Re: N4 Wish list

This is by far one of the best list for N4 I have seen....not the usual GPL Physics noise. How about adding real qualifying to the game. So your season can have 50 drivers but not everyone qualifies for each race. And, need we forget the AI work that needs to be done so drivers don't stop on the track when someone slows or crashes in front of them. Tracey Hicks <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Is there a focus group for N4 that takes dedicated players and asks them > what they would like to see done for the next release?? You know like > what they do with Car design at GM and ford. Well anyways here is more > of my two cents worth. > > How bout sand traps at the road courses and that cut off road actually a > cut off road. > > Also how bout an actual victory lane where you can pull up and celebrate > a long hard effort instead of just going back to windows or into the > next race. > > And a moving pit crew is nice along with a actual pit board that they > hold down adn you stop at instead of guessing (i have trouble getting it > right) > > I like the weather thoery, that would be great, and add great stragedy > > Also red flags would be great, and how bout track damage, like broken > catch fences when someone FLIPS (another hopeful) and wall repair (those > that watch NASCAR remember Jeff Burton at sears point through the wall, > and buckshot at dover > > Also, i know that at some tracks cautions are thrown for an ambulance > having to cross the track (ones without tunnels) to take a driver or > spectator to the hospital > > How bout actual problems, like maybe a cut tire that rips off the fender > of the car, or overheating, or debris, and how bout visible stay dry > that acts like dust > > And something that should be added that is fairly new is a No Bull 5 > where they inform you if your in the running and you can paint your > spoiler and air dam > > > >

Ok Heres My n4 wish (WILL NEVER HAPPEN) 1: Dirty cars during race 2: Weather conditions like rain and fog and stuff 3:RED FLAGS that really pisses me off 4:FLIPS thre needs to be flips 5: Diff bodies like chevy ford and pontiac dont look the same and have the same body 6: Track Damage like bodines crash they needed to repair the fence 7: realistic crowd instead of scriibles for the crowd texture 8: Better Damage model like when you get T-Boned you get side damage and IF YOU FLIP you would get roof damage 9: 1st and 2nd round qualifying 10: provisinal system lets hope to get that 11: 50+ cars qualifying 12: A victory lane and driving to the garage that gets annoying 13: Sparks when you bottom out your hear but not see Now i know this will probably never happen in N4 or N5 but maybe N6 hey lets see and i cant wait

Is there a focus group for N4 that takes dedicated players and asks them what they would like to see done for the next release?? You know like what they do with Car design at GM and ford. Well anyways here is more of my two cents worth. How bout sand traps at the road courses and that cut off road actually a cut off road. Also how bout an actual victory lane where you can pull up and celebrate a long hard effort instead of just going back to windows or into the next race. And a moving pit crew is nice along with a actual pit board that they hold down adn you stop at instead of guessing (i have trouble getting it right) I like the weather thoery, that would be great, and add great stragedy Also red flags would be great, and how bout track damage, like broken catch fences when someone FLIPS (another hopeful) and wall repair (those that watch NASCAR remember Jeff Burton at sears point through the wall, and buckshot at dover Also, i know that at some tracks cautions are thrown for an ambulance having to cross the track (ones without tunnels) to take a driver or spectator to the hospital How bout actual problems, like maybe a cut tire that rips off the fender of the car, or overheating, or debris, and how bout visible stay dry that acts like dust And something that should be added that is fairly new is a No Bull 5 where they inform you if your in the running and you can paint your spoiler and air dam

If only the builders of one of our favortie games would have not been deaf we would have a hell of a sim game SlipStream wrote:

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> This is by far one of the best list for N4 I have seen....not the usual GPL > Physics noise. > > How about adding real qualifying to the game. So your season can have 50 > drivers but not everyone qualifies for each race. > > And, need we forget the AI work that needs to be done so drivers don't stop > on the track when someone slows or crashes in front of them. > > Tracey Hicks <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Is there a focus group for N4 that takes dedicated players and asks them > > what they would like to see done for the next release?? You know like > > what they do with Car design at GM and ford. Well anyways here is more > > of my two cents worth. > > > > How bout sand traps at the road courses and that cut off road actually a > > cut off road. > > > > Also how bout an actual victory lane where you can pull up and celebrate > > a long hard effort instead of just going back to windows or into the > > next race. > > > > And a moving pit crew is nice along with a actual pit board that they > > hold down adn you stop at instead of guessing (i have trouble getting it > > right) > > > > I like the weather thoery, that would be great, and add great stragedy > > > > Also red flags would be great, and how bout track damage, like broken > > catch fences when someone FLIPS (another hopeful) and wall repair (those > > that watch NASCAR remember Jeff Burton at sears point through the wall, > > and buckshot at dover > > > > Also, i know that at some tracks cautions are thrown for an ambulance > > having to cross the track (ones without tunnels) to take a driver or > > spectator to the hospital > > > > How bout actual problems, like maybe a cut tire that rips off the fender > > of the car, or overheating, or debris, and how bout visible stay dry > > that acts like dust > > > > And something that should be added that is fairly new is a No Bull 5 > > where they inform you if your in the running and you can paint your > > spoiler and air dam > > > > > > > >

Hi, My nascar dream sim (hopefully N4) would have: 1: Large fields - allows us to add more than 43 cars to the car list. -- The follwoing options could have toggles for novice users -- 4: Real qualitying - 1st and 2nd round 2: Good provisionals system - so you have to work to get into the field 3: Timed Practice sessions - only so much time to get things done (doing things to the car during practice could take time, like changing a gear ratio, etc.) 4: Ability for AI to do neat pit strategy - allows the AI to take on 2 tires at the end, gamble on fuel, etc. 5: Damage on the track - ability to cut down a tire because 6: Sun glare/dirty windsheild 7: good career mode Of course if all of this get done, we would have to wait until 2020 to see it! (let's see, 19 years and 10 months to go... :) ) Later, John

I wish Sierra/Papyrus would wise up and put brightness/gamma adjustments in thier sims. No two video cards/monitors are the same. Other games have them. Why not Papy sims? Jim

You guys have some great ideas without a doubt and I agree on most everything, especially the chances of the car rolling over during a wreck, or even flipping and cartwheeling, etc. Off the top of my head, a quick list... 1. I agree on the better career mode. Maybe do one like how MGPRS2 has in a way. Where you get picked up by a team at random who needs a driver. Then depending on how well you do, or poorly you do over a season, several seasons even, then you could get picked up by bigger/better teams, or relegated to begging a ride with a poor team if you do poorly over a couple seasons, hehe. Or even demoted to Busch or Truck series to either ressurect your nagging career, or to finish out your career if you last long enough to be a crusty (crafty?) veteran, hehe. Kinda like how the Soccer management sims do. I adore those sims, lol. Do great over a season, or several, and the chairmen reward you with the accolades and "great job mate, well done!" type pats on the backs, to the struggling through a poor season, coaching poorly, or getting your club relegated to the next lower division cause you sucked as a coach and deserved the demotion to the lower leagues, lol, then the chairmen are ready to sack you if you don't get 'spot on' in a hurry, or sack you outright, then you're left to hope some club somewhere will give you a chance to prove yourself with their team, hehe. Just think, that would be killer in a Nascar sim. Or get even more in depth for the purists. Maybe have you start out in busch or truck series to prove yourself, then move up to the next level when one of the cup teams take notice of you. And leave it up to user choice where they want to start their career at, for those that don't want to go through the busch series, then have the option to start right out in the Cup as an established rookie from a lesser race series, or whatever. And add-in the little things like the possibility of winning "Rookie of the Year" honors if you do great your first season out. And not just track your current season statitistics, but go further and track your CAREER stats, hehe. That way when you reach the "retirement screen", hehe, whether it's by a long glorious career, or by breaking more bones than evel knevel in a first turn wreck at some point in your career. (This would entice more clean drivers I think, lol) Anyways, when you reach "retirement" by whatever reason, then have it in the game where you could possibly make the Nascar Hall Of Fame or something, where it could forever keep a listing for you of that career along with career stats, virtual money winnings, maybe some highlights from some spectacular racing or a scrapbook type thing showing the race newspaper screens for races you won, or championships you won, etc, etc. I'd love seeing all that stuff, hehe. Ummm. dang I got long-winded, lol. 2. Add more damage type things like some have said. I like how in TOCA2 it has all the interesting effects of damage showing on the car. Maybe somehow get that level of damage visibility into Nascar 4. I'm sure if you impact a wall hard enough, your windshield will blow out somehow. TOCA2 has that, i know for a fact, lol, I hit the wall enough times to have saved replays where I can watch the windsheild not only shatter, but fly off of the car and scatter around on the track or grass/dirt areas, lol. That's the one consolation I get when I wreck out, lol, can always watch the cool replays and see the damage inflicted, frame by merciless frame. :o) Only time you see your windshield blowout in N3 is if you watch the replay from the in-car view, and then you only know you lost your windshield because the view ahead goes from being a greyish filtered look to suddenly a bright and crispy true color look. Surprisingly, it's the same colorful look when you're in the drivers seat while racing, lol. No windshield for the drivers side of the car? Or is that the camera lense that "shatters"?? Well, i'm pooped, so that's enough for now, hehe. Destin Tony StewartNo20 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ok Heres My n4 wish (WILL NEVER HAPPEN) > 1: Dirty cars during race > 2: Weather conditions like rain and fog and stuff > 3:RED FLAGS that really pisses me off > 4:FLIPS thre needs to be flips > 5: Diff bodies like chevy ford and pontiac dont look the same and have thesame > body > 6: Track Damage like bodines crash they needed to repair the fence > 7: realistic crowd instead of scriibles for the crowd texture > 8: Better Damage model like when you get T-Boned you get side damage andIF

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> YOU FLIP you would get roof damage > 9: 1st and 2nd round qualifying > 10: provisinal system lets hope to get that > 11: 50+ cars qualifying > 12: A victory lane and driving to the garage that gets annoying > 13: Sparks when you bottom out your hear but not see > > Now i know this will probably never happen in N4 or N5 but maybe N6 hey

lets > see and i cant wait

OH I LEFT THIS ONE OUT how bout stickers tires or scuff tires that you could prepare in practice and run in the race to adjust your setup

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> You guys have some great ideas without a doubt and I agree on most > everything, especially the chances of the car rolling over during a wreck, > or even flipping and cartwheeling, etc. > > Off the top of my head, a quick list... > > 1. I agree on the better career mode. Maybe do one like how MGPRS2 has in a > way. Where you get picked up by a team at random who needs a driver. Then > depending on how well you do, or poorly you do over a season, several > seasons even, then you could get picked up by bigger/better teams, or > relegated to begging a ride with a poor team if you do poorly over a couple > seasons, hehe. Or even demoted to Busch or Truck series to either ressurect > your nagging career, or to finish out your career if you last long enough to > be a crusty (crafty?) veteran, hehe. Kinda like how the Soccer management > sims do. I adore those sims, lol. Do great over a season, or several, and > the chairmen reward you with the accolades and "great job mate, well done!" > type pats on the backs, to the struggling through a poor season, coaching > poorly, or getting your club relegated to the next lower division cause you > sucked as a coach and deserved the demotion to the lower leagues, lol, then > the chairmen are ready to sack you if you don't get 'spot on' in a hurry, or > sack you outright, then you're left to hope some club somewhere will give > you a chance to prove yourself with their team, hehe. Just think, that would > be killer in a Nascar sim. Or get even more in depth for the purists. Maybe > have you start out in busch or truck series to prove yourself, then move up > to the next level when one of the cup teams take notice of you. And leave it > up to user choice where they want to start their career at, for those that > don't want to go through the busch series, then have the option to start > right out in the Cup as an established rookie from a lesser race series, or > whatever. And add-in the little things like the possibility of winning > "Rookie of the Year" honors if you do great your first season out. And not > just track your current season statitistics, but go further and track your > CAREER stats, hehe. That way when you reach the "retirement screen", hehe, > whether it's by a long glorious career, or by breaking more bones than evel > knevel in a first turn wreck at some point in your career. (This would > entice more clean drivers I think, lol) Anyways, when you reach "retirement" > by whatever reason, then have it in the game where you could possibly make > the Nascar Hall Of Fame or something, where it could forever keep a listing > for you of that career along with career stats, virtual money winnings, > maybe some highlights from some spectacular racing or a scrapbook type thing > showing the race newspaper screens for races you won, or championships you > won, etc, etc. I'd love seeing all that stuff, hehe. > > Ummm. dang I got long-winded, lol. > > 2. Add more damage type things like some have said. I like how in TOCA2 it > has all the interesting effects of damage showing on the car. Maybe somehow > get that level of damage visibility into Nascar 4. I'm sure if you impact a > wall hard enough, your windshield will blow out somehow. TOCA2 has that, i > know for a fact, lol, I hit the wall enough times to have saved replays > where I can watch the windsheild not only shatter, but fly off of the car > and scatter around on the track or grass/dirt areas, lol. That's the one > consolation I get when I wreck out, lol, can always watch the cool replays > and see the damage inflicted, frame by merciless frame. :o) Only time you > see your windshield blowout in N3 is if you watch the replay from the in-car > view, and then you only know you lost your windshield because the view ahead > goes from being a greyish filtered look to suddenly a bright and crispy true > color look. Surprisingly, it's the same colorful look when you're in the > drivers seat while racing, lol. No windshield for the drivers side of the > car? Or is that the camera lense that "shatters"?? > > Well, i'm pooped, so that's enough for now, hehe. > > Destin > > Tony StewartNo20 <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Ok Heres My n4 wish (WILL NEVER HAPPEN) > > 1: Dirty cars during race > > 2: Weather conditions like rain and fog and stuff > > 3:RED FLAGS that really pisses me off > > 4:FLIPS thre needs to be flips > > 5: Diff bodies like chevy ford and pontiac dont look the same and have the > same > > body > > 6: Track Damage like bodines crash they needed to repair the fence > > 7: realistic crowd instead of scriibles for the crowd texture > > 8: Better Damage model like when you get T-Boned you get side damage and > IF > > YOU FLIP you would get roof damage > > 9: 1st and 2nd round qualifying > > 10: provisinal system lets hope to get that > > 11: 50+ cars qualifying > > 12: A victory lane and driving to the garage that gets annoying > > 13: Sparks when you bottom out your hear but not see > > > > Now i know this will probably never happen in N4 or N5 but maybe N6 hey > lets > > see and i cant wait

I would like to see a configurable Crew Chief. Before a race, you may preselect pitstop defaults. like, IF theres less than a full tanks worth of laps remaining THEN put in just enough to finish. The current amount suggested to make it to the end in way too conservative. IF I choose only right side tires THEN also increase wedge by 5 pounds And we could override the auto changes in the normal manner that we do now. -- Kenny L. kenny_l AT pacbell DOT net

: I wish Sierra/Papyrus would wise up and put brightness/gamma : adjustments in thier sims. No two video cards/monitors are the same. : Other games have them. Why not Papy sims? Absolutely seconded.... I got a new monitor last week - I have known for some time that my monitor is waaaay too dark but I hadn't realised how much of a problem it was until I got a new one. Little things like the track at Kyalami is a kind of blue-grey - not black. Previously, at most corners at Kya and Rouen (two of my real bogey tracks) the racing line was simply invisible... Not too much of a problem you might think - except for the fact that in GPL most of the braking markers are "where the racing line goes dark" or "goes light" or shortly before or after such points. I was able to top my best laps at these circuits simply by having a monitor which allowed me to fix consistent braking points. If the papy games had a gamma slider I'd have found this out about a year ago instead of now. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > That's probably my biggest problem. I just can't *see* the grooveclearly, or > the line between the track and the dirt/grass. Spa and Silverstone seemto be > the worst, although Rouen isn't far off...<sigh> If I may suggest, turning off the groove helped me in the early months. I found it so much easier to drive the track without trying to drive that skinny little "rail". I turned it back on much later and, with only a few exceptions, found I was pretty close to the groove anyway. But it sounds like you're doing this already. :-) Michael.

In article <89lkqv$2bi$[email hidden]>, Richard G Clegg <[email hidden]> writes:

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>[email hidden] wrote: >: I wish Sierra/Papyrus would wise up and put brightness/gamma >: adjustments in thier sims. No two video cards/monitors are the same. >: Other games have them. Why not Papy sims? > > Absolutely seconded.... I got a new monitor last week - I have known >for some time that my monitor is waaaay too dark but I hadn't realised >how much of a problem it was until I got a new one. Little things like >the track at Kyalami is a kind of blue-grey - not black. >

Really? I didn't know that...

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> Previously, at most corners at Kya and Rouen (two of my real bogey >tracks) the racing line was simply invisible... Not too much of a >problem you might think - except for the fact that in GPL most of the >braking markers are "where the racing line goes dark" or "goes light" or >shortly before or after such points. I was able to top my best laps at >these circuits simply by having a monitor which allowed me to fix >consistent braking points. If the papy games had a gamma slider I'd >have found this out about a year ago instead of now.

That's probably my biggest problem. I just can't *see* the groove clearly, or the line between the track and the dirt/grass. Spa and Silverstone seem to be the worst, although Rouen isn't far off...<sigh> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

:> Absolutely seconded.... I got a new monitor last week - I have known :>for some time that my monitor is waaaay too dark but I hadn't realised :>how much of a problem it was until I got a new one. Little things like :>the track at Kyalami is a kind of blue-grey - not black. :> : Really? I didn't know that... Sounds like you have something of the same problem Eldred. If you fid that distant cars at Kya are getting lost in the track (coz they're black and so is the track) then your monitor is too dark. Up the brightness of your monitor if you can or try to borrow a new monitor to see if it helps. : That's probably my biggest problem. I just can't *see* the groove clearly, or : the line between the track and the dirt/grass. Spa and Silverstone seem to be : the worst, although Rouen isn't far off...<sigh> It's not seeing the groove that's so bad (after all, you can easily work out where the groove should be) - it's seeing the gradations in colour on the groove which are useful brake markers. Spa has some nightmarish bits but not too many for darkness and the same with Rouen. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

IMHO, if you wanna run well in traffic, you can't rely on braking points on the track surface, since they will often be obsured by other cars. Try and pick brake markers that are clearly visible regardless of traffic, use scenery, trees, sign posts, whatever. Eventually, you get to the point where you can keep your eyes on the traffic and the course itself, and the markers will register in your peripheral vision as you approach/pass them. Doug

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> That might work for someMichael. Personally, I find that there are too many > braking points laid on the deck. > MS > > > That's probably my biggest problem. I just can't *see* the groove > > clearly, or > > > the line between the track and the dirt/grass. Spa and Silverstone seem > > to be > > > the worst, although Rouen isn't far off...<sigh> > > If I may suggest, turning off the groove helped me in the early months. I > > found it so much easier to drive the track without trying to drive that > > skinny little "rail". I turned it back on much later and, with only a few > > exceptions, found I was pretty close to the groove anyway. But it sounds > > like you're doing this already. :-) > > Michael.

You're still using brakes at Spa? :-) Come to think of it, only La Source requires threshold braking. There's a handy distance marker on the right coming out of Blanchimont. A few heartbeats past that is the brake point for the passing line. Granted, you should see about fixing the monitor brightness, if only for the eye candy and the experience. I really would suggest turning off the groove, though, to force you to acquire different braking markers. I'm in a bit of a bind at Rouen's Scierie when I pass in the braking zone. Rouen is one of the tracks that I didn't run with the groove off. I'm eyeing the cars on the left, and trying to see if, when, and where the groove starts to show underneath them. And then it's still a few more heartbeats away; quite a few more, actually. There's a reason why those cars are being lapped, and why there's a pileup collecting behind them. I wouldn't use them as a reliable brake marker either. The worst habit is to use the corner worker as a marker. There's a flagman at the mid point of Rindt Kurve at O'ring that I use to gauge how well I'm taking it. In real life, I suppose they might move around. :-) Michael.

If for no other reason than to cause a shunt to liven up their afternoon I expect:) Chris * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Is it just the Voodoo2 1000 that adds the gamma correction controls to the display properties dialog? GPL was certainly quite dim the first time I fired it off after installing the Voodoo, but I went to the screen properties, selected the Voodoo tab, linked all the Gamma s and ran them up to the mid-point. Made all the difference in the world and now all looks as I would expect it too. Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

I'm using a TNT2 and gpl is to dark if I have my monitors brightness set to 50-60%, which is best for most things. I crank brightness up to 90% for gpl. It's easier to do with the monitors front panel controls than to get into the screen properties everytime. I had the same problem with Quake 1 and 2, but at least you could correct gamma in the game. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

That might work for someMichael. Personally, I find that there are too many braking points laid on the deck. MS "Michael Young" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > That's probably my biggest problem. I just can't *see* the groove > clearly, or > > the line between the track and the dirt/grass. Spa and Silverstone seem > to be > > the worst, although Rouen isn't far off...<sigh> > > If I may suggest, turning off the groove helped me in the early months. I > found it so much easier to drive the track without trying to drive that > skinny little "rail". I turned it back on much later and, with only a few > exceptions, found I was pretty close to the groove anyway. But it sounds > like you're doing this already. :-) > > Michael. > > >

Richard G Clegg <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:89r8rb$5h9$[email hidden]... > EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: > : In article <89lkqv$2bi$[email hidden]>, Richard G Clegg<[email hidden]>

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> : writes: > > :> Absolutely seconded.... I got a new monitor last week - I have known > :>for some time that my monitor is waaaay too dark but I hadn't realised > :>how much of a problem it was until I got a new one. Little things like > :>the track at Kyalami is a kind of blue-grey - not black. > :> > : Really? I didn't know that... > > Sounds like you have something of the same problem Eldred. If you fid > that distant cars at Kya are getting lost in the track (coz they're > black and so is the track) then your monitor is too dark. Up the > brightness of your monitor if you can or try to borrow a new monitor to > see if it helps. > > : That's probably my biggest problem. I just can't *see* the groove

clearly, or > : the line between the track and the dirt/grass. Spa and Silverstone seemto be > : the worst, although Rouen isn't far off...<sigh> > > It's not seeing the groove that's so bad (after all, you can easily > work out where the groove should be) - it's seeing the gradations in > colour on the groove which are useful brake markers. Spa has some > nightmarish bits but not too many for darkness and the same with Rouen. I've had the same brightness problem with my Voodoo3 3000 AGP card. I simply changed the all 3 gamma settings to 1.30. Joel Willstein [email hidden]

Michael, in real life there are zillions more natural roadside features to use as positioning references. Go for a drive along a country road that you are familiar with; you won't use people as braking markers, mate! :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

writes: I brake at SEVERAL points at Spa. That's probably why I'm still at 3:29...... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I have a V3, and tried those controls. It didn't seem to help much... Maybe it's just my monitor. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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>IMHO, if you wanna run well in traffic, you can't rely on braking points on >the >track surface, since they will often be obsured by other cars. Try and pick >brake markers that are clearly visible regardless of traffic, use scenery, >trees, sign posts, whatever. Eventually, you get to the point where you can >keep your eyes on the traffic and the course itself, and the markers will >register in your peripheral vision as you approach/pass them. > Doug

Yeah, I've mention that here before. I have certain brake markers, some on the track. At silverstone, more are on the track. So, when I'm following another car, I can't see the marker until AFTER the other car has passed over it - which is now too late for me to make the turn. And if I'm off the racing line, I can't see the groove anyway(I found that out the HARD way...). I just don't have enough markers on the side of the track. I must have my detail turned down too much, but I *have* to in order to run the game smoothly...<sigh> Eldred - who needs an Athlon 800 to be able to see the track with a high resolution... -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

3:29...... All kidding aside now... Yes, brakes are important at Spa. I mention La Source only because it's more like most other tracks: the ideal braking point is pretty rigid. The other corners, though, don't benefit from threshold braking and are quite a bit "softer" in that sense. I find the darkness of the groove is useless as braking points. I'm still at 3:21 at Spa, so I'm not the expert. In spite of the talk otherwise: Brake at Haute de la Cote roughly halfway to the top. This is uphill as at all other critical areas at Spa. Speed is about 155 coming up the hill; squeeze the brakes to bring it to about 115 at turn in, and slightly less than neutral throttle slows you to 92 mph at apex, and then smoothly transition back to full throttle as you clear the embankment. Threshold braking isn't required; in fact, it's harmful to the car's balance. The transition from gas to brake, and then back on the gas needs to be as smooth as you can make it. (Slower is faster.) Malmedy is also uphill; a controlled squeeze drops your speed from 167 to 118, and then you hold neutral throttle, slowing to about 112 at apex on the first right. The braking point is right before the entrance to the left hander, and a gentle squeeze is all you need. You might call it trail braking, but it's more a matter of holding balance while braking through the entire turn. Masta, Stavelot, and Cottage are taken without brakes. Cottage slows you from 180 to 132. Again, balance and control are more important than stopping power. Like Malmedy and la Cote, the brakes really aren't on all the way to apex; I'm done braking before or as I cross the road crown. Again, turning action and less than neutral throttle accounts for the rest of the speed loss. A gentle turn in and throttle for balance is more important here than late braking. You don't need much brakes to begin with. Entrance to Blanchimont is almost threshold braking, and a light amount of trail braking helps. Approach speed is 192, slowing to 126 at apex. Even though the approach and braking zone is flat or slightly downhill, the brake point is much much deeper than you might think from looking at the groove. Threshold braking is useful on the straight, transitioning smoothly (key word!) to trail braking and a gentle turn-in. Apex is about half a tire width inside off the pavement, and you can be back *** the gas about the time the straight braking AI starts to turn in. Exit from Blanchimont, onto the straight leading to La Source, is a slight lift on turn in, and then flat again. Approach speed is 178, slowing to 164 before the engine can overpower the scrubbing through the turn. A brief full throttle blast gets you back up to 174, a quick 3 count past the distance marker on the right, and then real threshold braking down to 58 mph at turn in for La Source, trail braking and scrubbing down to 44 at apex. I use first gear coming out, and need to be real careful about tire spin on exit. I can't tell the difference in lap times using 2nd gear, but I'm more used to the engine sound for speed cues in first. I pick up oodles of time through Blanchimont, more than a full second over the AI. The wide line leading up to La Source is perfect for setting up a braking pass. I bank on this as I come up on traffic coming out of Stavelot. From here, no brakes again until la Cote. Eau Rouge can be a bit of sloppy ***shoot for me. A half lift at the bottom crossing the bridge helps settle the car and slow it just a little for the right hand, down into third for the uphill run. Hold somewhat neutral throttle until you're almost at apex, and then flat out to a slight lift for the left hand turnin. I like to get the inside tires all the way off on the inside at this blind apex. Any wider, and I have to lift to avoid drifting off the right side on track out. My exit speed here is about 10 mph faster than the AI, but it just almost makes up for my slower speed through the right hander at the bottom. I'm usually caught up and possibly passing by the time we get to la Cote. As tracks go, Spa responds well to setups that favor ever so slight understeer at neutral throttle. I substitute light engine braking for trail braking through the fast corners, and the balance has to be very close to neutral when I feather the gas heading toward the apex. Trail throttle tends toward oversteer, so the car balance for slight understeer makes up for this. It feels like neutral throttle as you drive the track, but replays show that the car continues to slow even past the gas on point. I attribute this to scrubbing, and it doesn't alleviate until I start to unwind the wheel. So, it's not really just the gas-on point that matters, you also need to be unwinding the wheel to accelerate out of high speed turns. Cottage and the last of Blanchimont, maybe even Stavelot, come to mind as examples. 3:29 is a tough row to hoe. I recall when 3:40 felt like an accomplishment. Maybe that last might be enough to help you off this plateau, and on to the next one. While braking points are important, they are far less so than getting back up to speed on the long, long straights at Spa. You need to unload the steering to get this to happen. No matter how else it might feel at this point, you're losing time if you're doing anything but unwinding when the gas starts to go back down. Work on getting to this point by having a balanced car at apex. This requires a good smooth entrance, even if you sacrifice the brake point a little for now. That will almost fix itself soon enough. I'm willing to bet you can get down to 3:25 in a week if you work diligently on the exits, not the brake points (in a balanced car, of course. :-) Michael.

Joel Willstein <[email hidden]> wrote: : Richard G Clegg <[email hidden]> wrote in message :> :> It's not seeing the groove that's so bad (after all, you can easily :> work out where the groove should be) - it's seeing the gradations in :> colour on the groove which are useful brake markers. Spa has some :> nightmarish bits but not too many for darkness and the same with Rouen. : I've had the same brightness problem with my Voodoo3 3000 AGP card. I : simply changed the all 3 gamma settings to 1.30. Spent an age fiddling with the gamma settings - they didn't change anything on any 3dfx accelerated game (yes I did set the correct settings) - I never did find a fix for it except to buy a new monitor. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Michael Young <[email hidden]> wrote: : The worst habit is to use the corner worker as a marker. There's a flagman : at the mid point of Rindt Kurve at O'ring that I use to gauge how well I'm : taking it. In real life, I suppose they might move around. :-) Apparently this once happend to a real GP driver (I think it wasn't in an F1 race) - he was using a member of the crowd as a brake marker and the person moved! (Wonder if one of the "old timers" can provide more details of who and when). -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Mike/Eldred, The v2 and v3 of the Glide drivers has nothing to do with the card version, it's the Glide version. GPL uses Glide v2, and so you need that file whether you have a Voodoo 1, 2 or 3. However, there does appear to be different version of the Glide files for each card type (I remember a file from a Banshee driver set not working on my Voodoo 2), so be aware that simply copying the latest one will not necessarily work unless it is for your particular card type. Hope this helps. Cheers, Steve.