GTP isn't worth the hassle

So now you need a fresh install of NR2003 and a working cd that you must have in the drive to play this thing, a lot of people including me don't have a working cd anymore and must use a crack. Be aware also if you make another install on your hd and them at some point decide to remove it, it will wipe out your original install as well. It's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR.

On 23 Mar 2005 22:05:02 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: >So now you need a fresh install of NR2003 and a working cd that you >must have in the drive to play this thing, a lot of people including me >don't have a working cd anymore and must use a crack. Looks great, downloading now.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> So now you need a fresh install of NR2003 and a working cd that you > must have in the drive to play this thing, a lot of people including me > don't have a working cd anymore and must use a crack. > > Be aware also if you make another install on your hd and them at some > point decide to remove it, it will wipe out your original install as > well. > > It's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR. >

You're a glutton for punishment then! :)

> So now you need a fresh install of NR2003 and a working cd that you > must have in the drive to play this thing, a lot of people includingme > don't have a working cd anymore and must use a crack. >I've never had a properly cared for (ie not dropped etc..) CD fail. > Be aware also if you make another install on your hd and them at some > point decide to remove it, it will wipe out your original install as > well. Takes about 15-20 minutes to install 2 copies of NR code (to support the other mods as well). > > It's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR. >Can't speak for GTR but it's about 1 tenth the hassle of installing GPL ;)

On 23 Mar 2005 22:05:02 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: I t's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR I disagree. it is well worth the hassle. I am hooked on it. Especially the nurburgring and road america. Haven't really got into the other tracks. It does take some tinkering but what pc game doesn't these days. Just my opinion. Nick

Flightless is the kind of person that would say "no black" if you said "white." He's also the kind of guys who is too lazy to spend 15 minutes installing NR2003 so he can have a proper working version of the coolest SIM to come down the pike. He is also the kind of person who is scummy enough to biatch about GTP and not buy a licensed version NR2003. I think we should start calling him "worthlessvacuum" or "pennylessvacuum". Flightless is the most negitive poster in SIM racing. How's about positivelessvacuum? Or pointlessvacuum? > Be aware also if you make another install on your hd and them at some > point decide to remove it, it will wipe out your original install as > well brainlessvacuum? > It's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR. bye! [email hidden] wrote:

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> So now you need a fresh install of NR2003 and a working cd that you > must have in the drive to play this thing, a lot of people including me > don't have a working cd anymore and must use a crack. > > Be aware also if you make another install on your hd and them at some > point decide to remove it, it will wipe out your original install as > well. > > It's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR. >

<[email hidden]> wrote:

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> So now you need a fresh install of NR2003 and a working cd that you > must have in the drive to play this thing, a lot of people including me > don't have a working cd anymore and must use a crack. > > Be aware also if you make another install on your hd and them at some > point decide to remove it, it will wipe out your original install as > well. > > It's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR.

Thanks for the in depth review. I didn't realise the installation routine was the only criteria when evaluating racing sims, so you have saved a lot of people the bother. Anyone remember the efforts with EMM386 to get F1GP running? Getting free mods to run seems a breeze in comparison...

You got that right Tony :) I think Falcon 3 was the worst. IIRC something around 612k was needed. That was the original Falcon dance ;) Mitch "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KcE0e.4742$[email hidden]...

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> <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> So now you need a fresh install of NR2003 and a working cd that you >> must have in the drive to play this thing, a lot of people including me >> don't have a working cd anymore and must use a crack. >> >> Be aware also if you make another install on your hd and them at some >> point decide to remove it, it will wipe out your original install as >> well. >> >> It's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR. > > Thanks for the in depth review. I didn't realise the installation routine > was the only criteria when evaluating racing sims, so you have saved a lot > of people the bother. > > Anyone remember the efforts with EMM386 to get F1GP running? Getting free > mods to run seems a breeze in comparison... > >

"Mitch_A" wrote: > I think Falcon 3 was the worst. IIRC something around 612k was needed. > That was the original Falcon dance ;) > > Mitch Ah yes! How would vacuumbrain have coped with a boot disk per game...

Mitch_A wrote: > > You got that right Tony :) > > I think Falcon 3 was the worst. IIRC something around 612k was needed. > That was the original Falcon dance ;) Aces over Europe was the one I had the most trouble with, that and Rail Road Tycoon DL High memory area, Upper Memory Blocks, boot menus from hell :D Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

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>> I think Falcon 3 was the worst. IIRC something around 612k was needed. >> That was the original Falcon dance ;) > > Aces over Europe was the one I had the most trouble with, that and Rail > Road Tycoon DL > > High memory area, Upper Memory Blocks, boot menus from hell :D

Hehe...I loved it. I reckon I had the most kick-ass dos 6.22 boot menu ever devised. :)

Argh, yeah, F3 was a pita. Don't miss editing config.sys and autoexec.bat at all. "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:z4F0e.15135$[email hidden]...

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> You got that right Tony :) > > I think Falcon 3 was the worst. IIRC something around 612k was needed. > That was the original Falcon dance ;) > > Mitch > > > "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:KcE0e.4742$[email hidden]... > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >> So now you need a fresh install of NR2003 and a working cd that you > >> must have in the drive to play this thing, a lot of people including me > >> don't have a working cd anymore and must use a crack. > >> > >> Be aware also if you make another install on your hd and them at some > >> point decide to remove it, it will wipe out your original install as > >> well. > >> > >> It's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR. > > > > Thanks for the in depth review. I didn't realise the installation

routine > > was the only criteria when evaluating racing sims, so you have saved alot > > of people the bother. > > > > Anyone remember the efforts with EMM386 to get F1GP running? Gettingfree > > mods to run seems a breeze in comparison... > > > > > >

[email hidden] wrote in news:1111644302.201487.232310 @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: > So now you need a fresh install of NR2003 and a working cd that you > must have in the drive to play this thing, a lot of people including me > don't have a working cd anymore and must use a crack. Don't have a working CD, most of the time this means a downloaded hack.... > Be aware also if you make another install on your hd and them at some > point decide to remove it, it will wipe out your original install as > well. Installed it originally over my 2k3 install..... worked fine. I then uninstalled it..... original 2k3 was....... hmmmmm.... still ok. Then installed it again over a new 2k3 install.... still good. > It's not worth the hassle people, I'm going with GTR. > Don't you have to spend money to get GTR? I'm racing GTP for free!

"Vintook" wrote... > <snip> Never mind all that, he's just trolling. However, put this particular sceptic's mind at ease if you will... Has the tyre NR2k3 tyre model been replaced by one representing low profile slick tyres? -I.o.w. are the break-aways sudden an viscious enough? Have the stock car setup limitations with regard to spring rate and ride height been removed, or just disguised? If so, it may be worth my hassle of actually downloading and installing it. Jan. =--

No, Jan, it isn't perfect. No matter how fearsome the wolf's clothing looks, you can still occasionally see sheep's feet sticking out from under it. At the end of the day, tho, it's far and away the best mod ever done for N2003...or anything else except GTR. Compared to GTR, GTP feels slightly cartoon-ish, over-simplified and un-subtle, but the cars drive great, there's a huge selection of appropriate tracks (altho not all tracks suitable for stock cars and trux are suitable for 200+ mph GT Prototypes), and the online play...and league features...are matchless. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sdJ0e.45208$[email hidden]...

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> "Vintook" wrote... > > <snip> > > Never mind all that, he's just trolling. > > However, put this particular sceptic's mind at ease if you will... > > Has the tyre NR2k3 tyre model been replaced by one representing low

profile > slick tyres? -I.o.w. are the break-aways sudden an viscious enough? > > Have the stock car setup limitations with regard to spring rate and ride > height been removed, or just disguised? > > If so, it may be worth my hassle of actually downloading and installingit. > > Jan. > =-- > >

"Steve Smith" wrote... > No, Jan, it isn't perfect. No matter how fearsome the > wolf's clothing looks, you can still occasionally see > sheep's feet sticking out from under it. None of them are, Steve, it just a matter of how good the approximation is. > At the end of the day, tho, it's far and away the best mod ever done > for N2003...or anything else except GTR. Among the non stock car related mods you mean, I'm sure. > Compared to GTR, GTP feels slightly cartoon-ish, over- > simplified and un-subtle, but the cars drive great, > there's a huge selection of appropriate tracks (altho > not all tracks suitable for stock cars and trux are > suitable for 200+ mph GT Prototypes), Obviously, but is there any point? -the way you're talking it will still have the two basic problems which put me off the TA mod for life: 1) I will feel the chassis move over the tyres before the car will even begin to turn in to the corners. 2) it will still be *way* quicker to simply kill the rear and deal with the resulting mess by balancing throttle against brake hotlapper/Schumacher style than to set up the car properly given the laughable rideheights/springrates available. --> No thanks, I'll stick to GPL. > and the online play...and league features...are matchless. Which are also present in the series the game manages to represent more or less adequately: stock cars. Jan. =---

"Steve Smith" wrote... > <snip> Have to add I do appreciate you talking straight about these aspects, seeing as direct questions to the modding team on same have, to date, remained unanswered. Jan. =---

Yer points are well phrased...and well taken. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sB21e.45963$[email hidden]... > "Steve Smith" wrote... > > No, Jan, it isn't perfect. No matter how fearsome the > > wolf's clothing looks, you can still occasionally see > > sheep's feet sticking out from under it. > > None of them are, Steve, it just a matter of how good the approximationis.

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> > > At the end of the day, tho, it's far and away the best mod ever done > > for N2003...or anything else except GTR. > > Among the non stock car related mods you mean, I'm sure. > > > Compared to GTR, GTP feels slightly cartoon-ish, over- > > simplified and un-subtle, but the cars drive great, > > there's a huge selection of appropriate tracks (altho > > not all tracks suitable for stock cars and trux are > > suitable for 200+ mph GT Prototypes), > > Obviously, but is there any point? -the way you're talking it will still > have the two basic problems which put me off the TA mod for life: > > 1) I will feel the chassis move over the tyres before the car will even > begin to turn in to the corners. > > 2) it will still be *way* quicker to simply kill the rear and deal with

the

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> resulting mess by balancing throttle against brake hotlapper/Schumacher > style than to set up the car properly given the laughable > rideheights/springrates available. > > --> No thanks, I'll stick to GPL. > > > and the online play...and league features...are matchless. > > Which are also present in the series the game manages to represent more or > less adequately: stock cars. > > Jan. > =--- > >

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sB21e.45963$[email hidden]... > "Steve Smith" wrote... > > No, Jan, it isn't perfect. No matter how fearsome the > > wolf's clothing looks, you can still occasionally see > > sheep's feet sticking out from under it. > > None of them are, Steve, it just a matter of how good the approximationis.

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> > > At the end of the day, tho, it's far and away the best mod ever done > > for N2003...or anything else except GTR. > > Among the non stock car related mods you mean, I'm sure. > > > Compared to GTR, GTP feels slightly cartoon-ish, over- > > simplified and un-subtle, but the cars drive great, > > there's a huge selection of appropriate tracks (altho > > not all tracks suitable for stock cars and trux are > > suitable for 200+ mph GT Prototypes), > > Obviously, but is there any point? -the way you're talking it will still > have the two basic problems which put me off the TA mod for life: > > 1) I will feel the chassis move over the tyres before the car will even > begin to turn in to the corners. > > 2) it will still be *way* quicker to simply kill the rear and deal with

the

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> resulting mess by balancing throttle against brake hotlapper/Schumacher > style than to set up the car properly given the laughable > rideheights/springrates available. > > --> No thanks, I'll stick to GPL. > > > and the online play...and league features...are matchless. > > Which are also present in the series the game manages to represent more or > less adequately: stock cars. > > Jan. > =---

The GTP cars feel a lot, lot different than the Cup or TA cars. -- David G Fisher

I have tried hard for figure this mod out. Every step was taken not only by me, but my business tech director as well. When we attempt the startup, IT REBOOTS my ENTIRE system... Can anyone formulate a step by step to make it easy to understand...Maybe someone like redline??? Why go through the trouble to put something this exciting together, and then do such a poor job of helping us enjoy it? -- Message posted via http://www.gameskb.com

Have you made a player and run the graphics config first? "marc fredo via GamesKB.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>I have tried hard for figure this mod out. Every step was taken not only > by me, but my business tech director as well. When we attempt the > startup, > IT REBOOTS my ENTIRE system... Can anyone formulate a step by step to make > it easy to understand...Maybe someone like redline??? Why go through the > trouble to put something this exciting together, and then do such a poor > job of helping us enjoy it? > > -- > Message posted via http://www.gameskb.com

Yes, David, but Jan is right - if you're sensitive enuf, you can "feel" the stockcar underpinnings even thru the extensive modifications made to N2003's physics engine for GTP. Two big issues obtain here.... 1. As Jan sez, despite the fact that both stockcars and late-80s Prototypes were using radials, the latter had extremely low sidewalls (lower even than today's F1s), so the steering response was almost instantaneous. Stockcars, then and now, are laterally much "softer" than low-profile tires - there's a perceptable lag (occasioned by the "hysteresis" in the rubber) between the time the wheel rim turns and the time the tire tread follows. Even so, Dave Kaemmer said he had to stop driving GPL after Papy had moved on to the next gen NASCAR Racing because GPL's tire model was so bad. 2. The rest of N2003's physics model is built around a front-engined chassis designed to turn left on four equally-sized tires and a "live" (beam) rear axle. IOW, worlds away from the chassis of a rear-engined car with 4-wheel indy suspension for roadies, wings & tunnels, and huge differences between the F & R tire sizes. Plus, of course, anomalies like N2003's RF tire bug. And omissions like fast & slow shock values, brake press. settings, packers/buffers, diff ramp angles, alt. tire treads and compounds, etc. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:sB21e.45963$[email hidden]... > > "Steve Smith" wrote... > > > No, Jan, it isn't perfect. No matter how fearsome the > > > wolf's clothing looks, you can still occasionally see > > > sheep's feet sticking out from under it. > > > > None of them are, Steve, it just a matter of how good the approximation > is. > > > > > At the end of the day, tho, it's far and away the best mod ever done > > > for N2003...or anything else except GTR. > > > > Among the non stock car related mods you mean, I'm sure. > > > > > Compared to GTR, GTP feels slightly cartoon-ish, over- > > > simplified and un-subtle, but the cars drive great, > > > there's a huge selection of appropriate tracks (altho > > > not all tracks suitable for stock cars and trux are > > > suitable for 200+ mph GT Prototypes), > > > > Obviously, but is there any point? -the way you're talking it will still > > have the two basic problems which put me off the TA mod for life: > > > > 1) I will feel the chassis move over the tyres before the car will even > > begin to turn in to the corners. > > > > 2) it will still be *way* quicker to simply kill the rear and deal with > the > > resulting mess by balancing throttle against brake hotlapper/Schumacher > > style than to set up the car properly given the laughable > > rideheights/springrates available. > > > > --> No thanks, I'll stick to GPL. > > > > > and the online play...and league features...are matchless. > > > > Which are also present in the series the game manages to represent more

or

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> > less adequately: stock cars. > > > > Jan. > > =--- > > The GTP cars feel a lot, lot different than the Cup or TA cars. > > > -- > David G Fisher > >

Bear in mind this is the same DGF that thinks GTR is a terrible sim. Go figure... "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Otc1e.113173$[email hidden]...

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> Yes, David, but Jan is right - if you're sensitive enuf, you can "feel" > the > stockcar underpinnings even thru the extensive modifications made to > N2003's > physics engine for GTP. > > Two big issues obtain here.... > > 1. As Jan sez, despite the fact that both stockcars and late-80s > Prototypes > were using radials, the latter had extremely low sidewalls (lower even > than > today's F1s), so the steering response was almost instantaneous. > Stockcars, > then and now, are laterally much "softer" than low-profile tires - there's > a > perceptable lag (occasioned by the "hysteresis" in the rubber) between the > time the wheel rim turns and the time the tire tread follows. Even so, > Dave > Kaemmer said he had to stop driving GPL after Papy had moved on to the > next > gen NASCAR Racing because GPL's tire model was so bad. > > 2. The rest of N2003's physics model is built around a front-engined > chassis > designed to turn left on four equally-sized tires and a "live" (beam) rear > axle. IOW, worlds away from the chassis of a rear-engined car with > 4-wheel > indy suspension for roadies, wings & tunnels, and huge differences between > the F & R tire sizes. > > Plus, of course, anomalies like N2003's RF tire bug. And omissions like > fast & slow shock values, brake press. settings, packers/buffers, diff > ramp > angles, alt. tire treads and compounds, etc. > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> >> "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:sB21e.45963$[email hidden]... >> > "Steve Smith" wrote... >> > > No, Jan, it isn't perfect. No matter how fearsome the >> > > wolf's clothing looks, you can still occasionally see >> > > sheep's feet sticking out from under it. >> > >> > None of them are, Steve, it just a matter of how good the approximation >> is. >> > >> > > At the end of the day, tho, it's far and away the best mod ever done >> > > for N2003...or anything else except GTR. >> > >> > Among the non stock car related mods you mean, I'm sure. >> > >> > > Compared to GTR, GTP feels slightly cartoon-ish, over- >> > > simplified and un-subtle, but the cars drive great, >> > > there's a huge selection of appropriate tracks (altho >> > > not all tracks suitable for stock cars and trux are >> > > suitable for 200+ mph GT Prototypes), >> > >> > Obviously, but is there any point? -the way you're talking it will >> > still >> > have the two basic problems which put me off the TA mod for life: >> > >> > 1) I will feel the chassis move over the tyres before the car will even >> > begin to turn in to the corners. >> > >> > 2) it will still be *way* quicker to simply kill the rear and deal with >> the >> > resulting mess by balancing throttle against brake hotlapper/Schumacher >> > style than to set up the car properly given the laughable >> > rideheights/springrates available. >> > >> > --> No thanks, I'll stick to GPL. >> > >> > > and the online play...and league features...are matchless. >> > >> > Which are also present in the series the game manages to represent more > or >> > less adequately: stock cars. >> > >> > Jan. >> > =--- >> >> The GTP cars feel a lot, lot different than the Cup or TA cars. >> >> >> -- >> David G Fisher >> >> > >

Ahhh... the old days of QEMM and editing .ini's. It seems so long ago! *Sigh* Oh wait... lol I used to have to go to all the friends and relatives houses to free up memory for them so they could run their new games. Glad that's over! ... or is it? lol <%) "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:d1vf0b$gld$[email hidden]...

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> >>> I think Falcon 3 was the worst. IIRC something around 612k was needed. >>> That was the original Falcon dance ;) >> >> Aces over Europe was the one I had the most trouble with, that and Rail >> Road Tycoon DL >> >> High memory area, Upper Memory Blocks, boot menus from hell :D > > Hehe...I loved it. I reckon I had the most kick-ass dos 6.22 boot menu > ever > devised. :) > >

Well, I've had my doubts abt. DGF in the past, but he seems to be coming around lately. The meds must be working. "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tjh1e.2909$[email hidden]...

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> Bear in mind this is the same DGF that thinks GTR is a terrible sim. Go > figure... > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Otc1e.113173$[email hidden]... > > Yes, David, but Jan is right - if you're sensitive enuf, you can "feel" > > the > > stockcar underpinnings even thru the extensive modifications made to > > N2003's > > physics engine for GTP. > > > > Two big issues obtain here.... > > > > 1. As Jan sez, despite the fact that both stockcars and late-80s > > Prototypes > > were using radials, the latter had extremely low sidewalls (lower even > > than > > today's F1s), so the steering response was almost instantaneous. > > Stockcars, > > then and now, are laterally much "softer" than low-profile tires -

there's > > a > > perceptable lag (occasioned by the "hysteresis" in the rubber) betweenthe

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> > time the wheel rim turns and the time the tire tread follows. Even so, > > Dave > > Kaemmer said he had to stop driving GPL after Papy had moved on to the > > next > > gen NASCAR Racing because GPL's tire model was so bad. > > > > 2. The rest of N2003's physics model is built around a front-engined > > chassis > > designed to turn left on four equally-sized tires and a "live" (beam)

rear > > axle. IOW, worlds away from the chassis of a rear-engined car with > > 4-wheel > > indy suspension for roadies, wings & tunnels, and huge differencesbetween

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> > the F & R tire sizes. > > > > Plus, of course, anomalies like N2003's RF tire bug. And omissions like > > fast & slow shock values, brake press. settings, packers/buffers, diff > > ramp > > angles, alt. tire treads and compounds, etc. > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > >> > >> "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:sB21e.45963$[email hidden]... > >> > "Steve Smith" wrote... > >> > > No, Jan, it isn't perfect. No matter how fearsome the > >> > > wolf's clothing looks, you can still occasionally see > >> > > sheep's feet sticking out from under it. > >> > > >> > None of them are, Steve, it just a matter of how good the

approximation > >> is. > >> > > >> > > At the end of the day, tho, it's far and away the best mod everdone

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> >> > > for N2003...or anything else except GTR. > >> > > >> > Among the non stock car related mods you mean, I'm sure. > >> > > >> > > Compared to GTR, GTP feels slightly cartoon-ish, over- > >> > > simplified and un-subtle, but the cars drive great, > >> > > there's a huge selection of appropriate tracks (altho > >> > > not all tracks suitable for stock cars and trux are > >> > > suitable for 200+ mph GT Prototypes), > >> > > >> > Obviously, but is there any point? -the way you're talking it will > >> > still > >> > have the two basic problems which put me off the TA mod for life: > >> > > >> > 1) I will feel the chassis move over the tyres before the car will

even > >> > begin to turn in to the corners. > >> > > >> > 2) it will still be *way* quicker to simply kill the rear and dealwith > >> the > >> > resulting mess by balancing throttle against brakehotlapper/Schumacher

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> >> > style than to set up the car properly given the laughable > >> > rideheights/springrates available. > >> > > >> > --> No thanks, I'll stick to GPL. > >> > > >> > > and the online play...and league features...are matchless. > >> > > >> > Which are also present in the series the game manages to represent

more

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> > or > >> > less adequately: stock cars. > >> > > >> > Jan. > >> > =--- > >> > >> The GTP cars feel a lot, lot different than the Cup or TA cars. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> David G Fisher > >> > >> > > > > > >

I never said that GTR is a terrible sim. Silly. Because of RASCAR, I won't say what I'd love to. As for GTP, Jan hadn't even tried it yet when he made the post you replied to, but was already drawing conclusions. It feels nothing like the Cup or TA cars. -- David G Fisher "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Z1z1e.120110$[email hidden]... > Well, I've had my doubts abt. DGF in the past, but he seems to be coming > around lately. The meds must be working. > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tjh1e.2909$[email hidden]... > > Bear in mind this is the same DGF that thinks GTR is a terrible sim. Go > > figure... > > > > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Otc1e.113173$[email hidden]... > > > Yes, David, but Jan is right - if you're sensitive enuf, you can "feel" > > > the > > > stockcar underpinnings even thru the extensive modifications made to > > > N2003's > > > physics engine for GTP. > > > > > > Two big issues obtain here.... > > > > > > 1. As Jan sez, despite the fact that both stockcars and late-80s > > > Prototypes > > > were using radials, the latter had extremely low sidewalls (lower even > > > than > > > today's F1s), so the steering response was almost instantaneous. > > > Stockcars, > > > then and now, are laterally much "softer" than low-profile tires - > there's > > > a > > > perceptable lag (occasioned by the "hysteresis" in the rubber) between > the > > > time the wheel rim turns and the time the tire tread follows. Even so, > > > Dave > > > Kaemmer said he had to stop driving GPL after Papy had moved on to the > > > next > > > gen NASCAR Racing because GPL's tire model was so bad. > > > > > > 2. The rest of N2003's physics model is built around a front-engined > > > chassis > > > designed to turn left on four equally-sized tires and a "live" (beam) > rear > > > axle. IOW, worlds away from the chassis of a rear-engined car with > > > 4-wheel > > > indy suspension for roadies, wings & tunnels, and huge differences > between > > > the F & R tire sizes. > > > > > > Plus, of course, anomalies like N2003's RF tire bug. And omissions like > > > fast & slow shock values, brake press. settings, packers/buffers, diff > > > ramp > > > angles, alt. tire treads and compounds, etc. > > > > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > >> > > >> "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >> news:sB21e.45963$[email hidden]... > > >> > "Steve Smith" wrote... > > >> > > No, Jan, it isn't perfect. No matter how fearsome the > > >> > > wolf's clothing looks, you can still occasionally see > > >> > > sheep's feet sticking out from under it. > > >> > > > >> > None of them are, Steve, it just a matter of how good the > approximation > > >> is. > > >> > > > >> > > At the end of the day, tho, it's far and away the best mod ever > done > > >> > > for N2003...or anything else except GTR. > > >> > > > >> > Among the non stock car related mods you mean, I'm sure. > > >> > > > >> > > Compared to GTR, GTP feels slightly cartoon-ish, over- > > >> > > simplified and un-subtle, but the cars drive great, > > >> > > there's a huge selection of appropriate tracks (altho > > >> > > not all tracks suitable for stock cars and trux are > > >> > > suitable for 200+ mph GT Prototypes), > > >> > > > >> > Obviously, but is there any point? -the way you're talking it will > > >> > still > > >> > have the two basic problems which put me off the TA mod for life: > > >> > > > >> > 1) I will feel the chassis move over the tyres before the car will > even > > >> > begin to turn in to the corners. > > >> > > > >> > 2) it will still be *way* quicker to simply kill the rear and deal > with > > >> the > > >> > resulting mess by balancing throttle against brake > hotlapper/Schumacher > > >> > style than to set up the car properly given the laughable > > >> > rideheights/springrates available. > > >> > > > >> > --> No thanks, I'll stick to GPL. > > >> > > > >> > > and the online play...and league features...are matchless. > > >> > > > >> > Which are also present in the series the game manages to represent > more > > > or > > >> > less adequately: stock cars. > > >> > > > >> > Jan. > > >> > =--- > > >> > > >> The GTP cars feel a lot, lot different than the Cup or TA cars. > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> David G Fisher > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 16:25:49 -0500, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I never said that GTR is a terrible sim. Silly. Because of RASCAR, I won't >say what I'd love to. > >As for GTP, Jan hadn't even tried it yet when he made the post you replied >to, but was already drawing conclusions. It feels nothing like the Cup or TA >cars. I may be wrong, and you guys seem to understand these things better than I, but the steering response seems pretty quick. The only time I notice the stock car underpinnings is with the weight shifts-center of gravity is certainly lower than in a Cup car, but I often still find that there is a "lag" when trying to get the weight to the side you need it at. John

Are we talking abt. quick for a sim or quick for a virtual stockcar? My experience w. stockcars on roadies in almost nil, as is my experience w. Prototypes, but there is a difference, and in GTP, you can feel it more in the front end than the rear (in N2003 it's the opposite). I've driven N2003 on every type of road circuit and the chassis response seems pretty accurate. I've also been involved w. some guys that ran GTPs on an oval (sub-40 sec./+235 mph laps @ MIS) and they didn't feel...or should I say "respond"?...much like what I'd expect from a real-world GTP, i.e., outside the envelope. "John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 16:25:49 -0500, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >I never said that GTR is a terrible sim. Silly. Because of RASCAR, Iwon't > >say what I'd love to. > > > >As for GTP, Jan hadn't even tried it yet when he made the post youreplied > >to, but was already drawing conclusions. It feels nothing like the Cup orTA

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> >cars. > > I may be wrong, and you guys seem to understand these things better > than I, but the steering response seems pretty quick. The only time > I notice the stock car underpinnings is with the weight shifts-center > of gravity is certainly lower than in a Cup car, but I often still > find that > there is a "lag" when trying to get the weight to the side you need > it at. > > John >

"John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 16:25:49 -0500, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >I never said that GTR is a terrible sim. Silly. Because of RASCAR, Iwon't > >say what I'd love to. > > > >As for GTP, Jan hadn't even tried it yet when he made the post youreplied > >to, but was already drawing conclusions. It feels nothing like the Cup orTA

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> >cars. > > I may be wrong, and you guys seem to understand these things better > than I, but the steering response seems pretty quick. The only time > I notice the stock car underpinnings is with the weight shifts-center > of gravity is certainly lower than in a Cup car, but I often still > find that > there is a "lag" when trying to get the weight to the side you need > it at. > > John

Could be down to setup. I love fast, quick, stiff suspensioned, precise handling cars (modern F1 basically). I usually don't like sloppy, soft suspensioned, loose handling, imprecise cars so I'd probably be first in line to criticize this mod if it had any of those traits. :-) I can't think of another sports car sim/mod that we've ever had that's had such quick, fast, and precise handling cars, so I guess I just don't see the point in Jan or Steve's concerns about the mod's base. -- David G Fisher

You are correct. I don't have to pick my teeth up from off the floor after finishing a Cup race :) -Larry "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > The GTP cars feel a lot, lot different than the Cup or TA cars. > > > -- > David G Fisher > >