Re: Legendary Simulations (kinda a survey)

On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:29:22 +0100, "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message <kY0L4.113$[email hidden]> : >The first racing sim I ever remember was Revs on the BBC Model B. My mate >had one and I was always around their trying to make it around Silverstone. >I remember it seemed as difficult and accurate as GPL seems today. Revs was very much in the same mold as GPL - pushing the limits of what could be simulated with the available power and being pretty uncompromising in terms of "quick win" driving aids. At least it's a lot easier to drive GPL with a wheel & pedals than it ever was to drive Revs with just the keyboard! Cheers, Richard PS: the chicane at Donnington was a right bugger to ever get right. Probably the hardest corner ever in sim racing. PPS: I've yet to forgive Billy Bumper for his somewhat "robust" driving tactics and I'm still waiting for Gloria Slap to accept that offer of a date <g>

In article <8dhl8o$qbq$[email hidden]>, "Hugh" <[email hidden]> writes: >I would also like to volunteer a game as the legendary worst ever racing >sim. It was so bad that it deliberately defied the laws of physics and made >the computer cars catch up with you on the last lap; even if you were almost >a whole lap ahead. Sadly, like a bad dream, the name of the game has been >wiped from my memory! Bill Elliot's Nascar Racing? -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

revs on c64 (bunked off work to play this! with my boss!!!!!!) f1gp/gp2 (a logical evolution from revs+) icr1/2 (cos i'd never driven ovals) gpl er thats it really.... evphelps

Tim Wheatley <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jZPK4.14128$[email hidden]... > Firstly, this is a survey kinda, and I reserve the right to use anycomments > on my site for something I am thinking of doing.... > > Secondly, the big question: > > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? >Ok Tim here ya go ! First 'real' racing sim I tried was F1GP.. the atari version...hell, we was using the atari to run cubase.. 'another legend'... actually bought a pc to run F1GP2..... and then there was ICR2 .... ooer missus! Toca 1 was quite nice..given that it was front wheel drive..and cars with front wheel drive defy the laws of physics ! lol ... but it was great to be able to 'drive' those tracks.. Oulton park was especially nice with lens flare and all! Got nascar2, after that , then GPL.... ( I hesitate to mention the 'non-runners' some kinda racing simulation series.. For me the standout sims must have accurate tracks, physics that are fairly realistic..given what is possible at the time.. and please no more murray walker! jv

Tim Wheatley <[email hidden]> schrieb im Beitrag <jZPK4.14128$[email hidden]>... > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > Okay, Geoff Crammond did the first F1 racing simulation with F1 grand prix (first for Amiga). It was amazing. Later (June 1996) he topped himself with GP2. In summer 1998 there appeared GP Legends, which set a new standard for realism in computer sims. Those are the legens and classics. Jochen

Firstly, this is a survey kinda, and I reserve the right to use any comments on my site for something I am thinking of doing.... Secondly, the big question: What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? Mine personally would be: Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix 2, Grand Prix Legends. That is my own personal opinion, and please when you answer say why it is 'classic' or 'legendary.' Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new ground in racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. If you have large comments, feel free to email them to me: mailto:[email hidden] Many Thanks, Tim

Nascar 1, It started the whole craze with its record sales. First time I was wowed by graphics was with GP2, First physics that blew me away were GPL. -- Kevin Anderson [email hidden] --------------------------------------------------- DK-Racing #15 K_Anderson ------------------------------------------------- http://www.awtech.net/ "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jZPK4.14128$[email hidden]... > Firstly, this is a survey kinda, and I reserve the right to use any comments > on my site for something I am thinking of doing.... > > Secondly, the big question: > > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > > Mine personally would be: > > Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix 2, > Grand Prix Legends. > > That is my own personal opinion, and please when you answer say why it is > 'classic' or 'legendary.' > > Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new ground in > racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. > > If you have large comments, feel free to email them to me: > mailto:[email hidden] > > Many Thanks, > > Tim > >

nascar 1 because available in a cheap game bundle for mac in fact only racin sim still available for mac (gone are indy 1 and 2 * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

excellent info, thanks

writes: Bill Elliot's Nascar Racing? -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Tim Wheatley wrote:

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> > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > > Mine personally would be: > > Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix 2, > Grand Prix Legends. >

Go back further! Does anyone remember these "accolade"-"sims"? #88 was the one to beat. I had the F1-game on a PC and the motorcycle-game on a Mac-Classic!!! Has anyone done done a lap under 1 min with the 500 cc at the Salzburgring? A friend of mine, who showed me the accolade-F1-game was enthusiastic about the mirrors, which he considered to be a crucial step to reality. (Think about this, when opening threads about reality in new sims ;-).) I would vote for the Accolade-motorcycle-Sim, because your engine was blown in sixth gear in the 125 cc-class, if you had the perfect-line through a set of curves at Suzuka ;-) gruss h.

"Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new ground in >racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. Hmm, I disagree....F1RS was the first sim with a "roostertail" and dynamic weather. The fog was overdone, I remember I was lost on the secundairy roads at Silverstone a few times.... <g> Remco

The first ever sim that really caught my attention was a game called Revs for the BBC; based on Formula 3 racing I think. If I recall it was written by some chap called Crammond. I would also like to volunteer a game as the legendary worst ever racing sim. It was so bad that it deliberately defied the laws of physics and made the computer cars catch up with you on the last lap; even if you were almost a whole lap ahead. Sadly, like a bad dream, the name of the game has been wiped from my memory! Tim Wheatley <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jZPK4.14128$[email hidden]... > Firstly, this is a survey kinda, and I reserve the right to use anycomments

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> on my site for something I am thinking of doing.... > > Secondly, the big question: > > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > > Mine personally would be: > > Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix 2, > Grand Prix Legends. > > That is my own personal opinion, and please when you answer say why it is > 'classic' or 'legendary.' > > Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new ground

in

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> racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. > > If you have large comments, feel free to email them to me: > mailto:[email hidden] > > Many Thanks, > > Tim > >

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Wheatley <[email hidden]> writes: Tim> What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? Revs (for the BBC). -peter

yeah thanks, i'm not old enough to remember that, but someone just e-mailed me that, do you know where i could find some screenshots? i obviously don't have the games :o( "Harald Blahovec" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Tim Wheatley wrote: > > > > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > > > > Mine personally would be: > > > > Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix

2,

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> > Grand Prix Legends. > > > Go back further! > > Does anyone remember these "accolade"-"sims"? > #88 was the one to beat. > I had the F1-game on a PC and the motorcycle-game on a Mac-Classic!!! > > Has anyone done done a lap under 1 min with the 500 cc at the > Salzburgring? > > A friend of mine, who showed me the accolade-F1-game was enthusiastic > about the mirrors, which he considered to be a crucial step to reality. > (Think about this, when opening threads about reality in new sims ;-).) > > I would vote for the Accolade-motorcycle-Sim, because your engine was > blown > in sixth gear > in the 125 cc-class, if you had the perfect-line through a set of curves > at Suzuka ;-) > > gruss h.

thanks for the opinion, i was overshadowed by gp2 i guess, but i'm getting some great feedback here! this is cool! "Remco Moedt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new groundin

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> >racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. > > Hmm, I disagree....F1RS was the first sim with a "roostertail" and > dynamic weather. The fog was overdone, I remember I was lost > on the secundairy roads at Silverstone a few times.... <g> > > Remco >

I'll let you know what I am planning on doing... Planning on doing a timeline/history on GOOD simulations/games, the ones people remember for certain reasons, i'm planning on doing a page for each, giving details about how groundbreaking it was, what was 'run of the mill' and other such stuff, for indy 500 for example, it had wireframe graphics which are still amasingly used today in papyrus simulations (the wireframe surfaces are texturised now though), this is why i need good quotes from you guys too, the e-mails i've recieved have been great, one of them is basically going to get quoted in whole ;o)) "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jZPK4.14128$[email hidden]... > Firstly, this is a survey kinda, and I reserve the right to use anycomments

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> on my site for something I am thinking of doing.... > > Secondly, the big question: > > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > > Mine personally would be: > > Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix 2, > Grand Prix Legends. > > That is my own personal opinion, and please when you answer say why it is > 'classic' or 'legendary.' > > Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new ground

in

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> racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. > > If you have large comments, feel free to email them to me: > mailto:[email hidden] > > Many Thanks, > > Tim > >

Tim Wheatley wrote:

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> > I'll let you know what I am planning on doing... > > Planning on doing a timeline/history on GOOD simulations/games, the ones > people remember for certain reasons, i'm planning on doing a page for each, > giving details about how groundbreaking it was, what was 'run of the mill' > and other such stuff, for indy 500 for example, it had wireframe graphics > which are still amasingly used today in papyrus simulations (the wireframe > surfaces are texturised now though), this is why i need good quotes from you > guys too, the e-mails i've recieved have been great, one of them is > basically going to get quoted in whole ;o))

Why not do the whole shebang ? Highlight the really really good, and the despicably awful. Would make a great read (speaking as someone who has only experienced f1gp2 & gpl... ;-) even if it'll take several months to compile! Phil

I'm gonna say the F1GP was a classic sim. Its way outdated and not so brilliant in todays standards but it was just the most unbelievably accurate and detailed sim of its day. And of course it started us on our way to GP2 and did our heads in waiting for GP3:-) As a classic I'll give it to GPL, people WILL be playing this for years as much as it pains me to say:-) Tim Wheatley <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jZPK4.14128$[email hidden]... > Firstly, this is a survey kinda, and I reserve the right to use anycomments

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> on my site for something I am thinking of doing.... > > Secondly, the big question: > > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > > Mine personally would be: > > Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix 2, > Grand Prix Legends. > > That is my own personal opinion, and please when you answer say why it is > 'classic' or 'legendary.' > > Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new ground

in

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> racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. > > If you have large comments, feel free to email them to me: > mailto:[email hidden] > > Many Thanks, > > Tim > >

For those looking for all the classics: http://gallery.uunet.be/year1440/index.html Proceed to the main framepage > introduction > Racing Sim history and let the memories come back :-) JoH

The first racing sim I ever remember was Revs on the BBC Model B. My mate had one and I was always around their trying to make it around Silverstone. I remember it seemed as difficult and accurate as GPL seems today. The other racing sim which stands out is Chequered Flag for the Spectrum. This was the first sim I ever owned, back in 1983 I think. I still have the tape somwhere. I remember it was a very expensive �5.95 and was published by Psion (they of the personal organisers). Of course of the newer sims GPL is the title with stands over all others. So far no commercial sim has come close to it IMO. Cheers Phil -- http://www.youpies.co.uk

>Okay, Geoff Crammond did the first F1 racing simulation with >F1 grand prix (first for Amiga). It was amazing. World Circuit/F1 Grand Prix was, indeed, an amazing demonstration of what he could pull out of a (7Mhz) machine. It was simply worlds above any of the other sims both in terms of realism and visuals.

[email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote in <6QZK4.14600$[email hidden]>:

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>I'll let you know what I am planning on doing... > >Planning on doing a timeline/history on GOOD simulations/games, the ones >people remember for certain reasons, i'm planning on doing a page for >each, giving details about how groundbreaking it was, what was 'run of >the mill' and other such stuff, for indy 500 for example, it had >wireframe graphics which are still amasingly used today in papyrus >simulations (the wireframe surfaces are texturised now though), this is >why i need good quotes from you guys too, the e-mails i've recieved have >been great, one of them is basically going to get quoted in whole ;o))

Not that this would neccessarily fit in your list but EA actually has done F1 before. Not too long after the Amiga was first introduced, perhaps two years later, they released Ferrari Formula 1. I believe it was the first F1 sim for the computer.

excellent info, thanks "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kY0L4.113$[email hidden]... > The first racing sim I ever remember was Revs on the BBC Model B. My mate > had one and I was always around their trying to make it aroundSilverstone. > I remember it seemed as difficult and accurate as GPL seems today. > > The other racing sim which stands out is Chequered Flag for the Spectrum. > This was the first sim I ever owned, back in 1983 I think. I still havethe

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> tape somwhere. I remember it was a very expensive �5.95 and was published > by Psion (they of the personal organisers). > > Of course of the newer sims GPL is the title with stands over all others. > So far no commercial sim has come close to it IMO. > > Cheers > > Phil > > -- > http://www.youpies.co.uk > > > >

My first sim ever ? "VROOM" in my very very old ATARI computer. Does some1 here know this game ? It was great at his time. Remco Moedt <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message : [email hidden]... > "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new groundin

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> >racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. > > Hmm, I disagree....F1RS was the first sim with a "roostertail" and > dynamic weather. The fog was overdone, I remember I was lost > on the secundairy roads at Silverstone a few times.... <g> > > Remco >

PITSTOP II! The first split screen multiplayer racer that I know of, for the Commodore 64.(Was that the bbc computer in England?) You even ran your little Pitstop guy around to change tires and add fuel. Then you could see your opponenent on the split screen. It was always cool if your broke to park the car and watch the opponent screen. You'd always knew when he was close to whizzing by on your screen. Ferrari Formula One, the Amiga World Circut Grand Prix, the Amiga Stunt Car, the Amiga Indy 500, Amiga Indycar II Nascar II F1GP2 GPL CART 3!!!! dave henrie Tim Wheatley wrote:

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> > Firstly, this is a survey kinda, and I reserve the right to use any comments > on my site for something I am thinking of doing.... > > Secondly, the big question: > > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > > Mine personally would be: > > Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix 2, > Grand Prix Legends. > > That is my own personal opinion, and please when you answer say why it is > 'classic' or 'legendary.' > > Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new ground in > racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. > > If you have large comments, feel free to email them to me: > mailto:[email hidden] > > Many Thanks, > > Tim

Well, this old memory came back to me the other day and I've been looking for and excuse to post it. It's not entirely appropriate but what the heck, I'm sure there are those who will find this of interest. :) The first sim that I ever clapped eyes on was way back in the late 60s early 70s. It was, from what I can recall, it was in this darkened room all on its own and consisted of the shell of a Lotus (wheels and all) with steering wheel and pedals that the driver could sit in (though no overalls and helmet required :)), and it was set in front of a big screen some 4 or so feet square on which was displayed the track as the driver moved along. It was very popular and there was quite a queue to have a go. Unfortunately I was too young to try it myself - there's no way I would have been able to reach the pedals - but I was able to look behind the screen to see how it all worked. :) Basically it was a mini-camera suspended just above the track of a full minature 3d model of a circuit (don't remember which one) and this image was fed to the back side of the large, translucent display so that as the camera moved along above the track, presumably directed by the driver's inputs, it gave a pretty good 3 dimensional sense of motion. I can't remember if there was any sound but do recall that the track was flat which I expect it needed to be. To me this was very sophisticated for its day, well beyond anything else for years to come and I wonder now what ever became of it. It's a shame I was too young to have been able to appreciate it for myself. Does anyone else remember anything like this at all? -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Ashley McConnell wrote:

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> > Ahhhh.....Chequered Flag for the speccy.....the memories :) > > Paul Richard and its big long straight......what a game! :) > > I got it with "Horace goes skiing" / "Chess" / "Scrabble" and another too > that where crap.....my first computer....a rubber keyed speccy.

The other title wasn't a game as such - it was "Make a Chip". -- AG Remove removes from address to remove anti-spam measures. -- Alan Gauton E-Mail [email hidden] Never for me the lowered banner, never the last endeavour! (Damon Hill - 16th June 1999)

On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Kirk Lane wrote: > And maybe (just maybe) a quick dive into the arcade realm as well...I > remember playing Virtua Racing for the first time...the first truly 3d > arcade (or any?) racing game, force feedback to boot...I went to Indy that <snipped> Great story, that ride with Lloyd Ruby must have been exciting. Actually, Atari Hard Drivin' and Race Drivin' arcade games were both earlier than this (late 1980's), with: -- 3d world (drive anywhere, loop-the-loop, etc) -- Decent car physics model (with reasonable tire data) -- Force feedback (the developers/Atari have a patent on FF for video games) This fits in the shameless plug category, since I worked on those games... -- Doug Douglas Milliken <[email hidden]> Milliken Research Associates Inc.

Why not ICR1 and N1?? I mean, up until the release of Indy in N3, people still clamored (and some still do) for that ICR1 Indy Expansion pack...and both of those were the first racing sims on my first PC (up until then it was all Macs, never did try Indy 500) And maybe (just maybe) a quick dive into the arcade realm as well...I remember playing Virtua Racing for the first time...the first truly 3d arcade (or any?) racing game, force feedback to boot...I went to Indy that year, '93, they had a machine set up to play for free, fastest time would get to race the next day against a big driver, I think it was Emmo!! Course, I wasn't fast enough, but I did win a high-speed ride in the pace car around the track with Lloyd Ruby!! We were following one guy (I can't remember for the life of me who we were following but my dad does) but he didn't really wanna push it...when he went into the pits, Lloyd stomped on the sucker...got up to 110-120 going into 3 before getting on the brakes to avoid the guys working on the track =) BTW if you didn't know the pace car that year was a '93 Camaro Z28, the first of the fourth-gens, complete with 275hp LT1 engine, so it went pretty good...and since my dad and my brother were in the back seat (haha not much of a seat...the seat itself is quite comfy but there is NO legroom period and for me being 6'2" no headroom either) I think that was the first thing that conviced my dad to trade his '73 911S (that's not a back seat that's a torture chamber =) in for the '94 Camaro Z28 which he still has...man that thing is fast =) -- Kirk Lane [email hidden] [email hidden] ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "Yeah you won't find me I'm going MIA Tonight I'm leaving Going MIA Getting lost in you again Is better than being known" -Foo Fighters, "MIA"

None of them qualify, in my opinion. Have a look in any dictionary for the literal meaning of the word "legend". :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Tim Wheatley <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jZPK4.14128$[email hidden]... > Firstly, this is a survey kinda, and I reserve the right to use any comments > on my site for something I am thinking of doing.... > > Secondly, the big question: > > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > > Mine personally would be: > > Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix 2, > Grand Prix Legends. > > That is my own personal opinion, and please when you answer say why it is > 'classic' or 'legendary.' > > Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new ground in > racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. > > If you have large comments, feel free to email them to me: > mailto:[email hidden] > > Many Thanks, > > Tim > >

"Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jZPK4.14128$[email hidden]... > Firstly, this is a survey kinda, and I reserve the right to use anycomments

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> on my site for something I am thinking of doing.... > > Secondly, the big question: > > What do you consider as Legendary Racing Simulations? > > Mine personally would be: > > Indy 500 the simulation, Indycar Racing 2, NASCAR Racing 2, Grand Prix 2, > Grand Prix Legends. >

Night Driver, C64 :) MRSisson Posted by a professional stunt poster. Do not attempt.

On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:18:38 GMT lbaum <[email hidden]> wrote: % Not that this would neccessarily fit in your list but EA actually has done % F1 before. Not too long after the Amiga was first introduced, perhaps two % years later, they released Ferrari Formula 1. I believe it was the first F1 % sim for the computer. Accolade's excellent Grand Prix Circuit beat this one. FF1 had alot of promise and alot of cool stuff (wind tunnels, etc.). I also think the line of sight panned instead of following the nose of the car in turns. It never quite worked as well for me though as Grand Prix Circuit (Silverstone was my favorite and best track). However, the #1 racing sim has to be Indianapolis 500 the Simulation. This was the first sim that really attempted to provide us with the "physics" of racing. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

<snip> ) I think that was the first thing that conviced my dad to trade his > '73 911S (that's not a back seat that's a torture chamber =) in for the '94 > Camaro Z28 which he still has...man that thing is fast =) DO I read this Correctly?! Traded a 73 Porsche 911S fer a 94 Z28...... shakin his head .... Md

"Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote > I'll let you know what I am planning on doing... I`ve got an archive of more than a hundred historical racing games from the 80's, with pictures and information if you ever need help. That was for my SRHoF historical section, which is dead a long time ago ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

"Remco Moedt" <[email hidden]> wrote > Hmm, I disagree....F1RS was the first sim with a "roostertail" and > dynamic weather. The fog was overdone, I remember I was lost > on the secundairy roads at Silverstone a few times.... <g> The artist team at Ubisoft had problems back in the days with the correct "color" the fog should have. It was that way or else you had total darkness/incredible glare coming out from everything. It was the best balance ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:43:27 +0100, "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote: <SNIP lots of good Tim Wheatley stuff> In chronological order I would have to start with The Cycles by Accolade and the F1 game that came out at the same time also by Accolade. (1988??) Both truly amazing (graphics, sound) and also the games that convinced me to stop playing games on Apples and Nintendos :-) Next up would have to be Indy 500. Stunning graphics and sound (it came bundled with my original 8 bit sound blaster.) NASCAR racing was the next game that caught my attention. (HI-Res!! WOW!!) I only ever saw F1GP running once and that was about two months before GP2 came out. So I would have to say that F1GP was not a great influence to me. But GP2 on the other hand, Fan-F***ing-tastic. Never forget my first race using the keyboard at monza when a certain M. Schumacher sent me flying. The only reason that I have stopped playing it is that my dodgy sound card won't work in DOS. I tried other sims after GP2 but none of them really caught my imagination until the fateful day that I logged onto RAS and saw all these posts about a new Papy game. I thought sounds interesting. Then I found out it was just the demo everyone was talking about. "How can this be?? There are so many posts about it. It must be truly amazing." So I headed off the gpl.gamestats.com and spent the next hour downloading. I only finished the D/L at about 1:00 am that morning and could only spend one hour that night playing it... and i don't remember completing one single lap let alone one sequence of corners!!! The next morning I woke up to find that my hard drive had crashed and it was another week before I once again experienced the joy that is GPL. As soon as it hit the stores in AUS I owned it and have enjoyed countless hours since. And it is interesting to note that out of all the sims I have mentioned above it and GP2 are the only ones still residing on my system. As of late I have trying to recapture the feeling that GP2 and GPL have both given me without much success. I would say that GP500 is the only sim that has come close but I am also a completely crazy Motorbike nut. Honorable mentions must go to Stunts (4D Sports Racing in US AFAIK) and NFS:SE 1. Both games that actually kept pulling me back towards them. I think this has turned out a bit longer than I had originally planed and i'm begging to get all nostalgic. Time To End. p.s. Congratulations if you managed to hold out till here :-) Clive Nicholson. "He's a complete idiot. He couldn't get stung in a beehive." - Barry Sheene. "Don't worry. It's not loaded..." - Famous Last Words. "I've got a steering wheel down my pants. It's driving me nuts." Remove the nospam if you want to get through.

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote: > PITSTOP II! The first split screen multiplayer racer that Iknow of, >for the Commodore 64.(Was that the bbc computer in England?) No, the BBC was made by Acorn Computers who also made the Acorn Atom and the Acorn Electron way back in the early eighties. I think Acorn was bought by Olivetti. Chris * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

In message <[email hidden]> Chris Bloom <[email hidden]> wrote: > the BBC was made by Acorn Computers who also made the Acorn Atom and the > Acorn Electron way back in the early eighties. I think Acorn was bought > by Olivetti. Acorn had a bit of a financial wobbler in 85/86 becase they wasted lots of money trying to get into the American market. As you would expect, the Americans were not too keen, so stomped on them. Olivetti purchased an ~80% stake in Acorn, and it was gradually reducd over ten or so years. Acorn made 32-bit ARM-powered desktop computers, the Archimedes, and in 1994, the Risc PC (StrongARM powered since 1996). Oddly, their expertise here helped them make set-top boxes and NCs. In 1998, Acorn stopped making desktop computers, and was split: Element 14 was formed from some of the brains, and the rest was sold to Pace (who wanted the STB technology). Some links: http://www.pacemicro.com http://www.element14.com or http://www.e14.com http://www.castle.org.uk http://www.riscstation.co.uk http://www.drobe.co.uk http://www.acornusers.org http://www.riscos.com I just wanted to squeeze that in! :-) -- Richard. "'Cause I don't care too much for money, money can't buy me love."

Ahhhh.....Chequered Flag for the speccy.....the memories :) Paul Richard and its big long straight......what a game! :) I got it with "Horace goes skiing" / "Chess" / "Scrabble" and another too that where crap.....my first computer....a rubber keyed speccy. Ash Phil Lee <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kY0L4.113$[email hidden]... | The first racing sim I ever remember was Revs on the BBC Model B. My mate | had one and I was always around their trying to make it aroundSilverstone. | I remember it seemed as difficult and accurate as GPL seems today. | | The other racing sim which stands out is Chequered Flag for the Spectrum. | This was the first sim I ever owned, back in 1983 I think. I still havethe

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| tape somwhere. I remember it was a very expensive �5.95 and was published | by Psion (they of the personal organisers). | | Of course of the newer sims GPL is the title with stands over all others. | So far no commercial sim has come close to it IMO. | | Cheers | | Phil | | -- | http://www.youpies.co.uk | | | |

It was excellent....I played it on the AMIGA Ash Erwan Gourvenec <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vk3L4.2490$[email hidden]...

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| My first sim ever ? | "VROOM" in my very very old ATARI computer. | Does some1 here know this game ? | It was great at his time. | | Remco Moedt <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message : | [email hidden]... | > "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote: | > | > >Also, including sims like F1RS is a little vague, they set no new

ground

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| in | > >racing sims, and are therfore not so much of a groundbreaker. | > | > Hmm, I disagree....F1RS was the first sim with a "roostertail" and | > dynamic weather. The fog was overdone, I remember I was lost | > on the secundairy roads at Silverstone a few times.... <g> | > | > Remco | > | |

I seem to think the old flight sims (not PC ones for those who may be confused) worked in a similar way, the pilot would in fact be controlling a camera that flew across a miniture world. Chris In article <ClcRZEAepf$[email hidden]>, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> wrote: >Well, this old memory came back to me the other day and I'vebeen >looking for and excuse to post it. It's not entirelyappropriate but >what the heck, I'm sure there are those who will find this ofinterest. >:) > >The first sim that I ever clapped eyes on was way back in thelate 60s >early 70s. It was, from what I can recall, it was in thisdarkened room >all on its own and consisted of the shell of a Lotus (wheelsand all) >with steering wheel and pedals that the driver could sit in(though no >overalls and helmet required :)), and it was set in front of abig >screen some 4 or so feet square on which was displayed thetrack as the >driver moved along. It was very popular and there was quite aqueue to >have a go. Unfortunately I was too young to try it myself -there's no >way I would have been able to reach the pedals - but I was ableto look >behind the screen to see how it all worked. :) > >Basically it was a mini-camera suspended just above the trackof a full >minature 3d model of a circuit (don't remember which one) andthis image >was fed to the back side of the large, translucent display sothat as >the camera moved along above the track, presumably directed bythe >driver's inputs, it gave a pretty good 3 dimensional sense ofmotion. > >I can't remember if there was any sound but do recall that thetrack was >flat which I expect it needed to be. To me this was verysophisticated >for its day, well beyond anything else for years to come and Iwonder >now what ever became of it. It's a shame I was too young tohave been >able to appreciate it for myself. Does anyone else rememberanything

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>like this at all? >-- >Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) > >No person's opinions can be said to be >more correct than another's, because each is >the sole judge of his or her own experience. > >

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Hehe yeah it was =) Never went that fast before in a car, and haven't much since (tho all have been riding with my dad in that Camaro =) Hard Drivin...why did I forget that? I've been scouring the net lately trying to find some version of it for my PC...best...well, only =( version I have is a Genesis port on the Genecyst emulator...looks good but due to the oh-too-true-to-life emulation of the Genesis it bogs down whenever it would have on a Genesis... =( That was a fun game...supposedly some people are working on getting the actual arcade version supported in MAME, but I haven't even seen a ROM for download... You worked on them? You wouldn't happen to have any better version that can run on a PC (there's a PC version and possibly the original out there, but I can't find either...) would you? =) -- Kirk Lane [email hidden] [email hidden] ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "Yeah you won't find me I'm going MIA Tonight I'm leaving Going MIA Getting lost in you again Is better than being known" -Foo Fighters, "MIA"

Peter Ives <[email hidden]> wrote: [snip - comment below]

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>The first sim that I ever clapped eyes on was way back in the late 60s >early 70s. It was, from what I can recall, it was in this darkened room >all on its own and consisted of the shell of a Lotus (wheels and all) >with steering wheel and pedals that the driver could sit in (though no >overalls and helmet required :)), and it was set in front of a big >screen some 4 or so feet square on which was displayed the track as the >driver moved along. It was very popular and there was quite a queue to >have a go. Unfortunately I was too young to try it myself - there's no >way I would have been able to reach the pedals - but I was able to look >behind the screen to see how it all worked. :) > >Basically it was a mini-camera suspended just above the track of a full >minature 3d model of a circuit (don't remember which one) and this image >was fed to the back side of the large, translucent display so that as >the camera moved along above the track, presumably directed by the >driver's inputs, it gave a pretty good 3 dimensional sense of motion. > >I can't remember if there was any sound but do recall that the track was >flat which I expect it needed to be. To me this was very sophisticated >for its day, well beyond anything else for years to come and I wonder >now what ever became of it. It's a shame I was too young to have been >able to appreciate it for myself. Does anyone else remember anything >like this at all?

Some time ago, I saw an episode of an old UK TV show. I think it is called "The Avengers", but I'm not sure - Diana Rigg and Patrick Macgee (sp?) as agents for some sort of secret service. Made in the early to mid 60s, I think. Anyway, in this episode, somebody (the murder victim? the murderer?) owned a simulator which resembled closely the setup you're describing: an entire formula racecar (might have been a 1.5l F1) placed in front of a screen, with the action on the screen apparently influenced by the actions of the driver. To me, it looked like a film was simply projected on the screen and the input didn't really affect the action, but then, it also might have been a real simulator like the one you've seen. One special effect of the machine in the show wouldn't have been part of public demonstrations, though: every time the driver hit the guardrails, he received an electrical shock representing the damage he would have taken in real life. Needless to say that our hero had to drive without brakes in the end, and the villain had set the shock to lethal levels. :) -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome. [email hidden] \ Spam (UCE) is not welcome will lead to the cancellation \ of your account. I mean it. Spammer, you have been warned.

Great post, here's my story: Sometime in the 1960's I drove a similar "model board" driving simulator. I was also a kid, but just big enough to reach the pedals and drive it. This was at the Liberty Mutual Insurance test center outside Boston, MA, USA -- they were interested in driving simulators (and many other sorts of research) to see what they could to reduce their losses (less accidents = more profit for the insurance company). This simulator didn't have a camera...instead it had a very small, very-bright clear light bulb(!) suspended over the model. The model village was made from various transparent and translucent plastics, so the shadows from the bright filament (nearly a point source) were directly projected on the back of the screen (no lenses at all). Of course for this to work, the light was stationary relative to the screen, so the model (perhaps 5 foot (1.5m) diameter) was mounted on a complex rotating and translating base that moved under control of the throttle, brake and steering wheel. I vaguely remember seeing lots of linkage and aircraft control cables, as well as some good sized motors to move the model around at varying speeds. I remember that when I started to go off the road, someone was standing behind the screen and he lifted the light to prevent the hot bulb from burning the scenery!! The visual effect on the screen was that I flew over the house that I was about to crash into -- very puzzling at first, then really funny after I realized what was going on. -- Doug Douglas Milliken <[email hidden]> Milliken Research Associates Inc. On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Peter Ives wrote:

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> The first sim that I ever clapped eyes on was way back in the late 60s > early 70s. It was, from what I can recall, it was in this darkened room > all on its own and consisted of the shell of a Lotus (wheels and all) > with steering wheel and pedals that the driver could sit in (though no > overalls and helmet required :)), and it was set in front of a big > screen some 4 or so feet square on which was displayed the track as the > driver moved along. It was very popular and there was quite a queue to > have a go. Unfortunately I was too young to try it myself - there's no > way I would have been able to reach the pedals - but I was able to look > behind the screen to see how it all worked. :) > > Basically it was a mini-camera suspended just above the track of a full > minature 3d model of a circuit (don't remember which one) and this image > was fed to the back side of the large, translucent display so that as > the camera moved along above the track, presumably directed by the > driver's inputs, it gave a pretty good 3 dimensional sense of motion. > > I can't remember if there was any sound but do recall that the track was > flat which I expect it needed to be. To me this was very sophisticated > for its day, well beyond anything else for years to come and I wonder > now what ever became of it. It's a shame I was too young to have been > able to appreciate it for myself. Does anyone else remember anything > like this at all?

On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Kirk Lane wrote:

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> Hard Drivin...why did I forget that? I've been scouring the net lately > trying to find some version of it for my PC...best...well, only =( version I > have is a Genesis port on the Genecyst emulator...looks good but due to the > oh-too-true-to-life emulation of the Genesis it bogs down whenever it would > have on a Genesis... =( > > That was a fun game...supposedly some people are working on getting the > actual arcade version supported in MAME, but I haven't even seen a ROM for > download... > > You worked on them? You wouldn't happen to have any better version that can > run on a PC (there's a PC version and possibly the original out there, but I > can't find either...) would you? =)

Well, I've got the real thing in the garage<grin>, set on freeplay. The force feedback motor is bigger than a washing machine motor and is direct drive, so the friction is very low, no cogging gears or belts, etc. I've heard that there were various ports done, but this was long after I consulted on the game. It would have been tricky to do a direct PC port of the whole game, since the arcade game used 5 or 6 different processors including several DSP's. The "logical" successor to Hard Drivin' is Silicon Speedway -- 4 of the original 5 person team that did HD are now working at Silicon Entertainment. These 4 people are the core engineers -- see at <http://www.smsonline.com>. -- Doug Douglas Milliken <[email hidden]> Milliken Research Associates Inc.

You lucky dog =) -- Kirk Lane ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "Yeah you won't find me I'm going MIA Tonight I'm leaving Going MIA Getting lost in you again Is better than being known" -Foo Fighters, "MIA"

In article <[email hidden]>, Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> writes

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> >Great post, here's my story: > >Sometime in the 1960's I drove a similar "model board" driving simulator. >I was also a kid, but just big enough to reach the pedals and drive it. > >This was at the Liberty Mutual Insurance test center outside Boston, MA, >USA -- they were interested in driving simulators (and many other sorts of >research) to see what they could to reduce their losses (less accidents = >more profit for the insurance company). > >This simulator didn't have a camera...instead it had a very small, >very-bright clear light bulb(!) suspended over the model. The model >village was made from various transparent and translucent plastics, so the >shadows from the bright filament (nearly a point source) were directly >projected on the back of the screen (no lenses at all). Of course for this >to work, the light was stationary relative to the screen, so the model >(perhaps 5 foot (1.5m) diameter) was mounted on a complex rotating and >translating base that moved under control of the throttle, brake and >steering wheel. I vaguely remember seeing lots of linkage and aircraft >control cables, as well as some good sized motors to move the model >around >at varying speeds. >

I'm not entirely sure that my memory is completely accurate and it may well be that is how the system I saw worked. It's a bit fuzzy as to whether the camera like device moved above the landscape or the landscape moved below the device. From what fleeting images I can recall I don't remember the camera/device being anywhere else apart from on the near side of the circuit, that is nearest to the screen, so it may not have been a camera at all but some kind of plight source as in the system you got to try. The fact that the image was cast on the back side of the screen that the driver was viewing sounds extremely similar in both instances. Either way, it was amazing for its time and I would love to find out more info on this, if at all possible.

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>I remember that when I started to go off the road, someone was standing >behind the screen and he lifted the light to prevent the hot bulb from >burning the scenery!! The visual effect on the screen was that I flew over >the house that I was about to crash into -- very puzzling at first, then >really funny after I realized what was going on. > >-- Doug > Douglas Milliken <[email hidden]> > Milliken Research Associates Inc. > > >

<snip> -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

> Well, I've got the real thing in the garage<grin>, set on freeplay. You lucky dog =) -- Kirk Lane [email hidden] [email hidden] ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "Yeah you won't find me I'm going MIA Tonight I'm leaving Going MIA Getting lost in you again Is better than being known" -Foo Fighters, "MIA"

On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Peter Ives wrote:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, Doug Milliken > <[email hidden]> writes > > > >very-bright clear light bulb(!) suspended over the model. The model > >village was made from various transparent and translucent plastics, so the > >shadows from the bright filament (nearly a point source) were directly > I'm not entirely sure that my memory is completely accurate and it may > well be that is how the system I saw worked. It's a bit fuzzy as to > whether the camera like device moved above the landscape or the > landscape moved below the device. From what fleeting images I can

..... > in both instances. Either way, it was amazing for its time and I would > love to find out more info on this, if at all possible. That is about the extent of my memory -- I must have been about 10 at the time (mid 60's) so my memory isn't all that good either(!) I suppose you could contact the Liberty Mutual insurance co. and see if they still have the research center in Hopkinton, MA (outside Boston). -- Doug Milliken

yeah liked that game......pitstop ii... esp when u over fill ur tanks & the car caught fire.. one of my first ever sims on a pc was Test Drive. Not a f1 sim, but a predessor of the NFS5. Point to point racing with cops on ur tail....It was in CGA btw!!! any one remembers spy hunter?

Hey Y EAH!!!!!! I remember that one!!!!! I must have been like 4yrs old when my love affair with the car began. I remember it now. The camera was fixed with a rolling oval track running beneath, projected to a screen.. There was sound, but the engine seem not to rev about 1500rpms.I dun remember whether u could crash the thing or not. WOW!! I wonder if anyone still has one in his/her garage? that must be the first sim I ever experienced!!! Peter Ives wrote:

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> Well, this old memory came back to me the other day and I've been > looking for and excuse to post it. It's not entirely appropriate but > what the heck, I'm sure there are those who will find this of interest. > :) > > The first sim that I ever clapped eyes on was way back in the late 60s > early 70s. It was, from what I can recall, it was in this darkened room > all on its own and consisted of the shell of a Lotus (wheels and all) > with steering wheel and pedals that the driver could sit in (though no > overalls and helmet required :)), and it was set in front of a big > screen some 4 or so feet square on which was displayed the track as the > driver moved along. It was very popular and there was quite a queue to > have a go. Unfortunately I was too young to try it myself - there's no > way I would have been able to reach the pedals - but I was able to look > behind the screen to see how it all worked. :) > > Basically it was a mini-camera suspended just above the track of a full > minature 3d model of a circuit (don't remember which one) and this image > was fed to the back side of the large, translucent display so that as > the camera moved along above the track, presumably directed by the > driver's inputs, it gave a pretty good 3 dimensional sense of motion. > > I can't remember if there was any sound but do recall that the track was > flat which I expect it needed to be. To me this was very sophisticated > for its day, well beyond anything else for years to come and I wonder > now what ever became of it. It's a shame I was too young to have been > able to appreciate it for myself. Does anyone else remember anything > like this at all? > -- > Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) > > No person's opinions can be said to be > more correct than another's, because each is > the sole judge of his or her own experience.

In article <[email hidden]>, cory tan <[email hidden]> writes: >yeah liked that game......pitstop ii... >esp when u over fill ur tanks & the car caught fire.. >one of my first ever sims on a pc was Test Drive. Not a f1 sim, but a >predessor of >the NFS5. Point to point racing with cops on ur tail....It was in CGA btw!!! >any one remembers spy hunter? Spy Hunter? Ooh, I dropped MANY quarters in that one... Absolutely one of my favorite arcade games... I'm trying to find it on the NES or Playstation...<fat chance, huh?> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 28 Apr 2000 01:13:40 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, cory tan ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>yeah liked that game......pitstop ii... >>esp when u over fill ur tanks & the car caught fire.. >>one of my first ever sims on a pc was Test Drive. Not a f1 sim, but a >>predessor of >>the NFS5. Point to point racing with cops on ur tail....It was in CGA btw!!! >>any one remembers spy hunter? > >Spy Hunter? Ooh, I dropped MANY quarters in that one... Absolutely one of my >favorite arcade games... I'm trying to find it on the NES or >Playstation...<fat chance, huh?>

Hmm, Spy Hunter, that was a nice game. I played that one on the C64. You may have more luck trying to find it for THAT machine. I mean emulator :) Frodo for example. The first driving 'sim' I saw was on the Philips Videopac game machine (a little later than the Atari2600). Videopac #4. Driving around with single-colored sprites on a very blocky circuit :) But it was fun! And Pole position at that time was THE driving game on the Atari. The games that are most memorable for me were the Driving game for the Intellivision (still sorry to see they're not easily available somewher), Revs on the C64, and Stunt Car Racer (Amiga). The last one was great. Great feel. Too bad I haven't seen it since for ANY platform that can be emulated on my PC. :( Now, GPL is my favorite, and F12K is cool. Oh, and that vertical scroller on the C64, which used to be a cartridge, that was and IS nice still. Just stepping on the gas avoiding cars left & right. If only I had the time and technical documents on car behavior, I would love to do a car simulator... One more like stunt car racer, which funny tracks, but nice dynamics. Ruud van Gaal MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery