Re: GP3 "SlowMo"

Then there is the phenomenon FastShMo but we've only experiened that in online GPL races :-) Jason. "\"Michael E. Carver\" mcarver"@teleport.com wrote: > Then there is the flip side of SlowMo.... FastMo which happens when the > CPU drops below 100% occupancy. -- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL) http://members.home.net/stuff.mondsj/csp - Car Sim Project (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

I don't know about that Andre... I always use my cable account (Telenet/Pandora) for racing and I get great connects nearly everywhere. Jan. =--- Andre Warringa wrote... > <snip> > Only for online racing I use a dialup connection, cable isn't suited > for online racing. > > Andre

LOL, best one of the day Jo Helsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:53:45 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >"Jo Helsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> But with GP3 this seems no longer the case. It seems to pop up only in > > > >Because the hardware advanced while the game did not. Surely > >you know and understand this. So what are you trying to do here?? > > "Earth to Greg Cisko on Planet Negative." > "Earth to Greg Cisko on Planet Negative." > > "Greg, your flight controller here. Please turn off your 'GP3 is a > fucking bad and lousy game and I'm not going to stop before it's > burried 30 feet under the ground'-attitude" > > JoH

Would that be the same attitude you portray? > Not at all. I sold GPL and don't even know or care what DK > is. It is your overly condesending bull shit attitude that grates. >

Was he being a prick? No. Were you? Yes. Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Uqhf5.4797$9%[email hidden]... > "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> > wrote in messagenews:ooff5.7875$[email hidden]... > > There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when theprocessor > is > > overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate and > you > > get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when reallybad)

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> > not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control of > the > > car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of the > detail > > of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes the > overload) > > when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of

you

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> > experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me? > > No need to be a prick about it. It isn't our fault the game is > porked. The alternative it to do it another way obviously. > I *NEVER* had any jerkovision stuff in GPL. But then I > always had a good framerate @800x600 in that game. > > I am getting jerkovision from reading crap like this though :-) > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > > >

Maybe he was asking a question? Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1Bjf5.4825$9%[email hidden]...

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> "Jo Helsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > But with GP3 this seems no longer the case. It seems to pop up only in > > Because the hardware advanced while the game did not. Surely > you know and understand this. So what are you trying to do here?? > > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > > > > very unusual circumstances and at the start of a race. Since you can > > quickly turn down details at the start only (ctrl + d ?), it seems now > > possible to avoid slowmo altogether without sacrificing a lot. > > > > Still one BIG problem is that without proper verification the hotlap > > leagues can be falsified with slowmo :-( > > > > JoH > > > >

doesn't happen, never did :)

Would that be the same attitude you portray?

Yep... Something wrong with that? --

Hehe. --

>I am getting jerkovision from reading ***like this though :-) >-- jerkovision,................. that's really funny! And I thought it was only my cable company that offered the really weird chanels. Steve

There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when the processor is overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate and you get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when really bad) not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control of the car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of the detail of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes the overload) when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of you experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me? Tony Whitley

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:02:42 +0100 Tony Whitley <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote: % There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when the processor is % overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate and you % get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when really bad) % not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control of the % car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of the detail % of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes the overload) % when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of you % experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me? Then there is the flip side of SlowMo.... FastMo which happens when the CPU drops below 100% occupancy. The downside to this method is that what you perceive as fluidity isn't there at all.... Your reactions to a corner are never the same when the game is slowed or speeded up. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

"Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote in message news:ooff5.7875$[email hidden]... > There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when the processoris > overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate andyou > get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when really bad) > not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control ofthe > car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of thedetail > of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes theoverload) > when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of you > experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me? No need to be a prick about it. It isn't our fault the game is porked. The alternative it to do it another way obviously. I *NEVER* had any jerkovision stuff in GPL. But then I always had a good framerate @800x600 in that game. I am getting jerkovision from reading crap like this though :-) -- [email hidden]

Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Uqhf5.4797$9%[email hidden]... > No need to be a prick about it.Sorry I upset you. Because I dared to criticise GPL/DK? > It isn't our fault the game is > porked. The alternative it to do it another way obviously.Like what? That's what I was asking. > I *NEVER* had any jerkovision stuff in GPL. But then I > always had a good framerate @800x600 in that game.So did I once I upgraded my video card, processor etc., but even then the frame rate drops at times (particularly the start, when fine control is paramount). If your processor is fast enough there isn't a problem with GP2 and presumably not with GP3 either. > I am getting jerkovision from reading crap like this though :-)Have a nice day. Tony Whitley

"Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote in message news:%Hhf5.8039$[email hidden]... > Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Uqhf5.4797$9%[email hidden]... > > No need to be a prick about it. > Sorry I upset you. Because I dared to criticise GPL/DK? Not at all. I sold GPL and don't even know or care what DK is. It is your overly condesending bull shit attitude that grates. > > It isn't our fault the game is > > porked. The alternative it to do it another way obviously. > Like what? That's what I was asking. The papy sims don't seemed plauged like this. SCGT isn't F1 2000 certainly isn't bound by some funky processor occupancy thing. Also the reverse of better lap times with a high processor occupancy is what??? Perhaps slower track times with a very low processor occupancy. Inother words this part of the game is totally porked. Either way you go with the occupancy you are screwed. > > I *NEVER* had any jerkovision stuff in GPL. But then I > > always had a good framerate @800x600 in that game. > So did I once I upgraded my video card, processor etc., but even then the > frame rate drops at times (particularly the start, when fine control is > paramount). If your processor is fast enough there isn't a problem withGP2 > and presumably not with GP3 either. > > > I am getting jerkovision from reading crap like this though :-) > Have a nice day. No problem. You too. -- [email hidden]

"Jo Helsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > But with GP3 this seems no longer the case. It seems to pop up only in Because the hardware advanced while the game did not. Surely you know and understand this. So what are you trying to do here?? -- [email hidden] > very unusual circumstances and at the start of a race. Since you can > quickly turn down details at the start only (ctrl + d ?), it seems now > possible to avoid slowmo altogether without sacrificing a lot. > > Still one BIG problem is that without proper verification the hotlap > leagues can be falsified with slowmo :-( > > JoH >

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:37:56 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:32:32 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >Sorry for the double one, my wonderfull cable provider is having some >problems... > >Andre

Hoi, Write to the TV show 'ook dat nog' They building a file with complaints about what must be the worst ISP in the world....chello.. willem

Tony Whitley <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote in message news:ooff5.7875$[email hidden]... > There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when the processoris > overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate andyou > get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when really bad) > not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control ofthe > car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of thedetail > of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes theoverload) > when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of you > experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me? > > Tony Whitley I see no problem with SLowMo at all. Firstly I never exactly could eck out any advantage by using it so I basically didn't. GP2LAP I think was the util to check laps for such things in GP2, and was used for a few leagues and hotlap competitions. Just like the tracks and jams, they seem editable with a little work (from what I hear), Wouldn't it be possible to come up with a GP3LAP util?

the only time i never get slomo is when i am in practise i find the Ring, and spa present more slomo effects in a race than anywhere else.. seems like whenever u have a very wide view (comin out of la source) is where its at its worst Martyn_D Jo Helsen wrote:

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> On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:02:42 +0100, "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t > l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote: > > >There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when the processor is > >overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate and you > >get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when really bad) > >not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control of the > >car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of the detail > >of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes the overload) > >when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of you > >experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me? > > After the first reports of the performance of GP3, I sort of agree > that the problem should be considered less severe than in GP2. > > Since GP2 was so incredibly demanding on the hardware, it was almost > impossible to totally avoid slowmo on even very fast machines without > sacrificing the bulk of the detail. > > But with GP3 this seems no longer the case. It seems to pop up only in > very unusual circumstances and at the start of a race. Since you can > quickly turn down details at the start only (ctrl + d ?), it seems now > possible to avoid slowmo altogether without sacrificing a lot. > > Still one BIG problem is that without proper verification the hotlap > leagues can be falsified with slowmo :-( > > JoH

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:02:42 +0100, "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote:

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>There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when the processor is >overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate and you >get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when really bad) >not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control of the >car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of the detail >of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes the overload) >when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of you >experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me?

After the first reports of the performance of GP3, I sort of agree that the problem should be considered less severe than in GP2. Since GP2 was so incredibly demanding on the hardware, it was almost impossible to totally avoid slowmo on even very fast machines without sacrificing the bulk of the detail. But with GP3 this seems no longer the case. It seems to pop up only in very unusual circumstances and at the start of a race. Since you can quickly turn down details at the start only (ctrl + d ?), it seems now possible to avoid slowmo altogether without sacrificing a lot. Still one BIG problem is that without proper verification the hotlap leagues can be falsified with slowmo :-( JoH

doesn't happen, never did :)

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:46:17 GMT, "Michael E. Carver" [email hidden] wrote:

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>On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:02:42 +0100 Tony Whitley <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote: >% There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when the processor is >% overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate and you >% get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when really bad) >% not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control of the >% car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of the detail >% of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes the overload) >% when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of you >% experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me? > >Then there is the flip side of SlowMo.... FastMo which happens when the >CPU drops below 100% occupancy. The downside to this method is that >what you perceive as fluidity isn't there at all.... Your reactions to >a corner are never the same when the game is slowed or speeded up.

Sorry Michael, but there NEVER was fastmo in F1GP or GP2. JoH

I can't agree overall, although I see your reasonning. I think a simlulation should always run in real time, outputting frames to the screen only when it has time to. I read somewhere that the physics behind GPL (for the players car only of course) runs at 288 Hz. The Crammond method disadvantages people with fast machines, since the frame rate won't ever go over 25 fps (although there is a 3rd party patch on the way to remedy this). And it also allows hot-lap cheating, which makes something like a version of GPL Rank for GP3 a total non starter. Just my opinion of course. :)

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:02:42 +0100, "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote:

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>There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when the processor is >overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate and you >get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when really bad) >not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control of the >car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of the detail >of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes the overload) >when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of you >experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me?

I think that's the beauty of F1WGP, it drops the detail level of the cars and surroundings when things get too crowded, works absolutely perfect. Andre > >Tony Whitley >

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:02:42 +0100, "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote:

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>There's been a great deal of bitching about the SlowMo when the processor is >overloaded, but what alternative is there? GPL drops the frame rate and you >get JerkoVision and a car that's difficult to drive and (when really bad) >not where you think it is. At least SlowMo leaves you in full control of the >car. I would have thought it's not too difficult to dump some of the detail >of the simulation of the AI cars (I assume that's what causes the overload) >when the going gets tough but neither GC nor DK have done this. Any of you >experts (self-appointed or otherwise) enlighten me?

I think that's the beauty of F1WGP, it drops the detail level of the cars and surroundings when things get too crowded, works absolutely perfect. Andre > >Tony Whitley >

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:32:32 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: Sorry for the double one, my wonderfull cable provider is having some problems... Andre

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:53:45 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote: >"Jo Helsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> But with GP3 this seems no longer the case. It seems to pop up only in > >Because the hardware advanced while the game did not. Surely >you know and understand this. So what are you trying to do here?? "Earth to Greg Cisko on Planet Negative." "Earth to Greg Cisko on Planet Negative." "Greg, your flight controller here. Please turn off your 'GP3 is a fucking bad and lousy game and I'm not going to stop before it's burried 30 feet under the ground'-attitude" JoH

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:15:31 +0100, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I see no problem with SLowMo at all. >Firstly I never exactly could eck out any advantage by using it so I >basically didn't. >GP2LAP I think was the util to check laps for such things in GP2, and was >used for a few leagues and hotlap competitions. > >Just like the tracks and jams, they seem editable with a little work (from >what I hear), Wouldn't it be possible to come up with a GP3LAP util?

Well, actually I have always been in close contact with the developers of GP2LAP (there's even more to it...) The thing is that GP2LAP was more than just a simple patch. It "hooks into" GP2 and monitors all kinds of variables (like PO) in realtime. But Rene Smit (one of the developers) told me that it could be impossible to use the same approach since GP3 is running in Windows and no longer in pure DOS. But it IS very early still. Maybe we are lucky and they can QUICKLY find ways to make a GP3LAP? JoH

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:52:28 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> >wrote in message news:%Hhf5.8039$[email hidden]... >> Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:Uqhf5.4797$9%[email hidden]... >> > No need to be a prick about it. >> Sorry I upset you. Because I dared to criticise GPL/DK? > >Not at all. I sold GPL and don't even know or care what DK >is. It is your overly condesending bull shit attitude that grates.

You... you sold GPL? ... Andre

Jo Helsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:15:31 +0100, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I see no problem with SLowMo at all. > >Firstly I never exactly could eck out any advantage by using it so I > >basically didn't. > >GP2LAP I think was the util to check laps for such things in GP2, and was > >used for a few leagues and hotlap competitions. > > > >Just like the tracks and jams, they seem editable with a little work

(from

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> >what I hear), Wouldn't it be possible to come up with a GP3LAP util? > > Well, actually I have always been in close contact with the developers > of GP2LAP (there's even more to it...) The thing is that GP2LAP was > more than just a simple patch. It "hooks into" GP2 and monitors all > kinds of variables (like PO) in realtime. But Rene Smit (one of the > developers) told me that it could be impossible to use the same > approach since GP3 is running in Windows and no longer in pure DOS. > > But it IS very early still. Maybe we are lucky and they can QUICKLY > find ways to make a GP3LAP? >

hmmm......If only we could take a log of the highest and lowest or even just average PO. Might be harder than it sounds, I don't know, I'm not a very good programmer:-)

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:26:24 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I am getting jerkovision from reading crap like this though :-) > >-- > >[email hidden] > > > > >

jerkovision,................. that's really funny! And I thought it was only my cable company that offered the really weird chanels. Steve

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:34:23 -0500, "Tim Wheatley" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Maybe he was asking a question? > > Somewhere I get this feeling you don't like Cisko's attitude... :) Well the complaint line starts around back :-) -- [email hidden]

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You... you sold GPL? Yep... Something wrong with that? -- [email hidden]

"Jo Helsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Greg, your flight controller here. Please turn off your 'GP3 is a > fucking bad and lousy game and I'm not going to stop before it's > burried 30 feet under the ground'-attitude" Hehe. -- [email hidden] > > JoH

"Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8lkmrc$5ac$[email hidden]... > Maybe he was asking a question? I know he was asking a quesiton. But it was a dumbassed question because the answer is so obvious. -- [email hidden] > Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:1Bjf5.4825$9%[email hidden]... > > "Jo Helsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > But with GP3 this seems no longer the case. It seems to pop up only in > > > > Because the hardware advanced while the game did not. Surely > > you know and understand this. So what are you trying to do here?? > > > > > > -- > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > > > very unusual circumstances and at the start of a race. Since you can > > > quickly turn down details at the start only (ctrl + d ?), it seems now > > > possible to avoid slowmo altogether without sacrificing a lot. > > > > > > Still one BIG problem is that without proper verification the hotlap > > > leagues can be falsified with slowmo :-( > > > > > > JoH > > > > > > > > >

"Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote in message news:VWnf5.8757$[email hidden]... > (Trying to avoid "being a prick about it" and having a "overlycondesending > (sic) bull shit (sic) attitude" for Greg Cisko's sake) So it can be done > (I've never tried F1WGP). Why doesn't GP2/3 or GPL do that? Surely it'sthe > obvious thing to do? Don't know about GPL. But World Circuit, GP2 and now GP3 have had htis cool slowmo stuff. As I have said before I believe crammond does not understand how to make the game any other way. Otherwise this ridiculious "feature" would not be there. -- [email hidden] > Tony Whitley > > Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > I think that's the beauty of F1WGP, it drops the detail level of the > > cars and surroundings when things get too crowded, works absolutely > > perfect. > > >

(Trying to avoid "being a prick about it" and having a "overly condesending (sic) bull shit (sic) attitude" for Greg Cisko's sake) So it can be done (I've never tried F1WGP). Why doesn't GP2/3 or GPL do that? Surely it's the obvious thing to do? Tony Whitley Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I think that's the beauty of F1WGP, it drops the detail level of the > cars and surroundings when things get too crowded, works absolutely > perfect.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:01:38 GMT, wsa <[email hidden]> wrote: >Write to the TV show 'ook dat nog' >They building a file with complaints about what must be the worst ISP >in the world....chello.. Actually I'm very happy with Chello... occasionally they're having some problems, but they are usually fixed within one hour. Download speed is rather slow between 6-12pm, still lots faster than ISDN though, but that's quite logical, the whole city is using the same cable for internet at that time :) After 12pm I usually get download speeds around 150k, that's quite satisfactory for me... Ofcourse, this is in the region where I live, maybe you have other results with Chello... Only for online racing I use a dialup connection, cable isn't suited for online racing. Andre > >willem

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:34:23 -0500, "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Maybe he was asking a question? Somewhere I get this feeling you don't like Cisko's attitude... :) Andre

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> >Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:1Bjf5.4825$9%[email hidden]... >> "Jo Helsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > But with GP3 this seems no longer the case. It seems to pop up only in >> >> Because the hardware advanced while the game did not. Surely >> you know and understand this. So what are you trying to do here?? >> >> >> -- >> >> [email hidden] >> >> >> >> >> > very unusual circumstances and at the start of a race. Since you can >> > quickly turn down details at the start only (ctrl + d ?), it seems now >> > possible to avoid slowmo altogether without sacrificing a lot. >> > >> > Still one BIG problem is that without proper verification the hotlap >> > leagues can be falsified with slowmo :-( >> > >> > JoH >> > >> >> >

Hi, Well, i'm having a hell of a time with them:( Don't know where you're at but i'm close to arnhem...and nothing but trouble..especially last week is very bad.. Had a league race saturday which went down the drain because of it... haven't been able to race since...and it ain't my PC..friend of mine living in arnhem itself has the same probs... willem On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:11:31 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:01:38 GMT, wsa <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Write to the TV show 'ook dat nog' >>They building a file with complaints about what must be the worst ISP >>in the world....chello.. > >Actually I'm very happy with Chello... occasionally they're having >some problems, but they are usually fixed within one hour. >Download speed is rather slow between 6-12pm, still lots faster than >ISDN though, but that's quite logical, the whole city is using the >same cable for internet at that time :) After 12pm I usually get >download speeds around 150k, that's quite satisfactory for me... >Ofcourse, this is in the region where I live, maybe you have other >results with Chello... > >Only for online racing I use a dialup connection, cable isn't suited >for online racing. > >Andre > >> >>willem

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:11:59 GMT Jo Helsen <[email hidden]> wrote: % >CPU drops below 100% occupancy. The downside to this method is that % >what you perceive as fluidity isn't there at all.... Your reactions to % >a corner are never the same when the game is slowed or speeded up. % Sorry Michael, but there NEVER was fastmo in F1GP or GP2. It has been a very long time since this was last discussed in detail, but my memory serves me that there is a fastmo in GP2. While it is not as pronounced as the slowmo, it is there. All you have to do is turn off all the details to get your CPU occupancy down as low as possible. Run a lap, then compare the time with a stop watch of the replay against the time reported by GPx. This means that time is never constant in Crammond's creations, it accordians in and out depending on the CPU occupancy. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

In article <[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Tony Whitley wrote: >> >> (Trying to avoid "being a prick about it" and having a "overly condesending >> (sic) bull shit (sic) attitude" for Greg Cisko's sake) So it can be done >> (I've never tried F1WGP). Why doesn't GP2/3 or GPL do that? Surely it's the >> obvious thing to do? > >That would be a no no for me, I want a steady detail level, I don't want >to be in a traffic jam approaching a corner and finding that the sim has >removed my braking marker to keep the FPS rate up....

Hehe. Besides, scenery blinking in and out can be VERY distracting... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:33:00 +0200, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I don't know about that Andre... I always use my cable account >(Telenet/Pandora) for racing and I get great connects nearly everywhere. I allways had quite a lot of dico's with my cable connection, and many people on RAS adviced me to use a dialup connection. My cable connection (and apparantly a lot of other VROC'ers have this too) sometimes stops for a second or two while downloading something. This doesn't hinder me while downloading, because the download speed itself is great, but during racing a pause of a couple of seconds allways leads to bad warps and disco's. Now I race online with my 56k6 modem, even configured at 28k8 (some people adviced this, for an even more stable connection) and it works absolutely perfect. Epecially the servers in Holland and Sweden (don't ask my why) have very good pings of around 50... Andre

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> >Jan. >=--- >Andre Warringa wrote... >> <snip> >> Only for online racing I use a dialup connection, cable isn't suited >> for online racing. >> >> Andre >

You're probably just on the receiving end of all the packeting and DoS attacks that are targeted towards chello.no idiots on irc. I believe at least 90% of the onjoining, no-minded spammers come from chello.no, hehe. wsa <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hi, > >Well, i'm having a hell of a time with them:( >Don't know where you're at but i'm close to arnhem...andnothing but >trouble..especially last week is very bad.. >Had a league race saturday which went down the drain because ofit... >haven't been able to race since...and it ain't my PC..friend ofmine >living in arnhem itself has the same probs... > >willem > >On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:11:31 GMT, Andre Warringa<[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:01:38 GMT, wsa <[email hidden]>wrote: >> >>>Write to the TV show 'ook dat nog' >>>They building a file with complaints about what must be theworst ISP >>>in the world....chello.. >> >>Actually I'm very happy with Chello... occasionally they'rehaving >>some problems, but they are usually fixed within one hour. >>Download speed is rather slow between 6-12pm, still lotsfaster than >>ISDN though, but that's quite logical, the whole city is usingthe >>same cable for internet at that time :) After 12pm I usuallyget >>download speeds around 150k, that's quite satisfactory forme... >>Ofcourse, this is in the region where I live, maybe you haveother >>results with Chello... >> >>Only for online racing I use a dialup connection, cable isn'tsuited

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>>for online racing. >> >>Andre >> >>> >>>willem > > >

----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

"Michael E. Carver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kCpf5.2339$[email hidden]... > This means that time is never constant in Crammond's creations, it > accordians in and out depending on the CPU occupancy. Exactly right. I was hoping that GP3 would change that. But it seem to be an integral design thing for his sims. -- [email hidden]

"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I've never heard of that Michael, and I was on a few GP2 hotlap > lists back in the 'day'. Is that in a FAQ or something? Don't know if it was in the FAQ, but it was well known here. Dave Masten did allot of research into it at the time I seem to remember. -- [email hidden]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:11:08 +0100, "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote: >(Trying to avoid "being a prick about it" and having a "overly condesending >(sic) bull shit (sic) attitude" for Greg Cisko's sake) So it can be done >(I've never tried F1WGP). Why doesn't GP2/3 or GPL do that? Surely it's the >obvious thing to do? It is... it's the perfect solution for all 3d games. That way it doesn't matter what kind of hardware you have, the game will allways run fluid. Check out F1WGP if you get the chance, imho it has the best graphics for a racing sim yet. And I still love that in-helmet view. You really get dizzy after a lap at Brazil... Still, I much prefer the skipping of fps over the slowmo. With the slowmo kicking in occasionally, especially at the starts, I loose all feeling of speed. Yesterday I tried a race at Hockenheim. The start was very slow (PO hit about 250), and I lost the feeling with my car. I turned into the first corner, and very slowly the rear of my car broke out. I turned to the opposite direction, the way I have learned to catch a spin after 2 years of GPL, but the car didn't even react to my steering. I don't know how the hell you can catch a spin in GP3. Perhaps in can be done, but now I think I know where all this 'canned spin' talk is comming from. In GPL I can catch every spin, I feel what the internia of the car is doing and I know how to react to it, and in GP3 I can't catch a spin even when it happens in slowmo... either I'm doing something completely wrong, or this canned spin story is completely true. BTW, the PO of 250 is way too high ofcourse and I should turn down some details to get a lower PO. But first I still can't get the game reckognizing my V2 card, so I'm playing GP3 on a PII450 with a Viper 500 card, but when I'm driving with not too many cars in front of me the PO is around 100. I don't want to turn so many details down and set the resolution to 640 just for those moments when things really get crowded. Andre

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> >Tony Whitley > >Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> I think that's the beauty of F1WGP, it drops the detail level of the >> cars and surroundings when things get too crowded, works absolutely >> perfect. > > >

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:12:35 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:34:23 -0500, "Tim Wheatley" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Maybe he was asking a question? > >Somewhere I get this feeling you don't like Cisko's attitude... :) > >Andre

Does anybody really? JoH

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:19:58 +0100, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >Jo Helsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:15:31 +0100, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >I see no problem with SLowMo at all. >> >Firstly I never exactly could eck out any advantage by using it so I >> >basically didn't. >> >GP2LAP I think was the util to check laps for such things in GP2, and was >> >used for a few leagues and hotlap competitions. >> > >> >Just like the tracks and jams, they seem editable with a little work >(from >> >what I hear), Wouldn't it be possible to come up with a GP3LAP util? >> >> Well, actually I have always been in close contact with the developers >> of GP2LAP (there's even more to it...) The thing is that GP2LAP was >> more than just a simple patch. It "hooks into" GP2 and monitors all >> kinds of variables (like PO) in realtime. But Rene Smit (one of the >> developers) told me that it could be impossible to use the same >> approach since GP3 is running in Windows and no longer in pure DOS. >> >> But it IS very early still. Maybe we are lucky and they can QUICKLY >> find ways to make a GP3LAP? >> >hmmm......If only we could take a log of the highest and lowest or even just >average PO. >Might be harder than it sounds, I don't know, I'm not a very good >programmer:-)

The problem remains identical. You can only register the PO if you hook into the running game and monitor it in realtime. JoH

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:14:49 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> I've never heard of that Michael, and I was on a few GP2 hotlap >> lists back in the 'day'. Is that in a FAQ or something? > >Don't know if it was in the FAQ, but it was well known here. >Dave Masten did allot of research into it at the time I seem >to remember.

It is WRONG though. This aspect has been researched toroughly, certainly during the development of GP2LAP. PO under 100% means REALTIME action. What caused the confusion is that GP2 seems to use a kind of "time correction" factor for each trackslot. The DISPLAYED time is the REAL time multiplied by a factor. This factor is small enough as to not to notice this without using a stopwatch. Apparently (but noone knows for sure) this approach was taken to correct CC car laptimes if they didn't match reality after designing the track and tuning the CC performance. You can easily test this by placing the same track in different slots and driving almost identical laps on them. There can be significant differences in the DISPLAYED laptime, while the laps feel and look almost exactly the same. That there was never real "fastmo" was apparent even before this. Logically, a 20% PO would have meant a game running 5 times faster than realtime! JoH PS: GP2LAP was a switch to enable "fastmo", though!

Ok... But I'm expecting you to bring the beers :-) --

Greg Cisko wrote:

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> > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:34:23 -0500, "Tim Wheatley" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Maybe he was asking a question? > > > > Somewhere I get this feeling you don't like Cisko's attitude... :) > > Well the complaint line starts around back :-)

Actually, it's now starting at the front again, we've done a complete circle around the block....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Tony Whitley wrote: > > (Trying to avoid "being a prick about it" and having a "overly condesending > (sic) bull shit (sic) attitude" for Greg Cisko's sake) So it can be done > (I've never tried F1WGP). Why doesn't GP2/3 or GPL do that? Surely it's the > obvious thing to do? That would be a no no for me, I want a steady detail level, I don't want to be in a traffic jam approaching a corner and finding that the sim has removed my braking marker to keep the FPS rate up.... But others in here suggested that there should be a FPS lock, that way you could set it at 30 FPS and just lower your GFX to the point where you could keep a steady 30 FPS, or something... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

I've been assuming the problem is processing the other cars, which is why it's mainly a problem at the start when they are all together, at least nowadays with hardware 3D acceleration. What I would do (were I to spend 4 years of my life writing a racing sim) is scale the rate at which the position of the AI cars is calculated when the processor gets busy. It's very nice that the AI takes different lines and makes mistakes and so on, but it's not essential. If it is the drawing of the other cars that is the problem then perhaps it wouldn't be too unsettling if the detail level of the cars dropped. I agree with you about the detail level of the circuit, I find it distracting on the few times I've played Nascar2 the way the stands come and go (is that why GPL doesn't do that?), or the way the world blinks out of existence at a certain distance in the mirror in SCGT. I suppose that the developers try things out and make a choice of lesser evils, thinking particularly of the profile of their customers. For 99% of the people who buy GP3 it is just a game, not the matter of life and death it sometimes seems to be in R.A.S. For them, an occasional slight slowdown is not a problem, and certainly is not going to make them go out and spend ���s or $$$s on a major PC upgrade. Most of them won't have wheels so being able to drive using the keys is essential (ignoring "certain prominent people" who use joysticks). Which is why GP3 will be (is already according to the advance order figures) the commercial success that GPL never could have been. Tony Whitley (Now maybe I can have another go at getting near 8:30 at the 'Ring. Please. Before Friday) Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> That would be a no no for me, I want a steady detail level, I don't want > to be in a traffic jam approaching a corner and finding that the sim has > removed my braking marker to keep the FPS rate up.... > > But others in here suggested that there should be a FPS lock, that way > you could set it at 30 FPS and just lower your GFX to the point where > you could keep a steady 30 FPS, or something...

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Actually, it's now starting at the front again, we've done a complete > circle around the block....:-) Ok... But I'm expecting you to bring the beers :-) -- [email hidden]