Has anything replaced GPL yet?

Hello all, I've been away from racing sims for a few years now. I used to spend quite a bit of seat time in GPL and NASCAR online racing. Has anything replaced GPL yet? Now after about 2 years of being away, I'm getting the itch to re-install my old GPL and NASCAR stuff on my new machine (Dell 8400 3GHz PCI-EXPRESS, XP) and dig up my old Thomas Wheel/Pedals (replace or clean a few pots I bet). Is VROC still going strong? Still a lot of people racing? What "new" sims out there (and coming soon) give the most GPL like experience for online and stand alone? Should I just forget all new sims and just crank up GPL and go searching for new add-ons? Thanks in advance, -GR

> Has anything replaced GPL yet? No. rms

You just have to wait for Racing Legends ;-) -- Andi. Remove only one zero to reply "rms" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0CDyd.2609$[email hidden]... > > Has anything replaced GPL yet? > > No. > > rms > >

"Gary Robinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Has anything replaced GPL yet? Not replaced direcly, but there is quite a bit more choice in the 'hardcore sim' world so you should find plenty to choose from. > Is VROC still going strong? Still a lot of people racing? gpl is still going, vroc is alave & well but not as busy as 2 yrs ago, partly because we also have iGOR & the '65 mod too now which splits the community a little. > What "new" sims out there (and coming soon) give the most GPL like > experience for online and stand alone? For online NR2003 & it's various mods is king right now, gpl is still up there with the best in online terms, but EA F1 titles & the newly released GTR (based on a similar game engine) have improved their online ability to the point where it is now tolerable. lfs (Live for Speed) also has excellent online code & is well worth a look. > Should I just forget all new sims and just crank up GPL and go > searching for new add-ons? As your first port of call I'd say so, the '65 mod is worth trying & the '67 GPLEA cars are real beauties (all of them now). NR2003 & it's mods would be your next best port of call because you'll quickly familiarise yourself with it if you are used to gpl. hth, Malc.

http://www.gtr-game.com/index.php?page=frontpage0 http://www.theuspits.com/sims/index.html - NR2003 PWF Mod http://www.theuspits.com/sims/nascar_racing/tptcc-download.html "Gary Robinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hello all, > > I've been away from racing sims for a few years now. > I used to spend quite a bit of seat time in GPL and NASCAR online > racing. > > Has anything replaced GPL yet? > Now after about 2 years of being away, I'm getting the itch to > re-install my old GPL and NASCAR stuff on my new machine (Dell 8400 > 3GHz PCI-EXPRESS, XP) and dig up my old Thomas Wheel/Pedals (replace > or clean a few pots I bet). > > Is VROC still going strong? Still a lot of people racing? > > What "new" sims out there (and coming soon) give the most GPL like > experience for online and stand alone? > > Should I just forget all new sims and just crank up GPL and go > searching for new add-ons? > > Thanks in advance, > > -GR > >

No. GPL still rules as number one simulator. All this other junk is based on EA F1 2002 crap physics. GTR is lame. Go ahead and re-install GPL, it's still king. "Gary Robinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hello all, > > I've been away from racing sims for a few years now. > I used to spend quite a bit of seat time in GPL and NASCAR online > racing. > > Has anything replaced GPL yet? > Now after about 2 years of being away, I'm getting the itch to > re-install my old GPL and NASCAR stuff on my new machine (Dell 8400 > 3GHz PCI-EXPRESS, XP) and dig up my old Thomas Wheel/Pedals (replace > or clean a few pots I bet). > > Is VROC still going strong? Still a lot of people racing? > > What "new" sims out there (and coming soon) give the most GPL like > experience for online and stand alone? > > Should I just forget all new sims and just crank up GPL and go > searching for new add-ons? > > Thanks in advance, > > -GR > >

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:32:15 GMT, "Alastair Ingram" <[email hidden]> wrote: >No. GPL still rules as number one simulator. All this other junk is based on >EA F1 2002 crap physics. GTR is lame. Go ahead and re-install GPL, it's >still king. Umm, NR2003 isn't. When you consider that NR and its mods have a better tire model (and tire wear), and several other improvements over GPL, I really don't understand why people keep touting GPL as being the best sim in terms of realism. Now it is true that the NR mods have idiosyncracies of their own (like the imbalanced tires), and the road course mods don't exactly sim their respective series (330's do have too much grip), but I'd say they are better now than GPL overall. John DiFool

Before collapsing in a drunken stupor Gary Robinson <[email hidden]> managed to mumble the following:

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> Hello all, > > I've been away from racing sims for a few years now. > I used to spend quite a bit of seat time in GPL and NASCAR > online racing. > > Has anything replaced GPL yet? > Now after about 2 years of being away, I'm getting the itch to > re-install my old GPL and NASCAR stuff on my new machine (Dell > 8400 3GHz PCI-EXPRESS, XP) and dig up my old Thomas > Wheel/Pedals (replace or clean a few pots I bet). > > Is VROC still going strong? Still a lot of people racing? > > What "new" sims out there (and coming soon) give the most GPL > like experience for online and stand alone? > > Should I just forget all new sims and just crank up GPL and go > searching for new add-ons? > > Thanks in advance, > > -GR > >

GTR has replaced GPL in my opinion. It features the 2003 FIA GT season. Based on a mod SimBin made for F1 2002, the full game is based on the ISI's engine. In my mind it's the best currently available. rFactor by ISI is also available, though only in an online multiplayer beta at the moment. It's main focus is user customization rather than one particular racing series. Yes, I too hated ISI's past efforts. SCGT was fun for a while until I discoverd GPL. Never played it again. F1 2001 was garbage, GP3 was better. Never payed any attention to F1 2002 since it's predecessor was so bad. Tried F1 Challenge and it was pretty good, but still not as good as Papyrus' games. I think SimBin is making real progress with ISI's old code and ISI itself is steadily improving it's own stuff so as to really de-throne Papy as the king of sim makers. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- | Morgan V. Wooten | | [email hidden] |

> really don't understand why people keep touting GPL as being >the best sim in terms of realism Maybe not in terms of realism but for some reason I consistantly find better wheel-to-wheel RACING in my GPL leagues then I have in my NR based ones. Quite likely it's due to some inherit lack of realism. ;)

GTR is far and away the best game going right now. Those that say it's another ISI game flatly haven't played it. It's a great sim and leaps and bounds ahead of GPL in virtually every way. Multi code is fantastic as well, these guys don't have a clue because they are just the ISI bashers. Get yourself a copy and enjoy the supercars and tracks. Chad "nrvsreck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Before collapsing in a drunken stupor Gary Robinson > <[email hidden]> managed to mumble the following: > >> Hello all, >> >> I've been away from racing sims for a few years now. >> I used to spend quite a bit of seat time in GPL and NASCAR >> online racing. >> >> Has anything replaced GPL yet? >> Now after about 2 years of being away, I'm getting the itch to >> re-install my old GPL and NASCAR stuff on my new machine (Dell >> 8400 3GHz PCI-EXPRESS, XP) and dig up my old Thomas >> Wheel/Pedals (replace or clean a few pots I bet). >> >> Is VROC still going strong? Still a lot of people racing? >> >> What "new" sims out there (and coming soon) give the most GPL >> like experience for online and stand alone? >> >> Should I just forget all new sims and just crank up GPL and go >> searching for new add-ons? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> -GR >> >> > > GTR has replaced GPL in my opinion. It features the 2003 FIA GT > season. Based on a mod SimBin made for F1 2002, the full game is > based on the ISI's engine. In my mind it's the best currently > available. rFactor by ISI is also available, though only in an > online multiplayer beta at the moment. It's main focus is user > customization rather than one particular racing series. > > Yes, I too hated ISI's past efforts. SCGT was fun for a while > until I discoverd GPL. Never played it again. F1 2001 was > garbage, GP3 was better. Never payed any attention to F1 2002 > since it's predecessor was so bad. Tried F1 Challenge and it was > pretty good, but still not as good as Papyrus' games. I think > SimBin is making real progress with ISI's old code and ISI itself > is steadily improving it's own stuff so as to really de-throne > Papy as the king of sim makers. > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > | Morgan V. Wooten | > | [email hidden] | > > >

> > Umm, NR2003 isn't. Nope ..........He is right GPL is still KIng no contest.

Place 3 tablespoons of stuffing in the wrap, roll tightly - corner nearest you first, fold 2 side corners in, wrap till remaining corner is left. Brush with egg, seal, and allow to sit on the seal for a few minutes. Fry the rolls: 325� if using egg roll wraps, 350� for spring roll wraps. Deep fry in peanut oil till crispy golden brown, drain on paper towels. Lemon Neonate Turkey serves just as well, and in fact even looks a bit like a well-dressed baby. By the time you turn the child?s breast into cutlets, it will be indistinguishable. The taste of young human, although similar to turkey (and chicken) often can be wildly different depending upon what he or she has consumed during its 10 to 14 months of life... 4 well chosen cutlets (from the breasts of 2 healthy neonates) 2 large lemons (fresh lemons always, if possible) Olive oil Green onions Salt pepper cornstarch neonate stock (chicken, or turkey stock is fine) garlic parsley fresh cracked black pepper Season and saut� the cutlets in olive oil till golden brown, remove. Add the garlic and onions and cook down a bit. Add some lemon juice and some zest, then de-glaze with stock. Add

25 minutes - or you could fry them in olive oil. Place the meatballs in the tomato gravy, and simmer for several hours. Serve on spaghetti. Accompany with green salad, garlic bread and red wine. Newborn Parmesan This classic Sicilian cuisine can easily be turned into Eggplant Parmesan If you are planning a vegetarian meal. Or you could just as well use veal - after all, you have to be careful - Sicilians are touchy about their young family members... 6 newborn or veal cutlets Tomato gravy (see index) 4 cups mozzarella, 1cup parmesan, 1cup romano Seasoned bread crumbs mixed with parmesan romano salt pepper oregano garlic powder chopped parsley Flour eggwash (eggs and milk) Peanut oil for frying. Pound the cutlets. Dredge in flour, eggs, then the bread crumb mixture. Fry till golden brown in 350� peanut oil. In a baking pan, place a layer of gravy, then one of meat, gravy, and cheese. Another layer each of meat, gravy, and cheese. Then bake at 350� for 45 minutes. Serve on hot pasta with romano cheese. Southern Fried Small-fry Tastes like fried chicken, which works just as well. In fact you may want to practice cutting up whole chickens for frying before you go for the real thing. Whole chicken is much more efficient and inexpensive than buying pieces. 1 tiny human, cut into pieces 2 cups flour Onion, garlic Salt pepper garlic powder cayenne pepper hot sauce, etc. Oil for frying Mix milk, eggs, hot sauce in a bowl, add chopped onion and garlic. Season the meat liberally, and marinate for severa

GTR is certainly more complicated, interesting and fun than anything Papyrus ever did, but I think the jury is still out on multiplayer. I was online last night w. GTR 1.2 for the first time, and while the warping wasn't too bad, and the join lag seems to have gone away, there was still some stuttering, brief (unaccountable) freezes, and several CTDs that left everybody in the session sitting naked on the floor wondering where the walls and ceiling had gone. I drove, back-to-back, the 3rd-party Nordschleife for GTR and the N2003 conversion of the GPL ver of the Ring in one of the Ferrari P4 mod cars, and the GTR cars seem much more lively - there's more to react to...and the response is not only more involved and involving, it also makes the N2003 mod seem crude and unsophisticated by comparison. That is, GTR seems as much of a leap ahead of N2003 as N2003 seemed advanced ahead of GPL. That said, everybody knows the 330 mod physics are hardly plausible (too much grip, too much drag, too much braking power, not enough horsepower, and somehow seemingly redolent of the front-engined origins), as if done in haste. The forthcoming GTP mod for N2003 seems to have a lot more thought and effort going into it, and if it manages to capture the elusive aero element (prolly not fully augmented in the "after-market" Papy CTS/TA physics to begin with), the multiplayer strengths could play well to online leagues (which need more event stats, less MoTec data). rFactor, which is obviously in the early stages of availability to modders, could easily surpass anything and everything that has gone on before, as could the curious, SODA-like Live for Speed, and Dave Kaemmer's N2003-based First-Racing project could yet put the King back on his throne. IMO. "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> GTR is far and away the best game going right now. Those that say it's > another ISI game flatly haven't played it. It's a great sim and leaps and > bounds ahead of GPL in virtually every way. Multi code is fantastic as > well, these guys don't have a clue because they are just the ISI bashers. > Get yourself a copy and enjoy the supercars and tracks. > > Chad > > > "nrvsreck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Before collapsing in a drunken stupor Gary Robinson > > <[email hidden]> managed to mumble the following: > > > >> Hello all, > >> > >> I've been away from racing sims for a few years now. > >> I used to spend quite a bit of seat time in GPL and NASCAR > >> online racing. > >> > >> Has anything replaced GPL yet? > >> Now after about 2 years of being away, I'm getting the itch to > >> re-install my old GPL and NASCAR stuff on my new machine (Dell > >> 8400 3GHz PCI-EXPRESS, XP) and dig up my old Thomas > >> Wheel/Pedals (replace or clean a few pots I bet). > >> > >> Is VROC still going strong? Still a lot of people racing? > >> > >> What "new" sims out there (and coming soon) give the most GPL > >> like experience for online and stand alone? > >> > >> Should I just forget all new sims and just crank up GPL and go > >> searching for new add-ons? > >> > >> Thanks in advance, > >> > >> -GR > >> > >> > > > > GTR has replaced GPL in my opinion. It features the 2003 FIA GT > > season. Based on a mod SimBin made for F1 2002, the full game is > > based on the ISI's engine. In my mind it's the best currently > > available. rFactor by ISI is also available, though only in an > > online multiplayer beta at the moment. It's main focus is user > > customization rather than one particular racing series. > > > > Yes, I too hated ISI's past efforts. SCGT was fun for a while > > until I discoverd GPL. Never played it again. F1 2001 was > > garbage, GP3 was better. Never payed any attention to F1 2002 > > since it's predecessor was so bad. Tried F1 Challenge and it was > > pretty good, but still not as good as Papyrus' games. I think > > SimBin is making real progress with ISI's old code and ISI itself > > is steadily improving it's own stuff so as to really de-throne > > Papy as the king of sim makers. > > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > | Morgan V. Wooten | > > | [email hidden] | > > > > > > > >

crawfish, crab, or headless baby). Flour oil onions bell peppers garlic salt, pepper, etc. 3 cups chicken stock 2 sticks butter 3 tablespoons oil First stuff the heads, or make the patties (see index) then fry or bake. Set aside to drain on paper towels. Make a roux with butter, oil and flour, brown vegetables in the roux, then add chicken stock and allow to simmer for 20 minutes. Add the patties or stuffed heads, and some loose crawfish, lobster, long piglet, or what have you. Cook on low for 15 minutes, then allow it to set for at least 15 minutes more. Serve over steamed rice; this dish is very impressive! Stuffed Cabbage Rolls Babies really can be found under a cabbage leaf - or one can arrange for ground beef to be found there instead. 8 large cabbage leaves 1 lb. lean ground newborn human filets, or ground chuck Onions peppers celery garlic soy sauce salt pepper, etc Olive oil breadcrumbs Tomato Gravy (see index) Boil the cabbage leaves for 2 minutes to soften. In skille

Babies Just like crabs or crawfish, babies are boiled alive! You don?t need silverware, the hot spicy meat comes off in your hands. 6 live babies 1 lb. smoked sausage 4 lemons whole garlic 2 lb. new potatoes 4 ears corn 1 box salt crab boil Bring 3 gallons of water to a boil. Add sausage, salt, crab boil, lemons and garlic. Drop potatoes in, boil for 4 minutes. Corn is added next, boil an additional 11 minutes. Put the live babies into the boiling water and cover. Boil till meat comes off easily with a fork. Oven-Baked Baby-Back Ribs Beef ribs or pork ribs can be used in this recipe, and that is exactly what your dinner guests will assume! An excellent way to expose the uninitiated to this highly misunderstood yet succulent source of protein. 2 human baby rib racks 3 cups barbecue sauce or honey glaze (see index) Salt black pepper white pepper paprika Remove the silverskin by loosening from the edges, then stripping off. Season generously, rubbing the mixture into the baby?s flesh. Place 1 quart water in a baking pan, the meat on a wire rack. Bake uncovered in 250� oven for 1� hours. When browned, remove and glaze, return to oven and bake 20 minutes more to form a glaze. Cut ribs into individual

use sherry; red wine with beef (buy steak or roast, do not pre-boil). Pie crust (see index) Whole fresh pre-mie; eviscerated, head, hands and feet removed Onions, bell pepper, celery � cup wine Root vegetables of choice (turnips, carrots, potatoes, etc) cubed Make a crust from scratch - or go shamefully to the frozen food section of your favorite grocery and select 2 high quality pie crusts (you will need one for the top also). Boil the prepared delicacy until the meat starts to come off the bones. Remove, de-bone and cube; continue to reduce the broth. Brown the onions, peppers and celery. Add the meat then season, continue browning. De-glaze with sherry, add the reduced broth. Finally, put in the root vegetables and simmer for 15 minutes. Allow to cool slightly. Place the pie pan in 375 degree oven for a few minutes so bottom crust is not soggy, reduce oven to 325. Fill the pie with stew, place top crust and with a fork, seal the crusts together then poke holes in top. Return to oven and bake for 30 minutes, or until pie crust is golden brown. Sudden Infant Death Soup SIDS: delicious in winter, comparable to old fashioned Beef and Vegetable Soup. Its free, you can sell the crib, baby clothes, toys, stroller... and so easy to procure if such a lucky find is at hand (just pick him up from the crib and he?s good to go)! SIDS victim, cleaned � cup cooking oil Carrots onions broccoli whole cabbage fresh green beans potato turnip celery tomato � stick butter 1 cup cooked pasta (macaroni, shells, etc.) Remove as much meat as possible, cube, and brown in hot oil. Add a little water, season, then add the carcass. Simmer for half an hour keeping the stock thick. Remove the carca

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Kenzd.77384$[email hidden]...

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> GTR is certainly more complicated, interesting and fun than anything > Papyrus > ever did, but I think the jury is still out on multiplayer. I was online > last night w. GTR 1.2 for the first time, and while the warping wasn't too > bad, and the join lag seems to have gone away, there was still some > stuttering, brief (unaccountable) freezes, and several CTDs that left > everybody in the session sitting naked on the floor wondering where the > walls and ceiling had gone. >

[snip] I had exactly the same experience over the last two days - stutters - CTDs and loads of 'connection lost' messages. This thing is hopeless for multiplayer :( I even had the misfortune of running one race where the pace lap was on - all competitors were rock steady but the pace car was warping all over the place and took half the field out. I wonder if anyone designing these things ever takes the trouble to look at papy sims, where the interface, replays and multi-player have ruled the roost for as long as I can remember. GTR is a lot of fun 'but it ain't no gpl' (not that I have that installed anymore). My short term hopes lie in the GTP mod and long term in rFactor. It's a shame they can't bolt the physics from ISI into the papy system - that would be the one! I just really hope that the developers of rFactor have had a long hard look at NR2003, which represents the 'usability standard' at the moment. If the demo is anything to go by, the graphics will be better than the disappointing GTR effort. Ahh well, there's always next Christmas ;) Regards

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 00:04:58 GMT, Steve Smith wrote:

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> GTR is certainly more complicated, interesting and fun than anything Papyrus > ever did, but I think the jury is still out on multiplayer. I was online > last night w. GTR 1.2 for the first time, and while the warping wasn't too > bad, and the join lag seems to have gone away, there was still some > stuttering, brief (unaccountable) freezes, and several CTDs that left > everybody in the session sitting naked on the floor wondering where the > walls and ceiling had gone.

The general consensus on the net seems to be that the 1.2 patch for GTR actually made things worse online, regarding server and client crashes and whatnot. With 1.1 at least you could have a stable 20-plus field race once quali was done, but currently there's only disconnects, crashes and whining for many gtr racers out there. I rear the same thing thing for first racing... unless they make me a beta tester. Heck, I know some folks who were picked for the beta test who don't even own n2003 ;-> Cheers, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 00:04:58 GMT, Steve Smith wrote: > > GTR is certainly more complicated, interesting and fun than anythingPapyrus > > ever did, but I think the jury is still out on multiplayer. I wasonline > > last night w. GTR 1.2 for the first time, and while the warping wasn'ttoo

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> > bad, and the join lag seems to have gone away, there was still some > > stuttering, brief (unaccountable) freezes, and several CTDs that left > > everybody in the session sitting naked on the floor wondering where the > > walls and ceiling had gone. > > The general consensus on the net seems to be that the 1.2 patch for > GTR actually made things worse online, regarding server and client > crashes and whatnot. With 1.1 at least you could have a stable 20-plus > field race once quali was done, but currently there's only > disconnects, crashes and whining for many gtr racers out there. > > I rear the same thing thing for first racing... unless they make me a > beta tester. Heck, I know some folks who were picked for the beta test > who don't even own n2003 ;-> > > Cheers, uwe > > -- > GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Perhaps they wanted a few "fresh" approaches, instead of those with pre-conceived biases, etc. Sometimes being to close to a subject, can blind the viewer to it's faults.

Yeah, but when it's right, it's right. Maybe that's why so many people like it. -Larry "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wYCzd.144$[email hidden]... > Perhaps they wanted a few "fresh" approaches, instead of those with > pre-conceived biases, etc. Sometimes being to close to a subject, can > blind > the viewer to it's faults. > >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FCJzd.10638$jn.9333@lakeread06... > Yeah, but when it's right, it's right. Maybe that's why so many peoplelike > it. > > -Larry No doubt. But like I said, perhaps (who knows) First wanted some (not all) folks not carrying any "excess baggage" in terms of prejudices, etc. Good as Papy stuff was, it *could* have been better in many areas, and who needs/wants a tester entering in with a mindset of, "Pffft, ain't no Papy product, can't be worth a damn."

"JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:wYCzd.144$[email hidden]: > "Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]...<snip>

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>> I rear the same thing thing for first racing... unless they make me a >> beta tester. Heck, I know some folks who were picked for the beta test >> who don't even own n2003 ;-> > > Perhaps they wanted a few "fresh" approaches, instead of those with > pre-conceived biases, etc. Sometimes being to close to a subject, can > blind the viewer to it's faults.

Getting few beta-testers without sim-racing experience would definitely make sense. Just imagine if they pick beta testers exclusively from GPL elite, what kind of game they would produce? Testers keep saying: not enough power, not enough torque, too easy to drive, the tracks are unrealistically smooth. Finally testers are satisfied. Now, how many years would it take a regular person to learn to drive the result? ;) Alex.

"alexti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:wYCzd.144$[email hidden]: > > > "Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > <snip> > >> I rear the same thing thing for first racing... unless they make me a > >> beta tester. Heck, I know some folks who were picked for the beta test > >> who don't even own n2003 ;-> > > > > Perhaps they wanted a few "fresh" approaches, instead of those with > > pre-conceived biases, etc. Sometimes being to close to a subject, can > > blind the viewer to it's faults. > > Getting few beta-testers without sim-racing experience would definitely > make sense. Just imagine if they pick beta testers exclusively from > GPL elite, what kind of game they would produce? Testers keep saying: not > enough power, not enough torque, too easy to drive, the tracks are > unrealistically smooth. Finally testers are satisfied. Now, how many years > would it take a regular person to learn to drive the result? ;) > > Alex.

There's plenty of other sims besides GPL, to pick testers from :)

"Neil Charlton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cqm674$dt0$[email hidden]... > > I wonder if anyone designing these things ever takes the trouble to lookat > papy sims, where the interface, replays and multi-player have ruled the > roost for as long as I can remember. > Clearly not! :( Nor any real time game with successful multi for that matter! I was jubious about the multi with this thing when I heard about the skin swapping - what a clueless design flaw! It seems the problem with a lot of software houses is that some idiot always manages to get a say somehow - the product of weak leadership. Or maybe the leader/management is the idiot. It always amazes me (for 6 years to date) that there are tons of games with good multiplayer but only Papy have been able to do it properly with race sims - wtf?????? I'm starting to regret parting with my money for this thing. For a sim company to not have the multi sorted b4 they even focus on any other part of the sim inspires zero confidence in me. Pathetic!