.. !!! There was NO warping at all, from any of the three clients who joined my race, and they all said i was just as solid as they were. One of the drivers was following me with only inches to spare between us, at speeds over 200 mph and not once were we ever in danger of touching, through latency issues... This was all done through my analogue modem at 26400 baud, with me based in Australia and the three other clients based in the USA. The only thing i will add here, is that the clients who joined my race, all know about on-line issues and how to fine tune their connections etc. for on-line play. Also, it is obvious that clients in N3, do not require more than 8800 baud of bandwidth each, or it would have been impossible for the three clients who did join my race to do so, seen as how i had my modem capped at 26400 baud.. So, to cap this off, i now know, that a ping of up to 350 ms, from an analogue modem can/will be perfect for N3 on-line, if steps have been taken by the modem user to fine tune his/her DUN etc.. I have noticed very slight warping, once my ping gets closer to 400ms, but it is very slight and hardly noticeable to the other clients that i have questioned in regards to my connection quality at the time.. So, maybe, just maybe, any N3 hosts reading this post, might try upping their latency caps a bit to a more reasonable level, like 400ms maximum, if they really feel they need to kid themselves that latency capping will cure their on-line woes anyway.. I have proved to myself, and others, that latency capping N3 below 350 ms, or restricting clients to cable only etc.. will not cure warping, but education on connection issues will. N3 has got the potential to be a good on-line sim, on an international scale, so why do hosts insist on setting ridiculously low capping limits on their races, that do nothing, apart from keep out international sim racers who would like to be able to enjoy N3 on-line... ? The answer is simply ignorance of connection issues.!!!! I am not being peevish etc. i am simply trying to get the message across, that a latency of 300 to 350 ms etc. will work perfectly, in N3 on-line, as my testing over the last 3 weeks has proven to me. Obviously, we can't control the routers to or from the host and client, so there will be times when we should disconnect ourselves and try again, but at least, i know now, that N3 on-line can work, and work as good for a medium ping modem client as it does for a low ping cable client. This can only be good news to us all, and thanks have to go out to Papyrus for making on-line racing over an unstable medium, like the internet, possible to us, firstly with GPL and now with N3. The future is looking bright. :) Cya on-line.. Cheers, Ron

Ron Ayton <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01bf12f9$128c3b40$0100007f@ronayton... > Hi, > With all the comments that have been thrown around about how we all > have to have a cable and extra low pings to be able to enjoy N3 > on-line, i thought i would post my on-line testing results i have so > far done with N3, and try to dispel a few un-truths and myths.... ><snip> > > I have my modem capped at 26400 baud and have taken the time to setup > my on-line DUN for as good & error free as possible connections, and so > far, nearly all my on-line experiences with N3 have been as good as N3 > on-line can get..<snip again> Will you please detail the steps you took to tweak your DUN?

Hey Ron. Everything you say has great merit, but won't faster connections have a better chance of low latency. If you had 100 high speed connections and 100 dial-up users who would be the cause of the most warping? You seem like a responsible online gamer and would not join a race if your pings were "out-of-whack" but this can't be said about everyone who joins races. Question is, how to we weed out bad connections from good?

Ron's detailed DUN tweaks are available on my site in the utilities section -- Thanks Michael Horton Webmaster of http://www.bus.nait.ab.ca/staff/mikeh/gpl/ Home of the F2/F3 Hotlaps and http://www.bus.nait.ab.ca/staff/mikeh/html/ HTML for Begineers Kenny L. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tL2M3.613$[email hidden]... > > Ron Ayton <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:01bf12f9$128c3b40$0100007f@ronayton... > > Hi, > > With all the comments that have been thrown around about how we all > > have to have a cable and extra low pings to be able to enjoy N3 > > on-line, i thought i would post my on-line testing results i have so > > far done with N3, and try to dispel a few un-truths and myths.... > > > <snip> > > > > I have my modem capped at 26400 baud and have taken the time to setup > > my on-line DUN for as good & error free as possible connections, and so > > far, nearly all my on-line experiences with N3 have been as good as N3 > > on-line can get.. > <snip again> > > Will you please detail the steps you took to tweak your DUN? > >

Not really. For example, DirecPC Satellite is useless for gaming because the latencies (the up channel and the latency from the Satellilte itself) are astronomical. Measured in _seconds_. Secondly, ISDN may not be as fast as cable or adsl, but in my experience it provides the lowest latencies of all the connections. 56k modems suck if they are set to connect at 56k speeds. Wayyyy too many re-transmits. They need to be set to connect at 24k or at most 26.4k. -Larry "Bean" <" bean"@westman.wave.ca> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hey Ron. Everything you say has great merit, but won't faster connections > have a better chance of low latency. If you had 100 high speed connections > and 100 dial-up users who would be the cause of the most warping? You seem > like a responsible online gamer and would not join a race if your pings > were "out-of-whack" but this can't be said about everyone who joins races. > Question is, how to we weed out bad connections from good? >

What server are you guys using? I'm using Mindspring with 56K modem and can only race about 1 time out of ten because of latency problems. I live in a very rual area and I'm not sure whats available to me. To be honest I'm not up to date on the whole internet connecton things. I just don't know much about whats available and what it does. I was wanting to set up a small business web site also which I was looking to do through Mindspring. Any suggestions greatly appreciated! Thanks, Gary F&Sracer#31 Rick Sweeney <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Come on in Ron. I have mine set to 400.

On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 01:51:48 GMT, Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I'm puzzled -- at 150 mph a car travels about 220 feet/second. > >Latency is the amount that the different systems (in a race) are out of >"perfect time sync", yes? If so, 350 ms equals about 77 feet (~25 meters), >at a simulated car speed of 150 mph. 77 feet is about 4 car lengths. > >Surely this makes it difficult to have "nose to tail" racing as was >mentioned in an earlier post?? What am I missing??

I'll take a shot at that... As I understand it, each client races on his own track, so for the objects he has to deal with at such closing speeds (trackside objects, for instance), there is no latency problem. The latency comes in to the picture for car-to-car interactions, where the closing speeds are generally an order of magnitude smaller than the example you specified, so door-to-door or nose-to-tail racing is possible (at least until data is lost and you have a warp). The Papyrus prediction code helps some in making up for lost data. Where this can fall apart is when you have cars stopped (or nearly stopped) on the track (such as a big collision) and other cars closing on them at high speed. As you approach such a crash the colliding cars seem to dance around wildly and to wink in and out of sight, since their erratic movements are distorted by lagging data and the prediction code can't help much. Very much a crap shoot. It's entirely possible to "drive through" a car and emerged unharmed or, OTOH, to be knocked out of the race by a collision with an invisible car. "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

I totally agree Ron. I'm connecting from Japan and regular get a ping around 250ms but so may hosts are setting 100 - 150ms as their max latency. This is just ridiculous. I know I can have solid connects from my days on VROC and Warbirds with this ISP but many hosts are ruining it for us international racers. Come on hosts - please set realistic max latency settings. It's the quality of the connection, not the ping time that induces warping. I think 400ms is a much better setting. Darren Ron Ayton <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01bf12f9$128c3b40$0100007f@ronayton...

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> Hi, > With all the comments that have been thrown around about how we all > have to have a cable and extra low pings to be able to enjoy N3 > on-line, i thought i would post my on-line testing results i have so > far done with N3, and try to dispel a few un-truths and myths.... > > I live in Australia, and use an analogue 56k USR serial modem, which i > have capped at 26400 baud and so far, i have had dozens of warp-free > connections into USA based hosts with N3.

<lots of good stuff snipped>

>host a road circuit occasionally, they are good fun. :) > I agree. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Ron Ayton wrote: > Latencys of up to 350ms are not an issue at all, in any way, and both > cable and modem users can achieve that figure easily.. <snipped interesting material> I'm puzzled -- at 150 mph a car travels about 220 feet/second. Latency is the amount that the different systems (in a race) are out of "perfect time sync", yes? If so, 350 ms equals about 77 feet (~25 meters), at a simulated car speed of 150 mph. 77 feet is about 4 car lengths. Surely this makes it difficult to have "nose to tail" racing as was mentioned in an earlier post?? What am I missing??

Ron, I enjoyed reading your posts and admit learning some. I had a friend email me this link for tweaking cable modems and thought others may be interested. Check it out... http://www.speedguide.net/ I have a question from your posts.. I run at 1024x768 res. and don't have "many" warping problems with clients.. I also know that some of the clients have lower resolution set on there systems and everyone can turn select graphics on and off.. Does this really make a difference? I don't think that information is transmitted back and forth... I believe that the routers and unstableness if the internet is the root of our connection problem. I have had 20 cars running and watched 2 or 3 of that bunch have warp problems at exactly the same time. This tells me that those 2 or 3 are connected through the same routers at some point and that point is having the problem. (just like what you said) Hitch-Hiker Ron Ayton wrote:

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> Faster connections will have better chances at low latency, but it > will not make one bit of difference if they are losing packets or > finding bad routers on their way to the host. :) > Latencys of up to 350ms are not an issue at all, in any way, and both > cable and modem users can achieve that figure easily.. > > The guys that would be the cause of the most warping, are the ones that > are getting bad Routers on route to the host, the ones that have bad > ISP providers, the ones that are overtaxing their CPU's, the ones that > have not set up their connections properly etc etc.. > It has nothing at all to do whether a client is on cable or modem, > they both need to go through routers etc. to get to the host.. > (i know, not if they are on the same hub, but how often is that ?) > > On average, a cable client should have a lower ping than a modem > client, but latencys of up to 350 or so are not the problems, it's the > quality of the client's connections and also the way the host is > operating his machine & connection, where the problems begin. > "Yes", i did say "host", we all have to do our bit towards connection > quality, both client and host... > Sure, high latencys do cause problems, i am not going to deny that for > one minute, but i am not talking about high latencys here... > > How do we weed out bad connections ? > > We educate people on what to do with their connections... > We also try to educate hosts what damage they are doing to the on-line > community as a whole, by setting latency capping too low, because how > can we weed out bad connections and fix problems with clients having > high latencys and poorly setup connections if the clients in question > cannot join a race to sort their problems out. > Also, a lot depends on the host, how he/she has their machine set up, > if they are overtaxing their CPU, through too much eye candy, are they > running background programs etc. etc. > Good on-line play and warping issues are as much the responsibility of > the host as they are of the client. > We all need to help each other, not hide on-line problems under a low > latency capping door mat.. > I have seen hosts complain about people warping, only to find out when > questioned, that the host is running at 1024 x768, has all graphics on, > is also running background programs etc etc on a outdated CPU, and they > wonder why clients are warping. > The problems don't always start with the client.!! > Cheers, > Ron

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> Connection quality, is very important.!!! > > A lot of it, just boils down to how sensible and caring a driver is.. > Some of the drivers i have seen in N3 on-line, would not have the > ability to keep a pram on a footpath at 1 mph, let alone a car on a > track at 200 mph. <G> > Cheers, > Ron > > Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote in article > <[email hidden]>...

Oh sure just YOU try and keep that stroller down near the white line, when shocks are non-existant and the aero effects are horrendous. Plus that rear wheel steering just causes havoc when your trying to bump draft fetching Mom just ahead of you. dave henrie

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> Connection quality, is very important.!!! > > A lot of it, just boils down to how sensible and caring a driver is.. > Some of the drivers i have seen in N3 on-line, would not have the > ability to keep a pram on a footpath at 1 mph, let alone a car on a > track at 200 mph. <G> > Cheers, > Ron > > Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote in article > <[email hidden]>...

Oh sure just YOU try and keep that stroller down near the white line, when shocks are non-existant and the aero effects are horrendous. Plus that rear wheel steering just causes havoc when your trying to bump draft that fetching Mom just ahead of you. dave henrie

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> Connection quality, is very important.!!! > A lot of it, just boils down to how sensible and caring a driver is.. > Some of the drivers i have seen in N3 on-line, would not have the > ability to keep a pram on a footpath at 1 mph, let alone a car on a > track at 200 mph. <G> > Cheers, > Ron

Oh sure just YOU try and keep that stroller down near the white line, when shocks are non-existant and the aero effects are horrendous. Plus that rear wheel steering just causes havoc when your trying to bump draft fetching Mom just ahead of you. dave henrie

Bean <" bean"@westman.wave.ca> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > Hey Ron. Everything you say has great merit, but won't fasterconnections > have a better chance of low latency. If you had 100 high speedconnections > and 100 dial-up users who would be the cause of the most warping? Youseem > like a responsible online gamer and would not join a race if yourpings > were "out-of-whack" but this can't be said about everyone who joinsraces. > Question is, how to we weed out bad connections from good? > Faster connections will have better chances at low latency, but it will not make one bit of difference if they are losing packets or finding bad routers on their way to the host. :) Latencys of up to 350ms are not an issue at all, in any way, and both cable and modem users can achieve that figure easily.. The guys that would be the cause of the most warping, are the ones that are getting bad Routers on route to the host, the ones that have bad ISP providers, the ones that are overtaxing their CPU's, the ones that have not set up their connections properly etc etc.. It has nothing at all to do whether a client is on cable or modem, they both need to go through routers etc. to get to the host.. (i know, not if they are on the same hub, but how often is that ?) On average, a cable client should have a lower ping than a modem client, but latencys of up to 350 or so are not the problems, it's the quality of the client's connections and also the way the host is operating his machine & connection, where the problems begin. "Yes", i did say "host", we all have to do our bit towards connection quality, both client and host... Sure, high latencys do cause problems, i am not going to deny that for one minute, but i am not talking about high latencys here... How do we weed out bad connections ? We educate people on what to do with their connections... We also try to educate hosts what damage they are doing to the on-line community as a whole, by setting latency capping too low, because how can we weed out bad connections and fix problems with clients having high latencys and poorly setup connections if the clients in question cannot join a race to sort their problems out. Also, a lot depends on the host, how he/she has their machine set up, if they are overtaxing their CPU, through too much eye candy, are they running background programs etc. etc. Good on-line play and warping issues are as much the responsibility of the host as they are of the client. We all need to help each other, not hide on-line problems under a low latency capping door mat.. I have seen hosts complain about people warping, only to find out when questioned, that the host is running at 1024 x768, has all graphics on, is also running background programs etc etc on a outdated CPU, and they wonder why clients are warping. The problems don't always start with the client.!! Cheers, Ron

Hitch-Hiker <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > Ron, > > I enjoyed reading your posts and admit learning some. I had a friendemail > me this link for tweaking cable modems and thought others may be > interested. Check it out... http://www.speedguide.net/ > > I have a question from your posts.. I run at 1024x768 res. and don'thave > "many" warping problems with clients.. I also know that some of the > clients have lower resolution set on there systems and everyone canturn > select graphics on and off.. Does this really make a difference? Idon't > think that information is transmitted back and forth... > Hi, Yeah i remember joining a couple of your races at Taladega, where only one or two of the clients were warping, but your car was very stable to me, so presumably mine was to you as well. I will admit to you now, that my ping to you was around the 370ms, or there abouts :)) and i didn't have any warping on your host at all.. It's a good host, i tend to look for your races now.!! <G> Thanks also, for not setting a ridiculously low latency cap on your host.. You are correct in regards to the graphical information from the host is not transmitted to the client and vice versa, but what people don't take into account is that when a CPU is being pushed to it's limits, as in not being able to maintain Maximum FPS rate, then that allows less time and resources for the CPU to dedicate to the connection protocols, eg: serial port USB port etc.. If the CPU is not being pushed to it's limits, then the CPU can dedicate the full resource requirments that is required of it, to give total dedication to the communications protocols, which will allow for better on-line connections. The quality that the graphics can be sensibly set at on either a client or a host, (for on-line play) relies totally on the capacity of the CPU/Video etc. to maintain a maximum frame rate count... Cheers, Ron ps.. host a road circuit occasionally, they are good fun. :)

Hi Doug, "What are you missing" ?? Prediction code.. :) I was also sceptical about how good N3 would be on-line with pings of around 350ms or so, but i have been pleasantly surprised by the results so far. I have been doing on-line testing in N3 with a well known and dedicated N2 league, that has been going since the days of TEN's conception in Hawai and so far, the results have all been excellent.. These guys would not put up with crappy connections, and i wouldn't expect them to. !! The first time i hooked up to Won.net, myself and my friends in the USA did not really think this would be feasible, but we were all surprised by the connection quality at medium level pings. One of the drivers was actually bump drafting me at Michigan, lap after lap with no ill effects at all, and that was with my latency showing 370ms. Obviously if a driver i was following closely at 200+mph at Taladega hit the brakes unexpectantly, then no doubt at all, i would wear his rear end as a hood decoration, but i can guarantee you a client with a ping of .050ms would do exactly the same, and have the same hood decoration. Door handle to door handle racing was the same, with no ill effects or latency induced crashes at all... If some of the guys i have raced against in N3 on-line, see these posts, i am sure they will verify what i have just posted here.. Connection quality, is very important.!!! A lot of it, just boils down to how sensible and caring a driver is.. Some of the drivers i have seen in N3 on-line, would not have the ability to keep a pram on a footpath at 1 mph, let alone a car on a track at 200 mph. <G> Cheers, Ron Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > > On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Ron Ayton wrote: > > Latencys of up to 350ms are not an issue at all, in any way, andboth

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> > cable and modem users can achieve that figure easily.. > > <snipped interesting material> > > I'm puzzled -- at 150 mph a car travels about 220 feet/second. > > Latency is the amount that the different systems (in a race) are out

of > "perfect time sync", yes? If so, 350 ms equals about 77 feet (~25meters), > at a simulated car speed of 150 mph. 77 feet is about 4 car lengths. > > Surely this makes it difficult to have "nose to tail" racing as was > mentioned in an earlier post?? What am I missing?? > >

Come on in Ron. I have mine set to 400. Rick Ron Ayton wrote:

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> Hi, > With all the comments that have been thrown around about how we all > have to have a cable and extra low pings to be able to enjoy N3 > on-line, i thought i would post my on-line testing results i have so > far done with N3, and try to dispel a few un-truths and myths.... > > I live in Australia, and use an analogue 56k USR serial modem, which i > have capped at 26400 baud and so far, i have had dozens of warp-free > connections into USA based hosts with N3. > I have also had a few warpy ones, but the warpy ones i have been in, > were warpy for everyone else as well, even those with cable, not just > me. > > I have my modem capped at 26400 baud and have taken the time to setup > my on-line DUN for as good & error free as possible connections, and so > far, nearly all my on-line experiences with N3 have been as good as N3 > on-line can get.. > Normally my pings to the USA based hosts are in the region of 260 to > 400 ms and providing the host has taken steps to tune his own > connection, then that level of latency has been perfect for me from > Australia to the USA, in N3 on-line racing... > > Up untill tonight, i had not even bothered to try hosting any events, > but i gave it a try tonight, with my modem still capped at 26400 baud. > I set up a race at Michigan and also limited the ammount of people who > could join to four.. > > ( i did not set a client latency cap, nor will i ever do so ) > > Three other USA based drivers joined my race at Michigan and the > connections were as good as a lan, i kid you not.. !!! > There was NO warping at all, from any of the three clients who joined > my race, and they all said i was just as solid as they were. > One of the drivers was following me with only inches to spare between > us, at speeds over 200 mph and not once were we ever in danger of > touching, through latency issues... > This was all done through my analogue modem at 26400 baud, with me > based in Australia and the three other clients based in the USA. > The only thing i will add here, is that the clients who joined my race, > all know about on-line issues and how to fine tune their connections > etc. for on-line play. > Also, it is obvious that clients in N3, do not require more than 8800 > baud of bandwidth each, or it would have been impossible for the three > clients who did join my race to do so, seen as how i had my modem > capped at 26400 baud.. > > So, to cap this off, i now know, that a ping of up to 350 ms, from an > analogue modem can/will be perfect for N3 on-line, if steps have been > taken by the modem user to fine tune his/her DUN etc.. > I have noticed very slight warping, once my ping gets closer to 400ms, > but it is very slight and hardly noticeable to the other clients that i > have questioned in regards to my connection quality at the time.. > > So, maybe, just maybe, any N3 hosts reading this post, might try > upping their latency caps a bit to a more reasonable level, like 400ms > maximum, if they really feel they need to kid themselves that latency > capping will cure their on-line woes anyway.. > I have proved to myself, and others, that latency capping N3 below 350 > ms, or restricting clients to cable only etc.. will not cure warping, > but education on connection issues will. > > N3 has got the potential to be a good on-line sim, on an international > scale, so why do hosts insist on setting ridiculously low capping > limits on their races, that do nothing, apart from keep out > international sim racers who would like to be able to enjoy N3 > on-line... ? > The answer is simply ignorance of connection issues.!!!! > I am not being peevish etc. i am simply trying to get the message > across, that a latency of 300 to 350 ms etc. will work perfectly, in > N3 on-line, as my testing over the last 3 weeks has proven to me. > > Obviously, we can't control the routers to or from the host and client, > so there will be times when we should disconnect ourselves and try > again, but at least, i know now, that N3 on-line can work, and work as > good for a medium ping modem client as it does for a low ping cable > client. > > This can only be good news to us all, and thanks have to go out to > Papyrus for making on-line racing over an unstable medium, like the > internet, possible to us, firstly with GPL and now with N3. > The future is looking bright. :) > Cya on-line.. > Cheers, > Ron

Gee Ron you could always join in the Australian N3 fun.....I havent seen you on with us yet.. Troy >

LOL, I have been so damn busy lately, testing N3, GPL, working out simple track conversion methods etc. etc. you name it, i have been testing it lately, that i havn't even had time to practice for my GPL league races either.. ;( Besides, what is the sense of testing N3 between our connections, where my ping times to you would be around the 100ms or less, we both know that will not stress test the connection issues.... I promise as soon as i get through with the latest round of tests i am doing, i will drop in and annoy you. :))) Cheers, Ron ps look for me on Won.net, hosting under my name of an evening... Troy Rosenberg <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > Gee Ron you could always join in the Australian N3 fun.....I haventseen > you on with us yet.. > > > Troy >

Ron, I have read the entire thread to date (Oct 12th, 14:50). I am one of the ones that falls into the "Education Needed" catagory. All the information in these posts is excellent, but what's missing is "Where to get the education?" I'm not going to take a course on DUN just for N3 Online racing, but I'll invest the time to read whatever I can get my hands on to "tweak" the connection. I haven't hosted many races for fear of my connection being the source of the warping, but maybe I'll try and see what happens. I have hosted a couple but put passwords on them because I just wanted to race with some people I knew, and they were pinging at 250-300ms and the race was flawless, so your point is right on the money. Thanks for the advice to all that contributed to this thread so far. I look foward to becoming one of the educated ones. Dean Ron Ayton wrote in message <01bf12f9$128c3b40$0100007f@ronayton>...

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>Hi, >With all the comments that have been thrown around about how we all >have to have a cable and extra low pings to be able to enjoy N3 >on-line, i thought i would post my on-line testing results i have so >far done with N3, and try to dispel a few un-truths and myths.... > >I live in Australia, and use an analogue 56k USR serial modem, which i >have capped at 26400 baud and so far, i have had dozens of warp-free >connections into USA based hosts with N3. >I have also had a few warpy ones, but the warpy ones i have been in, >were warpy for everyone else as well, even those with cable, not just >me. > >I have my modem capped at 26400 baud and have taken the time to setup >my on-line DUN for as good & error free as possible connections, and so >far, nearly all my on-line experiences with N3 have been as good as N3 >on-line can get.. >Normally my pings to the USA based hosts are in the region of 260 to >400 ms and providing the host has taken steps to tune his own >connection, then that level of latency has been perfect for me from >Australia to the USA, in N3 on-line racing... > >Up untill tonight, i had not even bothered to try hosting any events, >but i gave it a try tonight, with my modem still capped at 26400 baud. >I set up a race at Michigan and also limited the ammount of people who >could join to four.. > >( i did not set a client latency cap, nor will i ever do so ) > >Three other USA based drivers joined my race at Michigan and the >connections were as good as a lan, i kid you not.. !!! >There was NO warping at all, from any of the three clients who joined >my race, and they all said i was just as solid as they were. >One of the drivers was following me with only inches to spare between >us, at speeds over 200 mph and not once were we ever in danger of >touching, through latency issues... >This was all done through my analogue modem at 26400 baud, with me >based in Australia and the three other clients based in the USA. >The only thing i will add here, is that the clients who joined my race, >all know about on-line issues and how to fine tune their connections >etc. for on-line play. >Also, it is obvious that clients in N3, do not require more than 8800 >baud of bandwidth each, or it would have been impossible for the three >clients who did join my race to do so, seen as how i had my modem >capped at 26400 baud.. > >So, to cap this off, i now know, that a ping of up to 350 ms, from an >analogue modem can/will be perfect for N3 on-line, if steps have been >taken by the modem user to fine tune his/her DUN etc.. >I have noticed very slight warping, once my ping gets closer to 400ms, >but it is very slight and hardly noticeable to the other clients that i >have questioned in regards to my connection quality at the time.. > >So, maybe, just maybe, any N3 hosts reading this post, might try >upping their latency caps a bit to a more reasonable level, like 400ms >maximum, if they really feel they need to kid themselves that latency >capping will cure their on-line woes anyway.. >I have proved to myself, and others, that latency capping N3 below 350 >ms, or restricting clients to cable only etc.. will not cure warping, >but education on connection issues will. > >N3 has got the potential to be a good on-line sim, on an international >scale, so why do hosts insist on setting ridiculously low capping >limits on their races, that do nothing, apart from keep out >international sim racers who would like to be able to enjoy N3 >on-line... ? >The answer is simply ignorance of connection issues.!!!! >I am not being peevish etc. i am simply trying to get the message >across, that a latency of 300 to 350 ms etc. will work perfectly, in >N3 on-line, as my testing over the last 3 weeks has proven to me. > >Obviously, we can't control the routers to or from the host and client, >so there will be times when we should disconnect ourselves and try >again, but at least, i know now, that N3 on-line can work, and work as >good for a medium ping modem client as it does for a low ping cable >client. > >This can only be good news to us all, and thanks have to go out to >Papyrus for making on-line racing over an unstable medium, like the >internet, possible to us, firstly with GPL and now with N3. >The future is looking bright. :) >Cya on-line.. >Cheers, >Ron >