More funny business at Hasbro's NH Board...Dan Hasbro

I was participating in the thread started by Ed Martin explaining that the second patch for NH is now confirmed, but won't be ready until December or January. Of course, the general reaction has been sour to the delay, but at least there is a last attempt to fix the glaring problems with AI under cautions, AI during pitting, AI lack of DNF's and the damage model. "Dan Hasbro" has been quite snippy lately, ignoring what I said and lumping into the category of whiners who are still asking for a save game feature when Hasbro has explained quite clearly that there will not be on and why there not be one. Just as I was posting my final reply Dan, the whole thread was deleted (sounds familiar, I am sure, to many of us who have been over there). Anyway, here is my last message to Dan in case he reads it here and for the benefit of anyone else here who cares about HN and may be able to answer it too: (By the way, Dan's last message to me started with, "Marc, which part of this do you not understand", but it was clear he did not have a clue what I was talking about, assuming I was whining about multiplayer yellows and save games...) ---------------------------------------- Dan, Which part of this do you not understand?: I have never mentioned the multiplayer yellows or save game issues, because HI has been clear about their not happening and why. For the record, I understand and sympathise with your position. My comments have been totally unrelated to those issues and I have gone so far as to say "I am not one of those whiners who can't read or accept no for an answer about multiplayer yellows, blah, blah, blah". Let me be crystal clear to save you the bother of trying to find which messages our replies relate to...a difficult task given the format of this forum: 1) When did HI figure out that the non-BTH section of NH, or the "traditional" portion of the game as I call it, was all but unplayable in a human-controlled, full race or season mode (because of the problems with the "big 3" issues that are being worked on currently)? It sure seems like the BTH section was fairly well polished and the rest of the title was given short shrift. 1a) If the answer to 1) is after 1.1e was released, then we know your beta testing and design procedures were severely flawed, since everyone out here in end-user land could figure it out within 5 minutes of firing up the game. If the answer to 1) is: you knew all along, but chose to fix other things first, then a) you should tell people that (sooner) so they don't think you are incompetent and unable to see the problems, and, b) it confirms that NH was released months and months and months before being a consumer-ready finished product. It could also mean, c) a fraction of the necessary resources are being dedicated to finishing the second patch (finishing the PC version of NH), because you are in the process of getting the console version out the door. It could also mean d) I haven't a clue--why don't you illuminate me since you are the insider who knows what's going on and I am just an annoying forum poster. I won't even bother with 2)...just answer the above directly, or, as I said the last time, point me to where you or Ed have already answered this and I'll go and read it. I am only asking because I am not aware that it has been answered yet by either of you. And lastly, let's not forget that this whole topic only came up again because Ed just recently confirmed that the "big 3" issues are being worked on and that a second patch will be released (albeit later than we would all like). Until a couple of days ago, HI hadn't even confirmed that much despite repeated (and annoying) requests for clarification! Dan, I think you are working so hard on all of this and perhaps there are other work pressures or something that we don't know about at play here. You are replying more and more frequently as though you are frustrated and tired--such that you aren't even carefully reading what people are saying. Lumping everyone into the I want multiplayer yellows whiner category is not warranted nor appreciated. I only want what I paid for: a NASCAR racing game with great physics and graphics. NASCAR racing, unfortunately for the programmers, often turns on pitting, cautions, etc. that are difficult to program. It's not just, thank god, driving around in circles. The physics and graphics are there...the ability to participate in a fair race (forget about season) against the computer controlled cars is not. Marc. -- **************************************************************************** Marc Collins [email hidden] Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? ****************************************************************************

As soon as Nascar 4 is released NH will be a fading memory and this will all be moot.

Why are you even wasting your time with Hasbro, Heat and Ed. Find something else to do until N4 comes out. -- Kevin Anderson [email hidden] "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oWlN5.20181$[email hidden]... > I was participating in the thread started by Ed Martin explaining that the > second patch for NH is now confirmed, but won't be ready until December or > January. > > Of course, the general reaction has been sour to the delay, but at least > there is a last attempt to fix the glaring problems with AI under cautions, > AI during pitting, AI lack of DNF's and the damage model. > > "Dan Hasbro" has been quite snippy lately, ignoring what I said and lumping > into the category of whiners who are still asking for a save game feature > when Hasbro has explained quite clearly that there will not be on and why > there not be one. Just as I was posting my final reply Dan, the whole > thread was deleted (sounds familiar, I am sure, to many of us who have been > over there). > > Anyway, here is my last message to Dan in case he reads it here and for the > benefit of anyone else here who cares about HN and may be able to answer it > too: > > (By the way, Dan's last message to me started with, "Marc, which part of > this do you not understand", but it was clear he did not have a clue what I > was talking about, assuming I was whining about multiplayer yellows and save > games...) > > ---------------------------------------- > > Dan, > > Which part of this do you not understand?: I have never mentioned the > multiplayer yellows or save game issues, because HI has been clear about > their not happening and why. For the record, I understand and sympathise > with your position. > > My comments have been totally unrelated to those issues and I have gone so > far as to say "I am not one of those whiners who can't read or accept no for > an answer about multiplayer yellows, blah, blah, blah". Let me be crystal > clear to save you the bother of trying to find which messages our replies > relate to...a difficult task given the format of this forum: > > 1) When did HI figure out that the non-BTH section of NH, or the > "traditional" portion of the game as I call it, was all but unplayable in a > human-controlled, full race or season mode (because of the problems with the > "big 3" issues that are being worked on currently)? It sure seems like the > BTH section was fairly well polished and the rest of the title was given > short shrift. > > 1a) If the answer to 1) is after 1.1e was released, then we know your beta > testing and design procedures were severely flawed, since everyone out here > in end-user land could figure it out within 5 minutes of firing up the game. > If the answer to 1) is: you knew all along, but chose to fix other things > first, then a) you should tell people that (sooner) so they don't think you > are incompetent and unable to see the problems, and, b) it confirms that NH > was released months and months and months before being a consumer-ready > finished product. It could also mean, c) a fraction of the necessary > resources are being dedicated to finishing the second patch (finishing the > PC version of NH), because you are in the process of getting the console > version out the door. It could also mean d) I haven't a clue--why don't you > illuminate me since you are the insider who knows what's going on and I am > just an annoying forum poster. > > I won't even bother with 2)...just answer the above directly, or, as I said > the last time, point me to where you or Ed have already answered this and > I'll go and read it. I am only asking because I am not aware that it has > been answered yet by either of you. > > And lastly, let's not forget that this whole topic only came up again > because Ed just recently confirmed that the "big 3" issues are being worked > on and that a second patch will be released (albeit later than we would all > like). Until a couple of days ago, HI hadn't even confirmed that much > despite repeated (and annoying) requests for clarification! > > Dan, I think you are working so hard on all of this and perhaps there are > other work pressures or something that we don't know about at play here. > You are replying more and more frequently as though you are frustrated and > tired--such that you aren't even carefully reading what people are saying. > Lumping everyone into the I want multiplayer yellows whiner category is not > warranted nor appreciated. > > I only want what I paid for: a NASCAR racing game with great physics and > graphics. NASCAR racing, unfortunately for the programmers, often turns on > pitting, cautions, etc. that are difficult to program. It's not just, thank > god, driving around in circles. The physics and graphics are there...the > ability to participate in a fair race (forget about season) against the > computer controlled cars is not. > > Marc. > > > -- > **************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > to take effect. Reboot now? > **************************************************************************** > > >

Either that or they saw it and thought "we can just take our good ol' time now hehehe". =) "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:08:37 +0100, "Jan Verschueren" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >How about: "what if other companies stop producing racing sims?" > > > >Whining about how inadequate the other efforts are won't do much good > >either, for sure, but at least the developers know what they got right

and

Quoted text (23 lines)

> >what not. > > > >If there's no competition Papy might get lazy. > > I remember vaguely that N4 was postponed after the demo from Nascar > Heat was released. Could it be that Papy was surprised with Heat's > excellent physics and wanted more time to improve N4? > > Andre > > >Jan. > >=--- > >Kevin Anderson wrote... > >> Why are you even wasting your time with Hasbro, Heat and Ed. > >> Find something else to do until N4 comes out. > >> > >> -- > >> Kevin Anderson > >> [email hidden] > > > > > > >

The differences between Nascar 1 and Nascar 3 are actually quite prolific. I dont have the time to list them all, but I think it's obvious. "Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DtzN5.76539$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (17 lines)

> Papy might get lazy? > I think they are lazy. > Nascar 2, Nascar 1999, Nascar Legends, Nascar Trucks, Nascar 3.. > > The only thing Papy ever really did so far that was different and new is > GPL. Everything else is a rehash on a dated engine. > note GPL still uses the Nascar/2 Engine. Heavily modified. > > We'll see what N4 is like.. > > > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > How about: "what if other companies stop producing racing sims?" > > > > Whining about how inadequate the other efforts are won't do much good > > either, for sure, but at least the developers know what they got right

and

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > what not. > > > > If there's no competition Papy might get lazy. > > > > Jan. > > =--- > > Kevin Anderson wrote... > > > Why are you even wasting your time with Hasbro, Heat and Ed. > > > Find something else to do until N4 comes out. > > > > > > -- > > > Kevin Anderson > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > >

Don't know about the timing, but I do remember one very smug Randy Cassidy when it was revealed NH would only support control axis on one controller. So I would rather interpret it as "we can afford to take our time". <g> Jan. =--- Andre Warringa wrote...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> <snip> > I remember vaguely that N4 was postponed after the demo > from Nascar Heat was released. Could it be that Papy was > surprised with Heat's excellent physics and wanted more > time to improve N4? > > Andre

In article <DtzN5.76539$[email hidden]>, "Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Papy might get lazy? > I think they are lazy. > Nascar 2, Nascar 1999, Nascar Legends, Nascar Trucks, Nascar 3.. > > The only thing Papy ever really did so far that was different and newis > GPL. Everything else is a rehash on a dated engine. > note GPL still uses the Nascar/2 Engine. Heavily modified. > > We'll see what N4 is like.. > Take an old hammer - replace the head, then replace the handle: same hammer, heavily modified ;). Papy turns out NASCAR games because they've been the moneymakers - GPL hasn't spawned a sequel yet because it didn't sell. With the continued loyal fan base for GPL, I'm hoping the suits at Sierra will see the value of another open wheel racer. Was it Dave Kaemmer(sp?) who was hinting about the possibility of a late-70's GPL2 in an interview? Papy and the West Bros. seem to be the only ones catering to high-end car sims. It'll be interesting to see if WSC comes out before Papy's next project. Kendt Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

How about: "what if other companies stop producing racing sims?" Whining about how inadequate the other efforts are won't do much good either, for sure, but at least the developers know what they got right and what not. If there's no competition Papy might get lazy. Jan. =--- Kevin Anderson wrote... > Why are you even wasting your time with Hasbro, Heat and Ed. > Find something else to do until N4 comes out. > > -- > Kevin Anderson > [email hidden]

On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:08:37 +0100, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>How about: "what if other companies stop producing racing sims?" > >Whining about how inadequate the other efforts are won't do much good >either, for sure, but at least the developers know what they got right and >what not. > >If there's no competition Papy might get lazy.

I remember vaguely that N4 was postponed after the demo from Nascar Heat was released. Could it be that Papy was surprised with Heat's excellent physics and wanted more time to improve N4? Andre

Quoted text (12 lines)

>Jan. >=--- >Kevin Anderson wrote... >> Why are you even wasting your time with Hasbro, Heat and Ed. >> Find something else to do until N4 comes out. >> >> -- >> Kevin Anderson >> [email hidden] > > >

Papy might get lazy? I think they are lazy. Nascar 2, Nascar 1999, Nascar Legends, Nascar Trucks, Nascar 3.. The only thing Papy ever really did so far that was different and new is GPL. Everything else is a rehash on a dated engine. note GPL still uses the Nascar/2 Engine. Heavily modified. We'll see what N4 is like.. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (20 lines)

> How about: "what if other companies stop producing racing sims?" > > Whining about how inadequate the other efforts are won't do much good > either, for sure, but at least the developers know what they got right and > what not. > > If there's no competition Papy might get lazy. > > Jan. > =--- > Kevin Anderson wrote... > > Why are you even wasting your time with Hasbro, Heat and Ed. > > Find something else to do until N4 comes out. > > > > -- > > Kevin Anderson > > [email hidden] > > >

No doobt aboot it! Bruce Kennewell wrote:

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > "Moot"! > I just LOVE that word.......more opportunities should arise in our everyday > humdrum lives to use it. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > Rogers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:W6mN5.1685$[email hidden]... > > As soon as Nascar 4 is released NH will be a fading memory and this will > > all be moot. > > > >

Are you sure about that ? -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> Sam <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DtzN5.76539$[email hidden]... > note GPL still uses the Nascar/2 Engine. Heavily modified. > > We'll see what N4 is like.. > >

It DOES?? Wow! VERY heavily modified.....so much, in fact that it bears no resemblance to that in N2! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Sam <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DtzN5.76539$[email hidden]... > note GPL still uses the Nascar/2 Engine. Heavily modified. >

> I remember vaguely that N4 was postponed after the demo from Nascar > Heat was released. Could it be that Papy was surprised with Heat's > excellent physics and wanted more time to improve N4? > > Andre > N4 was delayed when N3 came out. (N3 was supoosed to be N4) Papyus felt that the average processor 2 years from then would be more up to the task. Charlie

"Moot"! I just LOVE that word.......more opportunities should arise in our everyday humdrum lives to use it. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Rogers <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:W6mN5.1685$[email hidden]... > As soon as Nascar 4 is released NH will be a fading memory and this will > all be moot. > >

Quite possibly. They may also have wanted to make *quite* sure that the AI didn't play boomps-a-daisy every time they pitted! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... @pandora.be> wrote: > > > I remember vaguely that N4 was postponed after the demo from Nascar > Heat was released. Could it be that Papy was surprised with Heat's > excellent physics and wanted more time to improve N4? >

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > It DOES?? > Wow! VERY heavily modified.....so much, in fact that it bears no > resemblance to that in N2! It does not. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > It does not bear no resemblance or it does not bear any resemblance,Frank? It's a retraction to your first sentence in the message blow, not the stuff after "Wow!". ;)

Quoted text (7 lines)

> ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > It DOES?? > > > Wow! VERY heavily modified.....so much, in fact that it bears no > > > resemblance to that in N2! > > > > It does not.

-- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

It does not bear no resemblance or it does not bear any resemblance, Frank? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1%0O5.52728$[email hidden]... > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > It DOES?? > > Wow! VERY heavily modified.....so much, in fact that it bears no > > resemblance to that in N2! > > It does not. >

>"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > "Message blow"?! Oh stop it Bruce. It's obvious to everybody it's simply a forgotten "e". -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

"Message blow"?! What's this...a new form of wireless transmission? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w1jO5.32365$[email hidden]... > > It's a retraction to your first sentence in the message blow, not the stuff > after "Wow!". ;) >

Aaah, yes. I should have known. The old "forgotten 'e' ploy" has been put to good use many times down the years but this is one time too many, Doctor Moriarty!! The jig's up! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:41AO5.471099$[email hidden]... > >"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > "Message blow"?! > > Oh stop it Bruce. > > It's obvious to everybody it's simply a forgotten "e". > >