Re: N4 Cars flipping is becoming a joke

Eldred's future motto for N4: "Drive it like your tires are filled with helium . . ." ;-) (Okay, yeah, I know all about inert gasses under pressure, so lighten up and chuckle already -- it's FUNNY, dammit!) <G> -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, extractor <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Ok I was looking so forward for getting some air in N4, but honestly > this is ridiculous. Having played 6-7 onlines races, I can't even > count the number of crashes leading to cars going end over end. It > becomes a joke on pace laps, or into turn 1. I can't even imagine on > online race at Tally with 43 cars? If many of you think having to > turn the wheel to the right going down the straight is a pain, cars > sliding on the roof all over the track is becoming just stupid. Where > as in the past you could bump draft, or even tap the guy beside you in > N3, doing that can send two into the wall. > > All I can hope is Papy makes it tough to get airborne and gives a > little on cars making contact, because this is ridiculous. > > Ex >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Ok I was looking so forward for getting some air in N4, but honestly this is ridiculous. Having played 6-7 onlines races, I can't even count the number of crashes leading to cars going end over end. It becomes a joke on pace laps, or into turn 1. I can't even imagine on online race at Tally with 43 cars? If many of you think having to turn the wheel to the right going down the straight is a pain, cars sliding on the roof all over the track is becoming just stupid. Where as in the past you could bump draft, or even tap the guy beside you in N3, doing that can send two into the wall. All I can hope is Papy makes it tough to get airborne and gives a little on cars making contact, because this is ridiculous. Ex

>"extractor" <[email hidden]> wrote > Where as in the past you could bump draft, or even tap the guy beside youin > N3, doing that can send two into the wall. You need to understand the multiple situations that happen in real-time over an unstable network called the *internet*. Papyrus has to balance it's collision detection with it's prediction code, which is NOT an easy task. You want less warp? It means that the possibility of having such crashing will increase. The only way to tame down the warping is to create a prediction code, which means that cars are extrapolated into their next position under normal physics (include some probability theory here, speed momentum, mass, etc..). In those situations, when two cars collide there is a possibility to have a bad extrapolation. Over the Internet, packets fly not instantly, and not all the time. There is a delay and a time between each of them. If a client's game engine see a extrapolated car inside his own, then the physics of the client's game engine will go bezerk, with almost impossible numbers. Add to this a NEW dimension (up and down) and things will go even more bezerk ;) Anybody who raced GPL understands that ;) I mean people requested a high-quality 6DOF physics engine, it's just normal that some consequences like the possibility of having amazingly high collision detection will happen over the Internet. Until people have enough bandwidth so that packets can be sent more frequently, such things will happen, unless Papyrus creates a very strict limits of possible physics alteration, which is a complicated task that the gurus at Papyrus really master. There is no current multiplayer system that is NEAR the quality level of what Papyrus has done. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Well I have not tried the game yet, but I do know that Stock cars and well most cars used for oval racing will require you to turn right when going straight. Things like Tire stagger and weight jacking cause that. Even Champ Cars and well IRL cars have the same problem. Every guy who has ever spent some time in an oval only chassis has mentioned this. As for the cars doing a lot of end over rolls and not being able to bump draft as much as before well I would say that you may be doing some moves on the PC that you would never ever try in the real car at 170 to 200 mph. I guess all the realism is a double edged sword. Dave extractor <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> Ok I was looking so forward for getting some air in N4, but honestly > this is ridiculous. Having played 6-7 onlines races, I can't even > count the number of crashes leading to cars going end over end. It > becomes a joke on pace laps, or into turn 1. I can't even imagine on > online race at Tally with 43 cars? If many of you think having to > turn the wheel to the right going down the straight is a pain, cars > sliding on the roof all over the track is becoming just stupid. Where > as in the past you could bump draft, or even tap the guy beside you in > N3, doing that can send two into the wall. > > All I can hope is Papy makes it tough to get airborne and gives a > little on cars making contact, because this is ridiculous. > > Ex >

In article <51%X5.59414$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote... > Frank, I have bad news for you. Your theory sounds great in > principle but I just happened to witness a 20 car race with N4 > at a Lan party. :-( The bandwidth was not an issue 100meg switched > setup very nice I might add. The warping, wrecking and frustration > was still present. Warping on a LAN? Yikes.

Speaking of a LAN. Where was this LAN party? "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <51%X5.59414$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] wrote... > > Frank, I have bad news for you. Your theory sounds great in > > principle but I just happened to witness a 20 car race with N4 > > at a Lan party. :-( The bandwidth was not an issue 100meg switched > > setup very nice I might add. The warping, wrecking and frustration > > was still present. > > Warping on a LAN? Yikes. > >

In article <90prkg$pmp$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes:

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>Eldred's future motto for N4: "Drive it like your tires are filled >with helium . . ." > >;-) > >(Okay, yeah, I know all about inert gasses under pressure, so lighten >up and chuckle already -- it's FUNNY, dammit!)

No it ain't....you've been racing too much, John... :) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +40.48 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ontario Canada Pete "Mike Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pr5Y5.14164$[email hidden]...

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> Speaking of a LAN. Where was this LAN party? > > "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <51%X5.59414$[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] wrote... > > > Frank, I have bad news for you. Your theory sounds great in > > > principle but I just happened to witness a 20 car race with N4 > > > at a Lan party. :-( The bandwidth was not an issue 100meg switched > > > setup very nice I might add. The warping, wrecking and frustration > > > was still present. > > > > Warping on a LAN? Yikes. > > > > > >

[email hidden] (Pete) wrote: > The warping, wrecking and frustration > was still present That's actually great news IMO because it means there *is* some kind of bug or untweaked design feature at work! Andrew McP... dusting off his optimist's hat and seeing if it still fits

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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> In article <90prkg$pmp$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes: > > >Eldred's future motto for N4: "Drive it like your tires are filled > >with helium . . ." > > > >;-) > > > >(Okay, yeah, I know all about inert gasses under pressure, so lighten > >up and chuckle already -- it's FUNNY, dammit!) > > No it ain't....you've been racing too much, John...

Racing too much -- is that even possible?! ;-) -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

hmm.. That may have been something I would have traveled to. Wish I knew about it.

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> Ontario Canada > > Pete > > "Mike Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Pr5Y5.14164$[email hidden]... > > Speaking of a LAN. Where was this LAN party?

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> > No it ain't....you've been racing too much, John... > > Racing too much -- is that even possible?! > > ;-) > > -- JB

If you ask my WIFE it sure is possible.... dave henrie

Not everything 'real' transposes well to a simulator. The left-pull is one of them. We need a trim tab like NH got in the 1.x patch. -Larry "David" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c060a2$97a4c3e0$fcd3fc3f@packardbell... > Well I have not tried the game yet, but I do know that Stock cars and well > most cars used for oval racing will require you to turn right when going > straight. Things like Tire stagger and weight jacking cause that. Even > Champ Cars and well IRL cars have the same problem. Every guy who hasever

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> spent some time in an oval only chassis has mentioned this. > > As for the cars doing a lot of end over rolls and not being able to bump > draft as much as before well I would say that you may be doing some moves > on the PC that you would never ever try in the real car at 170 to 200 mph. > > I guess all the realism is a double edged sword. > > Dave > > extractor <[email hidden]> wrote in article > <[email hidden]>... > > Ok I was looking so forward for getting some air in N4, but honestly > > this is ridiculous. Having played 6-7 onlines races, I can't even > > count the number of crashes leading to cars going end over end. It > > becomes a joke on pace laps, or into turn 1. I can't even imagine on > > online race at Tally with 43 cars? If many of you think having to > > turn the wheel to the right going down the straight is a pain, cars > > sliding on the roof all over the track is becoming just stupid. Where > > as in the past you could bump draft, or even tap the guy beside you in > > N3, doing that can send two into the wall. > > > > All I can hope is Papy makes it tough to get airborne and gives a > > little on cars making contact, because this is ridiculous. > > > > Ex > >

I don't mind the flipping, what I don't like is 1/2 the car disappearing into the ground as it makes contact, and then surfaces again on the up swing! BTW... In a race a Michigan tonight, a car (112) actually impaled itself into the fence on the front straight. It was actually hovering in the air, about 8 feet up, with 1/2 the car buried into the fence. Yes, folks. We have GPL engine here :) -Larry "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vx_X5.57931$i%[email hidden]... > >"Dave Casey" <[email hidden]> wrote > > He's not talking about unstable networks and warping and the like. > > "All I can hope is Papy makes it tough to get airborne and gives a littleon

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> cars making contact, because this is ridiculous." > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

>We need a trim tab like NH got in the 1.x patch. Ya know, I'm kinda getting tired of everyone that thinks this should be another Nascar Heat. This isn't NH and it's not going to be NH. If I wanted NH I'd go out and buy NH. Instead I want something better. N3 is better than NH. Hell, N2 was better than NH. And I'm sure when all is said and done, N4 will be better than NH. Hell, that shouldn't be too hard. So take your NH and shove right up your tailpipe and leave N4 to those of us who like our much better simulation in N3 & 4. Dave Casey Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 03:24:51 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >*drivel*, then >Yes, folks. We have GPL engine here :) Nascar 4 demo. It's a pre-alpha. That means it's not alpha yet. Which means it's not beta yet. Which means the goddam thing isn't worth reviewing yet, cause most of the code will be adjusted. It's discussed as if it were a final. It's pre-alpha. Why not wait and see what the programmers do with it. Then decide. Simple enough. You hammerheads.

>"Lee Harvey Oswald" <[email hidden]> wrote > Nascar 4 demo. > It's a pre-alpha. That's not possible. > That means it's not alpha yet. If it's not alpha it doesn't exist. It can't not exist. > It's pre-alpha. Redundant, this is an impossibility. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

What you are doing is comparing Greek numerology with GEEK numbers. Pre alpha is a state that does INDEED exist in software circles. The status of a paticular batch of code is graded. If the team has met certain pre-defined milestones, then it is considered alpha. Until that time, it is 'pre-alpha' You can argue the merits of using such a term, but that still doesn't prevent the software community from using the term, even incorrectly, with great abandon. (don't ya love my sentence run-ons...my English teachers must be heartbroken) dave henrie "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ckXY5.67425$i%[email hidden]...

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> >"Lee Harvey Oswald" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Nascar 4 demo. > > It's a pre-alpha. > > That's not possible. > > > That means it's not alpha yet. > > If it's not alpha it doesn't exist. It can't not exist. > > > It's pre-alpha. > > Redundant, this is an impossibility. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:56:46 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > What you are doing is comparing Greek numerology with GEEK numbers. >Pre alpha is a state that does INDEED exist in software circles. The status >of >a paticular batch of code is graded. If the team has met certain >pre-defined milestones, then it is considered alpha. Let's not forget being "pre-approved" for a credit card. Folks send in the applications and are astonished when they are rejected! "But I was pre-approved!", they howl. That's right. You weren't approved yet. ~daxe

>"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote > What you are doing is comparing Greek numerology with GEEK numbers. LMAO! ;-DDD I was just joking. It's still a paradox ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.