Re: Why does nobody play NASCAR Legends?

People are playing it now, because it's the best multiplayer NASCAR (racing) sim out at the moment. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck though. hehe -- Sean Higgins Proud Member of Beaver Creek Racing Redline Racing League www.rrlnrs.com CNSRL www.cnsrl.com SKurj <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > LOL Karl > > IN YOUR OPINION it sucked bigtime, it is just N3 with different cars > models and adjusted physics to the cars of the era > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people playing it > right now? > > Martyn_D > > Karl Zosel wrote: > > > i tried the demo > > it sucked bigtime .. > > > > Since NASCAR 2, the NASCAR LINE hasn't improved at all. > > Ok, graphics look a little better, but physics and AI are worthless. > > > > Gerald Moore <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > > 8khoi0$dsa$[email hidden]... > > > I was playing online last night and it was only me and two other > > > people. Granted, it was a Tuesday night, and kinda early (8pm EDT), > > > but the N3 arenas were much more crowded. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Before you buy. >

In article <[email hidden]>, SKurj <[email hidden]> writes:

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>N3 stole Legends player base, even tho i prefer legends, its hard with >noone to race.. > >Martyn_D > >Gerald Moore wrote: > >> I was playing online last night and it was only me and two other >> people. Granted, it was a Tuesday night, and kinda early (8pm EDT), >> but the N3 arenas were much more crowded.

Is there a way to have an unnatended server for Legends? If so, I might be convinced to 'sacrifice' one of mine...<g> Failing that, when do you guys want to race? I'd like to join. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I was playing online last night and it was only me and two other people. Granted, it was a Tuesday night, and kinda early (8pm EDT), but the N3 arenas were much more crowded. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

N3 stole Legends player base, even tho i prefer legends, its hard with noone to race.. Martyn_D Gerald Moore wrote: > I was playing online last night and it was only me and two other > people. Granted, it was a Tuesday night, and kinda early (8pm EDT), > but the N3 arenas were much more crowded. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

On 12 Jul 2000 19:05:41 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Is there a way to have an unnatended server for Legends? If so, I might be >convinced to 'sacrifice' one of mine...<g> >Failing that, when do you guys want to race? I'd like to join. No no no Eldred, you're not leaving GPL untill you broke the 8:50 at the Ring, remember! Now back you go! Andre > >Eldred

Gerald Moore wrote: > I was playing online last night and it was only me and two other > people. Granted, it was a Tuesday night, and kinda early (8pm EDT), > but the N3 arenas were much more crowded. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

"Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tjtb5.341036$[email hidden]... > how do you know N4 will have an exaggerated tail happy car model if you > haven't driven it? Where did I say N4 was going to be this way, I stated that a tail happy physics engine from GPL isn't the solution. If your surmising that "Will use the GPL physics engine" > means that the game will be using GPL car modeling you're wrong. What it > means is that the game will use the same physics, with different cars,just > like in real life all the cars exist in the same physical world, but drive > very differently. > > An enhanced 3rd generation physics model (the one used in GPL) is in noway > related to the N3, N2, ICR2... physics modeling, so what your aren'tgetting Its a toned down GPl engine nothing new or enahnced about it. > with N4 is another rehashed NASCAR title. This will guarantee what youcall > "Better track physics" (what ever track physics are) Track physics are having more than one fast groove, having changing grooves during the race , have the track change due to weather changes during the race (which brings up a another thing) and definitely better > lap times and more realistic setups. As a matter of fact, I think it was > papy that said you could drop in a real setup and have the car performvery > close to it's real life counterpart. This remains to be seen I have talked to people who drove the game ay E3 and they say you can drive on the aprons through turns just Like N1-N3, this is very disappointing. > > As for AI, from what I've heard GPL is much better than the legacy NASCAR > stuff, so Papy's newest work should be an advancement over legacy NASCAR. Yes GPl has better Ai than papy's Nascar titles but they aren't that great they will battle your for about 2 laps then they give up after you pass them. > > As for online, I believe Nascar Heat will only allow something like 8 > players, It has been stated in a interview that this could possible set to a higher number which works pretty wall in N3, let alone that times you get 20 > people going good. I'm sure papy is doing what they can with current > internet architecture, which isn't great. > > FWIW, whether or not a game is bad, piracy is still robbery. If you planto > play the game, then you are morally obligated to buy the game, or not play I'm not obilgated to do nothing that I don't feel like I need to do. > it. If you decide to be one of the downfallers of society who don't thinkof > community, but only self interest, then I guess you'll just be another > person forcing the governments to make stupid laws. They do that regardless, all I meant from my post is that I will not support Papyrus once again like I have since 1994 unless the demo shows so great stuff, if it doesn't they won't get my money again. I have bought every game they have released since N1 with promises on top of promises of what th egame will have and what will get once we get the game (NROS for one and authnic Nascar racing for another) just to be jipped by them for $50 each time and I won't fall for it again. Robert

LOL No I was happy with N1 and N2 and I liked DTR I liked GP2 I liked Viper, SBK 2000 amd SCGT Robert "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > ANY SIM u've been happy with in the last 4 years Robert? > > Doubt u gonna be happy this year, or next year, ... hmm prolly not theyear

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> after either lol > > Martyn_D > ofthecupishalffulltribe > > Robert Platts wrote: > > > "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:tjtb5.341036$[email hidden]... > > > how do you know N4 will have an exaggerated tail happy car model if

you

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> > > haven't driven it? > > > > Where did I say N4 was going to be this way, I stated that a tail happy > > physics engine from GPL isn't the solution. > > > > If your surmising that "Will use the GPL physics engine" > > > means that the game will be using GPL car modeling you're wrong. What

it > > > means is that the game will use the same physics, with different cars, > > just > > > like in real life all the cars exist in the same physical world, butdrive > > > very differently. > > > > > > An enhanced 3rd generation physics model (the one used in GPL) is inno

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> > way > > > related to the N3, N2, ICR2... physics modeling, so what your aren't > > getting > > > > Its a toned down GPl engine nothing new or enahnced about it. > > > > > with N4 is another rehashed NASCAR title. This will guarantee what you > > call > > > "Better track physics" (what ever track physics are) > > > > Track physics are having more than one fast groove, having changing

grooves > > during the race , have the track change due to weather changes duringthe > > race (which brings up a another thing) > > > > and definitely better > > > lap times and more realistic setups. As a matter of fact, I think itwas > > > papy that said you could drop in a real setup and have the car perform > > very > > > close to it's real life counterpart. > > > > This remains to be seen I have talked to people who drove the game ay E3and > > they say you can drive on the aprons through turns just Like N1-N3, thisis > > very disappointing. > > > > > > As for AI, from what I've heard GPL is much better than the legacyNASCAR > > > stuff, so Papy's newest work should be an advancement over legacyNASCAR. > > > > Yes GPl has better Ai than papy's Nascar titles but they aren't thatgreat

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> > they will battle your for about 2 laps then they give up after you pass > > them. > > > > > > As for online, I believe Nascar Heat will only allow something like 8 > > > players, > > > > It has been stated in a interview that this could possible set to a

higher

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> > number > > > > which works pretty wall in N3, let alone that times you get 20 > > > people going good. I'm sure papy is doing what they can with current > > > internet architecture, which isn't great. > > > > > > FWIW, whether or not a game is bad, piracy is still robbery. If you

plan > > to > > > play the game, then you are morally obligated to buy the game, or notplay > > > > I'm not obilgated to do nothing that I don't feel like I need to do. > > > > > it. If you decide to be one of the downfallers of society who don'tthink > > of > > > community, but only self interest, then I guess you'll just be another > > > person forcing the governments to make stupid laws. > > > > They do that regardless, all I meant from my post is that I will notsupport > > Papyrus once again like I have since 1994 unless the demo shows so great > > stuff, if it doesn't they won't get my money again. I have bought everygame > > they have released since N1 with promises on top of promises of what th > > egame will have and what will get once we get the game (NROS for oneand > > authnic Nascar racing for another) just to be jipped by them for $50each > > time and I won't fall for it again. > > > > Robert >

In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> writes:

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>On 12 Jul 2000 19:05:41 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>Is there a way to have an unnatended server for Legends? If so, I might be >>convinced to 'sacrifice' one of mine...<g> >>Failing that, when do you guys want to race? I'd like to join. > >No no no Eldred, you're not leaving GPL untill you broke the 8:50 at >the Ring, remember! Now back you go! > >Andre

Argh - I need a break from GPL. It was *that* close to being deleted off my hard drive. It kept pissing me off... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

My point was int he first sentence the reason ebveryone is playing N3 is because they have had nobody to compete with. As for the Ai that is all you left with unless youa re one of the lucky ones that have access to high speed internet connections and even then people are still complaining about N3 and Won sucking worse than any multiplayer format we have ever had for racing. As for racing real people I rather do taht aswell but 90% of the people who race on Won are newbies who don't care about racing all they care about is seeing wrecks and I am one the vets that Frank was speakign of in another post and I won't race in that crap.Plus I 'm one of the many who believe for a game to be good oneline it has to be good offline aswell, because before you go online (newbies) you need to get use to traffic offline and learn how to control you car and run in a pack and to many people don't do that now as it is. Robert "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hmmm > > And your reply to this Thread is.....? > I don't see it anywhere in here... > > And who cares about how good the AI is... I haven't raced against any AIin over > a year. I'd rather race real people. I'd rather see sim developersconcentrate

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> on everything related to multiplayer than waste time on AI. > > Martyn_D > > > Robert Platts wrote: > > > Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to

compete > > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked Nascar1 > > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus game, > > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played thepress > > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alotcompared > > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSCbesides > > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does alot tothe > > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated tail happy physics engine > > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a GPL > > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai andway > > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic valuesnot > > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in allthe > > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let mesay > > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in their > > first press release version and the actual setup settings use realvalues > > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly aswelland > > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would haveburnt it

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> > for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance. > > > > Robert GT86 Platts > > www.bhmotorsports.com > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:hSab5.90619$[email hidden]... > > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people

playing

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> > it > > > > right now? > > > > > > Pity ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests! > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > realise > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <wGhb5.1753$[email hidden]>, "Gary Creswell" <[email hidden]> wrote: > We have openings in our Tuesday races. stop by the site > http://www.aoneremodeling.com/Legends/index.htm > > Thanks, I will. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Hate to burst ya bubble but the racing on Won is 70% or more drop in quality than what we had on Ten or Hawaii. Yes 90% of the people one Won are newbies, atleast newbies to me , and what I mean by this is people that were not racing N2 online on Ten and never raced a Nascar game from papy online until N3, they are either newbies your children , and both are bad for online racing. As for my connection, my connection isn't bad and connections don't have anything to do with bad online racing. Papyrus has stated many times over that the best speed for online racing in 19200 kbs. The problem with the warping online is the coding in the game with wall warps and the prediction coding, this is a very well known fact has been a known problem in papys games since N1. Yes there is alot more wrecks in open races , and it has doubled since Ten. As for leagues I am in two and they both have good drivers in it but because of the crap multiplayer coding in the game there are still way to many yellows, for example when you race at Atlanta online there is a bad problem with the cars warping on the front stretch and Dobver has the same problem when you enter T3 and exit T4, its what we call side warp. I never said any of the upcoming games would fix the problems all I said is that N4 will have to have alot int he demo to impress me enough to buy the game. I am not like the majority of people on her ethat judge games and say games goign to be arcadish or great by looking at screenshots. Heres little tid bit for you guys alot of the papyrus screen shots are artist rendered shots which make them look better than what they are. Papy has been know to do this for many years its nothing new and its not a insult , its just a trick to make screen shots look better for people to look at. Robert "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Heh mebbe so that nobody is competing, however N3 was not the only nascarsim to > come out the last 18 months. > 90% of the people on Won I doubt are newbies > How do you account for the leagues? (alot of them) > The reason N3 is being played alot and doing well, is because NOTHING eslecould > touch it. The competition sucked for one reason or another. > Do a survey on Won, u'll find as I do, that STILL the majority of onlinegamers > are on dialup (jus cuz yer connect sux doesn't mean everyone else's does) > Sure ppl whine about connects on Won, And they'll whine about NH, andthey'll > whine about N4, and they'll whine about etc etc etc.... > Sure there are alotta wrecks on Won in Open races, hmmm but wow thats thesame > as ANY race sim online when racing in OPEN races. > > If u think NH or N4 or ANY of the upcoming sims will fix ANY of theabove(with

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> the exception of competition fer N3), I want a pound of whatever it is you > smokin > > Martyn_D > > Robert Platts wrote: > > > My point was int he first sentence the reason ebveryone is playing N3 is > > because they have had nobody to compete with. As for the Ai that is all

you > > left with unless youa re one of the lucky ones that have access to high > > speed internet connections and even then people are still complainingabout > > N3 and Won sucking worse than any multiplayer format we have ever hadfor > > racing. As for racing real people I rather do taht aswell but 90% of the > > people who race on Won are newbies who don't care about racing all theycare > > about is seeing wrecks and I am one the vets that Frank was speakign ofin

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> > another post and I won't race in that crap.Plus I 'm one of the many who > > believe for a game to be good oneline it has to be good offline aswell, > > because before you go online (newbies) you need to get use to traffic > > offline and learn how to control you car and run in a pack and to many > > people don't do that now as it is. > > > > Robert > > > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Hmmm > > > > > > And your reply to this Thread is.....? > > > I don't see it anywhere in here... > > > > > > And who cares about how good the AI is... I haven't raced against any

AI

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> > in over > > > a year. I'd rather race real people. I'd rather see sim developers > > concentrate > > > on everything related to multiplayer than waste time on AI. > > > > > > Martyn_D > > > > > > > > > Robert Platts wrote: > > > > > > > Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to > > compete > > > > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked

Nascar > > 1 > > > > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrusgame > > , > > > > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I playedthe > > press > > > > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot > > compared > > > > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC > > besides > > > > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really doesalot to > > the > > > > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated tail happy physicsengine > > > > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than aGPL > > > > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Aiand > > way > > > > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realisticvalues > > not > > > > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen inall > > the > > > > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Letme > > say > > > > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was intheir > > > > first press release version and the actual setup settings use real > > values > > > > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticlyaswell

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> > and > > > > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have > > burnt it > > > > for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance. > > > > > > > > Robert GT86 Platts > > > > www.bhmotorsports.com > > > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:hSab5.90619$[email hidden]... > > > > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people > > playing > > > > it > > > > > > right now? > > > > > > > > > > Pity ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests! > > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they

don't

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> > > > realise > > > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>I've only tried the demos of both, but they both felt the same to me. IMO, the cars are "looser" in NL Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

> I was playing online last night and it was only me and two other >> > > people. Granted, it was a Tuesday night, and kinda early (8pm EDT), >> > > but the N3 arenas were much more crowded. I think N3 is easier to drive than NL...so the lil kiddies like that. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to compete with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked Nascar 1 with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus game , i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played the press release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot compared to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC besides that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does alot to the demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated tail happy physics engine being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a GPL physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai and way better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic values not the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in all the other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let me say this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in their first press release version and the actual setup settings use real values and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly aswell and the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have burnt it for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance. Robert GT86 Platts www.bhmotorsports.com "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hSab5.90619$[email hidden]... > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people playingit

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> > right now? > > Pity ;) > > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests! > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > >

LOL Karl IN YOUR OPINION it sucked bigtime, it is just N3 with different cars models and adjusted physics to the cars of the era And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people playing it right now? Martyn_D Karl Zosel wrote:

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> i tried the demo > it sucked bigtime .. > > Since NASCAR 2, the NASCAR LINE hasn't improved at all. > Ok, graphics look a little better, but physics and AI are worthless. > > Gerald Moore <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > 8khoi0$dsa$[email hidden]... > > I was playing online last night and it was only me and two other > > people. Granted, it was a Tuesday night, and kinda early (8pm EDT), > > but the N3 arenas were much more crowded. > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy.

i tried the demo it sucked bigtime .. Since NASCAR 2, the NASCAR LINE hasn't improved at all. Ok, graphics look a little better, but physics and AI are worthless. Gerald Moore <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws 8khoi0$dsa$[email hidden]...

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> I was playing online last night and it was only me and two other > people. Granted, it was a Tuesday night, and kinda early (8pm EDT), > but the N3 arenas were much more crowded. > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

"SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people playing it > right now? Pity ;) -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests! -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On 13 Jul 2000 03:02:25 GMT, [email hidden] (Target 12) thus spoke: >I think N3 is easier to drive than NL...so the lil kiddies like that. I've only tried the demos of both, but they both felt the same to me. -- Nos

We have openings in our Tuesday races. stop by the site http://www.aoneremodeling.com/Legends/index.htm

Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to compete with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked Nascar 1 with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus game , i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played the press release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot compared to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC besides that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does alot to the demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated tail happy physics engine being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a GPL physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai and way better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic values not the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in all the other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let me say this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in their first press release version and the actual setup settings use real values and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly aswell and the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have burnt it for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance. Robert GT86 Platts www.bhmotorsports.com > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people playing it

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> > right now? > Pity ;) > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests! > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people playing it > right now? Because they are all stupid bastards. Just like me :)

Hmmm And your reply to this Thread is.....? I don't see it anywhere in here... And who cares about how good the AI is... I haven't raced against any AI in over a year. I'd rather race real people. I'd rather see sim developers concentrate on everything related to multiplayer than waste time on AI. Martyn_D Robert Platts wrote:

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> Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to compete > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked Nascar 1 > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus game , > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played the press > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot compared > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC besides > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does alot to the > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated tail happy physics engine > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a GPL > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai and way > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic values not > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in all the > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let me say > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in their > first press release version and the actual setup settings use real values > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly aswell and > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have burnt it > for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance. > > Robert GT86 Platts > www.bhmotorsports.com > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:hSab5.90619$[email hidden]... > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people playing > it > > > right now? > > > > Pity ;) > > > > > > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests! > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > >

On 13 Jul 2000 16:45:49 GMT, [email hidden] (Target 12) thus spoke: >IMO, the cars are "looser" in NL If I could find the Acceleration Pack I would buy it. Buy.com has it for $41.95 CDN, but they want $14.00 for shipping on top of that. With N4 not too far away I don't want to spend too much on N3/NL and everywhere else wants close to $70.00 CDN for the Acceleration Pack. -- Nos

Heh mebbe so that nobody is competing, however N3 was not the only nascar sim to come out the last 18 months. 90% of the people on Won I doubt are newbies How do you account for the leagues? (alot of them) The reason N3 is being played alot and doing well, is because NOTHING esle could touch it. The competition sucked for one reason or another. Do a survey on Won, u'll find as I do, that STILL the majority of online gamers are on dialup (jus cuz yer connect sux doesn't mean everyone else's does) Sure ppl whine about connects on Won, And they'll whine about NH, and they'll whine about N4, and they'll whine about etc etc etc.... Sure there are alotta wrecks on Won in Open races, hmmm but wow thats the same as ANY race sim online when racing in OPEN races. If u think NH or N4 or ANY of the upcoming sims will fix ANY of the above(with the exception of competition fer N3), I want a pound of whatever it is you smokin Martyn_D Robert Platts wrote:

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> My point was int he first sentence the reason ebveryone is playing N3 is > because they have had nobody to compete with. As for the Ai that is all you > left with unless youa re one of the lucky ones that have access to high > speed internet connections and even then people are still complaining about > N3 and Won sucking worse than any multiplayer format we have ever had for > racing. As for racing real people I rather do taht aswell but 90% of the > people who race on Won are newbies who don't care about racing all they care > about is seeing wrecks and I am one the vets that Frank was speakign of in > another post and I won't race in that crap.Plus I 'm one of the many who > believe for a game to be good oneline it has to be good offline aswell, > because before you go online (newbies) you need to get use to traffic > offline and learn how to control you car and run in a pack and to many > people don't do that now as it is. > > Robert > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Hmmm > > > > And your reply to this Thread is.....? > > I don't see it anywhere in here... > > > > And who cares about how good the AI is... I haven't raced against any AI > in over > > a year. I'd rather race real people. I'd rather see sim developers > concentrate > > on everything related to multiplayer than waste time on AI. > > > > Martyn_D > > > > > > Robert Platts wrote: > > > > > Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to > compete > > > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked Nascar > 1 > > > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus game > , > > > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played the > press > > > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot > compared > > > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC > besides > > > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does alot to > the > > > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated tail happy physics engine > > > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a GPL > > > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai and > way > > > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic values > not > > > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in all > the > > > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let me > say > > > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in their > > > first press release version and the actual setup settings use real > values > > > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly aswell > and > > > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have > burnt it > > > for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance. > > > > > > Robert GT86 Platts > > > www.bhmotorsports.com > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:hSab5.90619$[email hidden]... > > > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people > playing > > > it > > > > > right now? > > > > > > > > Pity ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests! > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > > realise > > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ya still never did state why people aren't racing NL much, tho of course the answer is obvious, N3 stole the crowd, possibly poor marketing on Sierra's part, tho likely not. Likely just another repackage to make more money off the old engine. Martyn_D We're all entitled to our OWN opinions, I will buy N4, not sure about NH. GP3.... doubtful, wings belong on aeroplanes +) back to GPL... Robert Platts wrote:

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> Hate to burst ya bubble but the racing on Won is 70% or more drop in > quality than what we had on Ten or Hawaii. Yes 90% of the people one Won are > newbies, atleast newbies to me , and what I mean by this is people that were > not racing N2 online on Ten and never raced a Nascar game from papy online > until N3, they are either newbies your children , and both are bad for > online racing. As for my connection, my connection isn't bad and connections > don't have anything to do with bad online racing. Papyrus has stated many > times over that the best speed for online racing in 19200 kbs. The problem > with the warping online is the coding in the game with wall warps and the > prediction coding, this is a very well known fact has been a known problem > in papys games since N1. Yes there is alot more wrecks in open races , and > it has doubled since Ten. As for leagues I am in two and they both have good > drivers in it but because of the crap multiplayer coding in the game there > are still way to many yellows, for example when you race at Atlanta online > there is a bad problem with the cars warping on the front stretch and > Dobver has the same problem when you enter T3 and exit T4, its what we call > side warp. I never said any of the upcoming games would fix the problems all > I said is that N4 will have to have alot int he demo to impress me enough to > buy the game. I am not like the majority of people on her ethat judge games > and say games goign to be arcadish or great by looking at screenshots. Heres > little tid bit for you guys alot of the papyrus screen shots are artist > rendered > shots which make them look better than what they are. Papy has been know to > do this for many years its nothing new and its not a insult , its just a > trick to make screen shots look better for people to look at. > > Robert > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Heh mebbe so that nobody is competing, however N3 was not the only nascar > sim to > > come out the last 18 months. > > 90% of the people on Won I doubt are newbies > > How do you account for the leagues? (alot of them) > > The reason N3 is being played alot and doing well, is because NOTHING esle > could > > touch it. The competition sucked for one reason or another. > > Do a survey on Won, u'll find as I do, that STILL the majority of online > gamers > > are on dialup (jus cuz yer connect sux doesn't mean everyone else's does) > > Sure ppl whine about connects on Won, And they'll whine about NH, and > they'll > > whine about N4, and they'll whine about etc etc etc.... > > Sure there are alotta wrecks on Won in Open races, hmmm but wow thats the > same > > as ANY race sim online when racing in OPEN races. > > > > If u think NH or N4 or ANY of the upcoming sims will fix ANY of the > above(with > > the exception of competition fer N3), I want a pound of whatever it is you > > smokin > > > > Martyn_D > > > > Robert Platts wrote: > > > > > My point was int he first sentence the reason ebveryone is playing N3 is > > > because they have had nobody to compete with. As for the Ai that is all > you > > > left with unless youa re one of the lucky ones that have access to high > > > speed internet connections and even then people are still complaining > about > > > N3 and Won sucking worse than any multiplayer format we have ever had > for > > > racing. As for racing real people I rather do taht aswell but 90% of the > > > people who race on Won are newbies who don't care about racing all they > care > > > about is seeing wrecks and I am one the vets that Frank was speakign of > in > > > another post and I won't race in that crap.Plus I 'm one of the many who > > > believe for a game to be good oneline it has to be good offline aswell, > > > because before you go online (newbies) you need to get use to traffic > > > offline and learn how to control you car and run in a pack and to many > > > people don't do that now as it is. > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Hmmm > > > > > > > > And your reply to this Thread is.....? > > > > I don't see it anywhere in here... > > > > > > > > And who cares about how good the AI is... I haven't raced against any > AI > > > in over > > > > a year. I'd rather race real people. I'd rather see sim developers > > > concentrate > > > > on everything related to multiplayer than waste time on AI. > > > > > > > > Martyn_D > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert Platts wrote: > > > > > > > > > Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to > > > compete > > > > > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked > Nascar > > > 1 > > > > > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus > game > > > , > > > > > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played > the > > > press > > > > > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot > > > compared > > > > > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC > > > besides > > > > > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does > alot to > > > the > > > > > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated tail happy physics > engine > > > > > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a > GPL > > > > > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai > and > > > way > > > > > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic > values > > > not > > > > > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in > all > > > the > > > > > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let > me > > > say > > > > > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in > their > > > > > first press release version and the actual setup settings use real > > > values > > > > > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly > aswell > > > and > > > > > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have > > > burnt it > > > > > for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance. > > > > > > > > > > Robert GT86 Platts > > > > > www.bhmotorsports.com > > > > > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:hSab5.90619$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people > > > playing > > > > > it > > > > > > > right now? > > > > > > > > > > > > Pity ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests! > > > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they > don't > > > > > realise > > > > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Don't listen to the nasty man Eldred <g> Take a break form anything remotely driving related for a while. How about SoS? :-) -- -Ace- (GPLRank +4.88) EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa > <[email hidden]> writes: > >No no no Eldred, you're not leaving GPL untill you broke the 8:50 at > >the Ring, remember! Now back you go! > > > >Andre > > Argh - I need a break from GPL. It was *that* close to being deleted off my > hard drive. It kept pissing me off... > > Eldred > --

In article <8klida$d35$[email hidden]>, "Ace" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Don't listen to the nasty man Eldred <g> Take a break form anything remotely >driving related for a while. How about SoS? :-) >-- >-Ace- >(GPLRank +4.88) > >EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >No no no Eldred, you're not leaving GPL untill you broke the 8:50 at >> >the Ring, remember! Now back you go! >> > >> >Andre >> >> Argh - I need a break from GPL. It was *that* close to being deleted off >my >> hard drive. It kept pissing me off... >> >> Eldred >> --

Egads...maybe if SoS was *free*...<g> I jerry-rigged my TSW pedals, because I couldn't find the replacement pot I had ordered. I took the one from the clutch pedal...:) Gotta order another replacement... I just bought F1 2K from someone on Ebay. I can't get it to recognize my TSW split axis. My phone line was down last night, so I had to wait until today at work to download the 1.09 patch. Will that fix the controller issues? This think reminds me of F1 by Psygnosis(look and feel)... HELP!<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

how do you know N4 will have an exaggerated tail happy car model if you haven't driven it? If your surmising that "Will use the GPL physics engine" means that the game will be using GPL car modeling you're wrong. What it means is that the game will use the same physics, with different cars, just like in real life all the cars exist in the same physical world, but drive very differently. An enhanced 3rd generation physics model (the one used in GPL) is in no way related to the N3, N2, ICR2... physics modeling, so what your aren't getting with N4 is another rehashed NASCAR title. This will guarantee what you call "Better track physics" (what ever track physics are) and definitely better lap times and more realistic setups. As a matter of fact, I think it was papy that said you could drop in a real setup and have the car perform very close to it's real life counterpart. As for AI, from what I've heard GPL is much better than the legacy NASCAR stuff, so Papy's newest work should be an advancement over legacy NASCAR. As for online, I believe Nascar Heat will only allow something like 8 players, which works pretty wall in N3, let alone that times you get 20 people going good. I'm sure papy is doing what they can with current internet architecture, which isn't great. FWIW, whether or not a game is bad, piracy is still robbery. If you plan to play the game, then you are morally obligated to buy the game, or not play it. If you decide to be one of the downfallers of society who don't think of community, but only self interest, then I guess you'll just be another person forcing the governments to make stupid laws. Robert Platts <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to compete > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked Nascar 1 > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus game , > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played thepress > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alotcompared > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC besides > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does alot tothe > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated tail happy physics engine > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a GPL > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai and way > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic valuesnot > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in all the > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let me say > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in their > first press release version and the actual setup settings use real values > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly aswelland > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have burntit

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> for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance. > > > > Robert GT86 Platts > www.bhmotorsports.com > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:hSab5.90619$[email hidden]... > > "SKurj" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people playing > it > > > right now? > > > > Pity ;) > > > > > > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests! > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > >

ANY SIM u've been happy with in the last 4 years Robert? Doubt u gonna be happy this year, or next year, ... hmm prolly not the year after either lol Martyn_D ofthecupishalffulltribe Robert Platts wrote:

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> "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tjtb5.341036$[email hidden]... > > how do you know N4 will have an exaggerated tail happy car model if you > > haven't driven it? > > Where did I say N4 was going to be this way, I stated that a tail happy > physics engine from GPL isn't the solution. > > If your surmising that "Will use the GPL physics engine" > > means that the game will be using GPL car modeling you're wrong. What it > > means is that the game will use the same physics, with different cars, > just > > like in real life all the cars exist in the same physical world, but drive > > very differently. > > > > An enhanced 3rd generation physics model (the one used in GPL) is in no > way > > related to the N3, N2, ICR2... physics modeling, so what your aren't > getting > > Its a toned down GPl engine nothing new or enahnced about it. > > > with N4 is another rehashed NASCAR title. This will guarantee what you > call > > "Better track physics" (what ever track physics are) > > Track physics are having more than one fast groove, having changing grooves > during the race , have the track change due to weather changes during the > race (which brings up a another thing) > > and definitely better > > lap times and more realistic setups. As a matter of fact, I think it was > > papy that said you could drop in a real setup and have the car perform > very > > close to it's real life counterpart. > > This remains to be seen I have talked to people who drove the game ay E3 and > they say you can drive on the aprons through turns just Like N1-N3, this is > very disappointing. > > > > As for AI, from what I've heard GPL is much better than the legacy NASCAR > > stuff, so Papy's newest work should be an advancement over legacy NASCAR. > > Yes GPl has better Ai than papy's Nascar titles but they aren't that great > they will battle your for about 2 laps then they give up after you pass > them. > > > > As for online, I believe Nascar Heat will only allow something like 8 > > players, > > It has been stated in a interview that this could possible set to a higher > number > > which works pretty wall in N3, let alone that times you get 20 > > people going good. I'm sure papy is doing what they can with current > > internet architecture, which isn't great. > > > > FWIW, whether or not a game is bad, piracy is still robbery. If you plan > to > > play the game, then you are morally obligated to buy the game, or not play > > I'm not obilgated to do nothing that I don't feel like I need to do. > > > it. If you decide to be one of the downfallers of society who don't think > of > > community, but only self interest, then I guess you'll just be another > > person forcing the governments to make stupid laws. > > They do that regardless, all I meant from my post is that I will not support > Papyrus once again like I have since 1994 unless the demo shows so great > stuff, if it doesn't they won't get my money again. I have bought every game > they have released since N1 with promises on top of promises of what th > egame will have and what will get once we get the game (NROS for one and > authnic Nascar racing for another) just to be jipped by them for $50 each > time and I won't fall for it again. > > Robert

>If I could find the Acceleration Pack I would buy it You can buy it direct from Sierra, go to there web site where I got mine at.

Robert is it really that hard to understand that using the GPL physics model has nothing to do with the NASCAR cars driving like 1967 F1 cars? The physics engine is the environment in which the cars exist. NASCAR 4 is using the same physical rules, not the same cars. Once again, for those of us that re so very slow... In real life: 1967 F1 and 2000 NASCAR's use the exact same physics, they are just different cars. In Papy game: 167 F1 and 2000 NASCAR use the same physics,l but are different cars. Robert is it really that hard to understand that using the GPL physics model has nothing to do with the NASCAR cars driving like 1967 F1 cars? The physics engine is the environment in which the cars exist. NASCAR 4 is using the same physical rules, not the same cars. Once again, for those of us that re so very slow... In real life: 1967 F1 and 2000 NASCAR's use the exact same physics, they are just different cars. In Papy game: 1967 F1 and 2000 NASCAR use the same physics,l but are different cars. It's the physics engine not the car modeling that is being carried over from GPL. F12k carried over the physics engine from SCGT, that doesn't mean that they drive the same, but is just made a bit harder. Heck the Lotus and Eagle in GPL use the same physics, but drive quite differently. Robert Platts <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tjtb5.341036$[email hidden]... > > how do you know N4 will have an exaggerated tail happy car model if you > > haven't driven it? > > Where did I say N4 was going to be this way, I stated that a tail happy > physics engine from GPL isn't the solution. > > If your surmising that "Will use the GPL physics engine" > > means that the game will be using GPL car modeling you're wrong. What

it > > means is that the game will use the same physics, with different cars, > just > > like in real life all the cars exist in the same physical world, butdrive

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> > very differently. > > > > An enhanced 3rd generation physics model (the one used in GPL) is in no > way > > related to the N3, N2, ICR2... physics modeling, so what your aren't > getting > > > Its a toned down GPl engine nothing new or enahnced about it. > > > > with N4 is another rehashed NASCAR title. This will guarantee what you > call > > "Better track physics" (what ever track physics are) > > Track physics are having more than one fast groove, having changing

grooves

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> during the race , have the track change due to weather changes during the > race (which brings up a another thing) > > > and definitely better > > lap times and more realistic setups. As a matter of fact, I think it was > > papy that said you could drop in a real setup and have the car perform > very > > close to it's real life counterpart. > > This remains to be seen I have talked to people who drove the game ay E3

and > they say you can drive on the aprons through turns just Like N1-N3, thisis > very disappointing. > > > > As for AI, from what I've heard GPL is much better than the legacyNASCAR > > stuff, so Papy's newest work should be an advancement over legacyNASCAR.

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> > > Yes GPl has better Ai than papy's Nascar titles but they aren't that great > they will battle your for about 2 laps then they give up after you pass > them. > > > > As for online, I believe Nascar Heat will only allow something like 8 > > players, > > > It has been stated in a interview that this could possible set to a higher > number > > which works pretty wall in N3, let alone that times you get 20 > > people going good. I'm sure papy is doing what they can with current > > internet architecture, which isn't great. > > > > FWIW, whether or not a game is bad, piracy is still robbery. If you plan > to > > play the game, then you are morally obligated to buy the game, or not

play > > > I'm not obilgated to do nothing that I don't feel like I need to do. > > > > it. If you decide to be one of the downfallers of society who don'tthink > of > > community, but only self interest, then I guess you'll just be another > > person forcing the governments to make stupid laws. > > > They do that regardless, all I meant from my post is that I will notsupport > Papyrus once again like I have since 1994 unless the demo shows so great > stuff, if it doesn't they won't get my money again. I have bought everygame

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> they have released since N1 with promises on top of promises of what th > egame will have and what will get once we get the game (NROS for one and > authnic Nascar racing for another) just to be jipped by them for $50 each > time and I won't fall for it again. > > Robert > > > >